ebay dispute case advice....

[brannsiu]

Hi , I often buy online but it's the first time ever I start a dispute case on Paypal. The seller is very very irresponsible, arrogant, and attitude changes drastically after payments. not replying to inquiries, extremely late in delivery without any message of notification. I still do not get the products now, after 12 weeks.

Now only after I 've started the dispute case on Paypal he approaches me and gives me 100 excuses. He promised to ship me the products within the next few days and I am clear that if I don't get it I can escalate to a claim. However, now I am worried that if I get it a few days later but it's something crappy because he just rush to make out something for deadline of shipment, what could I do in that case to protect my buyer's right? It's something approx. 2000 usd that i can't just let him rob my money. What can I do the best to ensure that I will get a correct product or refund?? Something I am worried is that it's likely to be custom-made products, (because there is no stock). I am worried that the protection is not covered.

 

[Barty1884]

A $2,000 transaction, and you're already at 12 weeks???

I'd start a dispute with eBay (in addition to PayPal) to highlight the fact they haven't fulfilled their commitment.
The seller still has the opportunity to "make things right" and provide the goods and be paid, but at least eBay will be aware of the situation.

Luckily, PayPal won't release funds until you've received the product... and I believe there's an X day grace to ensure no issues etc.

 

[SoggyTissue]

you have gone to paypal with this dispute? once a dispute is raised with them, they normally hold/lock the money in the sellers account to await the outcome (thats if the money is still present in the sellers account).

this could be a reason for the hurried replies ... he now has no access to the 2000usd you paid him ... dont budge until you get your stuff else he/she may empty the account and paypal wont be able to recover anything. ask paypal themselves about this info i just supplied.

make sure you do NOT drop the paypal case, so he/she does not have the oportunity to empty their paypal account.

 

[USAFRet]

After 12 weeks, and all that hassle, excuses, and attitude?
Cancel, recover your money from paypal, and buy something else.

 

[brannsiu]

A $2,000 transaction, and you're already at 12 weeks???

I'd start a dispute with eBay (in addition to PayPal) to highlight the fact they haven't fulfilled their commitment.
The seller still has the opportunity to "make things right" and provide the goods and be paid, but at least eBay will be aware of the situation.

Luckily, PayPal won't release funds until you've received the product... and I believe there's an X day grace to ensure no issues etc.

Yes, since he does not reply to any inquiries in the recent 10 weeks. I started a case

I think they will ship out the products to me before the deadline of rising up to dispute, because they have shops and there is not much negative reputation. I know they are doing real business. I am not so worried that I will not get the products. However, the products are very much custom designed. I am quite worried that they are just rushing for the deadline to give me something bad.

I don't know what I can do further if I receive something that is crappy. I am not so worried that I do not receive the products

 

[brannsiu]

sorry, it's not ebay. It's a Paypal case, I only pay through Paypal, but the products are not sold through Ebay, any difference in that case/?

 

[USAFRet]

sorry, it's not ebay. It's a Paypal case, I only pay through Paypal, but the products are not sold through Ebay, any difference in that case/?

So you did NOT go through the ebay interface to buy this?

How did you and the seller come into contact?

 

[brannsiu]

sorry, it's not ebay. It's a Paypal case, I only pay through Paypal, but the products are not sold through Ebay, any difference in that case/?

So you did NOT go through the ebay interface to buy this?

How did you and the seller come into contact?

through google search , got to know his web store, and paid through Paypal with option of paying for goods and services.

 

[USAFRet]

sorry, it's not ebay. It's a Paypal case, I only pay through Paypal, but the products are not sold through Ebay, any difference in that case/?

So you did NOT go through the ebay interface to buy this?

How did you and the seller come into contact?

through google search , got to know his web store, and paid through Paypal with option of paying for goods and services.

So ebay, and the title of this thread, has nothing to do with it?

$2,000 and 3 months of attitude and no item? Not a chance.
Unless this is literally a one of a kind item, cancel the order, get your money back from PayPal, and look elsewhere.

If it is just a 'custom PC'? It's just a PC....get the same thing elsewhere.

 

[brannsiu]

I am now thinking what I should do for my next move. The seller has promised to ship me the products within the next few days but I have a faith that they will probably send me crappy products because of their attitude and the nature of the products - custom made. I don't know if I should refuse the package on delivery or if I should check the items before signature. However, there are sayings on the web that I can open the package unless I sign.

If I refuse a package and request for refund, is full refund minus shipping cost the worst scenario I would get??

Or if I should just sign to open the package, take the risk ,place the bet in hope of not getting something crappy? What I should do at the end of the day if it "LOOKS" as exactly what's described, but it does not function, it does not work, it 's just fraud??

 

[brannsiu]

sorry, it's not ebay. It's a Paypal case, I only pay through Paypal, but the products are not sold through Ebay, any difference in that case/?

So you did NOT go through the ebay interface to buy this?

How did you and the seller come into contact?

through google search , got to know his web store, and paid through Paypal with option of paying for goods and services.

So ebay, and the title of this thread, has nothing to do with it?

$2,000 and 3 months of attitude and no item? Not a chance.
Unless this is literally a one of a kind item, cancel the order, get your money back from PayPal, and look elsewhere.

If it is just a 'custom PC'? It's just a PC....get the same thing elsewhere.

Not a chance? The fact is that it is now happening to me. The fact is yes, it's unlikely somebody spends $2000 ,waiting for months without a product or even a reply but it's actually what is happening to me now. There are many good people in the world but I just happen to ran into a nasty guy

 

[USAFRet]

It is MUCH easier to cancel and get a refund before it ships, rather than after.

I know what I would do.
(What I would have done 2 months ago)

 

[brannsiu]

It is MUCH easier to cancel and get a refund before it ships, rather than after.

I know what I would do.
(What I would have done 2 months ago)

I have many personal reasons behind that I didn't cancel the order two months ago and I think no one is interested if I explain here now

Today I have consulted at the local post office. The officer said to me that I can only open the package after I sign. I asked him what if the box inside is empty or a piece of useless wood or something that is not purchased, they had no opinion.

So now, the package will probably arrive in a couple of days later. what should I do?
Should I sign it or not? If I reject the delivery, will Paypal stand on my side??

I never thought about all these mess, because I couldn't believe I ran into such a horrible people after paying $2000

 

[SoggyTissue]

what you need to do is take pictures .... take a picture of the postoffice worker handing you the goods (and get his name), take a picture of you signing for the goods AND put on the box before signing: package un-opened, contents UNKNOWN .. and have it facing you as you take the picture whilst signing (better to video).

open it there and then (best to keep videoing), so it is undisputable that the package was empty/broken/etc on recieving. and you have your post office worker as a whitness.

do not refuse to accept the package: apparently it will be sent back 'un-recorded' and so no paper trail to the sellers, who can then say 'we didnt get it' and you lose 2000.

there is a wiki on how to return stuff.


then you got some 'legal' backing if you need to take things further. a whitness, video evidence, the paper trail.

never accept any package if it is damaged in any way, that fault lies with the seller (at least it does in the UK) - you put on the package: damaged in transit, rts.

 

[brannsiu]

what you need to do is take pictures .... take a picture of the postoffice worker handing you the goods (and get his name), take a picture of you signing for the goods AND put on the box before signing: package un-opened, contents UNKNOWN .. and have it facing you as you take the picture whilst signing (better to video).

open it there and then (best to keep videoing), so it is undisputable that the package was empty/broken/etc on recieving. and you have your post office worker as a whitness.

do not refuse to accept the package: apparently it will be sent back 'un-recorded' and so no paper trail to the sellers, who can then say 'we didnt get it' and you lose 2000.

there is a wiki on how to return stuff.


then you got some 'legal' backing if you need to take things further. a whitness, video evidence, the paper trail.

never accept any package if it is damaged in any way, that fault lies with the seller (at least it does in the UK) - you put on the package: damaged in transit, rts.

never accept any package if it is damaged in any way, that fault lies with the seller (at least it does in the UK) - you put on the package: damaged in transit, rts.

<<< Hi. Do you mean that before I sign, if I find any damage on the box (before opening), and then I reject to sign for the delivery and write down "damage in transit" on the box right??

sorry but what is the difference between this and that you said I should never reject a package or suffer loss $2000 ??

do you mean that if I find any damage on the box then the post office will take this rejection differently?? and will show on the tracking that the package is damaged on transit??

 

[SoggyTissue]

i mean, you inspect the package before you sign anything ... you see any damage, you point it out to the post office worker and say: this is damaged i wont accept damaged in transit goods, RTS. then you write on the package: damaged in transit, RTS. take a picture of it with the post office worker (so if it goes missing its his fault).

rejecting is not the same as stating : return to sender, package damaged. if the package is damaged and you rts, then it is returned the same way it was delivered: recorded. simply rejecting a package is classed as non-acceptance and is returned the cheapest way possible (not recorded).

 

[brannsiu]

i mean, you inspect the package before you sign anything ... you see any damage, you point it out to the post office worker and say: this is damaged i wont accept damaged in transit goods, RTS. then you write on the package: damaged in transit, RTS. take a picture of it with the post office worker (so if it goes missing its his fault).

rejecting is not the same as stating : return to sender, package damaged. if the package is damaged and you rts, then it is returned the same way it was delivered: recorded. simply rejecting a package is classed as non-acceptance and is returned the cheapest way possible (not recorded).

thank you , but what is " rts "

on top of that, will the tracking show differently and show that the package is "damaged and rejected" instead of only "rejected" ?

The problem is after rejecting the damaged package, I 'll still have to go through all the mess with Paypal's dispute. It's not the end of the story

What's shown on the tracking could be important evidence to help me win the dispute , against those dishonest and ridiculous sellers

 

[SoggyTissue]

RTS = Return To Sender

damaged - RTS isnt rejected, it means theres no faith in the goods inside being unbroken because the package has damage ... hence returning to the sender. - that implies it is the postal workers fault (or in the UK its the sellers fault for not packaging it correctly) and therefore it gets returned the same way it got sent.

reject means you dont want the package (for whatever reason) and so the postal company will seek to return it in the cheapest fashion possible to save themselves money.


USAfret was correct in saying that you should just recover the money via paypal BEFORE they dispatch the package, because now you have to go through taking lots of pictures and possibly video, to sumbit to paypal if the seller becomes difficult with you again.

 

[brannsiu]

RTS = Return To Sender

damaged - RTS isnt rejected, it means theres no faith in the goods inside being unbroken because the package has damage ... hence returning to the sender. - that implies it is the postal workers fault (or in the UK its the sellers fault for not packaging it correctly) and therefore it gets returned the same way it got sent.

reject means you dont want the package (for whatever reason) and so the postal company will seek to return it in the cheapest fashion possible to save themselves money.


USAfret was correct in saying that you should just recover the money via paypal BEFORE they dispatch the package, because now you have to go through taking lots of pictures and possibly video, to sumbit to paypal if the seller becomes difficult with you again.

I understand your point, but the real concern is --- can I just escalate to paypal and win back 100% of my money for sure BEFORE he ships out the package??

what if I escalate the case to PayPal for full refund because items are not received and he then forces to ship out something and provides tracking?

What if he says it's something measure-to-make or no-stock and it's not fair to him that during his manufacture of the products I request for cancellation of the orders??

 

[brannsiu]

On top of that, I am NOT buying through Ebay, but paying through Paypal. Am I still protected under the buyer protection policy??

 

[Barty1884]

Unless the shipping time was clearly stated to be 12+ weeks (I'm assuming you were expecting much less, so maybe the listing was "2 weeks"?) then you should be within your rights to cancel the order before it shipped.

When paying with paypal, did you pay for "goods and services"? Or were you persuaded to send as a "gift" to "friends and family"?

With PayPal, provided it's "goods", you should be protected by their buyers protection policy.

Not sure where eBay comes into it? If this was an eBay listing that you then went external with (removing eBay from the equation), then no - obviously. You don't have any protection from a site you didn't buy through, regardless of whether that's where you found the listing.


As for the "no-stock" argument, unless that was clearly communicated with you either:
1. Before you purchased (ie they made it clear you wouldn't receive for 12+ weeks)
OR
2. Potentially, if they sent you frequent status updates that you ignored

Then no, that argument isn't realistic.

 

[USAFRet]

What if he says it's something measure-to-make or no-stock and it's not fair to him that during his manufacture of the products I request for cancellation of the orders??

"not fair"
12 weeks is FAR more than 'fair'.

From your OP:
"The seller is very very irresponsible, arrogant, and attitude changes drastically after payments. not replying to inquiries, extremely late in delivery without any message of notification."

 

[brannsiu]

Unless the shipping time was clearly stated to be 12+ weeks (I'm assuming you were expecting much less, so maybe the listing was "2 weeks"?) then you should be within your rights to cancel the order before it shipped.

When paying with paypal, did you pay for "goods and services"? Or were you persuaded to send as a "gift" to "friends and family"?

With PayPal, provided it's "goods", you should be protected by their buyers protection policy.

Not sure where eBay comes into it? If this was an eBay listing that you then went external with (removing eBay from the equation), then no - obviously. You don't have any protection from a site you didn't buy through, regardless of whether that's where you found the listing.


As for the "no-stock" argument, unless that was clearly communicated with you either:
1. Before you purchased (ie they made it clear you wouldn't receive for 12+ weeks)
OR
2. Potentially, if they sent you frequent status updates that you ignored

Then no, that argument isn't realistic.

Hi. I am pretty sure that I chose "paying for goods or services" but NOT "friends or family". I was aware of that.

But I am also pretty sure that they have NO ebay listing. I was NOT buying through ebay. I was buying through their website and paying through PayPal for goods and services.

Am I still protected??

And obviously there is NO anything stating in the invoice that it will take 12 weeks to delivery. Will PayPal take into consideration that Payment after 12 weeks without any shipment or prior agreement is NOT a normal seller/company that should do and let me win the case?

The deadline of taking any further action is 10 days from now. I still have 10 days. The seller said the goods would arrive before 10th Oct 2017 but it's quite unlikely during the time frame now. Maybe they have shipped it out, but I don't get any notification of the tracking. Is it high time to initiate a further action of dispute?
How likely will I win the case ? I have to take this step very carefully because it's approx. $2000 (American dollars)

 

[brannsiu]

What if he says it's something measure-to-make or no-stock and it's not fair to him that during his manufacture of the products I request for cancellation of the orders??

"not fair"
12 weeks is FAR more than 'fair'.

From your OP:
"The seller is very very irresponsible, arrogant, and attitude changes drastically after payments. not replying to inquiries, extremely late in delivery without any message of notification."

Yes they are irresponisble, arrogant and not reporting or replying to enquries after payment. Attitude changes drastically after payment. Typical marketing guys.

Now I am just very worried and having many sleepless nights..... worrying about what I should/could do next

 

[ccampy]

Open the despute ASAP
Don't keep waiting around in the hope he may send it