EMERGENCY!!!!

bodhisatva

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hi ppl,
i really neeed help, coz my sys cannot sustain prolonged periods of working becoz of OVERHEATING!! and i am in the middle of exams...really need the pc!!!
this is wat happened:
i had opened my cabinet to clean out the dust...wen i noticed tht the fans were dusty as well.... so not only did i clean them, i put some mustard oil( cooking grade...mind ya) in each one of them....including the freakin processor fan! now, wen i closed the PC and ran the system..... i noticed tht my processor temp was abnormally hi( around 59celsius) and the fan speed was kinda low (around 2500RPM)....so i still didnt worry too much, coz i get tht kinda temp pretty often..(even though not wen idle, only during hi gfx games)....i thought tht i had scraped off the heat sink compound wen i was cleaning it and dissmissed it from my mind...... i started playing BREED, wen all of a sudden my sys hangs up with this really spooky texture on my screen.....
wen i reboot , i get a warning tht the proc was shutdown due to a thermal event....
tht got me really scared, so i chked the sytem temp in the BIOS,
system zone-1 : 33 cel
system zone-2 : 39 cel
processor zone: 86 cel
and i noticed tht the goddamned fan was going around 2500RPM
Normally, wen the proc temp touches 59 deg, my fan is around 5000rpm....
so me spooked, i wen and got the stock fan of my friend's prescott, tht seemed to work.....but still temp is ABNORMALLY high ( idle 60), and the fan didnt seem to go higher the 2800 rpm. i dunno whether the fault the fault of my proc fan or watever...... pl help me out here....... PL!!

my sys specs:
p4 2.8 HT 800FSB (using the stock fan and a 300w intex power supply)
intel orig 865GBF mobo
256MB ram @400mhz
80GB hDD
geforce fx 5700VE (oc'ed to 350Mhz/ 550Mhz)
i got 2 extra fans in my cabinet
one of them i setup today( i took it from the PSU of an old PC)...its a 12vDC brushless fan
other one is near my gfx card!!

pl plz help out coz i gotta use the comp coz my exams are going on!!
 

tweebel

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If you don't mind I am not going to reply using chat language..
-You might have displaced the heatsink when cleaning
-Your power supply seems a little weak for your system
-Spooky textures usually are a graphics card memory item
-You could look into the BIOS at the automatic fan control. If it's on, disable it.
-When you switched heatsinks, did you clean of the old thermal paste and replace it with fresh paste?
 

bodhisatva

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wat exactly does "displaced your heat sink" mean?Each time i replaced the heatsink as it was!! i am using the stock heatsink given with the processor.
No, i did not replace the heatsink thermal compound. Is there some alternative, because the hardware store is around 1 1/2 hrs away(one way)
IS the PSU too weak? i have an extra 145W PIII PSU, shud i connect some of my devices to tht? wat is the problem with the fans, coz my mobo is relatively new! i guess the artifacts were becoz of the high temp inside the cabinet!
are there any other alternatives apart from replacing the thermal compound and increasing the power supply( wen i DC'd a fan, still the other kept rotating at the same speed,so are you sure it is the power supply?)
Pl inform if any other alternatives
 

tweebel

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Sometimes it is possible to shift the heatsink from it's place. Although this might only be a small displacement, it could result in a increase in temperature. Make sure the center of the heatsink is over the center op the CPU.
Whenever you switch heatsinks you should always clean off all old thermal past. I don't know of any other way. Without a fresh layer of thermal paste good contact between heatsink and CPU can't be guaranteed.
I don't think you have a problem with your fans, I think the BIOS makes them run slower without speeding them up again when needed. You should take a look at these settings in the BIOS.
I wouldn't advice to use 2 PSU's in one system. If your system works alright with your current PSU, don't het a new one.

In a couple of hours the USA and Canada guys are here, they might know more.
 

bodhisatva

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well , i disabled the auto fan control in the BIOS, so now the fan is at 3800RPM,approx!! i dont have ne compound with me! shud i just remove the old paste totally and leave it like tht till i get the new compound (which is after a few days)?I dont think there shud be any prob regarding the heatsink displacement since i chked it a couple of times!MY avg CPU temp is 66 deg cel now!(will prolonged running at this temp damage my CPU?)
as for PSU, i wudnt know if it is working perfectly since i installed the 2nd fan during my "screw-up"(pah'don my language)!!
any more suggestions?
 

tweebel

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I think it's best to not remove the paste till you can get new compound on.
66 deg shouldn't harm your CPU (but some 10 degrees cooler would be better) but check the full load temps. If the load temps are really high, try to avoid load. You can also decide to run with the sidepanels off for optimal stability. Lowering your room temperature will also aid.
Anyway, try replacing the old compound asap!
 

Cybercraig

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After a short period of time most thermal compounds set up a little. When they do it is too late to re-use them. If you were to swap heatsinks the next day you might get away with it. Cooking oil? What were you thinking? Maybe add a Prescott and turn your PC into a short-order grill? :lol:

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Flinx

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i think one typically uses very very thin machine oil like for a sewing machine and then only like 1/2 drop and it's a better idea still to replace the fan if the bearings are getting chewed.

The loving are the daring!
 

bodhisatva

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the mustard oil i used had very low viscosity!! how will i know wen the bearings are getting chewed? also, is replacing the compound the true solution to my prob?? i wud have to do nutthing else? MY emergency shutdown temp is around 87deg cel, but intel active monitor warns me at 68deg!
the heatsink compound on my proc is like ...."dry toothpaste"??(closest resemblence)
is there any way i can increase my fan speed to around 4k rpm and keep it constant( i dont have any settings in the bios like tht)? coz its a varible speed fan, and i hav seen it in speeds in excess of 5k!
thanx all!!

WANNA POACHED EGG? MY PROCESSOR IS HOT ENUF!! ;-)
 

pat

Expert
Reusing dried thermal paste is e very baaaaaad idea.. remove the ols thermal compound and use a small amount of mechanic grease (not white grease, but the black,green,red,... for bearing or suspension parts)...it will do the same thing as thermal paste and easyer to find. It can sustain heat well and fill gaps between the cpu and heat sink. You can use that and if your temps goes back to acceptable or normal, you can leave it there. If you feel it is still too high (depend of the grease quality here.), but your system stable, then get some thermal paste when you'll have time and, after cleaning BOTH, the CPU and the HS, apply the thermal paste and restart the system.

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
 

bodhisatva

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is there any way i can increase the fan speed to a constant user defined setting?(using software compatible with my board or watever)
Black grease? as in the type used in auto parts? Will tht substitute the compound for 3-4days?
I got tht kinda grease!
any tech specs for the grease? how thick shud it be?
 

pauldh

Illustrious
First, why not underclock that thing to a 533 bus or even 400 bus, which will make the cpu run at a lower MHz, allowing the cpu voltage to be dropped and heat to be way less. This will get you through your exams. I would think even an Intel brand mobo will allow the FSB change at least. Maybe not voltages though. Currently you are running 14*200 = 2.8GHz. Changing it to 14*133 = 1.86GHz, will definately generate less heat. And if you can lower the cpu voltage also, even less heat.

Then Order yourself some good thermal compound like Artic Silver 5. Get some 94% Isopropel Alcohol also. And print out the instructions from Artic Silver's website so you are ready when it comes. You should always clean off the cpu and heatsink when you pull the heatsink off, and appropriately replace the thermal compound with new compound.


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pat

Expert
You should use a very thin layer. once the parts cleans, put only a small amount on your finger ans spread it THIN on the cpu. the grease is used to fill the small imperfection that cause gap between cpu and HSF, so no need fot 1/4 inch thick. You should still be able to see thru the grease once applied. about the thickness of a normal paper sheet should do. Try to get hi quality heat resistant grease, not the light duty one because it might not hold on heat well. Antisize compound should work too, and come in copper and aluminum flavor. More expensive thou...

Once everything put in place, start your system as usual. you may notice a small grease smell for a while, but dont worry. As for the fan, if it was working ok before, I dont see the need to increase it. I dont know if it is the same for your cpu, but I think that prescott CPU has a temp mesure between the cpu and the HS,. What happened with your system, is, since the heat wouldnt go to the HS due to improper contact caused by the old past, the HS was colder than it has to be and tell the fan control that it can slow down... I read that in Tomhardware's amd vs intel long term test.


-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
 

bodhisatva

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wat is antisize compound? i dont have a prescott, its a 2.8HT! Can i reduce the clock speeds? i dont think so, coz my mobo is original 865gbf.....no option like tht in the bios!
I tried one more thing out.... i switched back to my old fan...... the temp increased rapidly from 73- 86 in less than a minute, so i shut down! now wen i switched to my friends FAN+HS combo which took less than 5 mins, the temp shows 46( huh??). Then the temp rapidly climbed to 65 in a span of 1 minute!! I am really puzzled! Wen i use the old HS+fan my temp starts at 74, and wen i use my frn's HS+fan it starts at 46 and then rapidly climbs to 66...both fans are going around at approx the same rpm( mine is 300rpm slower)
Wat exactly is going on>??
i have ordered the arctic silver, but it might take a while.... meanwhile can ya tell me exactly wat the grease ur telling me to put, is called in "techie language" so tht i can go to a hardware shop nearby and buy tht!
 

pat

Expert
Antiseize compound is used to prevent steel parts from seizing together by corrosion. For the grease, simply ask to the hardware dealer foor good mechanical grease. bring your cpu with you..he will probably let you take a drop from the tube, so you wont have to buy the whole tube.

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
 

pauldh

Illustrious
Wow, no fsb adjustments at all on that Intel board? Auto detect only huh. That is real lame that won't even allow user to select between 400/533/800 bus. (100,133,200)

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bodhisatva

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yeah i know!! lame is an understatement!! didnt do much research before buying it!!! :((

I tried one thing out.... i switched back to my old fan...... the temp increased rapidly from 73- 86 in less than a minute, so i shut down! now wen i switched to my friends FAN+HS combo which took less than 5 mins, the temp shows 46( huh??). Then the temp rapidly climbed to 65 in a span of 1 minute!! I am really puzzled! Wen i use the old HS+fan my temp starts at 74, and wen i use my frn's HS+fan it starts at 46 and then rapidly climbs to 66...both fans are going around at approx the same rpm( mine is 300rpm slower)
wat is happeneing?
why is my fan behaving this way?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by bodhisatva on 01/17/05 01:49 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

petrolhead2003

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If you value your processor,get a new heatsink/fan.
If it needs lube,it's on it's way out,get rid of it or get a replacement fan.

Anti-sieze compound is conductive(ie if it gets on your chip pins,it'll short them out and probably kill it),it contains lots of copper and should conduct heat superbly though.

A new htf will be pretty cheap and they usually come with thermal compound already fitted.
 

bodhisatva

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so i DID screw my orgininal fan??? do i have to replace it?its just about 5 months old!! wont changing the thermal paste help?
 

pat

Expert
No, your fan is not screwed. NO, you dont have to replace it.

YES! Just clean your HSF and put some mechanical grease on and go back to work... You have some exam to go thru!

Put a pot with water on the oven. turn it on. do the water get hot? yes. put your hand between the oven and the pot. . Do the water get hot? no, does that mean that the oven is not hot? I guess not, ask your hand! Do the cpu"s surface perfectly flat? no. Do the heatsinf surface perfectly flat? no. What is the purpose of thermal paste? fill the mini mini mini gap between the cpu and hsf that would otherwise be filled with air. Do air conduct heat well? no does that could affect cpu temp? you bet. is that what happen when I use dried thermal past instead of putting new one? Yes, it create a lot of air pocket that prevent the heat to go from the cpu to the HSF. And why grease is good? because it fill those gap and act as a conductor for the heat to go to the HS. Does that mean that just putting a thin layer of grease and put my hsf back would cure the problem? It should.

So, stop asking such question, I did that for you, run at the hardware store, fix you computer and come back only...ONLY with the result. NO MORE QUESTION! OK!



-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
 

pat

Expert
"so i DID screw my orgininal fan???"


Oh, by the way, if your car suddently stop running, does that mean that you screwed the engine? No, maybe you just run out of gas.

Based of your deduction, maybe the heat sensor is defective on your mobo , reporting false reading, and having trouble to control the fan? Then why not just get another mobo to check!!!

trying grease is the cheaper and faster solution in your case and I seriously dont believe that you did not try that first. especially when a thread is titled EMERGENCY!!!!

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
 

bodhisatva

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k..k.. i guess i riled you up PAT....lol
will post the results ASAP!k?
till then no stupid questions from me...k?(plz dont reply to this one)
will post the results!
AND THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH.....
 

bodhisatva

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I changed the thermal paste strictly according to instructions, and put my ol hs+f onto the processor.
Results: idle temp 57deg cel
Then I wanted to see wat difference my friends fans showed!
Put tht on the processor(careful not to disturb the new compound!)
result: idle temp 52 deg cel
What seems to be the problem? i cleaned the heatsink too! i also cleaned the area around the processor!
Why am i getting such high temps?
After 30 mins of 3d gaming, my processor temp is touching 68 deg cel. Wat is wrong ?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by bodhisatva on 01/19/05 01:07 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

poindexter

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Yes there are alternatives to "PC" thermal compound and it can be had at any auto parts store. An Engine Coolant Temperature sensor for virtually any car that has fuel injection has a nice glob inside. Getting it out is not that difficult, just break off the plastic connector. I have personally compared several variations used [they make these where I work] and have found them equal to or better than the junk I got with my cpu. An ECT [or CTS/coolant temp sensor, an older term] isn't cheap. I don't know what "mustard oil" is but to lube an older fan that has a bushing you'd want to use something very light or synthetic-thick oil can make it difficult if not impossible for the fan to spin at top speed-these tiny things don't have much torque to begin with.
 

tweebel

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68 is high, but not impossible for a P4 with HT. I didn't bother to re read all posts but I believe I told you to take off the side panel and check your temps. If they still are high you might have a cpu or sensor problem, if they improve it's a ventilation issue.
 

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