Ex-Microsoft Employee Launches 'Fixing Windows 8' Initiative

[cocogorilla]

On a positive note, people will use window 8 because the promise of developing an app and being able to target it for every formfactor from smart phone to dual lcd desktop is too compelling. From a developer perspective, this OS is going to be hot.

 

[groberts116]

One more point. Because Win 8 consumer preview is a beta, create a separate partition to download the consumer preview to. Also, the last sentence of my last comments should read: I believe you will find it fluid and easy to manage the more you use it.

 

[loomis86]

[citation][nom]cryio[/nom]You guys are really stuborn. While I get that some of you find the changes weird for for the worse....it's not like that. Things change. And this time...I must admit it isn't for better, but neither for worse. If that kids dad used Windows, he should have known that he should try some keyboard commands. Alb-Tab? Just pressing the Windows Key?. I find Metro really fun. I doesn't fit so well in the overall picture, but it does work. And it's also very fast [andstylish I might add]. For laptop users, I only have to say that the Consumer Preview reduced my battery life with 1 hour, compared to Windows 7.[/citation]


not to mention...

ctrl+esc
alt+f
ctrl+tab

if these old school keystrokes still work on win8, that's good enough for me. I won't need a "fix" for the metro UI.

 

[Marcus52]

I was very leery of the Metro interface, and after reading mixed reviews I decided the best thing to do was try it with an open mind.

I still say it's ugly, but not as bad as I thought. It feels clunky; since I don't have a smart phone or tablet or touch screen, I don't need it, so I just get it out of my way. I live in desktop mode as much as I can. Bottom line? It could be better, I don't like it as a desktop computer guy, but it's not near as bad as some people make out. I think with a little more knowledge and adjustment to it, it would feel less clunky.

(That being said, it shouldn't be worse in any way, at all. It should be better for EVERYONE.)

What I don't like:

1) It decided my other computer on my home network was a "media device" and started turning it on via remote desktop without my say so, or knowledge that it could even do that! That's a SEROUS, BAD thing in my book, nothing says BIG BROTHER more than my devices being turned on without my permission!

2) I clicked an email link in Firefox in my Yahoo email account to send someone an email, and it opened up my Hotmail account and tried to make me use that for my Yahoo business! I NEVER connected the Yahoo account to anything on my computer, only the Hotmail account. BAD, Microsoft, BAD!

3) In Vista and Win 7 (and every version of Windows before), there are settings reached via "Advanced appearance settings" (Personalization>Window Color>Advanced appearance settings. . .). This appears to be gone entirely from Win 8. I want MORE from an updated OS, not less!

(This brings up a long time irritation in Windows: the "make fonts smaller or larger" thing. Hey, where's the smaller? Default is "100%", and you can't set your fonts less than 100% (unless, of course, you know how to in "Advanced appearance and settings"), so there is no possibility of making them smaller. Clue: screens are much larger these days, and many have horrendously large pixel pitches - don't you think someone might want to tone down their font size a bit? (I actually run a 2560x1440 screen with a .233mm pixel pitch, the smallest there currently is on an LCD screen, and I still make my icons as small as I can and adjust my fonts so the labels on them are smaller via "Advanced appearance settings".)

4) Things opened up by Metro cover the entire screen, and there's nothing you can do about it. My small screen on my second computer is 21" and on this computer it's 27", I don't need 27" of screen for anything except games! I feel like I'm getting slammed in the face with a giant window, most of which has nothing on it.

5) Metro decides how to put apps in columns, you don't. You can move them around, but you can't change the column structure. You can't put apps in some parts of a group without other columns being filled first. The solid background color is about as well done as a solid color background can be, but you are out of luck if you want anything different. Hate the app colors? Tough.

There are good things about Win 8, like the way storage is being handled. Very nice. I'm still leaning towards Win 8 over Win 7 when I upgrade my Vista machine, but really, there shouldn't be any question, Win 8 should be a no-brainer choice between it and a previous version of Windows.

 

[Guest]

I installed the developers preview on my touch screen laptop several months ago. After just a few days, I reformatted it and sold all my stock in Microsoft. It might work ok for tablets, but it's horrible for traditional laptops and desktops.

 

[mrmike_49]

I've already decided that I'll be skipping Win8

 

[CaedenV]

I really don't understand all the hate. The start menu was terrible, and every version of Windows after win95 started taking steps to minimize it's use to the point of Win7 just having a search bar and never expecting anyone to ever use 'all programs' ever again. You can still hit the win key and start typing to find your programs, Control Panel and power are conveniently in the charms menu, and while I agree that the metro interface is't great, it does in fact work just fine, and it largely stays out of the way. Asside from the start screen there have been some huge improvements and detail added to power user features, everything runs faster than win7, it takes less HDD space than win7, it uses ram more effectively than win7 (it uses more in general, but still runs fast on 1GB), and if you happen to have a touch screen then it works well also (unlike Win7 and previous versions where touch was more of an afterthought).

Sure, some people will be confused. But people were confused with the start orb instead of the start button. People were confused why you had to hit 'start' in order to shut down. People get confused about the difference between single click, double click, right click, and center click. People get confused about using the scroll bar on the mouse instead of scrolling down a page with buttons. Yes, Win8 is very different, but watching a simple advertisement video explains most of the features that people can't seem to figure out.

 

[tpi2007]

I have to admit: the kernel team did a good job with Windows 8, it's internals work well, they have made progress with the scheduler, file copy operations, boot and shutdown, but their design team is making it all go unnoticed, and for good reason. An OS is supposed to not get in the way. No OS is perfect in that regard, but Windows 8 manages to break the experience.

I've been using the Developer Preview since it came out, wrote a review on Overclock.net (same username) pointing out all the conceptual flaws that Metro on the desktop has, and now that I have installed the Consumer Preview, I'm even more appalled that they actually managed to make it worse.

This might work very well on a tablet, a smartphone and even a Media Center PC with your remote (ironically they didn't integrate the Media Center software with Metro), but this is a step backwards for desktops and laptops that don't have a touchscreen. This actually makes you learn more keyboard shortcuts. Granted that keyboard shortcuts are useful, but we already know quite a few like copy / paste / cut / undo / redo / print / bold / italic / underline, so making users learn a bunch more just to "live" with Metro is a step backwards in the movement towards using visual clues that using the mouse has brought us over the years, of which Windows 7 is the best example.

While trying to make it a visual experience on a touchscreen, Microsoft actually managed to screw up the experience on desktops and laptops.

This looks like an Alpha experiment, with Metro and an updated Windows 7.5 badly glued together. It's obvious from the two distinct interfaces alone. They made the windows' boxes corners square to try to make it more homogenous, but that is not enough. Metro is a basic color affair, with a fixed background (ok, you get to chose from a set of basic colors, but that's it), huge tiles, fullscreen madness and too much white (white saves battery power on tablets because pixels are not working to filter the backlight, another indication that this is not geared to make it easy on the eyes, but easy on the battery of small devices). The desktop is transparency based with highly polished icons and resizeable windows. The first is obviously geared towards saving battery power on tablets and smartphones to edge out the competition, and the desktop is solely what desktop and laptop users should be using.

I don't know what Microsoft did with the Metro API, but if they don't include a function to make the traditional close / maximize - restore / minimize buttons appear when an app is working on the desktop / laptop version of Windows, along with making it a seamless experience - Metro apps working on the desktop (just like the gadgets do nowadays) and residing on the taskbar, just like any other program, instead of having its own taskbar on the left vertically while you're on the desktop (another clear sign of how badly glued together Metro and Windows for the desktop and laptop are), then this will be a colossal failure, and they will deserve it.

 

[CaedenV]

[citation][nom]marraco[/nom]The Hotmail/Windows Live ID is the worst stuff. It is like the attempt to integrate Internet Explorer on Windows: a monopolistic, Big Brother attempt. It should be illegal, and probably is.[/citation]
Reminds me of the other part I love about win8, I constantly switch between 4 computers all of the time (desktop, netbook, work laptop, and the family computer), now I get a consistant feel between my 3 personal machines because they sync with LiveID. If I make changes then it changes my account across all of my computers, plus I can keep 5GB of documents synced across all of my computers without having to set up a home server, or being limited to a particular location in order to sync and update the files (granted I do need internet for it to work properly). If I were to ever buy a Metro app (and shoot me if I were to ever spend money on things so simplistic, stupid, and useless), it would (assuming the license allowed for it) install it on my other machines the next time I were to log on.

And the best part: If you don't like LiveID, then do not use it! It is not required except to use the app store, but you can still download and install programs the good 'ol fashioned way by downloading it online, or loading off some sort of media the way we have done things for 20+ years.

 

[skyviper80]

That video was me when I first launched Windows 8, thankfully I was running it inside VM and had a Tom's video guide to navigate Windows 8 on my other screen to get me back to the home screen.

 

[jackbling]

[citation][nom]tmk221[/nom]I agree with him. Most annoying thing for me was that you need MS account in order to run win8. I don't know how common it it in USA and western Europe but here in Poland NO ONE uses Windows Live ID or hotmail... Also I couldn't close metro apps so I gave up after 30 min or so of using win8 preview edition.I think that most ppl would prefer using win7 with some kind of application that looks like Metro UI over win8[/citation]

xbox account.

(the remaining is not directed at tmk) The only real step they need to take, is make it easy to disable the metro interface; the existing windows interface has changed veeery little since 95, and people still struggle with the most basic of actions (I work helpdesk, and people still struggle with the start button/windows pearl), perhaps some will welcome the new interface.

 

[belardo]

Mouse wheel scroll is a non-issue. It doesn't take long to figure out.

 

[ejb222]

Are you serious?! Its not that hard to figure out. How is it that you can give a toddler a puzzle and they can figure it out...but a grown man just throws his hands in the air without an honest effort.
Metro is not that hard people. I mean seriously...people are whining that there is no little X on the top of the screen to close an app or there is no button that says Start...what do I do? OH NO the scroll goes from left to right to better optimize my widescreen monitor, what were they thinking?!

You mean to say this generation that went from cassettes to cd's and then MP3s, VHS to DVDs to MP4s, rotary phones to smart phones, libraries to internet, 13mpg cars to hybrids, can't figure out Metro? I'm not buying it. I think it's just a bunch of whiners.

 

[ejb222]

[citation][nom]tiang[/nom]Microsoft better fixes all or else will lost all the senior users![/citation]

Can you imagine how many companies would be out of business if the based there product line on what seniors could and would use? I grew up having to teach my grand parents how use a VCR, DVD, Cell PHone, Computer etc.

 

[robochump]

Metro UI has to be optional. Too many PC users are simply too UNcomputer Savvy for anything radically different.

 

[ejb222]

Metro UI has to be optional. Too many PC users are simply too UNcomputer Savvy for anything radically different.

I share the same opinion. Anyone that is complaining truely has no clue. But yet they seem smart enough in their own mind to argue how no one should have upgraded from Windows XP

 

[ejb222]

That video was me when I first launched Windows 8, thankfully I was running it inside VM and had a Tom's video guide to navigate Windows 8 on my other screen to get me back to the home screen.

You mean to say that you could figure out how to run Win8 on a Virtual Machine, but you couldn't figure out how to close an app or use the Start Menu? BS!
I bet you didn't even give Win8 the same amount of time it took you to figure out how to use the Virtual machine...but you didn't quit on that did you? Nope.

 

[ejb222]

Reminds me of the other part I love about win8, I constantly switch between 4 computers all of the time (desktop, netbook, work laptop, and the family computer), now I get a consistant feel between my 3 personal machines because they sync with LiveID. If I make changes then it changes my account across all of my computers, plus I can keep 5GB of documents synced across all of my computers without having to set up a home server, or being limited to a particular location in order to sync and update the files (granted I do need internet for it to work properly). If I were to ever buy a Metro app (and shoot me if I were to ever spend money on things so simplistic, stupid, and useless), it would (assuming the license allowed for it) install it on my other machines the next time I were to log on.

And the best part: If you don't like LiveID, then do not use it! It is not required except to use the app store, but you can still download and install programs the good 'ol fashioned way by downloading it online, or loading off some sort of media the way we have done things for 20+ years.

Great Points...but it's obvious that this forum is full of children who have nothing better to do than down vote anything they don't like. Before WIN8 was a concept, if you asked anyone about what you just explained...they'd be all over it. But since they can't figure out a Start Menu they act like MS is Hitler or something.

I hope MS sticks with it and doesn't pay attention to the haters...because the obviously don't even use a computer enough to be able to find their way around. And I hope that all the haters will actually back up their down votes with viable comments that might actually be productive. And posting "I hate it and uninstalled in the first 30 min I used it" is not a viable comment...it shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Guest]

This is too great! They need to understand that when people see this for the first time this is EXACTLY what they are going to think!!! The engineering behind windows 8 is solid perhaps more solid than windows 7. The new features are fantastic (storage spaces, WinRT, ReFS support etc...) but the UI is (insert profane word beginning with s here) I'm sorry (not really) but it is crap. It looks nice, but there new way to select files in metro apps sucks big time. It reminds me of OSX where documents and pictures...are now virtual places. That may be fine for some, but I like to know where my files are stored and what is using my valuable disk space. That is one of the main reasons I will not switch to MAC. I hate the convoluted way it stores files and the fact that there are no uninstall procedures to remove all files from a program. When you drag an application folder you don't delete everything that it installed, but to get back on track. Windows 8's behind the scenes feature enhancements are great but the metro UI is horridly incomplete feeling! The charms menu is also too hard to activate on the classic desktop UI the top right hand corner of the screen is a bad place to choose for that to pop-up. Put an actual start button somewhere on the classic desktop and in the Metro UI and I will stop complaining. They also need to add a power icon to the metro UI or a start button with access to power options directly. They really fdddd this one up and they need to fix it before Windows 8 goes gold if they don't want the whole world switching to OSx within the next 2 years!

 

[IAmVortigaunt]

Great Points...but it's obvious that this forum is full of children who have nothing better to do than down vote anything they don't like. Before WIN8 was a concept, if you asked anyone about what you just explained...they'd be all over it. But since they can't figure out a Start Menu they act like MS is Hitler or something.

I hope MS sticks with it and doesn't pay attention to the haters...because the obviously don't even use a computer enough to be able to find their way around. And I hope that all the haters will actually back up their down votes with viable comments that might actually be productive. And posting "I hate it and uninstalled in the first 30 min I used it" is not a viable comment...it shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

Nice. To those whining that you can't close metro apps, try clicking the top of the screen and dragging down. Simple. Personally, I think Win8 works pretty well with KB/Mouse. Scrolling to move horizontally feels natural, you can organize tiles into groups. Navigation is quick. What exactly is the problem hear? Not enough menu hierarchies guarding all your settings and apps? The desktop is there for you. You don't even have to use metro apps. As far as the Start button, do you really think that's more efficient than clicking on a tile on the Start screen? Give me a break.

 

[ejb222]

This is too great! They need to understand that when people see this for the first time this is EXACTLY what they are going to think!!! quotemsg]

Anyone using any OS for the first time will have the same complaints. There are people that use Windows all the time that still have a hard time with XP and 7.

 

[ejb222]

Win8 haters = Someone complaining they can't find where to put the postal stamp on an email...so they stop using email.

 

[Pherule]

""Who puts this out," the dad says after four minutes. His son says it's by Microsoft.

"They trying to drive me to Mac?""

Err... what? Is Mac the first thing old people think of as an alternative to Windows? It's as if Linux doesn't exist to them. I'd pick Linux 100x before touching Mac.

 

[husker]

[citation][nom]iamvortigaunt[/nom]Nice. To those whining that you can't close metro apps, try clicking the top of the screen and dragging down. Simple. Personally, I think Win8 works pretty well with KB/Mouse. Scrolling to move horizontally feels natural, you can organize tiles into groups. Navigation is quick. What exactly is the problem hear? Not enough menu hierarchies guarding all your settings and apps? The desktop is there for you. You don't even have to use metro apps. As far as the Start button, do you really think that's more efficient than clicking on a tile on the Start screen? Give me a break.[/citation]
[citation][nom]ejb222[/nom]Win8 haters = Someone complaining they can't find where to put the postal stamp on an email...so they stop using email.[/citation]
[citation][nom]ejb222[/nom]

This is too great! They need to understand that when people see this for the first time this is EXACTLY what they are going to think!!! quotemsg]Anyone using any OS for the first time will have the same complaints. There are people that use Windows all the time that still have a hard time with XP and 7.[/citation]
The "Windows" OS was given that name name because you could have open "windows" into different applications on the same screen simultaneously. Can any of you confirm that windows 8 will allow the very basic ability to have several application windows to be open simultaneously on a large monitor? Not just application switching, but using different areas of the screen for different applications. This is a very basic function of any previous windows OS. My work (and others I'm sure) requires this very basic use of a computer. Please don't tell me that it is up to me to adapt, because this would just be making excuses for an OS that doesn't perform the most fundamental task of a Windows OS.

 

[A Bad Day]

Why can't Microsoft include an optional Window 7's UI for Windows 8?