Exploring Below Ambient Water Cooling

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Apparently that Stacker can run 2 power supplies?

Where could the peltier assembly be located?
 


If the peltier assembly could fit inside the lower drive area, and have clear air flow out the front, it might actually work but I cannot tell from the pictures if that area is free and clear space to mount the peltier in it, and if the front would allow open airflow.

Cooler Master did make a cube that mounted in that type of section specifically for mounting 3 HDDs that could be located anywhere up the drive bay area, which left a full 5 1/2' width clear space up the entrie drive bay, if that's the situation with that case it might work?

I couldn't really tell from the pictures?

After more research I think that Stacker would actually work, possibly?

@earl45 What exactly are you proposing?
 

I'm proposing you pay for shipping and you can have it, how's that proposal?
I'll take pic's of it and post them.
 
You will have to paint it and the drive bay cover need replacing.
Here's the pic's.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb370/jeffd47/20120825_073100.jpg
I know it's cheesy. lol
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb370/jeffd47/20120825_073047.jpg
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb370/jeffd47/20120824_093311.jpg
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb370/jeffd47/20120825_073031.jpg
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb370/jeffd47/20120825_074856.jpg
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb370/jeffd47/20120825_074810.jpg
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb370/jeffd47/20120825_074823.jpg
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb370/jeffd47/20120825_074836.jpg
This is how I used it for years.
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb370/jeffd47/P1010004.jpg

If you want it PM me your address and I'll send it out to you.
It's been a pleasure following your outside the box way of WCing your system,
I feel the least I can do is offer this case to you, and say thanks for the good
read.
 


I have one HHD carriage, all the drive slides and just one front bezel.
 
Referencing something already mentioned these pictures below are of the insulation layer I have floating on the water in the cooler to keep the cold in the water since there is now such a large air cavity over the water, after dropping the water level to 4 gallons. The insulation layer is expanded foam inside of Ziplock freezer bags and it works very well retaining the cold in the water.

SInsulationFloats.png


Larger View


SFloatinZiplockFreezerBag.png


Larger View


S4gallonsofwater.png


Larger View

The pictures themselves should be self explanatory.

At present this leaves me with options still capable of running a large thermal mass if the Peltier fails, but seeing as how the Peltier has no moving parts it's life span should be indefinite, especially since it's only receiving a 12v operating voltage, spec'd to 15v.

However this is totally new territory running this Peltier, and I don't know how long it will last, but for now, it is performing very well and beyond expectations.

I have other plans rolling around in the old brain pan and these pictures are just bringing things up to present day operation.

Thanks to all interested and keeping up with the progress of this thread! Ry
 
i am just perplexed with the need for the insulation floating on the top of the water. like if the lid is on top of the cooler and is sealed then the insulation wouldnt help keep the water cool. it might help in the short run but i feel like the air would eventually cool to the water temp....

i must be missing something?
 


I agree, You must be missing something?






 


assuming?

I have not set out to lie to anyone here regarding all that I discover and share, if I tell you something is working, it's working!

Or I would not be doing it!

Trapped air is an insulator not a conductor, that's why trapped air was initially used in the beginning of cheap therma pane glass.

A layer of air was sandwiched between 2 layers of glass with moisture absorbing beads in the outer rim channeling, air did not turn out long term successful, because the moisture beads over time lost their moisture absorbing effectiveness, and water would form between the glass, so they substituted the air for argon gas.

Trapped air in your thermal compound between your heat sink and CPU or GPU is bad, it becomes an insulator instead of a conductor, in the same respect the air in the cooler could never become as cold as the water, as you say, simply because there is more heat outside the cooler than cold inside.

i feel like the air would eventually cool to the water temp....
Click to expand...

The air itself becomes an insulator between the water and the larger area of inside walls of the cooler itself, the more air space there is, the larger area the air is contacting, and the larger area is not as cold as the water layer is, so the air will never get to be the same temperature as the water.

The insulation layer floating on the water simply isolates the water from the insulating air, allowing the colder temperature of the water to remain in the water longer.

And it works!

Understand?

The large cooler was very effective when I was running 10 gallons of water, the thermal mass of the water was larger than the air space left inside the cooler, dropping the water level in such a large cooler reversed that effectiveness and brought problems to the table that had to be resolved to retain as much cooling efficiency as possible.

I could have simply gone to a smaller cooler, but I am testing out this peltier solution to see if it is long term viable, so the insulation layer allows me to mimic a smaller cooler.

There is no sense in me wasting money buying a smaller cooler if the entire thing is possible to be accomplished as a closed loop using a standard 2 bay reservoir, which I already have in my possession, with the peltier assembly taking the place of the radiators.
 
YeeeeeHaaaaa! :)

Got my power supply jumper connected, now I just punch the power on the computer and it auto starts the peltier power supply, and auto shuts down when the PC shuts down.

Peltier PC life just got big time simpler, no more concern for forgetting to shut down the peltier and freezing up the water block!
 


Yes the ice in the cooler has been completely eliminated by the use of the peltier so that goal of the peltier idea in the first place has been accomplished and is successful.

It's also nice having pretty much zero maintenance now!

Since no ice is being added daily the cooler remains closed and sealed!

No dust from the air gets into the cooler from repeatedly opening and closing the lid swapping out the jugs.

I haven't had to clean the filter once since stopping the addition of the ice, for that matter, under present circumstances I could probably just eliminate the filter altogether.

Even though this is a dual loop setup with the GPUs cooled by the RadBox and the CPU cooled by the peltier, it is a one button operation now and that is truly nice!

Additionally as far as below ambient cooling my CPU has not been above a water temperature of 18c, (5c below ambient, 8c below standard water cooling closed loop performance), for weeks, and that is also nice!
 
I guess most at this point would be 100% satisfied but I am not, of all the discoveries this has led to, it has also opened major possibility questions for myself, so future cooling experimentation using this type of cooling is definitely on the idea table.

I eventually want to turn this into a single loop cooling solution able to cool the CPU and GPUs on the same loop, scaled down as small as I can get it, holding a constant temperature level during the heaviest gaming, that will require the proper switching power supply, a better cold transfer water block, thermostat control, etc.

It's kinda like once you cross the threshold of the unknown becoming known, then you're truly opened up to further possibilities, and now that I know what a peltier can do with it's capabilities, I can continue with that gained knowledge.

But as with all of us, this takes money, and as I'm presently building a screened porch on our home, money is just not falling from the ceiling right now, so it's a future goal, so for now this will do. Ry

Edit:

The peltier is essentially a miniature refrigerator with no moving parts to break down, the key is discovering how to use what it can do to your advantage, when the CPU cooling community first put the peltier into operation it was directly on the CPU usually water cooling the hot side, which brought unpleasant side effects requiring motherboard insulation to keep from shorting out components from the forming ice around and on the backside of the motherboard socket.

This yielded sub zero overclocking capabilities but seriously shortened the component lifetime, so direct peltier to CPU cooling is not a common everyday cooling, as the failed hardware junk yard can attest to, but using the peltier to replace the radiators in a water cooling loop, not only works, but I'll venture to say now will eventually be the future cooling solution.

Especially with CPUs getting so hot to get your overclocked goals, like the Sandy Bridge and especially the new Ivy Bridge CPUs.

The key is getting it small and efficient enough to be something to invest in and my efforts here will be to make a solid resolution as a Do It Yourself project, because once major business gets a hold of this idea and presenting it to the overclocking community it will have a massive price tag on it.

As with this entire thread being dedicated to below ambient cooling, has already supplied many ideas to others to think outside the box and not be bound by traditional limitations!

Even though this below ambient cooling solution itself has seriously evolved since first being posted, it has been fully operational since the beginning of June 2011.

 
He can, but as explained earlier in the thread you start to have condensation issues, and with the peltier he actually found it could freeze the block its mounted to, which is obviously too cold,
Its a balancing act and a fine one at that 🙂
Moto
 
18c is pretty nice..Congrats! 😀
erm..can you go colder? hehehehe
Click to expand...

The coldest I've taken it is 5c by adding ice to the cooler, at that water temperature condensation is definitely a problem as solid drops of water are forming, on the water block and tubing.

Where I live, and that has everything to do with at what water temperature condensation begins, regarding relative humidity and dew point.

Condensation begins forming as a frosty look at 8c and as long as I stay above 8c say around 10c condensation is a non issue.

It helps that I have an AC unit in my office, that tends to keep humidity levels down quite a bit and allows lower non-condensation freedom.

The peltier totally cooling the water using no ice at all, has had my water temperature dropping below 12c, so it is capable of going lower than I need it to, if I leave it running long enough.

However the peltier is turning out to be very effective as it has not taken me to the condensation problem temperatures at all!

Started up this morning at 18.5c and 1 hour later it is 16.2c a 2.3c drop in an hour of run time and that's running 4 gallons of water in the cooler.

Present ambient room temperature is 24c so my water temperature is 7.8c below that. Ryan
 


Affirmative! :hello: Moto!

Ryan
 
Hey 4Ryan6!
Moto pointed me over here, after I mentioned that I've just bought a peltier plate from ebay.
Just want to thank you for the comprehensive guide and walkthrough. The most useful idea I picked up today was using another CPU block to let the peltier cool the loop.

I was honestly about to start cutting metal plates, welding them together to form a box, drilling 2 holes for pipes, weld the peltier outside the box and pass water through the box.

Given my lack of skill in welding, I think making that box will take half a month at least plus a lot of cursing, swearing, and injuries.

Thank you so much, you just saved my life.
 
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