Exploring Below Ambient Water Cooling

[4Ryan6]

If you'll be mounting it vertically You could tap in 2 compression 90s on the side and use them to create a sight glass water level indicator, like the big percolator coffee pots have.

 

[Motopsychojdn]

Curved surfaces are hard to tap, far beyond my meagre skills but yes, I see the idea and like the addition, maybe if the idea gets stolen by a manufacturer they could manage it
its assumed to be mounted vertically but theres no reason they couldn't go horizontally either,
I may try to sell it, but equally it may go into our loop somehow, probably on thge Gf's rig once thats put under water
what do you think of the mod as an idea though?
Moto

 

[4Ryan6]

Curved surfaces are hard to tap, far beyond my meagre skills but yes, I see the idea and like the addition, maybe if the idea gets stolen by a manufacturer they could manage it
its assumed to be mounted vertically but theres no reason they couldn't go horizontally either,
I may try to sell it, but equally it may go into our loop somehow, probably on thge Gf's rig once thats put under water
what do you think of the mod as an idea though?
Moto

Moto, I think it's a cool idea but I also think there needs to be someway to monitor the water level?

If it was manufactured it could be made of formed clear plexi with an extra thick tapping base and then painted to look like a fire extinguisher with an unpainted vertical strip maybe 10mm wide left clear for water level monitoring, using the actuator as you've already planned. Ry

 

[Motopsychojdn]

I know a visual would be a good idea, I'l have to give that more thought
but I was thinking that if there is any air in there, it will be a simple matter to remove it by squeezing the lever,
once water comes out (probably a good idea to affix 1/2 tube to the nozzle) the res is 100% full but I'm going to have to wait for practical tests until after I've sealed it and got another fitting sorted,
Damn it, now my brains working on how to do that 2x90's sightglass 😛
**Oh, finished Mass effect, onto Me2 now and fk me it looks very good, liquid/fabric textures are unreal,
I'm definitely happy with the rigs performance now hehe,
and the other half said wait till you get three monitors, it'll be even better lol

sounds like permission to me, just need more funds (again😛)
Moto

 

[4Ryan6]

3 monitors sounds nice but I just don't have room for that, it would require much more of an investment than the monitors, it would require remodeling my office, and that's just not even on the list.

Planning if all goes well and as planned, to build a screen porch on the rear of the house, a project long overdue!

 

[Motopsychojdn]

We don't have space in this room but if/when we move the gaming rigs into the other room its very high on my list,
first up is the chiller box and getting her Pc under water though
cool temps and silence way more important than a sixfoot monitor spread
Moto

 

[4Ryan6]

What's the chiller box progress?

 

[Motopsychojdn]

Nothing yet other than flashing images in my mind,
the other half is not up to starting to sort the second room out yet,
we have a bike rally coming up so money is being diverted for that and our pay date at my work is changing next month so after the 20th, wednesday, I have five weeks to make my money last lol,
I'm thinking of grabbing a 240 kit for her Pc as and when I can afford to, she doesn't clock and it'll only be Cpu so there will be plenty of cooling for her too
Moto

 

[4Ryan6]

Yeah everything has priorities, our toys have to wait until convenience allows!

 

[Motopsychojdn]

Woox's finished build btw,
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/forum2.php?config=tomshardwareuk.inc&cat=10&post=339183&page=1&p=1&sondage=0&owntopic=1&trash=0&trash_post=0&print=0&numreponse=0&quote_only=0&new=0&nojs=0
turned out pretty good
Moto

 

[earl45]

Woox's finished build btw,
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/forum2.php?config=tomshardwareuk.inc&cat=10&post=339183&page=1&p=1&sondage=0&owntopic=1&trash=0&trash_post=0&print=0&numreponse=0&quote_only=0&new=0&nojs=0
turned out pretty good
Moto

That's off the hook.

 

[4Ryan6]

Woox's finished build btw,
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/forum2.php?config=tomshardwareuk.inc&cat=10&post=339183&page=1&p=1&sondage=0&owntopic=1&trash=0&trash_post=0&print=0&numreponse=0&quote_only=0&new=0&nojs=0
turned out pretty good
Moto

I love it! Ry

 

[Motopsychojdn]

Another fine Toms collaboration build hehe
Moto

 

[cbrunnem]

ive browsed through this thread before so my ideas might have been covered already but maybe not.

why not run a radiator in the actually cooler so that you dont have an open loop?

also why not run a radiator before the run water hits the cooler so that you do not return hot water. that is of course if the return water is above ambient.

 

[Motopsychojdn]

A rad in the cooler (assuming submersion) would rust like hell in no time and you wouldn't have fans on it,
A rad above the water level in the chiller would also be likely to rust though not as fast, and pushing the heat out into the sealed chiller would be a holiday home for bacteria 🙂
Your last idea is closest to optimum, but my plan was that the rads in my loop, case and radbox, would remove all heat from the water, the chiller just provides slightly cooler water to the loop, its not intended to remove heat at all
Moto

 

[cbrunnem]

A rad in the cooler (assuming submersion) would rust like hell in no time and you wouldn't have fans on it,
A rad above the water level in the chiller would also be likely to rust though not as fast, and pushing the heat out into the sealed chiller would be a holiday home for bacteria 🙂
Your last idea is closest to optimum, but my plan was that the rads in my loop, case and radbox, would remove all heat from the water, the chiller just provides slightly cooler water to the loop, its not intended to remove heat at all
Moto

copper doesnt rust.... and correct me if im wrong but it will surface corrode but will not corrode past that. also water absorbs heat much better so fans prolly wouldnt be needed if it was submerged... theoretically lol.

 

[Motopsychojdn]

Rads may have copper tubing, but a lot have other metals as the frame,or fins,
Have a look at bronze statues to see what moisture does to copper, its called verdi-gris, and I wouldn't want it in my loop hehe,
That ofc is in addition to any unknown metals in the rads construction,
And if the heat was transferred from the rad to the water in the chiller, the chiller would be working to remove that heat, burning the compressor out,
And watervapour escaping into the room would cause health issues, potentially including Legionnaires disease
Moto

 

[cbrunnem]

Rads may have copper tubing, but a lot have other metals as the frame,or fins,
Have a look at bronze statues to see what moisture does to copper, its called verdi-gris, and I wouldn't want it in my loop hehe,
That ofc is in addition to any unknown metals in the rads construction,
And if the heat was transferred from the rad to the water in the chiller, the chiller would be working to remove that heat, burning the compressor out,
And watervapour escaping into the room would cause health issues, potentially including Legionnaires disease
Moto

ah makes sense.

what compressor though? i thought we were talking about a cooler with ice and water in it. not a refrigeration system?

 

[Motopsychojdn]

The chiller I'll be using is a mains powered unit, so it will have something working to keep things cold, it may just be some fan arrangement, but more likely a compressor with a gas in tubes, I won't know for sure till I've bought it,
But yes, you could just have a 'bucket' with ice in, thats essentially how Ryans scheme works, loop water runs into the container and he manages temps by gently placing frozen jugs of distilled water into it
*Edited to bring to present tense 😛
Moto

 

[Cjsparky]

Ryan could have 0 degree cooling if he wants to change the ice all the time. Hitting cold temps isn't an issue.

This "idea" comes up a lot. People want to run their cooling through a mini fridge or other such thing. The problem with this idea is how they work. They cycle on and off slowing bringing the temp of things down. Once its cold they then continue cycle (even slower) to keep your food cold. The problem is your CPU doesn't cycle. Its CONSTANTLY putting out 100-200W of heat all the time. This heat output will overwhelm the small cooling ability of these devices and your CPU will cook while your pump will die.

Nothing wrong with the idea if you can find a big enough unit to handle that much heat. But by then your probably better off doing something else that would be cheaper.

I wonder what would happen if the water was to heat through the loop, enter a external radbox to "Take the edge off", and THEN enter a mini-fridge to further drop the temps before returning to the CPU again...

 

[rubix_1011]

External rads would simply introduce more hot air to the subambient water, therefore reducing performance.

The minifridge idea doesn't work like you'd think. A fridge/freezer compressor is designed to remove heat from the source and maintain it; not to continually remove several hundred watts of heat as they are being introduced. You'd want to look into phase change or a water chiller if you were going to use a compressor.

 

[4Ryan6]

The chiller I'll be using is a mains powered unit, so it will have something working to keep things cold, it may just be some fan arrangement, but more likely a compressor with a gas in tubes, I won't know for sure till I've bought it,
But yes, you could just have a 'bucket' with ice in, thats essentially how Ryans scheme worked, loop water ran into the container and he managed temps by dumping frozen jugs in
Moto

You make my project sound in the past tense Moto, This wasn't a fluke experiment, I'm using this cooling right now, and each and every day!

My reservoir is a cooler or ice chest, and I don't dump the ice in it or it would splash all over the place, I gently place them inside the cooler, and I don't even put ice in until the water temperature is above 15c.

The cooler itself is insulated and designed to keep ice as cool as possible for as long as possible, sometimes I think THGF users think I'm constantly running to the freezer to swap out ice every hour on the hour, and that's not the case.

At this very minute my actual water temperature is 14.1c, what is your water temperature right now?

My CPU is idling at 17c what's your CPU idle right now?

At the most I'll use 2 jugs in and entire day of full computer use (Gaming), other days I only use one jug (Surfing the net and posting at Toms), and there's been days with low temps at night that I put in a jug before shutting down and don't use one at all the next day, because by the morning my temperature in the cooler has dropped to about 8c.

The largest inconvenience is the jugs will only last freezing and thawing about 10 times, then they have to be replaced but very rarely has 2 ever failed the same day, and I keep fresh jugs of distilled water on hand just for that.

When the jug fails I siphon off a gallon from the cooler and pour the leaking jugs distilled water in the cooler, so actually my water in the cooler is being refreshed on a regular basis.

I'd venture to say, the water I'm running in my setup is probably in better condition than what's in your closed loop.

 

[4Ryan6]

For anyone interested this is my planned next step to eliminate the ice all together by using an Aquarium Chiller to chill the water in the ice chest.

This will be budgeted to $500.00 + Shipping so there are quite a few choices most having the cooling capability up to a 40 + gallon tank @ 50F or 10c, which for me is just above condensation, depending on the model some exceed 100 gallon capability, so it should work great compensating for the added CPU heat for around 10 gallons of water in my cooler.

http://www.aquacave.com/EcoPlus-110-HP-Water-Chiller-by-Sunlight-Supply-P2521C433.aspx This is the one I've got my eye on.

http://www.aquacave.com/SeaChill-TR5-112-HP-Aquarium-Chiller-by-TECO-P2413C429.aspx

http://www.aquacave.com/Aqua-Euro-USA-Max-Chill-110-HP-Titanium-Aquarium-Chiller-P3057C446.aspx

http://www.aquacave.com/JBJ-Arctica-110-HP-Titanium-Aquarium-Chiller-DBA-75-P1785C443.aspx

Any of these will give me the ability to control the water temperature in my cooler, which will give me a constant temperature range to depend on.

This is total speculation until I actually do it, but this makes more sense than any other solutions I've seen, to eliminate the ice.

 

[toolmaker_03]

well that first one will slow your flow rates down to 1/2 of what they are now while the other 3 have about the same flow rate as a standard water cooling pump.

 

[4Ryan6]

well that first one will slow your flow rates down to 1/2 of what they are now while the other 3 have about the same flow rate as a standard water cooling pump.

No you're wrong!

Flow rate will not be affected!

I will be using the chiller to chill the water in the cooler to take the place of the ice, my present flow circulation will not be affected.

I will be using the chiller to chill the water in the cooler to take the place of the ice, my present flow circulation will not be affected.

I will be using the chiller to chill the water in the cooler to take the place of the ice, my present flow circulation will not be affected.

I will be using the chiller to chill the water in the cooler to take the place of the ice, my present flow circulation will not be affected.

I will be using the chiller to chill the water in the cooler to take the place of the ice, my present flow circulation will not be affected.

Did you get that?

Let me say it one more time to be sure.

I will be using the chiller to chill the water in the cooler to take the place of the ice, my present flow circulation will not be affected.

Here's backwards for you!

.detceffa eb ton lliw noitalucric wolf tneserp ym ,eci eht fo ecalp eht ekat ot relooc eht ni retaw eht llihc ot rellihc eht gnisu eb lliw I

Frontwards one last time!

I will be using the chiller to chill the water in the cooler to take the place of the ice, my present flow circulation will not be affected.

Do you understand now?