Exploring Below Ambient Water Cooling

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Has anyone ever heard of a geothermal cooling solution being used?
I worked on a project at design stage for a large aquatic centre where AC was provided by drilling into the ground for pipes to circulate water, thereby using the earth to draw out heat. It doesn't require a lot of depth to get to -10/15 ambient and the ability to keep taking out heat is almost endless. An afternoon with a hired pile driller/ PVC pipe and it's done, the best part it's maintenance free for say 15 years if the PVC pipe is approved for in ground use except for the pump and it's mostly hidden.

I'm working on a design for my house renov now for AC.
 
I have been searching for someone willing to do this for some time :)
my sketch was to run a reservoir/box in the ground with a couple of rads in it and tubing running to the house,
as you said three feet or so in most cases would be deep enough,
Link the 'build log' when you start work man, I'd be very interested to track the progress on that one
Moto
 
Using PVC tubing wouldn't result in as good of temps as using copper pipe. You'd also likely want to run a few down/back turns to allow for sufficient surface area- round tubing works on the principle of laminar flow, which isn't that great for heat absorption and dissipation. Watercooling rads have rectangular tubes or channels that forces the water flow to become turbulent in order to make as much contact with the outer walls in order to transfer as much heat as possible.
 
I'd have the actual tubing inside a Pvc tube sleeve, similar to how my current rig uses that ducting Rubix,
I wouldn't have the tubing that contained the water directly in contact with the soil,
you risk too much that way, what if a rat , insect or tree root punctures your tubing thats buried?
nightmare to trace the hole (Once you discover the problem) let alone the potential damage to the system hehe,
but once in the buried box, yes, as much surface area as possible to dissipate,
possibly even a fan with venting to surface (Covered of course)

Moto
 
Eh, I'd take my chances with just buried copper tubing. Little risk in a situation like this.

If I lived next to a flowing mountain stream, I'll give you one guess where I would place an external heat exchanger... :)
 
Yup, same here, as well as a couple of turbines to provide my house with power :)

On a purely economic basis though, plastic tube would be cheaper than copper to buy, plus the copper tube would look better in the Pc, steampunk!!! 😛
Moto
 



I'm of the understanding the greatest threat to this type of system is tree roots. The smallest leak in the system creates a 'watering' location the tree root is attracted to, letting the root grow around and into the leak causing more damage allowing more growth... A plumber buddy has recommended filling the drill holes with a thin surround of concrete at the very bottom only where the turns/joints are to secure them. At that depth the concrete gets somewhat water saturated so it conducts well with the surrounding earth.
 
The only thing going through my mind is if I even ever considered doing that is pitching it to my wife! :lol:

Honey, I have this great idea, I'm going to dig up some of the backyard that we worked for so long getting full coverage of grass, 25' long by 2' wide should be long enough for about 8 circulation runs of copper pipe, spaced about 3" apart of course, for earth contact.

Then I'll need to run all the pipe through a dimpler I want the best turbulent flow I can acquire of course and copper would give me the best heat transfer, I'll still have to trench my connection runs to the house, so a little more yard messed up.

We can't plant any trees there though, you know the roots will damage the tubing.

I'll need about lets see 8 circulation runs and connection to the house, great news honey, I can do it with 6 coils of 1/2" soft copper tubing that comes to $540.00, with free shipping plus the connectors, I can pick up locally.

Might as well just rent a small track hoe to do the digging, at about $500.00 a pop, but they'll bring it out and pick it up, for an extra $150.00.

Great news though, I already have a tubing bender, and all the cutting and soldering tools needed, I will have to rent that dimpler though, but it's the long term results of this project is what it's all about honey, you have to have the long term vision of this kind of project.

The wife says; "What is all this for?"

Cooling my computer!

The wife says; "Hold that thought!" and picks up the telephone and calls the local mental health association, "Hi, Please come out and pick up my husband, he is having another water cooling his computer idea!", " he wants to dig up the backyard and lay copper pipe in the ground?"

"No sirens this time please, just come and get him, this is getting embarrassing!"

ROFLMAO! :lol: Ry
 
So you tell her its a geo-thermic resonance equalising system that will bring the heating bill into synergy with the local areas natural balance, aligning the resonance will decrease the fuel bills,
blah bah nanobots, Pc hooked up to 'monitor' the system,
gigglewhirter bypass,
just go shoppping dear, I'll sort this out 😛
Moto
 


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!

I learned the hard way a looooooong time ago, not to trade off with her like that!!!!!!!!!!!!

I get my computer wants! She gets a freaking new car! (Do the Math!)

"Not the MaMa, Not the MaMa, Not the MaMa!" (Quote from Dinosaurs.)
 
Interesting idea, but I don't think it would work so well. First, if memory serves earth isn't a good thing to pump heat into. It takes a long time for it to get rid of heat. (which is good for us humans or else the side of the planet not facing the sun would have a lot of problems.) Second, you'll lose a lot of heat just getting it to the "copper field". I remember someone awhile ago who thought it would be a good idea to hook his HSF up to his cold water pipe. He wanted the heat to go from the heatsink on the CPU to the copper cold water pipe. Then when he wanted cooler temps all he'd have to do is turn the cold water on and presto, cooler temps. Those of us in the thread told him he'd lose too much heat to the air as it traveled the few feet in the room to the hole in his wall where the pipe was. I think the same issue would be the case here.
 
When the ambient is 30'c its a lot cooler a few feet down,
this cooling your water would be a good thing as any loop above ground is going to be at least at ambient (in a normal loop)(Well above if in sunlight as Ryan says)
I never envisaged it as a heatloss idea, more of a pre-chill set up
but its nice to finally discuss the prospect with someone who can do it and report back findings

Moto
 


Regarding the underlined above, not if it's in sunlight, that is a project I'm presently making plans to do, use sunlight to supplement my home water heating, completely different direction but IMO very useable heating solution to save long term money, heating water for home use.

Sunlight being a free heating source at least on non rainy days, but that's a different thread, and my off topic prerogative. :)

Regarding the in ground loop solution it would be viable, and would yield a below ground constant temperature as long as it was at least 3' below ground, however it would be a seriously expensive undertaking to do it right and in the end result, could supply below ambient room temperature and exceed the traditional water cooling closed loop, but would still be limited to a certain temperature range.

This thread solution allows ambient down to 0c of temperature range and the basic cooler/pump/CPU Block/tubing/etc., put into operation for less than about $350.00 US or so, 0c is not without condensation issues but is still never the less possible, an in ground loop supplies below ambient, but IMO not worth the time, cost, and trouble to implement to do it right.

***************************************************************************************************

If darreng101 is going to implement this cooling solution he has got my attention simply because it should be a condensation free below ambient cooling solution, meaning worry free punch the power button and rock on solution, my curiosity is what temperatures would be available to him?

Plastic or copper pipe, copper would transfer the heat to ground better, but what type copper for long term burial would last the longest the obvious answer is the solid stick vs the softer coil type, and the solid stick would require multiple solder joints, ending with plenty of acid flux left to flush out of the line.

But the softer copper coil could be long term protected by encasing it in cement, another option?

Plastic may be the better option as you could run longer lines for longer heat transfer with almost zero flushing problems, direct burial would not be a problem especially if irrigation grade was used, could be laid as a solid loop with no connectors if laid out as a progressive coil, even a stacked coil with dirt layered between?

"Honey, I'm going to Lowes!" :)
 


Regarding the underlined above.

That's what pipe insulation is for?

I would loose heat to air (actually cold to the warmer air), myself if my tubing was not insulated.
 
(Edited my post to reflect your pointing out of sunlight heating Ryan),

I wouldn't mind losing heat on the journey to the box/exchanger/coil, less work for it to do and the water returning to the Pc could be even cooler,
I think this is the most important thing to remember for people, it is not a design to lose heat from the Pc so much as a design to supply the Pc with cooled water,
heat will dissipate on the journey which is of course desirable,
but the focus from my point of view is that the water from outside/underground is much colder than that which is in a res on top of your desk in a warm house,
this kind of project is well outside of the normally held logic for most people, even most 'normal' watercoolers, its pushing the field and we obviously have to iron out niggles enroute, things like insulation and condensation are givens we know there are things to work through and overcome, thats part of what drives me at the very least
but by any gods you care to call upon, we can, and will make this happen :)
Moto
 
I decided to let everyone know what I am doing.

I cool my CPU the same way Ryan does. I play FSX and it likes higher clocks, the higher the better. Good air cooling will allow 4.5GHz on the 2500k but not 5.0GHz.

I have 2 480 GTX in SLI (when not playing FSX) w/c for Crysis 2 etc. However I cool my GPUs with my water supply coming to my house from the underground main. My exhausted water to the drain is ~ 22C. My idle temps are 27C and load temps running MSI Kombustor are 44C. Thats on OCd graphics cards but the temps really do not vary from stock temps to much as the water temp going to them is constant.

This is not a solution for everyone but works well for me. I used to cool my q9550 this way and it worked well. Costs me ~ $5.00 extra on my water bill a month to do this. This is probaly simular to what it might cost in electricity and components to run a closed loop w/c solution, but I really do not have that cost so that statement is speculation on my part. But I do know what is needed to run a closed loop depending on how elaberate you need to go for whatever results you might be looking for.

I once posted a thread about this w/c solution but mostly got negative responses about wasting water amongst others.

This does not waste water. I am not using it up. It gets recycled back to the ground water table eventually, as does all water.

All I need to do this is water block/s for what I am cooling, tubing and a water shut off valve. If my main water line was deeper in the ground I would have lower temps. I live in U.S.A., state of Missouri for a point of reference geologically.

I am very happy with the w/c solutions I have chosen so far. :sol:
 


Thanks for the kind words Moto. :)
 
All I need to do this is water block/s for what I am cooling, tubing and a water shut off valve. If my main water line was deeper in the ground I would have lower temps. I live in U.S.A., state of Missouri for a point of reference geologically.
Click to expand...

Pretty close to me, regionally- NE Kansas. And yes, water is never 'wasted'...it's naturally recycled. If by wasting, one means 'paying a bit more on their water bill', well that's your prerogative. Everyone (non-watercoolers) also thinks that watercooling is wasting money...it's just what is in order of importance to the individual.

I don't own a Ferrari to commute to work, but by God if I had the money to make that happen, I surely would. Same principle as spending extra money on cooling PC components.
 


After my wife hit a deer going to work about 2 months ago, if I could afford it, she would be driving an (APC) Armored Personnel Carrier, you're right! ~ it is, "what is in order of importance to the individual."

:)
 
I have run across something I need to share with you all, when I would change out my filter to a cleaned one, I got into a habit of sitting the dirty one on the desk in a bowl, and cleaning it later.

I did not realize leaving it to dry in the air environment was the perfect environment for some type of green algae or slime to begin growing inside of the filter.

The filters were taking on a greenish tint and as you can see they should be blue if no other color from the waters AC Tab color.

PresentCoolerSetup.png


FilterinPlace-1.png


It became noticeable because even after exterior cleaning using a soft bristle tooth brush the flow rate of the filter was impeded and getting worse with each change out.

This was not causing any evident problem to any other components, just restricting the flow rate of the filter.

This problem has been resolved as I have now solved how to completely clean the inside of the filter without damaging it, by using a soft nylon bristle 9mm pistol bore brush, it's the perfect size to clean the nylon screen filter mesh.

ToolsandFilter.png


FilterCleaning.png


9mmBoreBrush.png


I use Dawn dish washing liquid, to thoroughly clean inside and out, then thoroughly rinse out all the detergent from the filter.

I pass on what's learned from this cooling solution project as I discover it, and even though this present problem is solved, it may not have even occurred if I had cleaned the filter immediately when it was changed out, but that's just not always convenient.

This problem did take a long time to show it's self as being a flow rate problem, as presently this cooling solution is 11 days away from being in operation a full year. Ry
 
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