FYI: Your FRAME RATES and your SOUND CARD

[Slava]

EDIT 01: I made this post in the Graphics Cards forum because it directly relates to game performance questions people ask in this forum. Upgrading the video card is not the only way to improve FPS (frames per second). Depending on the system one may get a good boost by installing an inexpensive ($50-60) sound card.

EDIT 02: Many people misread this post before replying to it. The post below does not claim that everyone will get a 15% boost to their PC's performance by switching from on-board sound to a high quality dedicated sound card. Your results will vary but some systems can receive a very substantial boost (10-15%). The more powerful your CPU is the less of a noticeable boost you will get.

EDIT 03: The bottom line of the post is not that a 2 frames per second boost is very noticeable. The point is that if you had 20 FPS but with a new sound card you get 22 FPS, then you've achieved a 10% increase in performance wich will apply accross the board.

EDIT 04: The amount of performance increase will depend on how much sound processing is required by a given application and sound settings (quality) and effects. Not all games use high quality sound. In one game your increase may be 1% and in another it could be 12%...

EDIT 05: Lastly, this post is a summary of relevant articles by Microsoft and Thechnical Department of CGW (Computer Gaming World) magazine.

Read, experiment, have fun and form your own opinion.

========================================

I often see people posting questions about their frame rates. Many say that while their PCs are good, their frame rates are lower than they would expect. Many of these posters list their PC specifications, including their CPUs, video cards, hard drives, RAM and motherboards.

However, most neglect to indicate whether they have a stand-alone sound card or an integrated one and this is actually important. Most new motherboards have an integrated sound device. Many support Dolby Digital 5.1 and even higher and many gamers think this is good enough. They are wrong...

In trying to help posters figure out why their frame rates are lower than expected, THGC members often begin to speculate and question the quality of power supplies, drivers, video cards, RAM and what not....

What most people do not know is that there are almost no integrated sound cards which use hardware DSP (Digital Signal Processor).

A DSP for sound is like a GPU for graphics and some of the latest and greatest sound cards from Creative have tons of their own RAM (as much as 64 Mb).

What this means is that if an (integrated) sound card does not have a hardware DSP+ its own RAM – and about 90% of them do not – it offloads all sound processing to the CPU and in addition consumes system RAM much like an integrated video card which has very little of its own RAM and uses system RAM (a good example of this is Intel Extreme Graphics solutions which have 4-8 Mb of own RAM and use up to 248 Mb of system RAM)

The bottom line is that all else equal a system with a stand-alone sound card can be up to 15% faster than an identical system which uses an integrated sound card, especially if you set your gaming sound quality to "High" or "Very High" and enable surround/EAX or other effects. Compare average 60 FPS (minimum 30+maximum 90/2=60) vs. 51 FPS. There is a difference of 9 FPS (or 15%). This difference can be very noticeable when your game play is at its min FPS.

It does not matter how much RAM you have or how super your CPU is. I've read reports that the above is true even for Core 2 Duo machines with 2 Gb of RAM when playing games with heavy sound effects (such as BF2, for example).

 

[illicitsc]

Unstickified

 

[mesarectifier]

Finally

Although that Creative 'sound RAM' or whatever their marketing dept. call it is still boohockey.

 

[Heyyou27]

Finally, someone is over exaggerating the benefits of a dedicated soundcard. The only real benefit gained from a dedicated soundcard is the improved sound quality.

 

[mesarectifier]

Well it may be a little enthusiastic and those FPS quotes are likely increadibly selective, but people should stop ignoring the sound card on their list of PC parts! Especially when they specify retarded things like SLi/Xfire and Extreme Edition/FX series CPUs and use onboard sound.

 

[gm0n3y]

I have heard from many people that the difference is pretty negligible and that you would be better off spending the money elsewhere (sound quality aside). I don't really know who is correct, can you provide either some data (numbers) and/or links please?

 

[fredgiblet]

I have to call BS, switching to a much faster CPU shows very little gains in framerate once resolution goes up, the bottleneck is not the CPU but the GPU. Offloading a little bit of work from the CPU is not going to give a 15% increase in framerates unless you're running at 640x480, in which case it shouldn't matter. That being said dedicated sound cards do have an impact (though very minor) and the sound quality is usually better, so an ultimate gaming rig should definitely include one.

 

[GeneticWeapon]

Todays processors have more than enough balls to handle any "soundcard offloading" they may come across.

This subject was all the meat and potatoes before 64bit computing came along.

/thread.

 

[Heyyou27]

Well it may be a little enthusiastic and those FPS quotes are likely increadibly selective, but people should stop ignoring the sound card on their list of PC parts! Especially when they specify retarded things like SLi/Xfire and Extreme Edition/FX series CPUs and use onboard sound.

I always use a dedicated soundcard, but I don't try to advertise fantastic performance increases that don't exist.

Yes, but soundcard takes some load of CPU and RAM to some extent.

You hate SLI and Crossfire, but now you're saying your soundcard helps performance "some" ?

 

[Mike995]

Hardocp has shown performance increases when turning off onboard sound, how ever soundcards dont totally offload all stress from sound off of the processor, as the processor enevidibly has to run the drivers. And many cheaper sound cards dont nativly process EAX they have to use their drivers to do so, drivers using up clock cycles. I personally wouldnt spend more then 75 $ on a sound card, as my onboard sound tweaked sounds great along with my Sennheiser PC 160 sk's.

 

[JonathanDeane]

Poeple its not just offloading work from the CPU that work has to get in and out of the CPU (IE bandwidth) and please people if you dont own a sound card dont say there is no benifit other then sound quality... speaking from actual experience here BF2 does have a difference in frame rates from turning it on and off. Now for the boo hooers yes you could spend money on a better graphics card and get waaaayyy more improvement on FPS then FPS from a sound card (wich kinda makes sense since the sound card doesnt do graphics.... duuhhhh) There are more benifits to a sound card then simply games too ! I guess no one listens to music on there PC's lol If you spend any amount of time listening to music on your PC and have decent speakers INVEST in a sound card (even a cheaper one) I wouldnt recomend anyone get the same sound card I did (Fatal1ty) as its expensive ! But for me it was a personal decision and I dont regret it one bit, I enjoy it every day

 

[gm0n3y]

I still don't have any links to reputable benchmarks, so for now I am going to go with "it makes a difference, just not enough to really care".

 

[Mike995]

I bought a cheap sound card hoping for better sound quality then my inboard sound, how ever it really wasnt any better at all. Aslong as you tweek the equaliser onboard sounds good. The only problem I have with onboard is sounds not being played during games, such as oblivion. When there are many enemys small noises like sword swinging to groans from the monsters arent played. I listne to music alot on my box, and prefer using my pc to listen to music.

 

[Slava]

Unstickified

Hahahaha! Silly boy

Not that I feel the need to defend my original post, but it seems necessary to quell the anger of some of those who replied and reassure those who jump from conclusion to conclusion *winks at illicitsc*.

First, I read not only online articles but also printed media. The information comes from the Tech section of October 2006 issue of CGW, page 100. I have trusted this magazine for over a decade and I see no reason not to now. Go pick up a copy, since I cannot link to it :lol:

Second, my post said up to 15%. This is exactly what it means. The performance gain can be as small as 1% or as great as 15%. Learn to read.

Finally, the performance gain does depend on the overall power of the system. However, my further research showed that on average the gain is about 10% which is substantial. People often go as far as volt-mod their video cards and replace stock coolers + overclock their CPUs just to get that 10% boost while they have it right there by sticking a dedicated sound card in. And as games use more realistic sound (for example X-Fi cards can simultaneously reproduce up to 64 voices and apply up to 4 EAX effects to each voice depending on where it is generated in the environment) more processing power will be required. If all this work is offloaded to the CPU via software, guess what will happen… So do yourselves a favor and get a good sound card especially if you are not running a Core 2 Quadro setup with 4 Gigs of RAM.

 

[randomizer]

And as games use more realistic sounds, the processors get better, so they can still handle them.

Btw, I like seeing someone use colour in their posts, it adds flair. Good work

 

[Kurosen]

so... just a quick, simple question really...

if i have a case w/ front audio ports, will i be able to use them w/ the sound card?

i think i had heard somewhere some soundcards allow you to do that.

 

[Slava]

if i have a case w/ front audio ports, will i be able to use them w/ the sound card?

The ports in the front are input/output jacks for your existing integrated sound card. This sound card will have to be disabled for the new one to work. This is done in the sytem BIOS. Chances are you will be unable to connect your front ports to the new sound card unless that sound card has a dedicated interface for that purpose.

And as games use more realistic sounds, the processors get better, so they can still handle them.

Not necessarily in that order. Most new games challenge top of the line machines available at the time these games are released. Take Oblivion, for example. Granted, Oblivion's sound is not all that impressive nor is it that important. However, games like Splinter Cell or BF2 where situational/positinal awareness is important do use advanced sound settings. A good sound card not only takes some load off your CPU and RAM but also improves overall gaming experience and creates a sense of immersion.

I remember some time back when I played Rainbow Six games with friends I spent most of the time respawning because I had a bad sound (integrated) card and could never hear footsteps of those sneaking up on me from behind. My frame rate also suffered and I could not figure out why since my machine was every bit as good as theirs...

But regardless of the above, it is not the issue of whether the CPUs can or cannot handle the additional load of processing sound. They can. But by processing sound they spend resources which could be otherwise allocated and overall performance is reduced.

 

[Kurosen]

So what about USB headphones? if you have a soundcard instead of the normal onboard, will the usb headset bennifit? or... sumthin... =/

 

[randomizer]

Thats a good question since there is no direct connection to the card. Which means the usb controller has to be a "middle man" I guess, introducing latency.

 

[Kurosen]

Also, one last thing i'd like to know...

Im about to build a computer that will primarily be used for gaming... generally, i skip out on the soundcard...

I had kinda got this little idea in my head tho... i'd like to get a soundcard, but mainly only to use when im at my house (which will be most of the time, but the rare times i get out, i wouldnt mind using my front panel audio...

so i had figured on getting a soundcard that has a separate attatchment that sits outside the computer... much like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829102181 (but something i can plug headphones and a microphone into, this one doesnt look like it has that, tho i might just not be able to tell)

i was thinking i could hook it up and use it when im at home, and if i ever take my computer anywhere (friends house, lan, etc...) i can just, disable that and enable the onboard (i guess that would be in device manager?)

is there any particular good setup for something like this? thanks

 

[Slava]

So what about USB headphones? if you have a soundcard instead of the normal onboard, will the usb headset bennifit?

It is impossible to answer your question by "yes" or "no". It depends on the capabilities of your current card versus those of the new stand-alone sound card. If your current card is "stereo" and the new card is Dolby Digital... AND if your headset is good enough you will hear the difference as your new setup will be able to emulate surround sound effects while your current setup cannot.

Whether you hear the difference in sound quality or not also depends on the quality of motherboard/integrated sound card you have. In most cases integrated sound cards are plagued by interference from motherboard's cirquitry. This interference is inaudible when you are in a firefight. But in a different situation, say when you are trying to sneak around quietly static and other inteference will be audible. I find that quite annoying, frankly.

But you are missing the point of this thread. If you have questions about sound cards you should go to the sound cards forum. Here we are discussing how sound cards affect frame rates.

.... and no, you should disable the on-board sound in the BIOS, not the Device Manager.

 

[ReliReli]

Yeah, I remember when I didn't have a sound card. Then I got my Audigy.

The infinite range of sounds and sound effects I have at my disposal with a sound card like this compared to onboard isn't even a challenge to me; I'll never build a computer without its own dedicated sound card, no matter what I use a computer for.

And yeah, you do see boosts in performance. My games love EAX (shooters especially) - hey, if you get better sound and better framerates to boot, why not? Many aren't that expensive either, although, yes, Audigys and their front bay devices are mighty handy for headphone users like myself.

Games certainly aren't the only reason to get a card, either. Music is waaaay better with EAX, especially on my headphones - you can pretty much tweak music exactly to your liking and have full control of lots of goodies. I can't wait till I get my hands on an X-Fi for my next build, and a decent set of speakers.

As far as being on-topic goes, I call balderdash on onboard audio. Although it will do in a pinch. So there.

 

[randomizer]

Whether you hear the difference in sound quality or not also depends on the quality of motherboard/integrated sound card you have. In most cases integrated sound cards are plagued by interference from motherboard's cirquitry. This interference is inaudible when you are in a firefight. But in a different situation, say when you are trying to sneak around quietly static and other inteference will be audible. I find that quite annoying, frankly.

I've never noticed it, but I've never listened for it either. Plus I use hopeless speakers too, but they're good enuf for me (creative inspire 4400 4.1 I think).

 

[hergieburbur]

so... just a quick, simple question really...

if i have a case w/ front audio ports, will i be able to use them w/ the sound card?

i think i had heard somewhere some soundcards allow you to do that.

Chances are you can disconnet the fornt audio from you board internally, then you just need to find a card that has the right interface, or do a custom wiring job to get it to work.

 

[Dr_asik]

Even +15% isn't a very substantial boost. If you suffer from a bad framerate (say 20), +15% means you'll be still stuck with 23fps, which is approximately the same.

Some mobos might still have crap onboard sound, but since a couple years now it's generally very good. Yes, a dedicated sound card will give better sound quality, but that might only be significant if your speakers are good enough to allow you to hear the difference, and that is a big if (as I know of no reasonably priced computer speakers that would allow that. Computer speakers are designed for making explosions sound big, which is not something hard to do.). Secondly, most games use heavy sound compression: Doom 3 sounds are impressive, but they're in .ogg @ 30 to 85kbps. Civilization IV's beautiful soundtrack is in mp3 128bps, as is most of the music you get on Limewire and stuff. If I want to listen to a master recording of Prokofiev's 3rd, I'll use the sound system in my living room, thanks.