FYI: Your FRAME RATES and your SOUND CARD

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Finally, someone is over exaggerating the benefits of a dedicated soundcard. The only real benefit gained from a dedicated soundcard is the improved sound quality.

Heyyou27, I hate to bother you, but is your image a scene from the Jonestown massacre?

Off subject I know. My sincere apoligies, but I must know.

High regards,
HowardYes it is.
 
If you run 3dmark03, it runs a series of benchmarks with no sound, then again with varios numbers of voices. I think max was 60. The results show the effect of the sound processing on your framerate. When I built my current system, I used the onboard sound. It couldn't even run the 60 voice test, so I re-fitted my old Sonic Fury, which does the job fine.
Mike.
 
hmm, although i never buy a soundcard for FPS increases i am willing to help test this regardless iof the test accuracy.

one thing that i am not sure that has been mentioned though and one reason why i doubt the accuracy of any testing is the amount of processing that is done by each sound device.

as i'm sure most people know, anything but creative's cards are limited at eax 2.0.

now the thing that worries me is that a soundcard in new games will be using eax 4.0 or 5.0.

i am not sure how much more processing power it takes between 4 or 5 and 2 but i do know it should be quite a bit as the newer ones support more environmental sound such as bleding between rooms or environments if that is the rightw ay to put it and also how much individual sounds can be heard.

so i am not sure if i would need old games which don't use more than 2.0 or if i can limit the eax version used in some games.

wouldn't mind hearing others view on this. will the eax version affect the amount of processing enough to muddy the waters.

You bring up excellent points. Alot of onbourd sound and even older sound cards are not even capable of doing the sound effects that can be heard using a current gen card.

A small reminder for people with Audigy's and X-Fi's if your game supports openAL use that its awesome and more games support it then people realize (although most only with a patch or update) I dont know if any other cards support it but I think some do ? Its kind of the sound version of OpenGL :)

Edit: Just like to toss this link in for fun.

http://www.openal.org/titles.html
 
Finally, someone is over exaggerating the benefits of a dedicated soundcard. The only real benefit gained from a dedicated soundcard is the improved sound quality.

Heyyou27, I hate to bother you, but is your image a scene from the Jonestown massacre?

Off subject I know. My sincere apoligies, but I must know.

High regards,
HowardYes it is.

I'd like to tell you a Jim Jones joke, but the PUNCHLINE is too long.
 
I have to call BS, switching to a much faster CPU shows very little gains in framerate once resolution goes up, the bottleneck is not the CPU but the GPU. Offloading a little bit of work from the CPU is not going to give a 15% increase in framerates unless you're running at 640x480, in which case it shouldn't matter. That being said dedicated sound cards do have an impact (though very minor) and the sound quality is usually better, so an ultimate gaming rig should definitely include one.
Depends entirely on what game you are talking about. That's why people say some games are "CPU Limited" VS "GPU Limited".
 
AngusHades:

G’day I’m from aus here and I’ve been reading from THG for quite sometime now , I often see some of you wankers say crap about having a sound card doesn’t improve at all which is a load of BS. I recently brought a XFI and I play games at 12801024 and there is improvement in my FPS. Even my GF could notice the difference. I often wonder if any of you guys have even owned a sound card before you say your 2cents. It’s like you have a voice with nothing to back it up. You don’t even address people’s problems correctly in some forms, you just say buy this…hardly anything else….Anyhow this is my
first say in THG and the whole form deal.

A very impressive entry! Welcome to the forumz, brother. It is nice to see someone who speaks his mind without being unnecessarily "politically correct" in a very annoying true-blue manner :) Keep it up and don't let anyone force you to second-guess every word you say. Again, welcome.

jaguarskx:

I've always used SoundBlaster cards in the few PCs I've owned over the years. Onboard sound has always been kinda crappy to me. However, I think performance loss would be small if using a very fast single core CPU, or any dual core CPU. I'm guessing the 15% loss in performance would be for older systems with slow CPUs.

You are correct. Weaker systems will see a greater boost. However, we often see posts where people ask "What can I do to put another year of life into my aging system?"

Our typical first response is "Get this or that video card". But it turns out that we can do more by adding a dedicated sound card too (you can get a pretty good one for $50). No?

Dr_Asik:

People who spend a lot of money on overclocking represent a minority of geeks. Most people either don't know about all those beautiful ways of wasting time and money, or figure out that money is better invested on one important upgrade from time to time than small, sometimes psychological and often risky "tweaks".
Hehe :) True.

What bothers me with your initial statement is that it sounds like "no wonder you're getting bad framerates, you're using onboard sound". That's like saying "no wonder you're getting bad framerates, you're not even overclocking the hell out of your rig".

No need to be bothered. You misread my OP. See my signature. (Written) English is, unfortunately, rather ambiguous.

4745454b:

Why are you guys using synthetic benchies? Why not use real games?

Because it is very complicated and time-consuming. PM me if you'd like the details.

wallis:

i have gained about 2fps more in doom 3, 5fps more in CSS source, and about 6 fps more in quake 3 using the same gfx drivers.

Thanks. With others doing this on different configurations we can get to the bottom of this after all. HOWEVER, Wallis, saying that you get 2 FPS here or 6 there is saying nothing. What was your prior FPS? If you had 20 FPS and gained 2 it means a 10% boost. 60 versus 66 FPS is a 10% gain as well. See?

StrangeStranger:

hmm, although i never buy a soundcard for FPS increases i am willing to help test this regardless iof the test accuracy.

I said thanks in my PM. Here it is again. Let's play with this and have some fun.

It may be impossible for me to do serious testing this weekend, but I will try.

Cheers everyone.
 
I'm afraid you're exaggerating the results of using a dedicated soundcard vs. an integrated solution. I'd bet you can't find one situation where performance is improved by 15%, heck, even a 5% performance boost is unlikely.
 
Yeah, installing that X-Fi sounds card only boosted my 3dmark06 score from 6350 to 6580. Not a big jump in performance at all. :roll:
 
That's not a bad increase really. I broke 6500 at least.

ASUS P5W DH Deluxe
E6600 @ 3.24GHz
4x 1GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-6400 @ 360MHz 4-4-4-8
MSI X1900XTX
X-Fi Elite Pro
WD1500 Raptor

Yeah the small boost isn't that big a deal on my system here but on my servers it would give me a decent enough boost to warrant it.
 
Yeah, installing that X-Fi sounds card only boosted my 3dmark06 score from 6350 to 6580. Not a big jump in performance at all. :roll:
Please don't tell me you're using a synthetic benchmark to measure the performance improvement of adding a dedicated soundcard. :lol:
 
It shows improvement, not that hard to see. In game it's a little tougher to tell but it's definitely present. Just without doing time demos it's harder to pin a number on the improvement.
 
A very impressive entry! Welcome to the forumz, brother. It is nice to see someone who speaks his mind without being unnecessarily "politically correct" in a very annoying true-blue manner :) Keep it up and don't let anyone force you to second-guess every word you say. Again, welcome.
Yea, that was a real good post you dolt :roll:

He calls the thread participants(us) a bunch of "wankers", and uses his girlfriends oppinion on the matter to add sustenance to his(and your) own oppinion.

That's like me saying "your a dolt".....and getting my girlfriend to agree with me that your a dolt, so by golly....you must really be a dolt.

....and I can guarantee you, that my girlfriend is much better at recognizing a dolt, then his girlfriend will ever be at noticing a possible slight increase in framerates in some fucking computer game(complete bullshit :roll: )
 
I ran 3dmark 03 on my old pc which has onboard and I got 58fps on the sound test with no sound and 49 I think on the 30 sounds test (or whatever the second test is). So there is a definite drop in fps there. Ill try my old SB live value in there this afternoon to see if there is anthing to report.

EDIT: should post specs i guess lol or its pointless:
a64 3000+ s754
1gb kingmax ram
9800 pro
onboard sound (for now)
kv8-max3 mobo (a nightmare OCer)
 
G’day I’m from aus here and I’ve been reading from THG for quite sometime now , I often see some of you wankers say crap about having a sound card doesn’t improve at all which is a load of BS. I recently brought a XFI and I play games at 12801024 and there is improvement in my FPS. Even my GF could notice the difference. I often wonder if any of you guys have even owned a sound card before you say your 2cents. It’s like you have a voice with nothing to back it up. You don’t even address people’s problems correctly in some forms, you just say buy this…hardly anything else….Anyhow this is my first say in THG and the whole form deal.

P.S I'm only 21 and i can even notice how full of crap some of you guys are.
Good to see another aussie here :wink:
 
Nice thread Slava. Don't pay attention to the people that don't believe the increase in performance, they just dont have a damn clue what they are talking about.
 
Of course you cant have them on at the same time! Thats like sending two separate signals to your speakers at the same time (well actually you are). You have to disable onboard in the BIOS for you to be able to use your sound card.
 
Nice thread Slava. Don't pay attention to the people that don't believe the increase in performance, they just dont have a damn clue what they are talking about.
If he paid no attention to them then where would the debate be? No debate = one-sided point of view and possibly misleading/false info.
 
Actually, this sound card thing does seem to make sense. I've noticed that my system often times performs better on many benchmarks with my Audigy2zs sound card, than what I've seen on comparable, or even slightly better systems, benchmarked by tomshardware, when they use onboard sound.
 
onboard sound uses CPU clock cycles, that's for sure; now, comparing one onboard sound chip to another may lead to some variations - quality of the driver, exactly what is offloaded to the CPU...
Meaning that, with 6-channel sound using EAX:
- for a bad onboard module with a bad driver, the CPU load can reach 15%;
- compared with a good quality, well driven onboard chip, said load can be 6-8%;
- a good PCI sound card (say, Hercules Fortissimo) may use up 5-7% of CPU time;
- and a fully accelerated card with a good driver may lower the CPU load to 3.5%.

There were tests about this a long time ago in Tom's.