[SOLVED] Gaming Build Tweaking/Advice

[Muckster]

Hi, I recently got some great advice from you guys for a new gaming build. (special thanks to jeremyj_83, cryoburner, and jimthenagual). It's taken me a little longer to pull the trigger than I expected, but I'm close and wanted to see if the build needed any last minute tweaking.

One thing that's changed since I last posted is where I'll be putting the case. Ideally, I'd like to place it inside a sort of unusually thick wall that divides two room or put it in the top cubby hole of the wall unit I built, just below the HDTV. (Wall is thick because it was built to hide an Iron I-beam in the basement). The enclosed area where the PC will live is about 3' x 5' x 16", or about 20 sq feet of space. On one side is mounted a 60" HDTV which also will have some back venting into this enclosure. Below the TV are cubby holes for components, one of which currently holds a ATX build horizontally oriented. My plan is to relocate this current PC case to inside the wall compartment and for my NEW build I'll either put that build inside the enclosure too, or put it into the top cubby. The ceiling of this top cubby has many holes drilled in to allow it to vent into the enclosed area. On the back side of the wall there is an access door to the compartment. On this access door is another 12" x 6" opening which is disguised as a register vent. I hope some of that made sense. Here's an image of the wall unit followed by another image of where the faux front opens showing a computer desk area. (I just ran extension cording so the sitting area has power on/off and a USB hub).

Wall Unit

PC area

TV specs:
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16889007194

If you ask me, I'll try to get a picture of the actual enclosure and other side of the wall.

Long story short. I had a PC case inside the wall and one in the cubby hole out front. The one inside the wall died (old age) and so I'm moving the one in the cubby inside the compartment to use for the one that died then I'm going to build a new PC. The new PC can either live in the top cubby under the TV or it could ALSO be placed inside the compartment. Sorry for being a bit redundant.

Anyway, the point is, this new build might have some heating issues at least during taxing gaming.

Here's the build for PC that's currently IN the wall unit, but which I will soon put INSIDE the wall unit. This is a 2015 build. I only list it to give you a sense of the heat it might kick out.
https://pcpartpicker.com/user/pshopper/saved/#view=mWCRsY

Now, for my NEW build, this is what I'm working with (jeremyj_83 credit):
https://pcpartpicker.com/user/pshopper/saved/#view=G8GJbv

This ATX AMD build is around $1,640 but Parts Picker doesn't currently show the cost of the fractal case which is currently out of stock.

So, first, it's been a couple weeks so if there's any better deals on hardware I can swap out for a little better deal, please let me know. I have a hard time keeping up with making sure everything is compatible so I get nervous swapping out components. I debated going with the Ryzen 7 2700 3.2, but I think the 2600x might be a better fit. I'm open to any suggestions, but in a previous thread the good people at the forums here helped me to rule out Intel.

I don't overclock and I don't upgrade.

Typically I build a new PC with quality components every 5 to 6 years the keep the older one for LAN play or to pass down to a family member. I'm 50 years old and have a couple teenagers who I like to LAN play with in my home. Anyway, I think the 2600 X will be better for me because I don't plan to overclock it beyond the factory OC settings. On the other hand, being an old gamer, I'm now established, and it's not a big issue for me to throw another hundred bucks or so at this build if someone can talk me into it.

You can see in the listed build that I've got several case fans. I'm a little worried about the noise. I might switch those out for Notura or Be Quiet! or maybe use fewer fans. That's one of the big questions I'm struggling with. Maybe if it's inside the wall it will be hotter, but also I won't hear the noise as much?? That said, I guess the best way to mount this new PC for cooling will be in that cubby hole just under the TV which means I'll need a case that's good with a horizontal orientation but I'd like to hear from the forum. I do like the Fractals, but maybe there's something better suited? (and the Define S is out of stock ATM anyway).

So, if you please, advise on this build, how to cool it, and where to put it! I'm a little nervous about using any kind of water cooling and my intention for that 2600X is to just use the stock fan.

These forums have been good to me and your advice is much respected and appreciated! While I am no stranger to building PCs, I don't keep up with the latest tech.

Thanks if you can help!

EDIT: Cubby hole (shown in image just below the TV) has these dimensions:
19"W, 20"deep, 6" tall. There are holes above it (going into the enclosed wall) and there are also holes on the shelf it rests on. Well, I should say I plan to drill holes in the shelf on which it sits but I haven't done it yet.

 

[Hellfire13]

If this is for gaming, then Intel will mostly perform better. And I would mostly avoid to build something small due to heating issues. Keeping that in mind, you will have to keep it in the wall. So close the door only when the PC is switched off. Something like this should be good...

PCPartPicker Part List

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
CPU | Intel - Core i7-8700K 3.7 GHz 6-Core Processor | $349.99 @ Walmart
CPU Cooler | Scythe - Mugen 5 Rev. B 51.17 CFM CPU Cooler | $47.89 @ OutletPC
Motherboard | ASRock - Z390 Pro4 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard | $113.90 @ OutletPC
Memory | G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory | $76.99 @ Newegg
Storage | Crucial - P1 500 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive | $66.85 @ OutletPC
Storage | Hitachi - Ultrastar 7K3000 3 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive | $46.35 @ Amazon
Video Card | MSI - GeForce RTX 2080 8 GB VENTUS OC Video Card | $689.99 @ Newegg
Case | Cooler Master - MasterBox MB511 ATX Mid Tower Case | $50.99 @ SuperBiiz
Power Supply | Corsair - TXM Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply | $74.99 @ Newegg
| Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts |
| Total (before mail-in rebates) | $1572.94
| Mail-in rebates | -$55.00
| Total | $1517.94
| Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-06-03 23:28 EDT-0400 |

 

[g-unit1111]

Here's the build for PC that's currently IN the wall unit, but which I will soon put INSIDE the wall unit. This is a 2015 build. I only list it to give you a sense of the heat it might kick out.
https://pcpartpicker.com/user/pshopper/saved/#view=mWCRsY

Now, for my NEW build, this is what I'm working with (jeremyj_83 credit):
https://pcpartpicker.com/user/pshopper/saved/#view=G8GJbv

This ATX AMD build is around $1,640 but Parts Picker doesn't currently show the cost of the fractal case which is currently out of stock.

I guess the question I have is due to the space restraints of your cabinets why wouldn't you consider a smaller form factor like micro ATX or mini ITX? You don't need a full water cooled system to get maximum performance from your TV build. Maybe something like this:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel - Core i5-9600K 3.7 GHz 6-Core Processor ($249.99 @ Walmart)
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-L9i 33.84 CFM CPU Cooler ($39.95 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus - ROG STRIX Z390-I GAMING Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard ($199.98 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z RGB 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($115.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo Plus 250 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Intel - 660p Series 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($104.99 @ Walmart)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce RTX 2070 8 GB XC GAMING Video Card ($539.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design - Node 202 HTPC Case ($69.95 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair - SF 600 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular SFX Power Supply ($129.99 @ Corsair)
Total: $1520.81
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-06-03 23:49 EDT-0400

That gives you a fully functional system in a size that can be easily put anywhere.

 

[Muckster]

If this is for gaming, then Intel will mostly perform better. And I would mostly avoid to build something small due to heating issues. Keeping that in mind, you will have to keep it in the wall. So close the door only when the PC is switched off. Something like this should be good...

Hmm... I think I'd still like to stick with AMD and the 2080 rather than Intel and 2070. By the time I pay more for the Intel Chip and 3rd party cooler, I don't think it's the best bang for the buck.

There are going to be two PCs. The one behind the door is a sort of hidden desk area. That box is going to inside the wall. The new build can go inside the wall too, or sit in the cubby.

I'm no cooling expert, but my intuition is the same as yours that a full tower ATX would be better at cooling than something smaller, although I see the next poster is taking the opposite view (g-unit). Then again, maybe a smaller case in a cubby hole is better at cooling because it has more room for air to flow around it?
cubby hole is 19"W, 20"deep, 6" tall. There are holes above it (going into the enclosed wall) and there are also holes on the shelf it rests on.

thanks for the advice hellfire

 

[Muckster]

I guess the question I have is due to the space restraints of your cabinets why wouldn't you consider a smaller form factor like micro ATX or mini ITX? You don't need a full water cooled system to get maximum performance from your TV build. Maybe something like this:

G-unit,
Thanks for the reply. Like Hellfire13 above, you also suggest I go intel, but I'm not sure it's worth going from the 2080 to the 2070 on the vid card just to pay for the more expensive CPU and 3rd party cooler. Again, I will never overclock and I think the intel chip draws a little more power potentially running hotter.

But unlike Hellfire, you're reasoning is the opposite when it comes to cooling. I would have thought a full tower ATX would make it easier to cool, but you seem to suggest a smaller case is better. I guess it would have more airflow around it if I put it in the cubby, but my instinct is that more air space inside the case would be cooler and quieter. Then again, I'm no expert which is why I'm here.

The cubby hole dimensions (shown in image just below the TV) are 19"W, 20"deep, 6" tall. There are holes above it (going into the enclosed wall) and there are also holes on the shelf it rests on. In my OP I linked the current build that lives in the cubby now (but will later relocate to inside the wall). During taxing gaming, it gets a little noisy with the fans. My kids mostly use it so they just pull it out a few inches and that seems to cool/quiet it down.

Would you agree it's better to put the new PC in the cubby rather than inside the wall itself?

 

[Hellfire13]

Hmm... I think I'd still like to stick with AMD and the 2080 rather than Intel and 2070. By the time I pay more for the Intel Chip and 3rd party cooler, I don't think it's the best bang for the buck.

There are going to be two PCs. The one behind the door is a sort of hidden desk area. That box is going to inside the wall. The new build can go inside the wall too, or sit in the cubby.

I'm no cooling expert, but my intuition is the same as yours that a full tower ATX would be better at cooling than something smaller, although I see the next poster is taking the opposite view (g-unit). Then again, maybe a smaller case in a cubby hole is better at cooling because it has more room for air to flow around it?
cubby hole is 19"W, 20"deep, 6" tall. There are holes above it (going into the enclosed wall) and there are also holes on the shelf it rests on.

thanks for the advice hellfire

I don't overclock and I don't upgrade.

Thats Intel with 2080. And, by the time this becomes obsolete, you will need a platform change anyway.
Its better to avoid a gaming build inside a small case, unless absolutely necessary. All Intel K chips suffer from heating issues even on stock clocks due to the 3rd class TIM they use, and its better to go with one of the larger coolers, even if you are not overclocking.

 

[g-unit1111]

G-unit,
Thanks for the reply. Like Hellfire13 above, you also suggest I go intel, but I'm not sure it's worth going from the 2080 to the 2070 on the vid card just to pay for the more expensive CPU and 3rd party cooler.

The Intel CPU doesn't come with a cooler so you would need to get one regardless of whether you want one or not. I just chose that one because Noctua makes some of the best coolers around and I've used that particular cooler in builds before. What GPU you get would also depend on what your monitor resolution is. If your TV is 1080P then you don't need a 2080. But if your future plans include 4K or a higher resolution then you could benefit from getting a 2080. I just threw that build together on a whim, if you want more specifics I can do that.

But unlike Hellfire, you're reasoning is the opposite when it comes to cooling. I would have thought a full tower ATX would make it easier to cool, but you seem to suggest a smaller case is better. I guess it would have more airflow around it if I put it in the cubby, but my instinct is that more air space inside the case would be cooler and quieter. Then again, I'm no expert which is why I'm here.

Well, that's one school of thought when it comes to cooling. Sometimes bigger isn't always better especially if you're left to a confined space for where you can put your PC. The main reason why you would want a standard or full size ATX tower is that it is easier to install larger coolers and even liquid coolers if you so desire. But then again that also depends on how far you want to overclock. If you're not going to overclock a lot then you wouldn't need a large cooler, in which case you would benefit from a smaller form factor such as mini ITX or micro ATX. If you're not overclocking then you don't need a large cooler so you could go with a smaller form factor and still get the same PC performance that you would out of a full tower.

The cubby hole dimensions (shown in image just below the TV) are: cubby hole is 19"W, 20"deep, 6" tall. There are holes above it (going into the enclosed wall) and there are also holes on the shelf it rests on.

Yeah I have similar constraints on my setup. I originally designed my cabinets around a Corsair 600T but I replaced it with an Enthoo Pro and it's plenty big enough for that. But with those dimensions, if you were to take a case such as that, the Enthoo Pro measures 21.06" x 9.25" x 21.65" and that wouldn't fit. A case like the NZXT H500i 18.11" x 8.27" x 16.85" so that could fit, but then again it would still be a very tight fit in that space. I would say the smaller, the better in this situation.

 

[Muckster]

Thats Intel with 2080. And, by the time this becomes obsolete, you will need a platform change anyway.
Its better to avoid a gaming build inside a small case, unless absolutely necessary. All Intel K chips suffer from heating issues even on stock clocks due to the 3rd class TIM they use, and its better to go with one of the larger coolers, even if you are not overclocking.

Oops, you're right. You did have the 2080 listed. I must have confused it with G-unit. But I'm still not sure you're build is worth the extra money and heat.

My build (in OP). CPU+stock fan+Mobo = $250

Your Build: CPU+Cooler+Mobo= $511 (+ runs hotter)

G-unit: CPU+Cooler+Mobo= $490 (+ runs hotter)

I don't think going Intel is worth spending $500 instead of $250. See what I mean?

Again, I tend to agree about avoiding the smaller case, although I don't know anything about cooling as a science. Plus the ITXs tend to be a little more expensive. On the other hand, I'm not going to fit an ATX case into that cubby so the very first question is where should I put it? If I can put it INSIDE the wall, then I'm thinking ATX. In the cubby, I'd probably need mini-ITX. Mini-ITX is what's in there now as shown in my link in the OP.

So cubby hole or inside wall?

Once we determine that, then we can talk about how many fans and what the best case would be. If it's going in the cubby, then I'd need a case good at laying horizontally most likely some kind of mini-ITX. My expectation is that it won't be too loud when just being used to stream videos, but the fans will ramp up when gaming.

 

[Muckster]

The Intel CPU doesn't come with a cooler so you would need to get one regardless of whether you want one or not.

Well, that's my point. I don't need to buy a 3rd party cooler for the AMD. The build I proposed is CPU+stock fan+atx mobo = $250

Your build is CPU+cooler+mobo=$490, and it runs hotter.

I'm not sure it makes sense to spend $490 instead of $250 just to get the Intel chip.

If we don't look at the mobos, then AMD CPU+stock cooler = $180 for my build, but Intel CPU+after market cooler =$290. Is the intel Chip really worth paying 60% more plus the added negative of more heat?

I just chose that one because Noctua makes some of the best coolers around and I've used that particular cooler in builds before. What GPU you get would also depend on what your monitor resolution is. If your TV is 1080P then you don't need a 2080. But if your future plans include 4K or a higher resolution then you could benefit from getting a 2080. I just threw that build together on a whim, if you want more specifics I can do that.

The TV specs are listed in my OP. It's the 60" in the image above. It's 4k, but I really don't expect or need to run everything at high resolution. Even so, I'm pretty well settled on the 2080.

Well, that's one school of thought when it comes to cooling. Sometimes bigger isn't always better especially if you're left to a confined space for where you can put your PC.

Well, I'd like to talk about that. Would you put the case inside the wall or in the cubby hole? In terms of cooling and noise, it doesn't intuitively make sense to me that I would be better off using a smaller case. More obstructed airflow, more cramped components, etc. To me that means more heat and more noise. But if there's a school of thought why smaller is better, I'd like to learn more. Please elaborate.

The main reason why you would want a standard or full size ATX tower is that it is easier to install larger coolers and even liquid coolers if you so desire. But then again that also depends on how far you want to overclock. If you're not going to overclock a lot then you wouldn't need a large cooler, in which case you would benefit from a smaller form factor such as mini ITX or micro ATX. If you're not overclocking then you don't need a large cooler so you could go with a smaller form factor and still get the same PC performance that you would out of a full tower.

As I said in the OP, I don't want to water cool and I will not be overclocking. This means I can just use the AMD stock fan and save money. Besides the cooling, the other reason for going with ATX is that the ITX mobo you listed is more than double the price of the one in my PP list.

Yeah I have similar constraints on my setup. I originally designed my cabinets around a Corsair 600T but I replaced it with an Enthoo Pro and it's plenty big enough for that. But with those dimensions, if you were to take a case such as that, the Enthoo Pro measures 21.06" x 9.25" x 21.65" and that wouldn't fit. A case like the NZXT H500i 18.11" x 8.27" x 16.85" so that could fit, but then again it would still be a very tight fit in that space. I would say the smaller, the better in this situation.

You're absolutely right about the case size. But that's why my primary question is about location and why I think we need to start there. Is it stupid to think about putting the case INSIDE the wall? (20 sqft of space, vented)? This could easily house an ATX case whereas the cubby hole location would need something smaller. Currently the cubby hole houses a mini-ITX case but I plan to move that INTO the wall regardless of where I put the new build (see old 2015 build in OP).

Thanks for your help!

 

[Hellfire13]

Oops, you're right. You did have the 2080 listed. I must have confused it with G-unit. But I'm still not sure you're build is worth the extra money and heat.3

My build (in OP). CPU+stock fan+Mobo = $250

Your Build: CPU+Cooler+Mobo= $511 (+ runs hotter)

G-unit: CPU+Cooler+Mobo= $490 (+ runs hotter)

I don't think going Intel is worth spending $500 instead of $250. See what I mean?

Again, I tend to agree about avoiding the smaller case, although I don't know anything about cooling as a science. Plus the ITXs tend to be a little more expensive. On the other hand, I'm not going to fit an ATX case into that cubby so the very first question is where should I put it? If I can put it INSIDE the wall, then I'm thinking ATX. In the cubby, I'd probably need mini-ITX. Mini-ITX is what's in there now as shown in my link in the OP.

So cubby hole or inside wall?

Once we determine that, then we can talk about how many fans and what the best case would be. If it's going in the cubby, then I'd need a case good at laying horizontally most likely some kind of mini-ITX. My expectation is that it won't be too loud when just being used to stream videos, but the fans will ramp up when gaming.

Keeping the heating issues in mind, ideally I would use a big case. So it has to go inside the wall.

 

[g-unit1111]

Well, that's my point. I don't need to buy a 3rd party cooler for the AMD. The build I proposed is CPU+stock fan+atx mobo = $250

Your build is CPU+cooler+mobo=$490, and it runs hotter.

I'm not sure it makes sense to spend $490 instead of $250 just to get the Intel chip.

If the overall budget of a build is spending $1600 then either you spend more on the motherboard / CPU and less on the GPU, or you spend more on the GPU and less on the CPU / motherboard. But either way once all is said and done the overall cost of the two systems is practically identical. As far as running that all depends on a ton of different factors that I could spend all day talking about, and you can have a smaller form factor without it running hot. SFF builds do tend to run hotter because of restricted space, but there are work arounds for it.

The TV specs are listed in my OP. It's the 60" in the image above. It's 4k, but I really don't expect or need to run everything at high resolution. Even so, I'm pretty well settled on the 2080.

Duly noted. Even though Intel is more expensive, the i5/i7 are recommended for gaming more than AMD CPUs and you can see it in the benchmarks.

Well, I'd like to talk about that. Would you put the case inside the wall or in the cubby hole? In terms of cooling and noise, it doesn't intuitively make sense to me that I would be better off using a smaller case. More obstructed airflow, more cramped components, etc. To me that means more heat and more noise. But if there's a school of thought why smaller is better, I'd like to learn more. Please elaborate.

Maybe I didn't explain this very well. On modern micro ATX and mini ITX cases you won't run into the problems that cases of that size in the past had. Pretty much case made now has some form of cable management and hides the PSU out of the way (see for instance the NZXT H200i). The only reason you'd need a larger tower is if you're using a larger cooling solution. But you seem set on using the AMD stock cooler. Which is fine. And then you wouldn't need a very large case. The larger cases are made for larger cooling solutions, like liquid radiators and full custom CPU - GPU loops. If you don't need that, there's no reason to purchase a large case.

You're absolutely right about the case size. But that's why my primary question is about location and why I think we need to start there. Is it stupid to think about putting the case INSIDE the wall? (20 sqft of space, vented)? This could easily house an ATX case whereas the cubby hole location would need something smaller. Currently the cubby hole houses a mini-ITX case but I plan to move that INTO the wall regardless of where I put the new build (see old 2015 build in OP).

No not at all. I have one of my PCs sitting in a cabinet like that. As long as its' well vented then you shouldn't have a problem.

 

[Muckster]

If the overall budget of a build is spending $1600 then either you spend more on the motherboard / CPU and less on the GPU, or you spend more on the GPU and less on the CPU / motherboard. But either way once all is said and done the overall cost of the two systems is practically identical.....(and later on)... Even though Intel is more expensive, the i5/i7 are recommended for gaming more than AMD CPUs and you can see it in the benchmarks.

To be clear, I understand and respect that you and others here have the knowledge and I'm just trying to catch up and understand. The problem is, you guys here an other places don't agree and I'm sorta stuck in the middle.

Speaking of which, Hellfire13 has taken the exact opposite stance of yours. He recommends putting it in the wall. I don't know who's "right", but I know I know less than each of you. Care to address him directly or speak to his comments?

Moving forward, I take your point about spending more on the CPU and less on the GPU but having the costs come out about the same. For a more apples to apples comparison, here's an AMD build using Mini-ITX:
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/PxVPZR

(I've upped the AMD to the Ryzen 7 2700)
CPU $210 (using stock fan)
Mobo $120
RTX 2080 $730
Total $1060

Compared to your build...
CPU $250
cooler $40
mobo $200
GPU 2070 $540
Total $1030

Intel is the better CPU for the price, but the 2080 is the better GPU.
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-7-2700-vs-Intel-Core-i5-9600K/3957vs4031

UserBenchmark: Nvidia RTX 2070 vs 2080

gpu.userbenchmark.com

I couldn't find benchmarks comparing AMD to Intel when each chip is using different vid cards...

I know there are other factors like cores and threads and future gaming but I think that depends a lot on the game creators. Again, I acknowledge my ignorance which is why I go to tech sites like TH or Anandtech, both of which favor AMD over Intel, May and February, respectively.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-pc-builds,4390.html

Best CPUs for Gaming: February 2024

www.anandtech.com

Plus, as I mentioned in the OP, I raised this issue a couple weeks ago and the folks here were predominately pushing me towards AMD.

Also, I think it's fair to say that the Intel will run a little hotter, but then the 2080 GPU will probably also run hotter than the 2070.

Regardless of whether or not I ultimately go Intel or AMD, if I'm going for the cubby hole, I'm going Mini-ITX so maybe we could focus on the best case and fan layout for the job?

SFF builds do tend to run hotter because of restricted space, but there are work arounds for it.

I'd like to hear more about the work arounds in small form factors! Or better yet, please share your knowledge over what the best case and fan layout would be given my situation. Mini-ITX in the cubby, resting horizontally knowing there are vent holes above and below. You linked the Node 202 in your PP build, but in your post you mention the NZXT H200i.

Can you give me a more final word on what case to use and how many fans in what configuration? I'll probably get some Notura or Be Quiets to help with the noise. The current PC I have in the cubby is a few years older. It gets a little loud when gaming but is fine for streaming. As I said, I haven't yet put holes in the bottom shelf so that will help too.

Maybe I didn't explain this very well. On modern micro ATX and mini ITX cases you won't run into the problems that cases of that size in the past had. Pretty much case made now has some form of cable management and hides the PSU out of the way (see for instance the NZXT H200i). The only reason you'd need a larger tower is if you're using a larger cooling solution. But you seem set on using the AMD stock cooler. Which is fine. And then you wouldn't need a very large case. The larger cases are made for larger cooling solutions, like liquid radiators and full custom CPU - GPU loops. If you don't need that, there's no reason to purchase a large case.

Well, like you said SFF tend to run hotter, but the point is moot if it's going in the cubby which can't accept an ATX. Is cable management what you meant by work arounds? I see what you mean about how cable management has gotten better, particularly with modular PSUs, but I"m not sure why a mini-ITX build would have better cable management than an ATX build.

 

[Muckster]

Keeping the heating issues in mind, ideally I would use a big case. So it has to go inside the wall.

*sigh. lol.

I fully admit you guys here in the forums know more that I do. That's why I come here! The problem is you and the other poster, G-unit, have taken opposite views on this fundamental issue. Care to address his comments or explain why you might have a more informed view? I'm just stuck in the middle.

 

[Hellfire13]

What G-Unit said is not incorrect. Its just another approach to the same space constraint. You have to decide where you want to place the PC. We cannot decide that for you. We can tell you how to build it in the given space available.
Looking at the first pic of yours, it seems like there is only enough space in those cubbys to accommodate HTPCs. HTPCs are disasters as gaming machines. And Mini ITX should be your last option...
https://www.howtogeek.com/300957/the-pros-and-cons-of-building-a-mini-itx-gaming-pc/

 

[Muckster]

What G-Unit said is not incorrect. Its just another approach to the same space constraint. You have to decide where you want to place the PC. We cannot decide that for you. We can tell you how to build it in the given space available.

What? It's not the same space restraint. One is in cubby hole, and the other is inside a wall in a 20 sqft enclosure. But of course you already know this. It was the whole premise for me posting. And of course you can decide where to put it because you and G-unit both did and you completely disagree with each other. Your comment is so bizarre and reality denying that I really don't know what else to say.

I think what's really happening here is that you must have some kind of understanding with other posters that you don't want to argue or confront each other too directly, least of all a mod. That's cool. I get it. I'm not inviting you to argue with other posters or label them "incorrect". We don't want things getting uncivil. But what good is a forum that just offers ignoramuses like me two opposing options without any kind of consensus? Surly there must be some kind of middle ground.

Looking at the first pic of yours, it seems like there is only enough space in those cubbys to accommodate HTPCs. HTPCs are disasters as gaming machines. And Mini ITX should be your last option...
https://www.howtogeek.com/300957/the-pros-and-cons-of-building-a-mini-itx-gaming-pc/

There's a mini-ITX build in that cubby right now. I mentioned this in the OP and even posted the build and on more than one occasion I've posted the dimensions of the cubby. You say it should be my last option. G-unit says it's my best option. I'm left wondering how getting opposite answers to the same question is any different than getting no answer at all.

 

[SgtScream]

The 2nd gen Ryzen will not only free up budget for a better graphics card, this processor runs cooler than the i7 which is a win win win in my opinion. The reason for the third win is because it has better multicore performance and that is what is going to give the system better overall longevity with triple A gaming before a full system platform upgrade is necessary. Gaming demands are going to place the 8 core 16 thread chip as a mid end chip in the not to distant future as game demands continue to increase. Going with the i7 8700k is like basically going with a hyperthreaded i5. Don't get me wrong that chip is amazing now, but there are so many reasons as previously mentioned not to go with that processor.

 

[Muckster]

The 2nd gen Ryzen will not only free up budget for a better graphics card, this processor runs cooler than the i7 which is a win win win in my opinion.

Thanks for reply. I'm a little behind on the tech. 2nd gen? Exactly what AMD CPU are suggesting would be the best to build the system around?

 

[SgtScream]

The R7 2700x is a monster and that combined with a x470 motherboard is beast mode.

 

[jeremyj_83]

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 2700 3.2 GHz 8-Core Processor ($209.89 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-L9i 33.84 CFM CPU Cooler ($39.95 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock - B450 GAMING-ITX/AC Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard ($119.89 @ OutletPC)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws 4 Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($77.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Intel - 660p Series 2 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($194.89 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate - Barracuda Compute 2 TB 2.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.97 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce RTX 2080 8 GB TURBO OC Video Card ($679.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design - Node 202 HTPC Case ($69.95 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS SGX 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular SFX Power Supply ($118.40 @ Amazon)
Total: $1580.92
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-06-05 19:29 EDT-0400
This is closer to $1600, can get rid of the spinning disk if need be, but this would fit in that small slot and give great performance. One thing to remember is that Ryzen 3000 series comes out in a month. Might be worth while to wait and see what the benchmarks say about it.

 

[Muckster]

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 2700 3.2 GHz 8-Core Processor ($209.89 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-L9i 33.84 CFM CPU Cooler ($39.95 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock - B450 GAMING-ITX/AC Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard ($119.89 @ OutletPC)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws 4 Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($77.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Intel - 660p Series 2 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($194.89 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate - Barracuda Compute 2 TB 2.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.97 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce RTX 2080 8 GB TURBO OC Video Card ($679.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design - Node 202 HTPC Case ($69.95 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS SGX 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular SFX Power Supply ($118.40 @ Amazon)
Total: $1580.92
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-06-05 19:29 EDT-0400
This is closer to $1600, can get rid of the spinning disk if need be, but this would fit in that small slot and give great performance. One thing to remember is that Ryzen 3000 series comes out in a month. Might be worth while to wait and see what the benchmarks say about it.

I think this is it. I like the smaller case (g-unit also recommended), as I think the best plan is put it in the cubby.

You helped me with a similar earlier version of this build. I don't mind the extra costs, but I notice this time you added a 3rd party cooler to the AMD. Is that because of the smaller case? I know nothing about 3rd party coolers, including the Noctua. If there's a way to pay a little more for something reliable and extra quiet, let me know.

I've liked Seasonic PSU's in the past. I think this PSU is actually pretty quiet, but I'd be willing to pay a little more if there's a quieter one. Is it correct that this PSU doesn't even run its fan unless the case temp goes high enough to call for it? And finally, I usually get more power than I need, but in this case I only want just enough because I'm worried about heating issues. 650 is about right, huh? Again, if I can pay a little more for something just as reliable but a little quieter, let me know.

You mentioned Fractal 140mm case fans to me before (68.4 airflow/ 18.9 noise / 1000 RPM). It's not that these seem loud, but with the small enclosure I'd like to do whatever I can to keep the heat and noise down. As I keep saying, I'd pay a little more for something quieter. If there's a brand or model to look into, let me know.

It's nice to have a second HD just in case something unexpected happens. 2TB+2TB. Wow. I guess games are getting bigger though.

Thanks for tip about Ryzen, but I've waited long enough!

 

[jeremyj_83]

http://www.fractal-design.com/home/product/cases/node-series/node-202
It appears you can add 2x 120mm fans. I don't know if they will get in the way of the GPU, but if they don't they would add airflow into the case. This case needs a lower profile CPU cooler than comes with the Ryzen. The Noctua is a good cooler for the CPU.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seasonic-focus-sgx-650w-sfx-l-psu,6045.html
That is a review of the PSU. SFX power supplies are always tough to keep silent due to the small form factor. Ideally you will get your best efficiency at 50% load so while gaming you will be around your best efficiency with at 650W PSU.
That 2TB SSD is less than I paid for my first SSD in 2013 which is a 240GB Neutron GTX.
You have waited long enough for now, but AMD is claiming a 15% IPC improvement for Zen2 which is huge.
It is sad that the space you have isn't an inch taller. If it was you could use the Silverstone GD09B or GD09Bv2. Those are full ATX HTPC cases and use full ATX PSUs. I have the v2 and it is nice, but 6.7" tall.

 

[Muckster]

http://www.fractal-design.com/home/product/cases/node-series/node-202
It appears you can add 2x 120mm fans. I don't know if they will get in the way of the GPU, but if they don't they would add airflow into the case. This case needs a lower profile CPU cooler than comes with the Ryzen. The Noctua is a good cooler for the CPU.

Of course. That makes sense. I could and should have figured that out myself. I just feel pressure to get my questions in before the thread cools!

So with this case I'll have the PSU 120mm fan and two 120mm fans moving the air through the case. I'm not really sure what's the best balance for noise and cooling. Any specific recommendations on what the best Airflow(CFM)/RRM would best for this design? As I understand, the higher the RPM, the nosier, but with the small case and cubby hole location I'll need to move some air.

Should I consider a more active cooling system, meaning, letting the mobo regulate when to turn fans on and off, possibly at different RPMs? I think that requires special fans and mobo capabilities. It's been many years since I tried to design a quiet rig and even then I always had issues.

And finally, I've never used water cool and I am a little nervous about it, but if you think that solution might fit here I'd like to hear your thoughts.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seasonic-focus-sgx-650w-sfx-l-psu,6045.html
That is a review of the PSU. SFX power supplies are always tough to keep silent due to the small form factor. Ideally you will get your best efficiency at 50% load so while gaming you will be around your best efficiency with at 650W PSU.

Okay, I trust your judgement and that sounds good. I see this PSU getting recommended a lot.

That 2TB SSD is less than I paid for my first SSD in 2013 which is a 240GB Neutron GTX.

Yeah, I had a similar experience, but the SSD improvement certainly was bodacious!

You have waited long enough for now, but AMD is claiming a 15% IPC improvement for Zen2 which is huge.

You know how it is... there's always something on the horizon and I'd like to get this build together for my kids over summer vacation. Besides, as wishy washy as I've been, I'd hate to restart the research process. I must be driving you crazy.

It is sad that the space you have isn't an inch taller. If it was you could use the Silverstone GD09B or GD09Bv2. Those are full ATX HTPC cases and use full ATX PSUs. I have the v2 and it is nice, but 6.7" tall.

My first reaction is to ask if bigger is better in such a small space? What's the ideal we are shooting for here? Even if I could just barely put an ATX case in there, would that be better or am I better off with something smaller and trying to keep as much space around it for outside air to flow? I even thought about putting a smaller case on a little stand inside the cubby just to allow more air flow underneath it. I'm just not good at understanding the physics or science behind air flow cooling design.

My old build is in there right now (see image, cubby below TV). It's using a Silverstone ML08 Case in there which is slightly bigger than the Node 202. I notice it gets pretty loud sometimes during gaming, but dragging it forward and letting it hang over the edge a couple inches seems to help some. As I said above, there are several 1" holes drilled above that cubby to let air flow up and my plan is to cut a lot more holes in the bottom of the shelf to allow air to better be sucked up from below.

Silverstone Case used by old build
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/6htWGX/silverstone-case-sstml08bh

Likewise, because the cubby will have airholes above and below but no way to vent on the sides or back, maybe I should be considering a case that (laying horizontally) has fans pulling from the bottom and pushing out the top?

Anyway, I could maybe do 6.4" tall, but no more, and it would be cramped. In terms of keeping it cool, if you think I'm better off with a different case, please tell me now! Budget isn't the primary issue for an old gamer like me.

Thanks Jeremy for all the spoon feeding. I really am trying to wind this down and I think I"m close. The cooling is the only issue left.

 

[jeremyj_83]

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 2700 3.2 GHz 8-Core Processor ($209.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-L12S 55.44 CFM CPU Cooler ($49.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock - B450M PRO4 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws 4 Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($77.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Intel - 660p Series 2 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($194.99 @ Newegg Business)
Storage: Seagate - Barracuda Compute 2 TB 2.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.97 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce RTX 2080 8 GB TURBO OC Video Card ($679.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Silverstone - GD05B-USB3.0 HTPC Case ($126.99)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Platinum 650 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($108.32 @ Amazon)
Case Fan: Enermax - UC-8EB 24 CFM 80 mm Fan ($11.08 @ Amazon)
Case Fan: Enermax - UC-8EB 24 CFM 80 mm Fan ($11.08 @ Amazon)
Total: $1610.29
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-06-06 10:42 EDT-0400
According to Silverstone if you remove the ODD you can have a 120MM cooler which would mean you don't need the Noctua CPU cooler
https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?area=en&pid=241
Newegg has the case, pcpartpicker didn't find it from them. https://www.newegg.com/black-silver...-atx-media-center-htpc-case/p/N82E16811163205

If you wanted to spend an extra $100 on the PSU you can get the Seasonic 600W Fanless Titanium. That would cut down on noise while gaming since you would only have the CPU and GPU fans that you would hear.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N9OLE9X/?tag=pcpapi-20

This build would be more expandable in the future than the Node 202, and since you can get a full ATX PSU in them the PSU would be quieter as well. There is going to be good airflow into the case and the 2x 80mm will help expel air out the back. The GPU is blower style so it won't dump hot air into the case either. The case fits 11" cards and this is 10.71". Also you will have about 3/4" on each side of the case since it is 17.32" W.

 

[Muckster]

PCPartPicker Part List

Total: $1610.29
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-06-06 10:42 EDT-0400
According to Silverstone if you remove the ODD you can have a 120MM cooler which would mean you don't need the Noctua CPU cooler
https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?area=en&pid=241

Thanks again for all your time. Sorry this is taking so long to figure out.

To recap, the build currently in the cubby hole has never crashed from overheating, but it gets pretty loud during gaming and I end up pulling it forward and letting it sort of hang out a few inches. Even though the cubby has air holes at the top, I think what's happening is the exhausted heat going out the back of the case eventually builds up and probably pushes out to the sides and front of the cubby hole. At least this is my theory.

The case in there now is Silverstone ML08.

SilverStone INTRODUCTION：ML08

www.silverstonetek.com

The big advantage my curent case seems to have over the Silverstone GD05 you suggest (and the Node 202) is that the current case has large venting above and below the case (when laid horizontally). I believe the GPU fans blow out through the vents through the top of the case. I'm not entirely sure where the GPU fans will blow in the GD05. Maybe just inside the case? Maybe towards the back? With the exception of a small vent for the PSU located on top and below the GD05, all the heat is blowing out the back of the box and all the intakes are on the sides.

The worst thing about all these horizontally laying cases including my current build, the Node 202, and the one you suggest is that none of them have an FRONT intake fan as you traditionally see in a vertical ATX tower case. The front of the PC case is where all the cool air is because that's open to the room. All other dimensions are walled in, howbeit with some walls having air venting holes.

The ideal case would be one that has intakes in the FRONT and possibly the bottom, and exhaust fans blowing out the top or out the back as a secondary preference. Ideally, if GPU or CPU fans are blowing heat away and out a vent, then those exhaust vents should also be located on the top. Blowing out the back is of course the most common and might work, but not as well as blowing up.

I don't know that such a case exists. So I might have to drill more holes or otherwise create more venting inside the wall unit itself. I'm going to have to do more research.

All this said, the basic thing that concerns me about the GD05 is that because it bigger (1,308 sq") than my current build (747 sq"), it will fill up more of the cubby and I think this means heat is more likely to get trapped behind it creating a positive pressure which will blow the heat forward along the sides of the case and right into those 120mm intake fans. Again, just my theory. Maybe the positive pressure will blow the heat out the top of the cubby where the holes are instead? I don't know.

Anyway, regarding the option to remove the ODD... I'd prefer a built in DVD, but cooling and noise is more important to me. In terms of cooling and noise, would it be better to keep the ODD and run the stock fan or remove it and run the Noctua? Or maybe remove the ODD and still use the Noctua? Cost isn't the concern.

If you wanted to spend an extra $100 on the PSU you can get the Seasonic 600W Fanless Titanium. That would cut down on noise while gaming since you would only have the CPU and GPU fans that you would hear.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N9OLE9X/?tag=pcpapi-20

I've done a little research on this fan since you posted it. Thanks for the idea. I think I would get it but again, I'm concerned about airflow. For the GD05 case you suggested, the only top and bottom venting is for the PSU. If I have a fanless PSU, I lose my only chance to use top and bottom venting. Also, do you think it's a problem that it's only a 600W instead of the original 650W you suggested? More generally, my concern with a fanless PSU is will it overheat or just cause other fans in the case to run harder and louder? Also, the GD05 will have three 120mm intake fans, two 80mm exhaust fans, the CPU and GPU fans..... how noisy is this build going to be and if it's that noisy will it even matter if the PSU has no fan? When it comes to cooling theory, is there cumulative effect for fan noise?

This build would be more expandable in the future than the Node 202, and since you can get a full ATX PSU in them the PSU would be quieter as well. There is going to be good airflow into the case and the 2x 80mm will help expel air out the back. The GPU is blower style so it won't dump hot air into the case either. The case fits 11" cards and this is 10.71". Also you will have about 3/4" on each side of the case since it is 17.32" W.

All good points. Overall, I think the case looks good in a self contained way, although I'm a little concerned it will be loud just because there are so many fans. The problem is what case will work best in the cubby. It really comes down to whether or not the heat going out the back of the case is allowed to escape fast enough that the cubby itself doesn't build up positive pressure forcing the hot exhausted air forward.

I'd rather get no answer than an uniformed guess, but do you think liquid cooling would work in this build? It's not my first choice and I know almost nothing about it. Also, are case fan speeds typically monitored by the mobo for RPM relative to case heat or in this build are all fans passive and just running all the time?

Wow, another long winded post and I'm still not sure what to do. I wouldn't blame you if you abandoned the thread at this point so thanks for all the help so far whether or not you have anything else to add. I'm gonna go look for more cases with front intakes and then see if I can do anything to add more vents to my wall unit. The build itself looks good!

 

[jeremyj_83]

Thanks again for all your time. Sorry this is taking so long to figure out.

To recap, the build currently in the cubby hole has never crashed from overheating, but it gets pretty loud during gaming and I end up pulling it forward and letting it sort of hang out a few inches. Even though the cubby has air holes at the top, I think what's happening is the exhausted heat going out the back of the case eventually builds up and probably pushes out to the sides and front of the cubby hole. At least this is my theory.

The case in there now is Silverstone ML08.

SilverStone INTRODUCTION：ML08

www.silverstonetek.com

The big advantage my curent case seems to have over the Silverstone GD05 you suggest (and the Node 202) is that the current case has large venting above and below the case (when laid horizontally). I believe the GPU fans blow out through the vents through the top of the case. I'm not entirely sure where the GPU fans will blow in the GD05. Maybe just inside the case? Maybe towards the back? With the exception of a small vent for the PSU located on top and below the GD05, all the heat is blowing out the back of the box and all the intakes are on the sides.

The worst thing about all these horizontally laying cases including my current build, the Node 202, and the one you suggest is that none of them have an FRONT intake fan as you traditionally see in a vertical ATX tower case. The front of the PC case is where all the cool air is because that's open to the room. All other dimensions are walled in, howbeit with some walls having air venting holes.

The ideal case would be one that has intakes in the FRONT and possibly the bottom, and exhaust fans blowing out the top or out the back as a secondary preference. Ideally, if GPU or CPU fans are blowing heat away and out a vent, then those exhaust vents should also be located on the top. Blowing out the back is of course the most common and might work, but not as well as blowing up.

I don't know that such a case exists. So I might have to drill more holes or otherwise create more venting inside the wall unit itself. I'm going to have to do more research.

All this said, the basic thing that concerns me about the GD05 is that because it bigger (1,308 sq") than my current build (747 sq"), it will fill up more of the cubby and I think this means heat is more likely to get trapped behind it creating a positive pressure which will blow the heat forward along the sides of the case and right into those 120mm intake fans. Again, just my theory. Maybe the positive pressure will blow the heat out the top of the cubby where the holes are instead? I don't know.

Anyway, regarding the option to remove the ODD... I'd prefer a built in DVD, but cooling and noise is more important to me. In terms of cooling and noise, would it be better to keep the ODD and run the stock fan or remove it and run the Noctua? Or maybe remove the ODD and still use the Noctua? Cost isn't the concern.
[\QUOTE]

The Noctua and the base CPU cooler both have 95W TDP ratings and the 2700 is a 65W TDP CPU. My guess is the Noctua might be quieter since it has a 120mm fan with it. The other advantage of the Noctua is that you wouldn't have to remove the optical drive bay.

I've done a little research on this fan since you posted it. Thanks for the idea. I think I would get it but again, I'm concerned about airflow. For the GD05 case you suggested, the only top and bottom venting is for the PSU. If I have a fanless PSU, I lose my only chance to use top and bottom venting. Also, do you think it's a problem that it's only a 600W instead of the original 650W you suggested? More generally, my concern with a fanless PSU is will it overheat or just cause other fans in the case to run harder and louder? Also, the GD05 will have three 120mm intake fans, two 80mm exhaust fans, the CPU and GPU fans..... how noisy is this build going to be and if it's that noisy will it even matter if the PSU has no fan? When it comes to cooling theory, is there cumulative effect for fan noise?
[\QUOTE]

Here are a couple review of the fanless PSU.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seasonic-prime-titanium-fanless-600w-psu,5433.html

Seasonic PRIME 600 Titanium Fanless Power Supply – JonnyGURU.com

www.jonnyguru.com

Basically in a hot environment, 37C at Johnnyguru or 45C at Tomshardware, the PSU is still very efficient. You will want a positive airflow case for it since the case fans help cool it. However, it is totally silent which is a bonus. If you wanted to stay at 650W with a PSU that has a fan and extremely high efficiency, that means lower heat, then the Prime Ultra Titanium is a great choice.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075M468LT/?tag=pcpapi-20

Seasonic PRIME Ultra 650 Titanium Power Supply – JonnyGURU.com

www.jonnyguru.com

The 120mm fans are 20dBA and the 80mm fans are 14dBA. You will barely be able to hear them and the GPU fan will be much louder than that. http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist2/projects/sixer/loud.pdf

All good points. Overall, I think the case looks good in a self contained way, although I'm a little concerned it will be loud just because there are so many fans. The problem is what case will work best in the cubby. It really comes down to whether or not the heat going out the back of the case is allowed to escape fast enough that the cubby itself doesn't build up positive pressure forcing the hot exhausted air forward.

I'd rather get no answer than an uniformed guess, but do you think liquid cooling would work in this build? It's not my first choice and I know almost nothing about it. Also, are case fan speeds typically monitored by the mobo for RPM relative to case heat or in this build are all fans passive and just running all the time?

Wow, another long winded post and I'm still not sure what to do. I wouldn't blame you if you abandoned the thread at this point so thanks for all the help so far whether or not you have anything else to add. I'm gonna go look for more cases with front intakes and then see if I can do anything to add more vents to my wall unit. The build itself looks good!

I don't think you will need liquid cooling for this build. Remember hot air rises and if there is enough ventilation holes on the top most of it should go upwards and not be forced back to the front. With the GD05 case you will also have about 8" from the back of the case to the back of the cabinet. The GPU will not spill any hot air into the case since it is a blower design. If you use a high efficiency PSU that will cut down on heat as well.