Gaming Computer Specs - whats best?

possom · Jan 25, 2005

Hi all,

I am looking at purchasing a new PC, I have narrowed it down to maybe one of the following. I am sure that they both have their pros and cons, but I would like to get your opinion on the performance of these two from a gaming perspective.

1. Intel Pentium 4 550 "LGA775 Prescott" 3.4GHz (800FSB)
North bridge:Intel 915, South bridge:ICH6-R
ATI Radeon X850 XT 256MB DDR3 (PCI-Express)

2. AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Winchester 90nm (Socket 939), 2000MHz HyperTransport technology
North bridge NVDIA nForce 3 Ultra Chipset
ATI Radeon X800 XT 256MB DDR3 (AGP)

TIA,
possom

TechMan · Jan 25, 2005

If he'll go with the 1st option, he'll sure worry about the heat.

endyen · Jan 25, 2005

There is the one thing that Wusy forgot. For the prescott to run in games, it requires water cooling, or better, to prevent throttling.

possom · Jan 25, 2005

Its not just for gaming, photo/audio media, DVDs etc... but I want it to be able to handle itself with HL2 games with ease. I thought if it can handle awesome games, then there is not much that it can't do for 'home use'.

I am leaning towards A64, since I have heard that A64 is better for games, and I will also have the choice of using WinXP 64... but the PCI-E is tempting.

Depending on the choice, I will probably get this for the P4:
http://www.uc-solutions.co.uk/asp/product.asp?recorprod=1&product=757&cat=131&ph=&keywords=&recor=1&SearchFor=&PT_ID=1
or this for AMD64:
http://www.uc-solutions.co.uk/asp/product.asp?recorprod=1&product=758&cat=131&ph=&keywords=&recor=1&SearchFor=&PT_ID=1
(or something similar). Cheers.

mozzartusm · Jan 25, 2005

One of my systems is a P4 550 socket 775. I am well pleased with it, but I think that you would be better off with the AMD. The P4 775 do have heat issues. The heat can be managed, but it takes some work and know-how to deal with it.

To save us both time, assume I know EVERYTHING :tongue:

Vapor · Jan 25, 2005

Here's my recommendation:

A64 3200+ S939 Winchester
Motherboard nForce4 Ultra Chipset (might have to wait a week or so...I recommend the DFI, ASUS, MSI and Gigabyte).
ATi X850XT PCIe

Might even be able to save a bit of money compared to both those systems if you are willing to OC the processor (which is why I recommended the 3200+).

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

peteroy · Jan 25, 2005

<A HREF="http://support.intel.com/support/processors/pentium4/sb/CS-008537.htm" target="_new">To avoid any heating problems make sure you get a thermally advantage case</A>

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Vapor · Jan 25, 2005

Yeah, sorry, shoulda given you some credit....I revised not because you can get the same performance out of a 3200+ or because the difference in required skillz is neglible, but rather because of price.

I'm assuming, of course, that both PCIe related parts (NF4U mobo and X850XT) are going to cost more than their AGP counterparts.

I'd also recommend TCCD, just a more specific brand for highish FSB OCing....G.Skill. I've been over at XS a lot and it seems that G.Skill really is the shiznit for high FSBs, while VXgold, BH-5 and EB are still best for sub 265FSB (and of course really need an experienced OCer).

With the G.Skill, you'll get a ton of headroom for OCing (making sure that doesn't slow you down) with great performance (and tight timings) at all clocks (but especially the higest clocks).

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

Vapor · Jan 25, 2005

OCZ VX Gold really are gems...but in a special way.

Winbond UTT was originally put into value ram modules on cheap PCB because they simply had no ability to run tight timings or OC particularly high. Then somebody had the bright idea of throwing tons of voltage at them (like 3.3+V) and they turned out to act very similar to BH-5. They would hit 250-270MHz with TIGHT timings (2-2-2-5 or TIGHTER at those speeds). Since they're so cheap, OCZ could spend a lot on the PCBs (turns out they didn't, they just use their usual high-quality PCBs) and get them to run, consistently and with reliability at those speeds (with those voltages, of course).

You can still find some UTT (though these aren't guaranteed to bring any miracles) on cheap-o TwinMOS memory for next to nothing.

As for VX Gold's place in the market, they're strictly for the über-enthusiast. It seems they will NOT clock above 280MHz no matter what you do (voltagewise or loosening the timings) and don't work well with P4s. They're really pecilular as loosening timings doesn't ever do anything for them (or any looser than 2-2-2-5) in terms of clockability. Best of all, they're relatively affordable, will be in long supply (most likely) and can run these timings easily in 2x512, much unlike BH-5.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

jammydodger · Jan 25, 2005

Vapor · Jan 25, 2005

The guy whom I bought my pair of cheap Buffalo from told me he's getting some OCZ VX and putting them on 4.0V using a DFI mobo.
At first I thought he was crazy, but after all the stuff I've read about those WInbond UTT I guess 3.8V is the minimum requirement for it to run tight timing over 250Mhz.

Hmmmmm, everything I've read says that only about 3.3V is needed to get to those levels and only about 3.5V to hit 265MHz. 3.8-4.0V really doesn't gain much (maybe an extra MHz or two....).

What do you mean by they don't work well with P4s?

They don't run the same tight timings (at all) and often can't clock as high. Some people have gotten away with 3-3-2-5 for timings at like 250MHz, but it won't go higher or tighter (at any clock). These seem to be a strictly A64 RAM (with MINOR success on AXPs).

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

Vapor · Jan 26, 2005

Unless the quality of VX has significantly changed since the first two batches, 3.8V is still above optimal. Even these mems, at a certain point, stop responding to extra voltage and start downclocking.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

Vapor · Jan 26, 2005

That would make sense why he needs 3.8V. As for the DFI mobos (or at least the new NF4 ones), YES, they can provide 4V. You just need to enable the 5V line off the PSU to power the RAM (done in BIOS). Early reports said that the MOSFETs got extremely hot while doing this, but newer boards seem to do this perfectly fine.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

possom · Jan 26, 2005

Wow, this thread has taken on new meaning... OCZ VX, TCCD, DFI Mobo... I assume you are talking about motherboards...

Cheers for the system recommendations fellas.

Vapor · Jan 26, 2005

Yeah, I'd say Wusy and I successfully hijacked this thread. :tongue:

Anyway, we were talking (mostly) about the various types of RAM that work particularly well with A64s, especially when voltage is applied. The DFI motherboard only came up because they're the first to come to the table with an A64 board with overclocking in mind.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

Vapor · Jan 26, 2005

The MOSFETs heat up cause there's actually MORE resistance since they run the 5V lane once beyond the 3.2V setting (more resistance, as you probably know, to get the 5V line down to 3.4V than to get the 3.3V down to 3.0V).

Which DFI mobo is your?

Don't have one, just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night (sorry, just had to do it). Actually, I just know a lot about it as I'm going to be upgrading midsummer and it doesn't look like NF4 will be getting any better than it. At this time, the only ones that have been released so far are to OCZ, G.Skill and other mem reps. They've all been SLi boards (same as Ultra with an extra 4 SATA ports).

Unless Abit comes out with a truly tremendous Fatal1ty board, people will go to DFI (just like Oskar Wu did

). The ATi Radeon Xpress 200 chipset seems to be superior so far (in terms of memory and at least equal in all else), but it's features and board support are likely to be rarer.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

TheRod · Jan 27, 2005

I do really don't understand why some suggested you to buy the Intel CPU. Gaming is the AMD stronghold. No P4 can beat AMD at gaming.

And for HL2 performance, check this article :

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2330

You'll be convinced that AMD is the way to go for gaming!

-
A7N8X / Sempron 2800+ <- Is this affecting my credibility?
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
Radeon 8500 128Megs @ C:275/M:290 <- It's enough for WoW!

possom · Jan 28, 2005

Cheers for that TheRod, very insightful... BTW, you need to upgrade

TheRod · Jan 28, 2005

I plan to upgrade later this year. Since I mostly play World Of WarCraft right now, I don't more that what I have. I heard that 1Gig of RAM make a difference. But right now the game is really smooth at 1280x1024 with my current rig! So, I'm not in an upgrade rush.

Here is what I plan to buy :

- nForce4 ULTRA or SLI based MB (Depend on price, right now there is no reason to not buy SLI based MB, the price difference in Canada is less than 10$ between ULTRA an SLI. I might consider ATI Xpress 200 MB if they are good and have a good pricing)
- Athlon 64 3000+ S939 (I'll overclock it)
- 2x512 Megs of good DDR400 (probably Corsair)
- GeForce 6600GT or Radeon X700 PRO (I would like to buy ATI, but in this price range nVidia have an edge right now in performance and the 6600 supports SM3.0, not useful today, but in the future it might extend the life of the card a couple of months!)
- Probably a new PSU (My current Antec 350Watts PSU might suffer from my CPU overclocking + GPU that take more power than my old 8500).

-
A7N8X / Sempron 2800+ <- Is this affecting my credibility?
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
Radeon 8500 128Megs @ C:275/M:290 <- It's enough for WoW!

TheRod · Jan 28, 2005

Nah, he only needs some new RAM.
That 8500 should last till X800XL becomes widely spread and for under $300.

I will not invest anymore money on my SocketA based system. I will get S939 + PCI-EXPRESS, to keep the rig for a long time.

I'm more than happy with the "Return On Investment" of my current SocketA system! It's time to warp to the next level!!!

I keep my PC for long time, I based my buying decision on this factor. If I buy X800XL for this RIG, the CPU will limit the performance of the system and I'll be stuck with an AGP card that will not fit in future systems...

-
A7N8X / Sempron 2800+ <- Is this affecting my credibility?
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
Radeon 8500 128Megs @ C:275/M:290 <- It's enough for WoW!

TheRod · Jan 29, 2005

Don't you want to overclock that damn thing to over 200Mhz FSB and get some 2.3Ghz+ free performance out of it by buying some quality TCCDs which can later be used on your upcoming A64 rig.(Unless that upcoming rig is still months away then I guess it's not worth it)

The truth is that Sempron 2800+ is a en XP 1800+ overclocked to 2.0GHz.
tbred @ 12x166MHz and 256K cache = Sempron 2800+.

-
A7N8X / Sempron 2800+ <- Is this affecting my credibility?
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
Radeon 8500 128Megs @ C:275/M:290 <- It's enough for WoW!

mozzartusm · Jan 29, 2005

Hey Wusy, I just hit 1040FSB on my 3.4 775!

To save us both time, assume I know EVERYTHING :tongue:

mozzartusm · Jan 29, 2005

17 is stock, but I was running it unlocked at 14. That was 667 with the DDR2 by Crucial. I havent started adjusting the voltages yet, this thing is going to hit 711 im sure. Running the memory at SPD, I jumped the CPU up to 3.9 on the second attempt. Again with no voltage adjustments. Its this Asus MOBO thats letting this CPU unleash its potential. Oh, and I am pushing this rig with Thermaltakes new 680W PSU.

To save us both time, assume I know EVERYTHING :tongue:

mozzartusm · Jan 29, 2005

The RAM is PC2 5300

To save us both time, assume I know EVERYTHING :tongue:

TheRod · Jan 29, 2005

You're a dumbarse Rod! Why couldn't you grab a 2500+ like the rest of us did for only a few dollars more???

You like feeling special don't you?

Like I said in an earlier post....

Actually I bought an XP 1800+ long time a go... And I now overclocked it at 2.0GHz (12x166MHz) which is the Sempron 2800+ specs...

I should modify my signature to reflect that... So, I'm not dumb! I would never buy a Sempron for SocketA anyway!

I'll go update my signature right now!

-
A7N8X / Sempron 2800+ <- Is this affecting my credibility?
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
Radeon 8500 128Megs @ C:275/M:290 <- It's enough for WoW!

Gaming Computer Specs - whats best?

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