/grumble downtime

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/grumble downtime /grumble too damn much /whine quality
assurance /growl pause 30 /bitch /moan
 
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On 17 Dec 2004 12:30:44 -0500, wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat)
wrotC:DRIVE_E

>
>
> /grumble downtime /grumble too damn much /whine quality
>assurance /growl pause 30 /bitch /moan

If this is EQ2, the numerous posts about people losing
quests/abilities when zoning might be the cause of it...and, if so,
I'm glad it's being looked at. Even if they don't know what's causing
it, taking down the servers when there's a bug which causes damage to
earned abilities strikes me as a Good Thing.

Which would you rather:
a)Play for hours and then find it all wiped by a bug?
b)Not play, but not lose anything?

If this is about EQ1, then, I have no comment. :)
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com
 

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Lizard wrote:
> On 17 Dec 2004 12:30:44 -0500, wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat)
> wrotC:DRIVE_E
>
>
>>
>> /grumble downtime /grumble too damn much /whine quality
>>assurance /growl pause 30 /bitch /moan
>
>
> If this is EQ2, the numerous posts about people losing
> quests/abilities when zoning might be the cause of it...and, if so,
> I'm glad it's being looked at. Even if they don't know what's causing
> it, taking down the servers when there's a bug which causes damage to
> earned abilities strikes me as a Good Thing.
>
> Which would you rather:
> a)Play for hours and then find it all wiped by a bug?
> b)Not play, but not lose anything?
>
> If this is about EQ1, then, I have no comment. :)
> *----------------------------------------------------*
> Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
> "I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
> once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
> http://www.mrlizard.com

The EQ1 servers were down for a patch to patch the patch as is usual
with patches... not that I am complaining or anything. That was already
handled very nicely above. :)

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In article <v1a6s0l7fq47iktmpsh6ou1f3mc4i02q94@4ax.com>,
Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com> wrote:
>If this is EQ2,

EQ2? What's that?
 
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the wharf rat wrote:
> /grumble downtime /grumble too damn much /whine quality
> assurance /growl pause 30 /bitch /moan
>
That was awful - you forgot to ask for your money back for the downtime,
and you also forgot the threats to cancel your account(s).

Must try harder ;-)

--
NickyD
 
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In article <32gnc5F3m2t4mU1@individual.net>,
NickyD <nicky_biker@Hotmail.invalid> wrote:
>Must try harder ;-)

You have gotten better about complaining about downtime(38)
 
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the wharf rat wrote:
> In article <32gnc5F3m2t4mU1@individual.net>,
> NickyD <nicky_biker@Hotmail.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Must try harder ;-)
>
>
> You have gotten better about complaining about downtime(38)
>
You have gotten better at patching(3).

(Actually posted by a dev after a week of constant patching that kept
going fubar in the early swg beta, once they got it all worked out)
 
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Michael <NOSPAM_Lin_mukai@comcast.net> wrote in news:icOdnSi9c7VUqV7cRVn-
uQ@comcast.com:

> Lizard wrote:
>> On 17 Dec 2004 12:30:44 -0500, wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat)
>> wrotC:DRIVE_E
>>
>>
>>>
>>> /grumble downtime /grumble too damn much /whine quality assurance
>>>/growl pause 30 /bitch /moan
>>
>>
>> If this is EQ2, the numerous posts about people losing
>> quests/abilities when zoning might be the cause of it...and, if so,
>> I'm glad it's being looked at. Even if they don't know what's causing
>> it, taking down the servers when there's a bug which causes damage to
>> earned abilities strikes me as a Good Thing.
>>
>> Which would you rather:
>> a)Play for hours and then find it all wiped by a bug?
>> b)Not play, but not lose anything?
>>
>> If this is about EQ1, then, I have no comment. :)
>
> The EQ1 servers were down for a patch to patch the patch as is usual
> with patches... not that I am complaining or anything. That was already
> handled very nicely above. :)
>

It's hardly the norm, but it does happen at times.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 69 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 18 Dwarven Shaman, 15 Scholar
 
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the wharf rat <wrat@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <v1a6s0l7fq47iktmpsh6ou1f3mc4i02q94@4ax.com>,
> Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com> wrote:
>>If this is EQ2,
>
> EQ2? What's that?

I don't know, as it seems my only choice is to play Wow! I mean, what
kind of flippin' fools deploy broken code to ALL of their God Damned
[and they clearly are] servers?!

--
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Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
 
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"Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> writes:
> I mean, what kind of flippin' fools deploy broken code to ALL of their
> God Damned [and they clearly are] servers?!

Well, I can understand how they have broken code (too many possible
situations to cover them all during Test), though I am often amazed
at just how basic some of the broken things are.

But as for rolling it out to all their servers, I think they're sort
of stuck with that situation. Can you imagine the uproar if, say,
they rolled it out to 2-3 servers first, and waited a couple days to
see what bugs turned up before putting it up on the rest? Players
on those servers would either be upset at the extra downtime, while
players on the other servers would be upset that there's new content
that other people are getting to explore first. (Heck, wasn't a
couple days all it took for the first 65 Berserker to appear? If
only some servers had berserkers available, the others would have
had players SCREAMING.)

Of course, there's also the logistics of having the patcher download
the new client without knowing yet which server you intend to connect
to.

I do admit I wonder what their patch process is like, that it takes
them 7 hours to install a patch to a patch to an update.

-- Don.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
-- See the a.g.e/EQ1 FAQ at http://www.iCynic.com/~don/EQ/age.faq.htm
--
-- Sukrasisx, Monk 51 on E. Marr Note: If you reply by mail,
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Don Woods <don-ns@icynic.com> wrote:
>
> But as for rolling it out to all their servers, I think they're sort
> of stuck with that situation. Can you imagine the uproar if, say,
> they rolled it out to 2-3 servers first, and waited a couple days to
> see what bugs turned up before putting it up on the rest? Players
> on those servers would either be upset at the extra downtime, while
> players on the other servers would be upset that there's new content
> that other people are getting to explore first. (Heck, wasn't a
> couple days all it took for the first 65 Berserker to appear? If
> only some servers had berserkers available, the others would have
> had players SCREAMING.)
>

I don't think so. They just roll it to a couple of servers at a time.
Wait up to 60 minutes and roll to a couple more. After all, the changes
should not be dramatic. If they had stuck to the model of players
attached to servers, it wouldn't be an issue what-so-ever, but they had
to centralize it and limit us to four [ok, that is another issue as
well].

> Of course, there's also the logistics of having the patcher download
> the new client without knowing yet which server you intend to connect
> to.

The fact is, there is a way to do this other than brute force, but
clearly, they use brute force.

>
> I do admit I wonder what their patch process is like, that it takes
> them 7 hours to install a patch to a patch to an update.
>

Clearly they have absolutely NO recovery plan. It WILL cost them money
as there are other places to play [other games] and if they develop a
reputation, it will end them IMHO. Having said that, I will still be
playing when they come back up ... I am still using my free month which
should probably be a free month and a day ... no request from me
required.


--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
 
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> Clearly they have absolutely NO recovery plan. It WILL cost them money
> as there are other places to play [other games] and if they develop a
> reputation, it will end them IMHO.

Naw I been playing eq1 since it came out of beta and they do this all the
time with eq1. We are all Lemmings we follow no matter what cliff they walk
off of.
 
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On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 20:56:36 -0500, "Fleebag of Toxx"
<ospam@adelphia.net> wrote:

>
>> Clearly they have absolutely NO recovery plan. It WILL cost them money
>> as there are other places to play [other games] and if they develop a
>> reputation, it will end them IMHO.
>
>Naw I been playing eq1 since it came out of beta and they do this all the
>time with eq1. We are all Lemmings we follow no matter what cliff they walk
>off of.

EQ has(had) the advantage of being one of the only 2 major players in
the market for a long time. By now, a lot of people are so rooted into
EQ that it's going to take a lot to get them to simply pack up and
leave. While some people will dump an MMO at the first hiccup, there
are a lot of people who hate change enough to suffer through the rough
spots.

--
Dark Tyger

Sympathy for the retailer:
http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html
"Door's to your left" -Gord
(I have no association with this site. Just thought it was funny as hell)

Protect free speech: http://stopfcc.com/
 

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In article <7whdmko5pw.fsf@ca.icynic.com>, don-ns@iCynic.com says...
> "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> writes:
> > I mean, what kind of flippin' fools deploy broken code to ALL of their
> > God Damned [and they clearly are] servers?!
>
> Well, I can understand how they have broken code (too many possible
> situations to cover them all during Test), though I am often amazed
> at just how basic some of the broken things are.
>
> But as for rolling it out to all their servers, I think they're sort
> of stuck with that situation. Can you imagine the uproar if, say,
> they rolled it out to 2-3 servers first, and waited a couple days to
> see what bugs turned up before putting it up on the rest?

Well.. EQ1 does have a test server for *precisely* that purpose. And the
people here who play on test, have routinely reported that they've
reported serious bugs which got rolled out to the rest of the servers
anyway.
 
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42 <nospam@nospam.com> writes:
> > But as for rolling it out to all their servers, I think they're sort
> > of stuck with that situation. Can you imagine the uproar if, say,
> > they rolled it out to 2-3 servers first, and waited a couple days to
> > see what bugs turned up before putting it up on the rest?
>
> Well.. EQ1 does have a test server for *precisely* that purpose. And the
> people here who play on test, have routinely reported that they've
> reported serious bugs which got rolled out to the rest of the servers
> anyway.

Yeah, I know, and I admit that that boggles me. I can understand if
some problems don't turn up in test, because the test servers have a
lot fewer players than the live servers, so even if something is
clearly broken it might be that nobody tries it in test. But when
problems DO get reported and the bugs are rolled out anyway, that's
just bizarre.

-- Don.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
-- See the a.g.e/EQ1 FAQ at http://www.iCynic.com/~don/EQ/age.faq.htm
--
-- Sukrasisx, Monk 51 on E. Marr Note: If you reply by mail,
-- Terrwini, Druid 38 on E. Marr I'll get to it sooner if you
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-- http://www.iCynic.com/~don
 
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Fleebag of Toxx <ospam@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> Clearly they have absolutely NO recovery plan. It WILL cost them money
>> as there are other places to play [other games] and if they develop a
>> reputation, it will end them IMHO.
>
> Naw I been playing eq1 since it came out of beta and they do this all the
> time with eq1. We are all Lemmings we follow no matter what cliff they walk
> off of.
>

There is no "we" in "me". Perhaps a tired old cliche ... but I won't
give a company money that let's me down with any regularity. Depending
on the duration of this FAILURE, I will likely write this off as a
fluke, but if it happens again anytime soon, I assure you, 100% that my
account will be closed before the servers come back up.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
 
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Don Woods <don-ns@icynic.com> wrote:
>
> Yeah, I know, and I admit that that boggles me. I can understand if
> some problems don't turn up in test, because the test servers have a
> lot fewer players than the live servers, so even if something is
> clearly broken it might be that nobody tries it in test. But when
> problems DO get reported and the bugs are rolled out anyway, that's
> just bizarre.
>

There is such thing as a "test plan". If they are using them and
instead are hot deploying fixes based upon developer blessing, than they
are engraving their own headstones. Their shard will be unreachable.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
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In article <41c390a3$0$58279$8046368a@newsreader.iphouse.net>,
Thomas T. Veldhouse <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote:
>fluke, but if it happens again anytime soon, I assure you, 100% that my
>account will be closed before the servers come back up.

You gonna cancel now or wait until next Tuesday?
 
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Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
>
> EQ has(had) the advantage of being one of the only 2 major players in
> the market for a long time. By now, a lot of people are so rooted into
> EQ that it's going to take a lot to get them to simply pack up and
> leave. While some people will dump an MMO at the first hiccup, there
> are a lot of people who hate change enough to suffer through the rough
> spots.
>

Well, for SOE's sake, I hope you are right.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
 

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Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote:
>
>>EQ has(had) the advantage of being one of the only 2 major players in
>>the market for a long time. By now, a lot of people are so rooted into
>>EQ that it's going to take a lot to get them to simply pack up and
>>leave. While some people will dump an MMO at the first hiccup, there
>>are a lot of people who hate change enough to suffer through the rough
>>spots.
>>
>
>
> Well, for SOE's sake, I hope you are right.
>

Oh, I think he is. I have heard many talk about how they feel they have
a big investment in their EQ characters and in terms of time spent on
them, I bet they do. I know an arguement can be made about whether time
into characters in an MMORPG ought to be considered an investment of not
but it is irrelevant. They feel this way and that is enough for them to
choose to stay where they are. Look at UO in its eighth year now.
Another example would be those who are still playing Asheron's Call and
much more surprisingly those that remain with Asheron's Call 2.

Sure, EQ will lose players to other games given how time consuming these
games are but they are starting with such a large player base that I
would predict they will still have servers up and be releasing
expansions years from now.

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the wharf rat <wrat@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <41c390a3$0$58279$8046368a@newsreader.iphouse.net>,
> Thomas T. Veldhouse <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>fluke, but if it happens again anytime soon, I assure you, 100% that my
>>account will be closed before the servers come back up.
>
> You gonna cancel now or wait until next Tuesday?
>

It doesn't make any difference unless my free month is about up. So, I
will wait.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
 
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"Don Woods" <don-ns@iCynic.com> wrote in message
news:7whdmko5pw.fsf@ca.icynic.com...

> I do admit I wonder what their patch process is like, that it takes
> them 7 hours to install a patch to a patch to an update.
>

Patch process has been quite good actually - I have been kicked off of
trading overnight but this is the first time it has intefered with gameplay.
The majority of the patches have only taken an hour then it's game as usual.

After playing (and still playing EQ1) I am pretty amazed that the patches
have been so short, and that this is the first major stuff up.

Gives me a bit of time to read the forum and plan our next trip into
Antonica though =)


--
*Pamela*
eq2.simonette.najena
eq2.floriana.najena
eq1.agapanthus.bristlebane
 

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"Pamela Carlton" <lambchop@whocareswhere.com> wrote in message
news:41c3bd67@duster.adelaide.on.net...
>
> "Don Woods" <don-ns@iCynic.com> wrote in message
> news:7whdmko5pw.fsf@ca.icynic.com...
>
>> I do admit I wonder what their patch process is like, that it takes
>> them 7 hours to install a patch to a patch to an update.
>>
>
> Patch process has been quite good actually - I have been kicked off of
> trading overnight but this is the first time it has intefered with
> gameplay.
> The majority of the patches have only taken an hour then it's game as
> usual.
>
> After playing (and still playing EQ1) I am pretty amazed that the patches
> have been so short, and that this is the first major stuff up.
>
> Gives me a bit of time to read the forum and plan our next trip into
> Antonica though =)
>
>
Except the forums are down as well, hmm maybe they don't want the negative
feedback.

Also, there is a test server for a reason, they should be using it to test
the patches before they rollout. It seems that they are not, yet anyway.
 
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Don Woods <don-ns@iCynic.com> wrote in news:7whdmko5pw.fsf@ca.icynic.com:

> "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> writes:
>> I mean, what kind of flippin' fools deploy broken code to ALL of their
>> God Damned [and they clearly are] servers?!
>
> Well, I can understand how they have broken code (too many possible
> situations to cover them all during Test), though I am often amazed
> at just how basic some of the broken things are.

That's what the test server is supposed to be used for...

Of course, if it's anything like EQ1, then SoE often just ignores bug
reports from the players on test, and rolls in the changes anyway.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 69 seasons

On Steamfont
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On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 01:55:36 GMT, Don Woods <don-ns@iCynic.com>
wrotC:DRIVE_E

>But when
>problems DO get reported and the bugs are rolled out anyway, that's
>just bizarre.

Beta is a form of triage. No game of this nature will ever be released
bug-free. It's the job of the developers and managers to decide when a
product is "good enough".

I assure you, every single program you buy commercially was released
containing known bugs. In the case of complex programs like Office or
Windows, hundreds to thousands of them.
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com
 

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