GT300- Next generation Nvidia 40nm chip yields are fine

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@Zirbmonkey i was only saying that it is actually fair to go up against the GTX295 since it is top of the the line, for a single card to be as good at it is amazing, though ati was trying to beat it, and at the price point they did (aka $120 cheaper)

and yet the 5870 could still take performance crown with better drivers and possibly using dx11 (instead of 9 or 10)
 
I think Nvdia has a surprise cause it would be embarrassing for them to launch anything inferior to what AMD/ATI has at the moment. If Nvdia's next-gen GPU's dont stack up as well as the 5xxx series then of course who would even think of purchasing anything Nvidia? I really like what AMD has to offer right now and at those prices It's a steal...

I don't understand why many argue over what GPU is better... Why compare an old GPU to something that just came out? Compare the 5xxx series to 3xx series later on and then you can say who is better/worse......
 
Selling a 4870 at this moment would be pretty hard unless the price is low for a 2nd hand gfx first of all. And the money he will get he need to add much more money for a new 5870. So i dont see any reason selling his card to buy a 5870 that doesnt justify it coz a 4870xfire will be on par if not better than a 5870 (except in dx11 games). The only backward of getting another 4870 imo is the lack of dx11 games but we know that 10.1 can run dx11 just not in dx11 mode that is. And u may say that in dx11 games 5870 will yield higher framerate and i agree with u. But see the actual number of framerates. Except in crysis and stalker:CS in 1920 resolution 4870xfire is going to get around 50fps. So maybe in dx11 games if we think it is 56 fps that is just to brag about. Those 6fps more doesnt make any real difference that we can notice just u can brag that u r getting 6 more fps thats all. So i think getting another 4870 wont hurt at all. Maybe if u really want to go for dx11 then sell ur 4870 and shoot for the closet one like 5770 which is suppose to be as powerful as a 4890 and then later when u have money buy another 5770 to xfire.

But thats all my opinion. Every person has different one.
 


Ok one major flaw in your argument is this.

It's only been 3 days since the 5-series was released. What happens when it becomes 3 months? 3 months later and still no g300?

Wait 6 months on g300? Is that then a fair comparison? You know in 6 months time Nvidia could have reversed engineered the 5-series and shoved on physx etc, then just said 'here is our original g300, a little late but look at how amazing it is'.

That is why you compare what is. Not what may be. Especially stupid is comparing what may be based on a couple of things Fuad has written. If you had any sense at all, you'd be thinking along the lines that Nvidia is tanking, big time, and there is no magical g300 about to save them.
 
I dont think Nvidia has GT300 series in their sack. Because if they did have it i think they would atleast leak some of the pics or specs or even benchies to atleast hold back some people to see how GT300 is going to be and for an expected price fall(maybe)
 
Well I guess everyone has thier own opinions....

You are comparing old tech to something that just came out. Once the 5870x2 comes out then you guys will start up ANOTHER stupid argument stating that the 5870x2 pwned the 295 and so-forth..... The real comparison will be both next-gen brands due to the fact that they will be much less apart than the 2xx series vs. the 5xxx series. If it was the other way around you would be telling me "wait till the 5xxx series comes out!!" Same argument, same BS.... IMO if you have a 5870 and you are happy about it, specially price-wise, then good for you.... But I see no point in arguing over what is "faster", or my 5870 is quiet'errrrr then your loud 295, etc...

 
just look the developers that use nvidia logo in games: the way its meant to be played.
Click to expand...
Yes, and "Apple reinvents the phone"

It's called marketing, and if you don't ignore it then you're showing no more intelligence than the ignorant consumer who buys their computer in Walmart.
 
First of all, anyone rejoicing at the nV statement that they just taped out earlier this month, you do realize that that is the end of the DESIGN phase, not production, and so they have to do an A0 test spin A1 production spin [which may be the same as the A0 spin] before they start ramping up production for a launch. This late in the game, the only thing they will have prior to Xmas is a paper-launch like the GTX295, hoping people will hold off their Xmas purchase on the hope something comes afterwards. If nVidia had something now, they would show it, behind closed doors, but they would be able to live demo it like ATi did.

Also the fact that they are confirming a tape-out now means either the design process was slow (they had all this time to focus on the G300, no major design changes since the G80), or their first design failed to produce viable chips like Charlie originally said. If test wafers wielded only a handful of chips at the end of the summer you would tweak the design, and re-tape-out and then hope the latest spin is more succesful. But they are still a very long way away from production, and then after getting the chips they have to give them to the AIBs to make the cards, and then those have to shuip them to the stores. It's going to be a while folks.

As for the X>Y thing, it's definitely and easier equation if you make it chip vs chip, where the RV870 > G2xx , now we wait for the G3xx vs RVxx equation, at which time I'm sure the GTX295 boosters will also want to make that comparison too, and not the X2 vs single card comparison.

For now though, the main thing is that the G300 even if it taped out a week or two ago, doesn't even exist as a functioning card yet, just barely a chip, IF nV's lucky and very fast, likely the first spin of that tape out hasn't been cut yet, so don't count your chicken yet boys.
 


Actually not quite, the R9700 and GF8800 pretty much held top spot foryears, you got improved clocks for them, but little else, and they never got nocked off by the competition, just by themselves.
 


I'm, actually surprised they didn't do the -nomoviestartup mod to avoid that annoying and in this case embarassing intro.

Or better yet you can replace the intro with another IHV, UT players have been doing that for a long time even changing the armour on the intro character in UT2K4 to and ATi one. Personally I prefer just getting rid of them: I wanna play, not watch intros.

But it's funny they didn't do that in this case.
 
The reason why people compare 5870 with gtx295 even though 5870 is a new tech is just because 295 is(was) the fastest card to be found in the universe. Why do u think when a card release people still wants to see a benchmark of crysis with that card? there's lots of other games and high quality games out there after crysis, crysis is a very old game but still why people is so curious about the crysis benchmark? Because crysis is the most demanding game and can chew any gpu out there when at the highest settings with high resolutions. And people know if crysis run at highest settings with good framerate then most of the other games out there pretty much will run at highest settings with VERY GOOD framerates(like 60+fps). Thats the perception of people or consumer. Trying to compare with the best so they have a rough idea where the card stands. If somehow the 7950gx2 were better than gtx295 people would compare the 5870 with 7950gx2.. so its not about old tech its about how the card stands in contrast to the best. U will see people will forget about GTX295 as soon as nvidia come up with a faster card than the 295-be it single card solution, dual card or tripple card solution doesnt matter.

But yes it would be unfair to compare older tech with newer tech and also it would be unfair to compare a single gpu with dual gpu solution.

One thing i want to point out that it is not really very much misleading comparing 5870 to gtx295 because 295 reflects how much faster the next gen nvidia cards will be. As u see the 9800gx2 is older than the gtx280 but that doesnt mean it's performance is far lower than gtx280. its on par with 280. And when comparing to 260 that is still newer than 9800gx2 its actualy slower than that.same thing i want to say about 9800gtx vs 8800ultra. So the next gen cards doesnt mean that it will be always far faster than the today's BEST card. Yes it will be faster but not really that much faster. Same thing goes to 5870 itself with 4870x2. the 4870x2 although being older gen is not really much lower in performance with 5870. u get the idea :)
 
Am I missing something here?
Where did ATI say they were going after the 295?
Ever?
Maybe some here thought this?

When comparing cards, theres 3 ways to do so.
1.
Price
2.
Performance
3.
Makeup, or, 1 core vs 2. This is valid as well, as many people simply wont deal with multi core gpus, and the extra monies paid for the lessor perf, plus any issues

Now, having said that, we know the 5870 is so close to the 295, it exceded in my eyes the rumor mill, which was between a 4870x2 and a 295, where its actually a lil closer to the 295 at this point than Id thought itd be.
Costs? Itll settle in at 350$ US, great pricing, and the 295 doesnt really have a over 400$ value AFAIC, since its older, has dual core issues, doesnt have the new DX abilities, and the driver extras have been squeezed out of it already.

So, now we wait? for the G300 to come, and having nVidia downplaying DX11, the amount of games etc, playing up physx and CUDA, it is just not compelling, but a new card is, but where is it?
If its a killer design, perf and brings all sorts of new abilities great, but again, where is it?
nVidia isnt just sitting waiting for alot of potential buyers to just hold on til we have our drivers tweaked, as FUaD mentioned in one of his articles, thats just B$.
Nor are they waiting for the 5870 to show its abilities, so they can tweak it as theyd like either.
So again, where is it?
 


What?!! Mommy said my Wallymart computer was the bestest ever!
 


it will cost $600 if it defeat 5800 series easy. People if you are in market these days to buy 5870 than go and buy if you are not than stay and wait to see what Nv has to offer. I think its better to stay and wait from 2 reasons:

1. There is no any real dx 11 game so we cant compare 5870 in dx 11 yet. When i say real i dont mean on dx 10 game with some dx 11 feauters that you will hard notice ( just like bioshock dx 9 game with some dx 10 features ).

2. Price will drop in few months and when Nv gt 300 appears it will bring price wars and thats very good for us consumers.

 


interesting, i don't think the original 4870X2 vs GTX295 charts showed this though (could be wrong)
are you thinking driver improvement
 
it will cost $600 if it defeat 5800 series easy. People if you are in market these days to buy 5870 than go and buy if you are not than stay and wait to see what Nv has to offer. I think its better to stay and wait from 2 reasons:

1. There is no any real dx 11 game so we cant compare 5870 in dx 11 yet. When i say real i dont mean on dx 10 game with some dx 11 feauters that you will hard notice ( just like bioshock dx 9 game with some dx 10 features ).

2. Price will drop in few months and when Nv gt 300 appears it will bring price wars and thats very good for us consumers.
Click to expand...

1) we just have to wait for dx11 games to come out (there is a short list that is coming out before Q1 2010 or shortly there after)

2) maybe price will increase (ATI usually doesn't do this too much), it depends on how strong the G300 really is, if it turns out like an ATI HD2XXX series then don't expect the ATI prices to drop

since we have next to no info on the G300, its hard to say how good it is going to be
 

Didnt the 9.8 drivers offer huge gains? The cards werent that far apart anyways, add these gains, and who knows?
Unfortunately, ATI didnt make a huge fuss and demand every site out there do a biggy baddy badaboomish new review with these drivers, and it may be showing up now in these tests
 


i forgot about the gains in the 9.8 driver release, i guess that would close the gap (or make the 4870X2 better)
 
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