High-End personal Workstation Guidance

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Ok let's start this from the ground up.
Budget: MAX 2500$ excluding peripherals
I'm going to use it mainly for HighRez Photoshop, and LowRez Painter. Surely going to play some games too.
As I wrote, I was planning on waiting for Sandy "Re-release", but after reading this thread and some more, I might just go for a X58 build and see what I do next in 2 years with Ivy Bridge. As of now, the only part I have is my monitor, which is a Dell UltraSharp u2410. I should buy another one soonish...

WHAT SHOULD I DO ? Oh and this won't be my first build, but I'm pretty new to all the workstation stuff (more like mini-workstation but anyway, you know what I mean)
😀
 
You got a big budget dude! Much more then you need for a machine to do hi res photoshop unless your putting the monitors in that budget too. If you are then you have/had the same budget as me. look at my build and change it to your liking if you can find anything to change. Smaller psu probably. ANY 1366 rig is going to be quicker then you can move for those tasks. AT a point you become the bottle neck in the production lol. when i was working in a video game/ animation studio last year i had the opportunity to work on one of the render pro machines by BOXX (duel quad core, quadro, with more ram then even necessary lol) and it was so fast that when i would click stuff i wouldn't even realize it would come up so i would be sitting there waiting for a sec before i even realized it came up.
The point is that the tasks your looking at doing are not super heavy, depending on what games you play they might stress your comp more then your production work.
I did my absolute best to maximize performance for money with my build and i would do very little different. I over killed on the PSU by a lot but if i sli later the step down of the same PSU would not have cut it.

Recommend
Lancool K62
i7 950
hyper 212 + with extra fan and the adapter to hook 2 pwm fans up to one header
mobo of your choice, sabertooth is fine even though its ugly JK(personally love my rampage III formula even though my first one died)
12 gb of ram recommend mushkin Cas 7 or less in 3 or 6 dimm config (just check with the mobo manufacturer and ram manufacturer to verify it will work at rated speed if its not listed... or look around at other builds)
GTX 570woud be my choice for video card. Definitely not a qudro for your application.

I think mine came to about 1425 with 100 in amazon gif cards applied
 
NOX ...

You do not have a clue and you make just enough sense, to be seriously dangerous.

You are NOT experienced and your lack of practical knowledgeis blantantly obvious to any mature technician ...

Your advice is bad to worse and it is my opinion that anyone who would listen to you deserves the consequences of their own stupidity.

You are not an expert ... You are a consumer who is blurting lame opinions based on half baked logic.

Your logic is flawed ... Your "experience is OBVIOUSLY VERY LIMITED" and I think that it is time for you to run along and frag some more zombies.

I have ALREADY received several private messages, from other SENIOR and COMPETENT technicians, complaining about your bad advice and OT "contributions" ...

Do us all a big favor, and start your OWN thread ... Maybe in the Gaming Forum.

It is not my desire to be harsh ... But I will make an exception, in your case ...

Trust me, when I say, you do not have 10% of the knowledge OR the experience, to be telling ANYBODY else, how to spend your money ....

So I will be direct ... TAKE A HIKE !

.
 


Let me add my own 2 cents in here. As a businessman, I was especially disgusted by this advice:



If you want to push your cpu or whatever beyond what the manufacturer's clearly stated voltage limits are, that's fine, there is NOTHING wrong with that. But YOU must accept responsibility! Why should Newegg, or Amazon, of the poor schmuck working 12 hours a day trying to keep the doors open in his local computer business pay for YOUR foolishness? What you were advising is simply not ethical. It ain't right. And I, for one, have had enough of what ain't right.

This thread is for discussing the building of computers specifically designed for use as workstations. Up to this point it has been remarkably free from the "fan-boy" over-exuberance that is so typical of the gamer threads. Let's keep it that way or else it will disintegrate. And that would be a shame.
 
It just got heavy in here, Getting the last few parts today. Ill be putting her together tonight, i'll be sure to let you guys know how it goes. Is it cool if i ask a few questions here if I don't find my answers in the other sections of the forums?

Really appreciate all the help you guys have given me. Hope i can return the favor some time to someone else.

F1rst i'll be sure to let you know how my build is running with Photoshop and my higher end rendering software. Maybe it will help you out with deciding on parts. Give me the weekend and i should be able to at least tell you if there are any issues with any slowdown.
 


I guess I should go along those lines ?
Oh and thanks ryvin 😀
 


That seems to be the consensus.

As far as the brand of video card, pay attention to the warranty. I think some even have lifetime warranties. I have talked very recently to both PNY and EVGA technical support concerning video card issues and I can say from experience they are both excellent. I cannot say that about Gigabyte. I was VERY disappointed with them. But that was a motherboard issue. Turned out it wasn't the MB after all, but it taught me Gigabyte's support is not good. There IS a Gigabyte technical forum, however, and they are pretty helpful.

For your budget, you should be able to get what you need PLUS that other Ultrasharp you were talking about. Should put you in hog heaven.


 
Following Alvin's "Build", here's what I have in mind for now:

i7 950

EVGA GTX570 (Not sur between the 570 and the 560ti, PS and Painter performance is really my top priority, so if I could spend that 100$ on something else, I would.)

12GB of Memory (I just can't find any great DIMMs, from what I understand, RAM is one of the most important things when it comes to PS and Painter so I don't care if it costs a lot)

Hyper 212+

Mass Storage (I currently building a library a photos for my design, so I need some space for it. Is 1TB enough ? Should I plan to RAID ? What about a Scratch Disc for Photoshop ?

Boot SSD (Crucial C300 or else ? Why ?)

Corsair PSU

Some will say that I have a high budget for what I intend to do, but I only want a PC that works great. I don't wanna wait for 10 min while my concept is saving, etc. If it cost less than 2000-2500, than it's fine with me. If 2500 is just what I need, it's fine with me too.

Thanks !

 
Guys ... I do not want to scare ANYbody away ... but this is not an "opinion poll thread".

... Feel free ... Ask away ... So long as there is SOME benefit to the Professional Graphics (ACAD/NLE/DAW/CS5) crowd ... key words are "PRO and WS" ... kay?

... If you are doubting the larger PROFESSIONAL (WS) community would benefit from some protracted "rat-hole" diversion ... JUST SEND ME A PRIVATE MESSAGE !

And ... Speaking of PMs ... Here is a private build (latest spec) that I am currently engaged in. ... I thought that the comments, at the end, are specifically appropriate to this (current) conversation ... so ... read it all (please) ... this applies, to ALL.
****************************************************
In his openneng post, this client expresses a desire to continue sophisticated photo-compositing and to expand into CS5/Premiere Video and associated motion graphics ...
... He includes a link to his very serious and professional buisiness website ... This guy is "for real" ... Making it happen ! ... He has given a budget of $2,500, but we have not nailed down if he wants monitor(s) in that build ... Illy will note my warning about dissimilar REZ dual displays,on the FERMIs. You will also note that I am now recommending the SabreTooth Mobo, that Puff brought us, just a few days ago ... SWEET !
*****************************************************
~~~ SNIP ~~~ PASTE ~~~
************************

(some jams, to browse by ... CRANK IT ! )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBClImpnfAg
********************************************
So Far: Compute Core:
*********************

ASUS Sabertooth X58 LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131665
($190 USD)

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 12GB (3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9T-12GBRL
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231356
($135 USD)
*** NOTE *** Enter timings manually ! ... Set Voltage to 1.6Volts ***

COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus RR-B10-212P-G1 "Heatpipe Direct Contact" Long Life Sleeve 120mm CPU Cooler Compatible Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065&cm_re=hyper_212%2b-_-35-103-065-_-Product
($30 USD) *** comes w/good paste & bracket for 2nd (push-pull) fan **

>>> This is the MATCHING 2nd fan (RPM/CFM) for reliable push-pull <<
COOLER MASTER R4-BMBS-20PK-R0 Blade Master 120mm Case Fan
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103069&cm_re=coolermaster_120mm_fan-_-35-103-069-_-Product
($12 USD)

*************************
Graphics Compute Subsystem (recommendations are SPECIFIC ! ).
*************************

There are many options ... depends on budget and number of displays.
... This is my druthers (preferred choice), for a Dual Display System.
*** NOTE !!! IMPORTANT !!! BOTH DISPLAYS MUST BE IDENTICAL REZ !

PNY VCGGTX570XPB GeForce GTX 570 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133370&Tpk=pny%20570
($350 USD ... OUCH ! )

>>> Lesser options and upgrade paths are available ... also more mons.
... Do not substitute any other parts, than the EXACT sub-model that I recommend, or I will not certify the build ... deviate, at your own peril !.

******************
Storage Sub-System - Professional Speed and data integrity come at a
higher cost ... We need to chat, about your "project/workflow bandwidth"
*BEFORE* we can decide upon a storage solution (tho, budget will dictate).

... and ... until we have your storage and graphics "nailed down" ...
... We cannot calculate your current and future system power reqs.

...

*** What Next ??? ***

I need to know what codecs and capture formats you are working with ... broken down to a number of video streams at a certain bit density (per second).

I need to know what sorts of cameras (exact models/formats?) you are likely to be working with.

I need to know how complex your compositing and rotoscoping and motion graphics will be ... how many layers? ... what rez ? ... Compression ?

I need to know how many cameras and/or "tracks" you will max-out at.

I need to know what sorts of output renders (bits/sec) that you will be generating.

I need to know how many minutes of completed content you will generate, each month.

... Any other special priorities ? ... requirements ?

... Just ... in your own words ... What do you see yourself doing, with this rig, over the next 4 years ? ... What about "RIGHT NOW"?

Try to seperate your NEEDS from your wants ... and by "urgency".

... I'll check in, fairly soon ...

*****************************************************


*********** ~~~ SINP-SNIP . . . ~~~ PASTE ~~~ *************

 
Thanks for sharing the email Alvin. I would like to know why did you choose the PNY over the EVGA ? PNY seems to have some quality problem with the GTX 570. (Well, from what you can read from the newegg reviews...:/)
 


Reason number one ... Who makes Quadro WS cards ?

Reason number two ... Notice that "PB" (sub modell code) at the end of the part# ?

... I have been seeing that sub-model code, in graphics workstation specific educational institution contracts, since the 9800GT(E)PB models ...
... These are intended for video editing labs, at colleges and HS edit labs, etc.

Reason Three: I went and read all those "bad" reviews, that you mentionned ... Are you intending to waste my time ? ... I saw nothing but naiive, noobish complaints from the FEW happy fan-boi gamers that had "way too much time" to chime in and run their snotty mouths ... READ THOSE REVIEWS AGAIN !!! Two of them were by the same guy ! (easy to tell!).

Trust me ... The PNY PBs are (almost ALLways) the best choice, for a cost/concious Graphics/Edit WS build.

... Next choice is Sapphire ... Next is MSI/EVGA/ASUS/GIGABYTE ... forget the rest (in almost all cases).

PNY"PB" or Sapphire (not VaporX) ... you should be golden.

... Might it come DOA? ... Damaged ? ... Shure ... and they will fix it and, if you are a noob gamer that abused the card ... they will treat you like crap.

... If you are a game-boi ... Get an EVGA "Classifed" Mobo and three EVGA FERMIS ... yay !!! woo-woo- shinier water and dirtier bricks ... ... at frame rates (and rez) that are twice our ability to perceive ! .. woo!-woo!.

 
A little unfinished business ...

Great Theater and Music Cans ...
(Based on the Industrial Standard MDR-7506 elements)
.
(Those "other, super expensive" cans are better than what most engineers use to create professionally mastered digital studio content).

SONY - Studio Monitor Series Headphones (MDR-V6) $80 USD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826159110&cm_re=sony_headphones_mdr-_-26-159-110-_-Product

And These are recommended, for (even) larger rooms ... (2.0, no woofer required ! )

KRK Systems RP6G2 Rokit G2 Powered Studio Monitor - 6 Inch, 100 Watts
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882280002&cm_re=rokit-_-82-280-002-_-Product

http://www.krksys.com/index.php

These cost $200 for each speaker (no amplifier req'd! ... With a 1/8" stereo adapter, can plug DIRECTLY into your iPod, PC, Mixer, aux-out ... tape-out ... etc.).

... I have the bass pulled WAY down, both on my PC and on my Output mixer ...
... My neighbors STILL complain !!

There, Ya go.


 
Thanks for controlling this thread Alvin and Illy. This thread should be much longer lived without the extra chatter. Everyone please keep in mind, it's 10 pages long so far. Redundancy will kill anyone from reading it and gaining the great knowledge base that is feeding its worth. There is plenty of redundancy already, not excluding my own faults, however just spec'ing builds that are similar to what's been preached about and asking the same questions that have been discussed will surely lead this thread from immortality quicker than striking Achilles' heel. No one wants to be the heel of Achilles' do they?

-puff
 


Well ... I am doing one private build, ATM, and have two more clients "on hold" ... came over, from this thread ... The PROS seem to get it.

I do appreciate enthusiasm ... but I do NOT tolerate lame opinions and shoddy advice ... too much money ... professional careers, at stake.

I do make mistakes, but they are usually "educated ones" (mitigated fallout).

i am very grateful, for Illy and Puff (Alphabetical order) ... for different reasons ... but it all seems to be working to the customer's benefit. (yay).

.
 


Very good point. I think you're absolutely right.

One thing I would like to see is some kind of testing results from all of these systems that are being built. Each one seems to be built for a pretty specific purpose. Mine, for instance was intended almost solely for 3ds Max. F1 wants his for Photoshop, etc. It would be nice to get all this categorized somehow. I'm not talking about benchmarking. I think that's pretty useless. I know it was TOTALLY useless for our machine. It was VERY un-impressive on all benchmarks, but ran 3ds Max GREAT. That makes it subjective and difficult, I know. But it would be nice to have something documented. For instance, if somebody wanted to know which is better for 3ds Max, a Quadro 4000, or a GTX 580? We know the answer is the GTX 580.

I'm not sure how to do it, but seems like it would be a valuable resource.
 


I have an idea. The system you are considering is pretty similar to the one we just built. If you have a sample of a file, we could try it out on our machine and that would give you a good idea of what you're looking at performance wise.

 
[:bilbat:5] WOW, Illy ... you are WAY too kind ... shooooo-weee !! [:bilbat:5]

The research and testing, that you have provided to (me/us) is invaluable ... this is a moving target and (with the new FERMIs + Quadros + new OS and new versions of CSx + 64-bit pro-apps) ... we all have more than enough to "chew upon" ... I am SO glad that you are here !! ... THANKS !

... and, if ALL that was not enough ... we have "The Sandy Bridge Confusion", just totally pulling against us.

.

 
Here is my most recent response to "f1rst", who has taken his build "private", with me ...
... ANY SORT OF PRACTICAL ELUCIDATION WOULD BE MOST WELCOME !!!
***********************************************************

~~~ SNIP ~~~ PASTE ~~~

Well ... your reqs and hopes are stiff enough that I *could* spend $5K (of your money) to totally fulfill (to the ~ambiguous letter), your wildest "cream dream" ... but ... let's just not go there (even if we could).

Half of that "cream-puff" budget would have gone to one (or two) really nice display(s).

More practically ... we should go with two different monitors and two different gpu cards ... one set (display+GPU card), as a primary graphics "inspection monitor", and the other set, as a windows multi-tasking desk-top, for media bins and tool-bars, etc.

I am troubled, tho ... because the FERMIs have not been out long enough for me to know if they play as well (with mix and match, multi-rez layouts) as the previous generations of gForce/Quadros did ... There have been a few disturbing limitastions and some of those are vague (to me) at best ...
... it used to be the case that you could add any number of any type of nVidia card, in a system, and Windows would recognize and combine all of them into a number of fairly flexible layouts ... up to 8 monitors (2x per card) ... you could mix quadros with geForce, etc. ... and Dual link mons count as TWO displays (duh).

... So ... I am thinking (maybe?) a GTX560ti plus a GT240 1GB (newer fab process).

Though I cannot *absolutely* certify this config (at this moment) ... I am sure enough (that it *should* work great), that *I* (if it were *me*) ... That I would just order BOTH cards and see if they work (as intended). ... and I would just eat the re-stock fee, if the config fails.
.... Obviously, I cannot even suggest that YOU do so ... but ... IF you insist !?

... Monitors are gonna be fun (in a bad way) to shop ... most of the good ones would require a second mortgage !

... We will work something out ... you are going to need to tell me EXACTLY what hw/sw is included in an EXACT budget, if you want this discourse to be productive and efficient.

... Think really hard, on these issues ... I'm standing by.


 

I asked this very question some time ago over at the official Nvidia forum and was told by the Administrator that there is no problem doing this. With a GTXxxx, you can mix and match any Nvidia card at least as far back as the 8800GT.


 
MMMOST impressive (I hope that holds, for the 460s, too).

... SO ... to get that other thing, cleared up ... DO *ALL* FERMIs have an issue running two displays, of DISSIMILAR REZ, on the SAME (single) FERMI GPU CARD ???

... Also ... Illya ... While we have your attention ...

Which would YOU choose, for a budget ws, with a NICE monitor, and a "normal" one ??

1) Two 460s ??
... or ...
2) A 560ti + a GT240 ??

... I am thinking the costs would not be that different ? ... Hmmmmm ....


With the 560+240, you could chuck the 240, and upgrade to a 2nd 560 ?

... Or ... just run, with two 460s ... and do not look back.

... I guess a gamer would surely go for the 460s (hardware SLI).

. ... Hmmmmmm .
 


I would chose the 560ti + GT240 because of the way I would use it. The second monitor would only be for used for tool bars, etc. I don't think it's too hard to figure out. One just has to decide exactly how it's going to be used, plus maybe just how much gaming use will it see and how important is that compared to the "money" usage?
 
I agree ... you would have the option to (much later), Go with a second 560ti, ... OR ... to leap-frog to the "next-new-thing", and relegate the 560 to Side-Car (2nd Fiddle).

560+240 would prolly be cooler, quieter ... suck less juice ... too.

... And ... the GT240(1GB) sure ain't no slouch, for media at std. rez.

... Could even hang a 3rd "normal rez" display, off of a GT240(1GB) ...
... This would expand the media time-line and tool tabs, etc.
.
... REAL ESTATE, for the time-line and for bins and effects lists ...
... is there EVER enough ??


.
 


One thing that seems important, at least to me because for some reason I'm fascinated by it, is that for anyone who is considering using Octane Render, they all must be CUDA cards, and, the ultimate size of the object being loaded is totally dependent on the GPU memory size of the SMALLEST video card - they don't total up. Whichever is the card with the smallest amount of memory is the one that determines the maximum size of the object you can load.

So, at least for rendering, keep this in mind.
 
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