I see absolutely no reason to go Intel now

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VIA has also hurt my reputation as a seller.
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Oh do I hear what your saying on this one. I so wish I never built any KT133 systems. I pride myself in being able to solve any issue and in giving people a better system/support than any of the big boys. Hence I have many repeat customers who once owned Dell's or Gateways and are thrilled with my systems and support. And their word of mouth is why I am able to keep doing what i love so much. But I tell you, those KT133's always seem to come back and I have found myself upgrading some peoples computers at or below cost because i am so tired of the hours spent troubleshooting Via, and the fact that it blemishes a near perfect record. :smile: I have had very good luck with KT333 & 400, but still not nearly as satified with them as with NF2, 865pe, or the amazing 440BX rock.

It does crack me up when people jump on you as if you know nothing. I can tell that is far from the case. Experience will help you make some important decisions that these noobs just can't forsee or understand. Many of them probably own and have worked on 1-2 computers that Mommy and Daddy bought for them. They have no understanding whatsoever. For those who have been around long enough to have built many 440BX systems, we ahave a different standard on stability and know just how rewarding a solid chipset/motherboard can be down the line. Crash I went from building more 440BX based systems than I could ever count to the KT133 TBird 1.0GHZ platform. It was like going from Heaven to Hell. 440BX systems lasted until they were too slow without any grief. KT133's were and still are nothing but grief. Oh man, I wish I had done more 815 PIII's and avoided Via at least til KT266A.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
 
"Who else do you see like that, ALi? SiS? Even nVidia stops short of what Americans consider "breaking the law" most of the time. Meanwhile there's VIA, circumventing the law so they can push crap into the market while putting the companies who actually designed that technology out of business.

The American dream: You do something well, you get rich. That doesn't include comitting crimes well, it's supposed to involve more effort, more integrety. VIA's dream: Someone else does something well, you steal it from them and use it to put them out of business."-Crashman

Your hatred of via finally makes sense-I'll join your boyotte! Still there are plenty of 'idea thief' companies out there,the japs were engineers were mainly that into the 80's.My father was ordered to redesign(aka steal) some tech by his company,the inventor sued the thief but lost and had a 2 million buck judgment placed against him and all in America :frown: .

The only real argument against the 64 is the bad mobo issue and the short life of the socket;but with the nforce3 250 soon out the mobo issue should be dead.

Intel still rules the mainstream market,with better cpu,both in performance and durability than the XP and for overclockers the p4 c's and even e's outperform the 64's-so there're still plenty of reasons to like the intel cpu.I must say that it's a pity that hardware discussions so frequenty end in name calling 😱 .
 
So leave!!

The world doesn't revolve around you, P4man, as you think it does! You should honestly get a life! Your one sided ness, attitudes, bias, among other things is not needed here. You just keep proving that you are an agitator above all & love to here yourself talk!

Leave, just like you did before your name change, IMO!



Dazzle them with Brilliance, or Baffle them with BS! :wink:
 
You know, ive seen so many times discussions degenerating into out right attacks on each other lol. but it happens, ppl get passionate about thier hardware. as far as the long term problems with via chipsets. its true taht they have a long histroy of it, ive had the unfortunate chnace to experince the tech nightmare they can cause. Recently though, Ive ntoiced taht most companies have gotten better about solving more problems before official shipment. The Asus k8v deluxe for example has shown me zero problems in the last 10 systems ive either built or worked using it. In fact, out of all the chipsets, most are solid, I only have had a couple issues on a nforce 3 150 board and one using the sis chipset. Ive been burned in the past by via, but Im always willing to give the next generation a try. For my personal use though id prefer to use nforce boards, im only waiting for the nforce 3 250 to be released.
 
You know crash I could respond to each comment you write but then you respond to all those and 5 more and so on.

I mean now you are bringing up ethics as a reason to avoid Via. Fine if that's how you feel BUT SAY THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

"Unless you actually wanted a good motherboard, then A64 isn't an option right now."

The phrase above is the issue at hand not VIA's moral ethics. Ethics may or may not be a reason to avoid VIA but your ancient VIA expeiences are definatly moot. Christ imagine some clown saying avoid Intel because of all the Rambus I820 headaches he had. It's my personal mission to make sure no one ever buys an Intel chipset again. What a butt plug that guy would be.

There is nothing wrong right now (techcnically) with VIA and NOW is what we are discussing. ECS SIS boards don't have raid built in, so what? Nothing wrong with nforce3 150 but an ever so slight difference in performance than VIA because of the 600 transport again so what? Do all Intel chipsets preform the same? So long as it's faster cheaper than Intel and stable what do you care?


You admitt you know little about the other chipsets but you stand by that idiot statment. and you don't even call it an opinion no you call it a fact. Crash it's not a fact it's your opinion and IMHO a stupid opinion from a biased idiot.

"Unless you actually wanted a good motherboard, then A64 isn't an option right now"


If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
 
Fine if that's how you feel BUT SAY THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
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He's been saying this for at least 5 years.

Crash it's not a fact it's your opinion and IMHO a stupid opinion from a biased idiot.
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That's asking for trouble, but as for your ignorance to Crash's history and his skill as a system integrator and his technical sauvé I would simply assume you are jealous of his years of experience.

"Unless you actually wanted a good motherboard, then A64 isn't an option right now"
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I tend to agree with Crash on this one. The current line up available for the A64 aren’t anything to brag about. We saw a much better showing when the 845's debuted. But you are obviously an AMD zealot and take this as some personal insult to your lord and savior AMD. Even though it has nothing to do with AMD and their processors, it has to do with the piss poor motherboards that are running those chips.

Xeon

<font color=orange>Scratch Here To Reveal Prize</font color=orange>
 
Re: He's been saying this for at least 5 years.

Well he did not say that when he first said "Unless you actually wanted a good motherboard, then A64 isn't an option right now" now did he? nor the last month when he said all platforms for the a64 were utter junk.


Re: That's asking for trouble, but as for your ignorance to Crash's history and his skill as a system integrator and his technical sauvé I would simply assume you are jealous of his years of experience.

I have been reading these forums longer than him or you spud, or at least as long. In fact I had the first post in these forums not that this would matter.
A person must earn my respect it's not given. Sure crash makes millions of posts helpful to the novice but he is certainly no more skilled then many posters here. Other than the fact he makes lots of posts I don't see him as overly knowledgable.


Re: I tend to agree with Crash on this one. The current line up available for the A64 aren’t anything to brag about. We saw a much better showing when the 845's debuted. But you are obviously an AMD zealot and take this as some personal insult to your lord and savior AMD. Even though it has nothing to do with AMD and their processors, it has to do with the piss poor motherboards that are running those chips.

If you agree fine it's your opinion and right to do so. Crash states these things as facts. Like I said last month he said all platforms for a64 were junk. I have had many discusions with crash on amd and he always has some kinda weak argument. 2 months ago its was dell won't use amd because of thermal death or fans that come off cpu once the computer is droped off a desk. Or every platform for amd is garbage. etc etc.

BTW what you said "The current line up available for the A64 aren’t anything to brag about"
fair enough I know choices will improve. But it's not a reason to avoid amd64 I'm sure one could find the right board cpu for anyone's needs.


Re: But you are obviously an AMD zealot and take this as some personal insult to your lord and savior AMD.

Wrong I have a problem with crash cause he should know better. It's not just this time but he keeps showing his colors and it gets irratating after a while.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart. <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by darko21 on 03/12/04 09:25 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
You know what kills me. Over on the Graphics card forum, the wisest of people discourage buying the top cards now because of the newer ones coming out. And especially discourage buying a top card now because of a game you want to play that isn't out yet. This makes sense. Also, they point people to good choices now if they need to upgrade. Choice like R9800 pro, R9600 Pro, Ti4200.

But here in CPU forums these friggin AMD fanboys treat the current A64 chip and mediocre motherboards as the Gamers only choice. LOL how dumb could they be. I for one feel that many gamers are also enthusiasts; and despite A64 offering the best gaming FPS, current A64 mobos are clearly not the enthusiast dream boards. I am yet to see one of them respond with an answer that at all takes into consideration the socket 939 chips/motherboards. Why buy 64 bit now when there aren't 64 bit aps to take advantage of, when you can wait and soon buy a Socket 939 A-64 and be more set for the future? Not to mention getting better overclocking and locked PCI/ AGP. All they can do is flaunt a few gaming benchmarks and talk bad about Intel or anyone who offers up a more reasonable position to the whole thing. Sure I realize that the graphics cards are possibly about to make a huge jump, so waiting on the highest end is smart. But wouldn't it be nice to have compatibility with all the new cards on you A-64 system? Does PCIe not spark any interest for them? I especially can't believ those who trade in NF2/ XP2500+ systems for NF3/ A643200+'s NOW, instead of waiting a bit. Anyone buying A-64 now better appreciate their gaming system now, because it won't be long before their systems will be getting creamed by newer AMD and Intel owners. But at least they will have 64 bit. :frown: ?

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
 
Re: But here in CPU forums these friggin AMD fanboys treat the current A64 chip and mediocre motherboards as the Gamers only choice. LOL how dumb could they be.

Boy you can sure tell which side of the fence has greener pasture in your eyes.

A64 is not the only choice but it's an option and a valid one right now. Like it or not. 🙂

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
 
That's more like it. You admited it is AN option, not the ONLY option. I can agree with that. I too admit it is an option and have often said i wouldn't talk someone out of A64 who had there heart set on it. Especially those who are aware of Socket 939, and still want to upgrade now.

As for me, I specifically leave my sig as is because I like to see people jump to conclusions about me. I was going to delete it long ago, but it gives me some fun. But although I origininally posted my Intel system because it is my gaming system and always has my best video card in it. (I joined this forum originally for the graphics card topics.) But in reality I own more AMD systems than Intel. And although it varies some month to month, probably 7 out of 10 systems I build are AMD, sometime higher. AMD offers me value and low prices Intel can't match. But as to what platform I think is the best alround, I say Intel; specifically "C" chips on intel chipsets. I like having seperate systems for home use, gaming, video editing, OC'in/benchmarking/test, etc. AMD fits the bill very well for me in some areas. If however I could only have one computer, i would currently stick to an IS7/P4 2.8C. I think it offers the best blend of performance/ stability/features at a reasonable price. So I really am not a fanboy either way. I truely like both companies. I just feel that there are so many A64 fans who voice their opinions as the Gospel, that it is worth voicing a different side of the story too. Afterall, did you see the title of this thread? DO you know the author is known for trying to stir debate fires? He thrives on it. Then all but one of the early posters gave Intel zero credit at all. That is idiotic. The difference between a one sided fanboy and someone who tries realistically look at all the choices and what they can offer, is pretty evident. I don't have anything against A64. I don't like the mobo choices now and am eagerly awaiting the new releases. I do however find many(not all) A64 supporters to be very narrowminded and quite rediculous to listen to. Whoever up above said Intel is for people who give into peer pressure is an IDIOT. I'd say if anything, A64 is more for someone who is easily mislead by fanboy pressure. As you are jumping on unperfected mobos to gain a few fps. Anyone who boasts AMD or Intel or NVidia as the ONLY valid option is honestly not really worth listening too. I'd say the same about ATI, except currently I think they sport the best solution in almost any price range except the $80 and under class. Well, not considering special cases like Matrox 2D and multimonitor solutions. I am thinking gaming and general useage. As far as GF FX, they are outclassed by ATI altogether. That said, if you simple must buy NVidia and hate ATI, at least you can still get very capable cards and drivers, you just won't get the most bang for the buck. For those people, the FX5900XT and a closely priced 5900 NU seem to be a good choice. Of course all that may change and NV might own the next round. Anyway, back to CPU's glad to hear you humble you A64 attitude enough to admit there are other options. Many others wouldn't do that no matter what is said or linked for them.



ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
 
Let's put this in perspective. There are certain traits I hate in a person, but there are no people I hate. VIA is a company, and also a personification of things I hate in people. If the only thing in life I hate is one company, a company I'm certain cares less about me as a consumer than I do about them as a corporation, than that is only but a small issue.

If all VIA's customers died, I'd win my battle against them by attrition. That would be fine with me, the planet is overpopulated anyway.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
 
Yes, but the problem with the high end, and I'm speaking the niche that pays thousands of dollars for a computer, is that Intel doesn't have the most powerfull processor, but asside from the K8USA motherboard (which I'm not familiar enough with), there are no boards for the A64 worthy of a $3k system. That means it's a bad time to buy for the high end, with new boards "promised" by major manufacturers using the nForce3 250 and SiS 755.

Also consider the high end hobbiest, this is a terrible time for such hobbiest, because he won't be able to use the newest components on ANY of today's boards a year from now.

So it's a GREAT time to build for the midrange, because doing so allows you to put off those high end purchases. You save money, so you can upgrade platforms sooner.

Think about it, have you ever seen a newly released platform before that didn't allow you to use next year's top end parts? This is a fairly unique time in the market.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
 
Part of my point has always been, we were supposed to have had top end 755 chipset boards by now.

SiS makes a great integrated SATA RAID controller, and also offers the same unit on a separate chip. Asus has such a board available for the P4, but not for the A64. They said they would, but they never released it. 4 SATA headers, all raidable, using the same driver.

i820 worked great with RAMBUS, I've never heard any complaints. It was the MTH for SDRAM people had problems with, Intel was forced to release it, then recalled it, not only replacing the boards, but providing you a brand new RAMBUS board with a 128MB module, to replace your MTH corrupted SDRAM unit.

And so you say I'm wrong about "good" motherboards for the A64, I should quit excluding the 755-A2. I was thinking more allong the lines of top end boards, since what you're buying is a top-end processor. Whoever wants lame, er, budget boards for high end CPU's, I'll let them make the decision on their own.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
 
Tell me Crashman what is wrong with the GA-K8N PRO board.
Please dont tell me that it isn't good because it's interconnect speed is only twice as fast as the intel solutions.
 
red herring

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
 
Recommend? If you have money to blow, buy the K8USA and the 3400+. Then if it turns out to be less than the great board OCWorkbench claims, you can afford to replace it.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
 
Crash stated what's wrong with it when he explained why it's a bad idea to buy High end now. Also, if 64 bit aps aren't out yet, yet when they are released you have a motherboard/A64 that can't use the best components, what good is having 64 bit. Wait and there will be better.

If you honestly want to take the plunge now into high end. Why not visit some trusty sites and get info on the board. The K8N-Pro ... Wait, I can't seem to find any. Not on the big sites, not really in google, and not even a link on Gigabytes site to one review written in English. If Gigabyte can't point you to a decent review to show off their hardware, and i can't find one, why should I spend thousands of dollars right now building a system based on that mobo. The Mobo is the key to you success/failure with a computer. You better know it's good. Do you? I can't find good reviews, Can you? I can give you loads of reviews and success stories on an Abit IS7. I can point you to links where P4's are overall quicker than A64's too.

Again if there are some good reviews that show off what this motherboard can do, please post them. I'd honestly like to read up on it more. I and others then can possibly answer your question a little easier. Why do you pick that board as been worthy of dumping loads expensive hardware into it? It doesn't even have SATA or SATA/Raid as even my $95 IS7 has. Yet it's Truely worthy of claiming high end honors?

If it were my money and I needed high end, what would I buy. Well, why would I NEED high end now? One reason would be I edit video day in and day out and I want a stable fast system I can rely on. Then I'd go with an IS7 or maybe even IC7MAX3 and a $287 retail P4 3.2C. Paired with 1GB Corsair PC4000 Pro. Prefer Gigabyte, buy a Gigabyte GA-8KNXP. High performance/ and proven stability, with great features.

What is wrong with that?

And for you gamers who actually need high end? What games can this P4 3.2GHZ not run well when paired with a R9800XT? Where do you need a few more cpu limited fps? I mean if you Need high end right now? Of course this system will OC' well too. Which in my book is something a high end system should be capable of. And this system will perform well in all tests including games. Will it win every test, of course not. But niether will your NF3 system.

Look <A HREF="http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030923/athlon_64-22.html" target="_new"> Here </A>, read the whole review, and tell why you think a P4 3.2C isn't as good a choice for high end, and in many cases better? And an IS7/ P4 3.2C comes in cheaper than your K8N-Pro/ A64 3200+.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
 
I have seen that comparasin before. There are only three tests that I can check. In all three the Amd systems scored about 1/2 normal, while the Intel systems scored 20% above normal.
As far as the gigabyte setup goes, I have built and tested a couple of them. .They perform as much better than a P4c, than a P4c does over a P4b.
 
Oh really, how many P4 - "C"'s have you built?

What 3 tests can you run?

And does SATA mean nothing to you in a HIGH END SYSTEM? In a real high end system you would want one of <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=22-144-160&depa=1" target="_new"> THESE </A>, or better yet 2 in Raid striping.

If you want to claim by High End, you mean a fast Gaming rig, I'll agree with you that your choice is valid. But not as an all-round highend enthusiast system.

And again, mid level performance makes more sense to me right now than buying High end right now.



ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
 
Just 5 of the P4c setups.
Why are you talking about the raptors? Personally I like the smaller ones. Put 2 in raid 0 on one of the gigabyte boards. I'm not that fond of the silicon image solution, but it's okay.
 
My mistake as I didn't think NF3 150 supported SATA Raid or SATA at all. I thought I read that on ANandtech one time, but maybe I am wrong? Yeah, if so, my bad... LOL and good question by you.

Anyway, what tests do you score 2X what Tom did?


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
 
Yeah but your jiggling around with the numbers using the 3000+ (who would buy one of those?), trying to use that for comparison when the clear choice is either 2500+ XP or 3000A64 for AMD.
Tossing in all this video card for $40 mumbo jumbo doesnt defeat the facts either..

1. Best bang for buck- 2500+
2. Best high end- A64 (pick a model that fits your price point)


So I dont know why all of this business with comparing crappy deals to good deals. 3000+ compared to 2.8C? No ones making that comparison.
P3-500mhz is a bad deal compared to the Tbird 1.2ghz... and that has to do what with the price of sand in Hawaii?

I dunno whats up with all the blabbing if you cant shoot down points above, numbers 1 and 2.

If you agree, then agree... dont do all this funny dancin.
Ya big silly.

----
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Support the terrorists, vote democrat
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