turboflame
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personally I use both Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux; they are each better suited for certain tasks, and I use each for their respective strengths. None of the three do everything right, however they each have an edge on the others in a certain way. Buy what suites your use, period. Good article!
I currently own an iPod nano 4GB 2nd gen. I only own it because it was handed down to me from my girlfriend when she got an iPod Touch. At first I was leery of using an apple product... and it turned out the reason I was leery of it is because I'd never owned one!
It turns out to be just perfectly fine for everything I use it for. I use Winamp to sync music to it because I'm less familiar with iTunes. Doesn't mean iTunes sucks, or that it's garbage, just means I like Winamp because I'm familiar with it.
I own no apple computers, and thus since I've had less than 30 minutes of lifetime total hands-on experience with Apple computers, I'm unable to say they suck without only showing my own lack of knowledge.
It turns out to be just perfectly fine for everything I use it for. I use Winamp to sync music to it because I'm less familiar with iTunes. Doesn't mean iTunes sucks, or that it's garbage, just means I like Winamp because I'm familiar with it.
I own no apple computers, and thus since I've had less than 30 minutes of lifetime total hands-on experience with Apple computers, I'm unable to say they suck without only showing my own lack of knowledge.
davidhbrown
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I have no problem with Apple/Mac; my first was a IIsi. What I do have a problem with is boneheaded fanboy blather posted here by "writers" like Marcus Yam posing as news.
Floydage
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Are we back in grade school? lol Are you seriously scoulding your reads for expressing their opinions? While I agree that most of those comments are childish should you really be talking to your customers that way? If you are going to tell the PC people to play nice then you also need to spend some time writing a "Be nice to the PC people article". I have read many an article on Tom's about microsoft and the Mac fan's are flaming microsoft. Ireally don't care 1 way or the other. I have both mac's and pc's in my home. Just saying was this article REALLY needed? I work in service repairing High volume copiers and printer's. Everytime one of my machine's break down my customers bash the machine and tell me what a piece of crap it is. The last thing I would say to them is "Be nice now, it's only fair because other brands of copiers break too". Please tell me you see my point. It must have been a slow news day for you to waste your time writing such and article.
I'm not fond of macs myself, but to their credit I'm only tolerant of Windows and Microsoft as a whole because I love to play games. If OpenGL ever receives the attention it deserves and games start migrating to Linux and Mac I'll never touch a Windows computer again. I think the whole development community is too obsessed with DirectX for anything major to happen this decade.
soo-nah-mee
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Funny, I don't remember ever getting flamed back by any magazines I read as a kid! I imagine if I did I would stop buying the magazine. I find it irritating that a writer on here would demand that his readers "cool it" with the comments. Anandtech is a great site that doesn't flame their readers.
Frankly, this article is a waste of time.
Fanboys just eat stuff like this up, and they are the main ones you are angry about. The only way to cut down on it is to warn/ban users who can't behave.
That being said, you can't exactly claim brand ignorance on your article topics. When apple introduces any product, there's a ton of articles on it- before, during and after launch. The same can't really be said about other companies. Does every iteration of Blackberry get covered? How about every Palm OS phone? I'm not going to dig through every article that the Tom's network has done, but I sure feel more informed about every apple product that comes out than I do everything else- and I don't read anything other than here. I understand that apple products are hip and probably get you lots of reads and ad revenue, which is really what everything is about, but don't be so sensitive about backlash.
Fanboys just eat stuff like this up, and they are the main ones you are angry about. The only way to cut down on it is to warn/ban users who can't behave.
That being said, you can't exactly claim brand ignorance on your article topics. When apple introduces any product, there's a ton of articles on it- before, during and after launch. The same can't really be said about other companies. Does every iteration of Blackberry get covered? How about every Palm OS phone? I'm not going to dig through every article that the Tom's network has done, but I sure feel more informed about every apple product that comes out than I do everything else- and I don't read anything other than here. I understand that apple products are hip and probably get you lots of reads and ad revenue, which is really what everything is about, but don't be so sensitive about backlash.
I think people who don't hate Apple just fail to make an effort to understand why others hate Apple so much. Whatever Tuan says will not convince anyone - because he represents the first group.
While I agree that mindless bashing posts are annoying and pointless, I take them solely as the sign of frustration of Apple haters. These people (including myself) would like the first group to at least understand our reasons (and then make their choice whether or not we're right or not), but the first group just fails to listen. That's where the frustration comes from.
The reason why I hate Apple (and I think many others too) is because they managed to manipulate a large proportion of society into thinking that their "computer-making" model is superior to the PC model. Throughout the years we (computer enthusiasts) cherished the PC model that put emphasis on choice and customization (support for all possible hardware and software was a virtue). We cherished the freedom to build systems we wanted, the way we wanted. It fit with the "general spirit" of democracy and free world we live in. And now came Apple who limit the choice and freedom. Who say that we don't really need the choice (of both hardware and software) because what they decided to include should be enough for everybody. That nobody needs anything else.
And now, please understand my argument : it's not annoying that they do this - they are entitled to any strategy/marketing they want. The frustrating part is that THEIR STRATEGY WORKS. That they show all of us that MANY people in our (supposedly FREE society) doesn't want the choice or freedom. Doesn't care about it. Will take 'anything' that Apple tells them is good.
It's like listening to a politician saying "I know what you need, elect me so that I can decide for you". Who wouldn't hate such a guy? And yet, people admire 'the guy' (=Jobs), buy his products, and, even more, tell others that this makes them MORE CLEVER than those who choose choice and freedom.
What can be more annoying than this?
While I agree that mindless bashing posts are annoying and pointless, I take them solely as the sign of frustration of Apple haters. These people (including myself) would like the first group to at least understand our reasons (and then make their choice whether or not we're right or not), but the first group just fails to listen. That's where the frustration comes from.
The reason why I hate Apple (and I think many others too) is because they managed to manipulate a large proportion of society into thinking that their "computer-making" model is superior to the PC model. Throughout the years we (computer enthusiasts) cherished the PC model that put emphasis on choice and customization (support for all possible hardware and software was a virtue). We cherished the freedom to build systems we wanted, the way we wanted. It fit with the "general spirit" of democracy and free world we live in. And now came Apple who limit the choice and freedom. Who say that we don't really need the choice (of both hardware and software) because what they decided to include should be enough for everybody. That nobody needs anything else.
And now, please understand my argument : it's not annoying that they do this - they are entitled to any strategy/marketing they want. The frustrating part is that THEIR STRATEGY WORKS. That they show all of us that MANY people in our (supposedly FREE society) doesn't want the choice or freedom. Doesn't care about it. Will take 'anything' that Apple tells them is good.
It's like listening to a politician saying "I know what you need, elect me so that I can decide for you". Who wouldn't hate such a guy? And yet, people admire 'the guy' (=Jobs), buy his products, and, even more, tell others that this makes them MORE CLEVER than those who choose choice and freedom.
What can be more annoying than this?
Tuan, what was the point of this article?
The heart of the issue is that trolls and internet message boards are annoying, regardless of the debate. PC/Mac, Xbox/PS3/Wii, republicans/democrats.
People argue irrationally on both sides, and they do so with the offensive language and overt rage that can only come from hiding behind a keyboard.
If you're going to work in the internet news business, it comes with the territory and you're going to have to accept it. Not like it. Not even participate in it. Just accept that there will always be people looking for a fight for no other reason than that they want one.
You don't help the situation or your point by writing an article like this. A diatribe that just regurgitates the talking points and combines them with the hubris of thinking you can lay down some final word on each issue is silly.
Furthermore, the end of the article is contrary to what seems like the heart of your complaint.
"Likewise, if there are any Mac fans here who feel the need to always bash a Windows-PC user, the same applies to you."
This two-line disclaimer trying to state that your argument is somehow two-fold and equally applicable to the anti-PC side is thin when it follows a lengthy discourse trying to break down various opposing talking points. The title of this article makes it clear exactly who it is that you're lecturing.
All you're doing is fanning the flames you're claiming to try and quash. And I don't give a damn about what trolls and pyros rant about in the comments after an article. But when the person on the soapbox is the only one with a microphone and their point is still quite skewed, then I'm bothered.
Tuan and all you other Tom's writers, the lesson you need to learn is that we want you to do your job. Report the news like journalists. Be unbiased. Be inquisitive. Question everything that seems suspect, with no outcome in mind, and then report what you find without spin. Keep your readers informed.
Don't whine. Don't defend one side or the other in an editorial complaint about your readers, who should be free to debate (however sometimes irrationally) they want.
Don't pretend to be the voice of reason above the fray when you're not.
Being the loudest voice in the fray doesn't mean you're above it.
The heart of the issue is that trolls and internet message boards are annoying, regardless of the debate. PC/Mac, Xbox/PS3/Wii, republicans/democrats.
People argue irrationally on both sides, and they do so with the offensive language and overt rage that can only come from hiding behind a keyboard.
If you're going to work in the internet news business, it comes with the territory and you're going to have to accept it. Not like it. Not even participate in it. Just accept that there will always be people looking for a fight for no other reason than that they want one.
You don't help the situation or your point by writing an article like this. A diatribe that just regurgitates the talking points and combines them with the hubris of thinking you can lay down some final word on each issue is silly.
Furthermore, the end of the article is contrary to what seems like the heart of your complaint.
"Likewise, if there are any Mac fans here who feel the need to always bash a Windows-PC user, the same applies to you."
This two-line disclaimer trying to state that your argument is somehow two-fold and equally applicable to the anti-PC side is thin when it follows a lengthy discourse trying to break down various opposing talking points. The title of this article makes it clear exactly who it is that you're lecturing.
All you're doing is fanning the flames you're claiming to try and quash. And I don't give a damn about what trolls and pyros rant about in the comments after an article. But when the person on the soapbox is the only one with a microphone and their point is still quite skewed, then I'm bothered.
Tuan and all you other Tom's writers, the lesson you need to learn is that we want you to do your job. Report the news like journalists. Be unbiased. Be inquisitive. Question everything that seems suspect, with no outcome in mind, and then report what you find without spin. Keep your readers informed.
Don't whine. Don't defend one side or the other in an editorial complaint about your readers, who should be free to debate (however sometimes irrationally) they want.
Don't pretend to be the voice of reason above the fray when you're not.
Being the loudest voice in the fray doesn't mean you're above it.
You gave your opinion and your readers called you out on it. Stop hiding in a closet and just be open about it. You love Apple and some of your readers don't. What's so bad about it.
It makes for a hell of good read.
It makes for a hell of good read.
kalogagatya
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[citation][nom]RADIO_ACTIVE[/nom]LOL!!! isn't Apple basically stating that PCs are garbage and suck in their comercials (maybe just other words but its the same thing). Whats the difference??? Tell Apple to stop the hate lol[/citation]
+1
I really don't care about MACS. I'll always be a windows-PC user because I wish so. end of story..
But there is underlying hate in mac commercials, which disgust me.
If their product is better (as they say it is), why the need to point out the faults in others?
"My product is 0. But because yours is -1, we are better."
+1
I really don't care about MACS. I'll always be a windows-PC user because I wish so. end of story..
But there is underlying hate in mac commercials, which disgust me.
If their product is better (as they say it is), why the need to point out the faults in others?
"My product is 0. But because yours is -1, we are better."
lol @ being offended that people think 2k is too much money for a 1k system badged as a 17" macbook pro. i see where this stems from 
article should just state at the top that a mac has the same intel chip that can run windows and u can choose which o/s u want. other than that, this article is just drabble. i never said that macs suck, they just cost more money and sometimes u can buy one comperable pc laptop and use the money you saved from not buying an apple macbook pro to buy an entire other laptop with that money. for my dell, when i bought it, the macbook pro with the exact same hardware spec (although the screen being 15" on the macbook I dunno if it was as high quality as the dell or not) cost $600 more. I could've bought the stripped down version of the same exact model of laptop I was buying for $600.
article should just state at the top that a mac has the same intel chip that can run windows and u can choose which o/s u want. other than that, this article is just drabble. i never said that macs suck, they just cost more money and sometimes u can buy one comperable pc laptop and use the money you saved from not buying an apple macbook pro to buy an entire other laptop with that money. for my dell, when i bought it, the macbook pro with the exact same hardware spec (although the screen being 15" on the macbook I dunno if it was as high quality as the dell or not) cost $600 more. I could've bought the stripped down version of the same exact model of laptop I was buying for $600.Here's my opinion. PC is a 7MB digital camera. Decent, does not look bad but does not look awesome either. Price is $100. Mac is a 12MB digital camera. Looks beautiful. Price is $250.
Both products are great. However, for me, I take pictures for fun and never print larger than 8x11 inches. So do I need to shell out extra $150 for 5 extra mega pixels that I never need? or do I spend just $100 for a decent perfectly working digital camera that does pretty much the same?
I pick the $100.
If you need 10 or 12 mega pixel, then go for "Mac".
If you only need 5 or 7 mega pixel, then go for "PC".
Both products are great. However, for me, I take pictures for fun and never print larger than 8x11 inches. So do I need to shell out extra $150 for 5 extra mega pixels that I never need? or do I spend just $100 for a decent perfectly working digital camera that does pretty much the same?
I pick the $100.
If you need 10 or 12 mega pixel, then go for "Mac".
If you only need 5 or 7 mega pixel, then go for "PC".
mlopinto2k1
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Wow, glad someone has a sense of morality still! This is a great article but I have to admit, I did laugh a little at the wise-asses leaving wise-crack comments!!!
mlopinto2k1
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[citation][nom]ssalim[/nom]Here's my opinion. PC is a 7MB digital camera. Decent, does not look bad but does not look awesome either. Price is $100. Mac is a 12MB digital camera. Looks beautiful. Price is $250.Both products are great. However, for me, I take pictures for fun and never print larger than 8x11 inches. So do I need to shell out extra $150 for 5 extra mega pixels that I never need? or do I spend just $100 for a decent perfectly working digital camera that does pretty much the same?I pick the $100.If you need 10 or 12 mega pixel, then go for "Mac".If you only need 5 or 7 mega pixel, then go for "PC".[/citation]Epic FAIL - sorry!
Well, when i read this article, i was going to weigh in with my well thought out response... but most of what i was going to say has already been said well (errors, clear bias in reporting extra mac/ipod/iphone related news, etc). The main point i really wanted to drive home is that I think tomshardware has lost sight of its demographic. This website exists ONLY because of IBM compatible PC enthusiasts and gamers who build their own rigs and need the latest/most up to date information as to which cards are faster, which procs are faster, how well said products perform in programs/games etc. Many of us who have been there from the very early days (i started using this sight when i built my first 100% homebuilt comp, based around a PII-333) feel a little bit insulted and betrayed by the fact that this site continues to move more and more into a mac/apple arena, at least in regards to the news section.
Anandtech is an example of a website which has stayed true to its guns and continues to be a well respected site b/c of it. Tomshardware used to be a source you could use to end an argument on whether one product was faster, etc, than another. Now, if you post a link to a tomshardware article, the newer kids to the game dismiss it right out. Yet, i can still link anandtech articles and end an argument in a thread on a forum somewhere. Why? B/C anandtech only reports mac/apple related news that is ACTUALLY news. Like, "hey, here is a completely redesigned mac laptop", or "Mac revamps its entire macpro line, here are the specs, etc". Instead of what we constantly get here on toms, which are articles about some new iphone app that can give you directions on how to use a thumscrew instead of a screwdriver, and the worst part of all is half the time the articles feel like they've been written in a fit of barely contained excitement, as if the author were shaking uncontrollably at the thought of how awesome it is and they just have to write a "news" article about it.
Anyways, i'll shut up now.
Anandtech is an example of a website which has stayed true to its guns and continues to be a well respected site b/c of it. Tomshardware used to be a source you could use to end an argument on whether one product was faster, etc, than another. Now, if you post a link to a tomshardware article, the newer kids to the game dismiss it right out. Yet, i can still link anandtech articles and end an argument in a thread on a forum somewhere. Why? B/C anandtech only reports mac/apple related news that is ACTUALLY news. Like, "hey, here is a completely redesigned mac laptop", or "Mac revamps its entire macpro line, here are the specs, etc". Instead of what we constantly get here on toms, which are articles about some new iphone app that can give you directions on how to use a thumscrew instead of a screwdriver, and the worst part of all is half the time the articles feel like they've been written in a fit of barely contained excitement, as if the author were shaking uncontrollably at the thought of how awesome it is and they just have to write a "news" article about it.
Anyways, i'll shut up now.
JMcEntegart
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[citation][nom]uapserdack[/nom]I suggest that the TH team, who claim they are 'all technology enthusiasts' buy a better camera to take shots of themselves.[/citation]
Think that was a shot someone took with their phone at CES last year. Sorry the quality isn't great.
Think that was a shot someone took with their phone at CES last year. Sorry the quality isn't great.
mlopinto2k1
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[citation][nom]RADIO_ACTIVE[/nom]LOL!!! isn't Apple basically stating that PCs are garbage and suck in their comercials (maybe just other words but its the same thing). Whats the difference??? Tell Apple to stop the hate lol[/citation]Bro, PC users ALWAYS used to say, "Mac sucks". It was so bad at one point it was almost a slogan. Mac sucks, Mac sucks. So, Apple fired back with their commercials.. albeit, I didn't like the fact that Apple was generalizing EVERY PC USER into that dickhead category and the face I use a PC and enjoy it! But, just for the record, Apple was getting bashed first. At least during my time period.
pooflinger1
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While this site may be about technology, it has really started to get away from the its roots, and why most of us started to/do come here.
Do Toms readers care about apples new mouse? No. Did you guys post anything about the new Logitech/Razor/Microsoft Mouse? Rarely. A lot of people have a valid point in that it seems that the site is posting more and more pointless apple articles. While apple may push technology on some fronts, why do we need to have a whole article on them updating their low end laptop to use 1 piece of plastic instead of 4? Instead of posint 14 articles (I know it wasn't really that many), they could have very easily been combined into one or two and still conveyed the same information.
I think I speak for alot of the readers here in saying that we want more of the qality articles that brought us to Toms in the first place. We want performance numbers. We want benchmarks. We want overclocking guides, etc. What we don't care about is the latest iphone OS release or what new color the ipods are now comming in. We want unbiases tech news and you CANNOT honestly say that none of your articles are slanted. Alot of your articles are not slanted, but it seems that almost ALL of the apple ones are.
Do Toms readers care about apples new mouse? No. Did you guys post anything about the new Logitech/Razor/Microsoft Mouse? Rarely. A lot of people have a valid point in that it seems that the site is posting more and more pointless apple articles. While apple may push technology on some fronts, why do we need to have a whole article on them updating their low end laptop to use 1 piece of plastic instead of 4? Instead of posint 14 articles (I know it wasn't really that many), they could have very easily been combined into one or two and still conveyed the same information.
I think I speak for alot of the readers here in saying that we want more of the qality articles that brought us to Toms in the first place. We want performance numbers. We want benchmarks. We want overclocking guides, etc. What we don't care about is the latest iphone OS release or what new color the ipods are now comming in. We want unbiases tech news and you CANNOT honestly say that none of your articles are slanted. Alot of your articles are not slanted, but it seems that almost ALL of the apple ones are.
tikrjee
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Well said. I don't like Apples (fruit and computers). But I'm not going to say they suck and shouldn't exist. I know I'm not their target user, so I really don't care. Anyone out there that feels posts concerning Apple products on any tech website have no reason to be reading any of these sites. These postings bring awareness of what's out there, even if people aren't going to use it (Bill's Laser Ignition System, anyone?). Besides, if it weren't for Apple, the MP3 Player wouldn't be as impressive as it is today in features and appearance, whether you use a Zune, Sandisk, Samsung, Archos, iPod, or whatever. Not to mention the groundwork they laid for PDAs and touchscreens. I hate Apple, but I appreciate what they do for the Tech World.
And to the reader who said noon trash-talks Mercedes, yes. Yes they do. They're called BMW Owners.
And to the reader who said noon trash-talks Mercedes, yes. Yes they do. They're called BMW Owners.
cottonball
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Throughout reading this article all I heard was "I'm an apple user that gets picked on wahhh! Please stop."
And yes I like apple products especially their phone.
And yes I like apple products especially their phone.
tektek
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- Aug 18, 2006
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Its not that.. its that you always make i sound like WE dont know better and your throwing something at us..by saying..'LOOK MORE PROOF APPLE IS BETTER'... this would fly on some old timers site who need tech help..but THG fans.. are hardcore techies.. so all we ask is.. just say apple.. 'claims' or 'announces' and let us use our like/dislike choice.
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