Intelligent Design

[JAYDEEJOHN]

God doesnt limit us, He gives us the freedom to do what we want.
Because God warns us of sin, often, we dont know if it is or not.
God is not limited.
Anything found by man cannot be recreated from scratch, in regards to how we are here.
Something from nothing, in essence.

God wants us to succeed, and if a man hits a wall, will God use this to mans advantage?
Yes, God doesnt do bad works.
There is an understanding, as dog says, between the faithful and God.
And just as we are seperate beings, with seperate thoughts and desires and interests and influences etc etc, so too is our walk with God.

 

[dogman_1234]

You can believe whatever you want to believe, that is what I believe. I am just trying to understand why you believe what you do.

Why do I believe in what I believe?

I see beauty. I see nature, I see the science in what is around us. I believe life is too complex to be started from a spontaneous expansion of energy. I believe that everything around us happened for a reason, not without randomization. Randomization occurs in the math world, one we have yet to expose completely.

basically, for my own personal observation of the universe, there has to be more than just what we see. I believe there is a God, who did come to this earth to die for not just me, but for all.

I am not trying to force my beliefs down your throat. I am just a brother, or hopefully I am trying to be, to you.

This is m faith. This is what I believe. This is who I am.

Love: It is more than a feeling.

God Bless you all.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Doesnt that knock man down a notch?

 

[wanamingo]

So, with the vastness of even our local area of the Milky Way and all the habitable planets we are discovering, the idea of being visited by another advanced civilization in the past is really that far fetched?

Now who is being the closed minded flat-earther here?

One of my huge issues (Especially after researching that author you referenced) is aliens dont seem that advanced.....


Sumerian tablets referencing aliens with Rocket Ships like how a rocket would have looked in the 50's? Landing planes on the nasca lines? Why would an alien need a prop driven machine that needs a landing strip, that one was in the book you linked to a while ago. Breathing apparatus big bulky "Communication Devices" it doesnt fit. The author proposes that humans were bred with them to make slaves to work in gold mines...... Makes no sense.

Aliens would be so far advanced they would never get caught. Even a 300 year difference would make them look like magicians, we would have no reference as to what we are seeing.

Now when we start thinking about the vastness of the milky way you also have to think about age. How much longer do you think we can live on this planet without a faster than light drive? 500 - 1000 maybe? So we have been producing radio waves for like 60 years so we have a 60 lightyear bubble around us where aliens could find us without any difficulty at all (Assuming they haven't abandoned radio wave tech altogether.... How many of you could play a laserdisc and that's only been 15 years).

So aliens have about a thousand year window to make contact with us over the course of 15,000,000,000 year life of the universe. Now im not saying there aren't aliens (I firmly believe they exist) its just when you break down the chances of aliens finding us are pretty low.

Has anyone ever filled out the drake equation?

N = the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which communication might be possible;

R* = the average rate of star formation per year in our galaxy
fp = the fraction of those stars that have planets
ne = the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
fℓ = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life at some point
fi = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent life
fc = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space
L = the length of time for which such civilizations release detectable signals into space[4]

 

[johnsonma]

Its not really an assumption when you base it off facts. I would call it more of an educated guess which is far more reliable than theories based off cultures that had no idea. We can fly jets around the sky, put people on the moon and establish the international space station but we are still so far away from just getting out of our solar system that all of this tech will seem like swords and armor once we advance to that point. The one thing you are underestimating in your theory about aliens is how big the universe really is. It is not even possible to comprehend with the human mind because we have nothing to base it off of. It would be like finding a needle in a haystack as big as the sun (as far as aliens discovering us). That is in reference to not only space but time as well.

 

[wanamingo]

Dudes for the record I really dig thinking about this.

I think we can agree that aliens are capable of Light speed or faster than light speed. If we crunch the numbers just for our galaxy alone there are a handful of sentient communicable civilizations out there. There may be life in our solar system but its probably a fungus or single celled, if anything at all.

Maybe they cant interact with us and its a zoo like scenario. They wont interfere for a while, let us figure a few things out before they make contact. That would show some sort of humanitarianism since if they wanted to they could probably wipe us out fairly quick. Imagine driving a modern tank down the streets of England 500 years ago....... now imagine they are 5000 years or even a million years more advanced. We could even stretch it further can you imagine what a civilization that is a 1,000,000,000 years more advanced would look like? Its possible as long as sufficiently advanced civilizations don't off themselves.

So maybe they dont want to meet the neighbors maybe advanced civilizations eventually kill themselves through war or catastrophe. War is probably right up there with the wheel and fire in terms of inventions. Maybe its a good thing no one has tracked us down yet, just from our own history when two new societies meet the less technologically developed one typically gets the short end of the stick, and by that i mean brutally massacred.

 

[wanamingo]

What if they didn't "discover" us at all. What if they actually made us which is where all the ancient stories, legends, and myths from around the world come from? That we were created by the Gods or in monotheism, God. Would explain a lot yes?

well there are two ways we could go with this. The current Hypothesis, and correct me if Im wrong, is that we are a hybrid creature between whatever the dominant ape was at the time (Neanderthal?) and the Annunaki. Specifically for mining, possibly Gold?

We should have some pretty extraordinary DNA markers then, something that our ancestors wouldn't have.

If you have ever seen the Zeitgeist movie, specifically the first one, they show that most religions are astronomically based. The Jesus figure appears in several different religions with a lot of similarities. If we think about how our ancestors probably worshiped the lights in the skies (Stars, moon) and then they started making up stories and that's why there are similar references in different civilizations.

 

[johnsonma]

Have you guys ever heard of the Alcubierre drive?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

Either way, be it by worm holes or light speed travel they would not be flying atmosphere based planes and rockets if they had that kind of technology. You can base this off of where we are at, by the time we are exploring space we will have advanced so much that people today would call it magic. Technological singularity anyone?

 

[wanamingo]

Wormholes could potentially solve the problem of interstellar transit but even then that is a tech level probably a thousand years ahead of us. Their ships probably wouldn't be burning any kind of solid fuel combustion based rockets. It would look like magic. And really once you have made it to that point, travel anywhere in the Universe, you would have no inclination to visit Earth. Any minerals or metals you would need can be harvested directly from Supernovas or uninhabited planets or even synthesized from carbon, kind of like alchemy(Imagine how easy mining would be if you didn't have to worry about the locals).

Also another thing to take into account is they are most definitely predators. Just like Humans we are the Apex predator on our planet, so they would probably be militarized. Maybe the Apex predator for the Universe has just been wiping out every other species that develops. We wouldn't add anything to their knowledge we have absolutely nothing they would want, besides trouble. It would be logical to remove all other competition even if its a civilization that has the potential to be a problem. Stephen Hawking has said it might be the best idea to just "Hide" stop broadcasting on some wavelengths, shutdown extra solar launches. Maybe that's what other species have been up to, and that's why we haven't seen any yet. The apex predator kills the competition it can find, and ignores the ones hiding.

I also read something on wikipedia saying that with ships that can even hit a couple percentage points the speed of light we could colonize (Or at least send a ship to) every inhabitable planet in the milky way galaxy in 50 million years. Sounds like a long time but eventually we would like to think we could spread out over the galaxy, so why hasn't someone else beat us to it first? How come we aren't seeing constant signs of an inhabited universe? It would be in their best interest to grab all available planets because the universe is a harsh place, it wants to kill you in very creative ways. Its only by chance we haven't been completely destroyed. Maybe its inevitable and no one makes it off planet before something terrible happens.

 

[wanamingo]

Have you guys ever heard of the Alcubierre drive?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

Either way, be it by worm holes or light speed travel they would not be flying atmosphere based planes and rockets if they had that kind of technology. You can base this off of where we are at, by the time we are exploring space we will have advanced so much that people today would call it magic. Technological singularity anyone?

Ive heard about these drives and its possible, we really just need a fuel source that can support the math behind it. Ive also read that wherever you take the ship to will be destroyed. The amount of energy released from the particles you pick up either on the way or from origination would be released all at once when the ship stops. Im not sure if its like a bomb going off or just particles moving extremely fast carrying on in whichever direction you were going.

Definitely our best bet, I wonder how much a prototype engine would cost?

 

[johnsonma]

Ive heard about these drives and its possible, we really just need a fuel source that can support the math behind it. Ive also read that wherever you take the ship to will be destroyed. The amount of energy released from the particles you pick up either on the way or from origination would be released all at once when the ship stops. Im not sure if its like a bomb going off or just particles moving extremely fast carrying on in whichever direction you were going.

Definitely our best bet, I wonder how much a prototype engine would cost?

From what I read you would need to put a "collector" in front of the ship to stop dust particles from obliterating your ship. Then when you exit the bubble you can release that dust particle collection and off it goes into space. Also the really cool thing about the bubble is when you exit it, you maintain your speed from within the bubble, not outside it. It would almost appear like they just magically appeared out of no where.

 

[wanamingo]

But why gold specifically? We can create better superconductors, maybe not on a mass scale but its still possible. And there are theoretical materials that could be produced that would far surpass anything we have as a conductor. But seriously Gold is one of the heavier metals and is created in a Supernova, so why not just zip arpound and collect it after a supernova before it coalesces into an asteroid or something? Most of the planets gold sank to the core when the planet was being formed, most of the gold we have in the crust is from meteors. So why not go after meteors?

I would be more inclined to think that society is just much much older than currently suspected. I think the popular belief is the first real cities were being founded 15,000 years ago. Maybe as a civilization we are probably closer to 50,000 years?

Also I would be careful about what ancient society thought about time. I don't think Noah really lived to be several hundred years old. It was probably part of an oral story, I can picture this conversation:


"So how Old was he?"

"Dude like real old"

"like 50 years old?"

"no like 950 years old"


Same thing with the dates the tablets referenced 240,000 years could also just mean "A really really Long time ago". I mean when your average of death is probably like 30 a few generations devolves into an unknown amount of time, but it must feel like a long time.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

http://www.sfreviews.net/totaleclipse.html

 

[johnsonma]

They may have been after this more than just ordinary gold.

http://www.davidicke.com/articles/medicalhealth-mainmenu-37/47-monatomic-gold

"MONATOMIC GOLD INFORMATION

Recently there has been much written about Monatomic Gold. Ancient cultures such as the Egyptians and Sumarians used it to feed their light body and encourage spiritual transformation and enlightenment and promote optimum health. Recent advances in modern science and tireless investigation by credible researchers have started to confirm that this fascinating substance indeed has "exotic" properties and can literally, according to lab data, alter space, time and gravity."

http://www.purestcolloids.com/ionic-gold.php
I have a potion that not only cures all diseases but makes you live twice as long!!!

I am pretty sure that aliens would have more efficient techniques for mining gold than human slaves. Robots, planet cracking, liquidation and other concepts seem much more plausible. The thing is that we would have no idea what alien life would be like and how they would think.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Singularity-Is-Near-Transcend/dp/0670033847

Read this book, this just one possible future. It will be more incredible than anything we can even begin to comprehend.

 

[wanamingo]

http://www.purestcolloids.com/ionic-gold.php
I have a potion that not only cures all diseases but makes you live twice as long!!!

I am pretty sure that aliens would have more efficient techniques for mining gold than human slaves. Robots, planet cracking, liquidation and other concepts seem much more plausible. The thing is that we would have no idea what alien life would be like and how they would think.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Singularity-Is-Near-Transcend/dp/0670033847

Read this book, this just one possible future. It will be more incredible than anything we can even begin to comprehend.

Took me a minute to figure out where the name Ray Kurzweil rings a bell and then it clicked, he has a documentary on Netflix called Transcendent Man. I havent read any of his books but Ill track one down now.

The only references we have for what aliens would behave like is ourselves, I mean we will never know until it happens. But I still stick by my Apex Predator theory.

I thought this was quite funny:

http://cdn-www.i-am-bored.com/media/71041_firstcontactalien.png

 

[johnsonma]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qikjljlbTQw&feature=g-vrec

 

[johnsonma]

You're sure are you? Know something everyone else doesn't?

There are many possibilities john, that's all we are discussing here, possibilities. It's clear your entire job here is to just try to discredit or otherwise throw water on anything I post in any thread. You're getting boring and are more closed minded than any religious person I have come across in my life time.

I'm just saying using humans as slaves to mine gold is too far out there to take seriously. Also rubbing Monatomic gold on your body is dangerous and could kill you. Read that singularity book OMG, then you can bash my close mindedness and religious thoughts.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

If no one followed my earlier link, CS Lewis wrote about the planets within our solar system, as we didnt have a clue at the time, and on each was a different civilization, where one it was Adam and Eve, as Satan came to tempt them, and the hero was stuck in the middle, trying to save their sinlessness.
The other was much older, and had come to know God without temptation, as it was defeated.
The silent planet was earth, where no contact was to be made, because of mans fall.
This could explain Hawkings fears in a differing light

 

[johnsonma]

That was great!

Where does the 1.5% difference come from? "Possibly" Annunaki DNA?

I am guessing genetic mutation and adaption but I don't know for sure.

 

[jsc]

Have you guys ever heard of the Alcubierre drive?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

I first came across that 3 or 4 years ago. A theoretically possible warp drive is intriguing. The only real problem is the energy to generate it. It would take the annual energy budget of the Earth.

 

[johnsonma]

I first came across that 3 or 4 years ago. A theoretically possible warp drive is intriguing. The only real problem is the energy to generate it. It would take the annual energy budget of the Earth.

Few sci fi books I've read have it powered by a mini black hole.
Can't travel faster then light my ass lol, just gotta think outside the box, or in this case outside spacetime.

 

[wanamingo]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/01/religious-compassion-atheists-agnostics_n_1468006.html?ref=science

I didn't want to make a new thread about this so I figured here would be a good fit.

Atheists and agnostics are more driven by compassion to help others than are highly religious people, a new study finds.

That doesn't mean highly religious people don't give, according to the research to be published in the July 2012 issue of the journal Social Psychological and Personality Science. But compassion seems to drive religious people's charitable feelings less than other groups.

"Overall, we find that for less religious people, the strength of their emotional connection to another person is critical to whether they will help that person or not," study co-author and University of California, Berkeley social psychologist Robb Willer said in a statement. "The more religious, on the other hand, may ground their generosity less in emotion, and more in other factors such as doctrine, a communal identity, or reputational concerns."

Do you think altruism and belief in a God go hand in hand? Is altruism genetic?

 

[johnsonma]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/01/religious-compassion-atheists-agnostics_n_1468006.html?ref=science

I didn't want to make a new thread about this so I figured here would be a good fit.

Atheists and agnostics are more driven by compassion to help others than are highly religious people, a new study finds.

That doesn't mean highly religious people don't give, according to the research to be published in the July 2012 issue of the journal Social Psychological and Personality Science. But compassion seems to drive religious people's charitable feelings less than other groups.

"Overall, we find that for less religious people, the strength of their emotional connection to another person is critical to whether they will help that person or not," study co-author and University of California, Berkeley social psychologist Robb Willer said in a statement. "The more religious, on the other hand, may ground their generosity less in emotion, and more in other factors such as doctrine, a communal identity, or reputational concerns."

Do you think altruism and belief in a God go hand in hand? Is altruism genetic?

Big believer in the nature concept and I would probably agree its mostly genetic with some underlying reasons tied to a person's experiences in life and upbringing. Altruism and a belief in God go hand in hand when you believe in the same God.

 

[dogman_1234]

Altruism? Heard the word, don't know the meaning.

 

[johnsonma]

Somewhat genetic as it pertains to the wider Animal Kingdom. In human society I believe it is taught, but also needs to be exercised on a regular basis like a muscle.

As to the last sentence from Robb Willer, he said

"The more religious, on the other hand, may ground their generosity less in emotion, and more in other factors such as doctrine, a communal identity, or reputational concerns."

may ground their generosity less in emotion...... That also means may not ground their generosity less in emotion........

I do have a good example of this from my hometown. The Lutheran church here takes in homeless people for the night and feeds them if they need it, sometimes up to a week. The second you leave though they give you a bus ticket and make sure you take it out of the city. So it other words they are not doing it out of the good of their heart but because they want to see all homeless people out of their community. Needless to say the homeless people stay away from that church unless its the winter and they need to get to a warmer climate.