Intelligent Design

[wanamingo]

We all can see evolution taking place as 'change over time' and explains the multitude of creatures encountered by Darwin on the Galapagos.

However, evolution alone does not explain the creation of life from nothing but a soup of proteins and amino acids to a complex eyeball.

Its not evolutions job to explain the origins of life, just to walk you through how a single celled organism can become a multicellular world dominating monkey. The job of the exploration of the beginning of life is biopoiesis. The creation of life from inorganic material is so freakin improbable it might as well be impossible but its still possible...... and you know over a long enough time line anything is possible.

It took a billion years for the first single celled organisms to team up! Exciting!

Also have you read into the origins of life or evolution and you disagree with it? Or have you come to your conclusions without bothering to read up on it?

 

[johnsonma]

No, youre close, but not there.
To deny that evolution doesnt exist isnt right.
To deny the weather doesnt change on earth isnt right.

But, making assumptions of how its going to go is wrong.
Im sure those scientists that believed neanderthal was pre human in existence thought they were right as well?
Defining our current stae isnt acceptable on where we are at in said sciences?
You see, once again, your assumptions are flawed.
You cant assume my motives, and then go out and say it has to be this way, or you are wrong.
Thats not how it works.
I can compare these particular sciences to physics, a much more mature science, where we dont see these incredible leaps in knowledge, because the concensus on more things, many things, is solid, and fact based.
So, does physics then make a better argument that there is no God?
No
My whole response to your link was about assumptive behavior, and it still persists.
It would seem there are motives behind this, and not from me, or how I think.
It doesnt make either of us wrong, but a better understanding can be had for all

Science never really assumes that it is right, yes scientists may lean one way or the other but there will always be skeptics trying nonstop to prove you wrong, that is how science progresses and really humanity in general.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Yes, but some things are known, and are known to be right.
Math is a constant, and is used to communicate to any extra terrestrials out there, if ever found.
Thus my pointing towards a math based science. A more mature one.

Like I said John, Im not against these things, but taking up your words:
Science never really assumes that it is right, yes scientists may lean one way or the other but there will always be skeptics trying nonstop to prove you wrong, that is how science progresses and really humanity in general.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

I guess in response to your link, I would say this.
Condemning a belief for its failures, where man doesnt know the mind of God, and makes assumptions about such things, is the same thing as assuming if you believe in God, you think this way, and is just as much a failure in approach and thought.

I guess if people understand this, the gap is just that much closer

 

[dogman_1234]

I will refine it down to a more narrow part of evolution. Do you believe that we evolved from primates to what we are today by God's hand so that we resembled him.

I do not believe God evolved apes into humans.

I believe we were created from the dust of the earth...literally. God breathed in us life, and the first human being, or homo sapien was live. I believe females came from the rib of Adam. They are equal to us. If man is of God, so is woman.

No I do not think that God places doctors in our lives, I think medical school does.

I think so.

I understand where you come from. Let me put it this way: How will we have faith in God and what God has given us if He constantly was intervening? why not let humans interact with humans on all social, psychological, and scientific matter? Why says God does not heal through man? Food for though?

 

[wanamingo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciation - This is actually a well written wikipedia entry about speciation and how it is possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_life

This is slightly confusing Wikipedia entry about the origin of life. And i think it also shows why JDJ can be skeptical. There are a number of prevailing theories about how life could have manifested itself. But none of them are impossible, just improbable.

"God put [dinosaur fossils] here to test our faith!" … I think God put you here to test my faith, dude. Does that bother anybody else, the idea that God might be f*cking with our heads? I have trouble sleeping with that knowledge. Some prankster God runnin' around, [pantomimes digging] "We'll see who believes in me now. I am the Prankster God – I am killing me!"

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Competition wins out goes against many theories, and limits others.
Imagine if all this happened, yet for each early design,, were created the perfect scenario for life?
No competition, the climate and other needs perfect?
That would coalesce all theoroies, but then again, whats the odds of that happening?

 

[dogman_1234]

Trolling much?

 

[johnsonma]

I do not believe God evolved apes into humans.

I believe we were created from the dust of the earth...literally. God breathed in us life, and the first human being, or homo sapien was live. I believe females came from the rib of Adam. They are equal to us. If man is of God, so is woman.



I think so.

I understand where you come from. Let me put it this way: How will we have faith in God and what God has given us if He constantly was intervening? why not let humans interact with humans on all social, psychological, and scientific matter? Why says God does not heal through man? Food for though?

Well nothing I can really say about the first comment.

As far as the second comment goes, do you really believe that without a supreme being we would not have doctors in our life? That he literally feels the need to control and influence us to exercise his will? I cannot believe in this type of thinking, maybe its because I was never forced to go to church as a child.

 

[dogman_1234]

Without a supreme being, where would we get the knowledge? i understand basic biological observation, but where would that curiosity come from?

God does not want to control us. He allows us to dictate our actions. He can, in fact, intervene, but I would think not against a human's free will.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Im always impressed when people discover that older man was much more capable than he originally thought, and discounts his impacts, save for out competing the neanderthals.
They act as if man was so different then as compared to today

 

[johnsonma]

All our knowledge comes from a supreme being??!?!??!?!!? Holy **** you gotta be kidding me! Obviously we cannot possibly comprehend how we got where we are both in biological and technic evolution. Therefore God must of given us the gift of curiosity and is responsible for all that we are, know and will ever be. How people can believe in this kind of stuff that was written before man even knew about the universe around him is beyond my comprehension. It defies all logic and reasoning to satisfy the more complex issues a person must come to terms with in their life. I understand that some people need religion to feel important, special or even to come to terms with their finite existence and other concepts that scare them, but to degrade our existence to the point that nothing we do is of our own merit is just depressing to see.

 

[dogman_1234]

Faith requires no logic.

Those live by faith; those live by logic.

Yes, God did bless us curiosity. Without it, would we ever get to know what He has created?

Would an artist hide his painting from the world...the most beautiful painting, his masterpiece? How would others know how to take his work into heart? How will his work have a profane impact on others, or motivate them to paint beauty as well?

There are those who wish to be closed minded about the universe. There are those, who want to know everything. Then, there are those who take what is given to them and try their best to make the best of it...by magnifying it for all to enjoy. what a wonderful universe it is my friend.

Take it in my friend. Be glad you live in the time you are in now. We have gone so far, so close to so many things. Why would God wish to hide it from us? It is man and his selfish nature to hide God's beautiful work of which He has done.

don't let the man who says that God desires your ignorance. God said no things. the lord wishes for you to know the universe around you. From there, you get closer to Him.

 

[dogman_1234]

Interesting.

 

[dogman_1234]

You thinkin' what I'm thinkin'...?

(HINT: Not Aliens)

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Assuming God is a crutch in ones life, well, God would admire such strength, but again, He is a jealous God, and would still try to bring you to Him.
God will comfort you, He will lift you up, when needed.
He will give you the desire to know Him, and in doing so, give you things you never knew.
Holding back the discoveries we make from Him wont change a thing, and to give Him praise because you discover something will.
Wheres the loss here?
If you say God will slow you down, or make you lazy, take a look at the ten talents in the new testament.
http://bible.org/seriespage/parable-talents-matthew-2514-30-luke-1912-28

 

[johnsonma]

Faith requires no logic.

Those live by faith; those live by logic.

Yes, God did bless us curiosity. Without it, would we ever get to know what He has created?

Would an artist hide his painting from the world...the most beautiful painting, his masterpiece? How would others know how to take his work into heart? How will his work have a profane impact on others, or motivate them to paint beauty as well?

There are those who wish to be closed minded about the universe. There are those, who want to know everything. Then, there are those who take what is given to them and try their best to make the best of it...by magnifying it for all to enjoy. what a wonderful universe it is my friend.

Take it in my friend. Be glad you live in the time you are in now. We have gone so far, so close to so many things. Why would God wish to hide it from us? It is man and his selfish nature to hide God's beautiful work of which He has done.

don't let the man who says that God desires your ignorance. God said no things. the lord wishes for you to know the universe around you. From there, you get closer to Him.

How do you know what God did and did not do? How do you know what he does and does not want? You are just blindly following what people before you have said. Although as you previously stated that is faith, what a tricky subject that idea is.

 

[johnsonma]

Yes, that is a God, at least the Sumerians believed it.

That is Anu, Father of Ea.

"sky-god, the god of heaven, lord of constellations, king of gods, Consort of Antu, spirits and demons, and dwelt in the highest heavenly regions. It was believed that he had the power to judge those who had committed crimes, and that he had created the stars as soldiers to destroy the wicked. His attribute was the royal tiara."

Yup, he was the crystal guy off of Indiana Jones right? Damn aliens couldn't let us figure it out, had to go and spoil the whole story of humanity.

 

[johnsonma]

Assuming God is a crutch in ones life, well, God would admire such strength, but again, He is a jealous God, and would still try to bring you to Him.
God will comfort you, He will lift you up, when needed.
He will give you the desire to know Him, and in doing so, give you things you never knew.
Holding back the discoveries we make from Him wont change a thing, and to give Him praise because you discover something will.
Wheres the loss here?
If you say God will slow you down, or make you lazy, take a look at the ten talents in the new testament.
http://bible.org/seriespage/parable-talents-matthew-2514-30-luke-1912-28

He never gave me the desire to know him, maybe its because I never went to church. Who wrote the new testament anyways? It completely reversed the thinking of the old testament. Do you guys follow both the testaments, just one, or take away ideas and values from both?

 

[wanamingo]

Yes, very entertaining but what do you think of the accurate depiction of the solar system nearly 5000 years ago?

Honestly I dont think aliens have been visiting us, they would be so far advanced that they would have to try and get caught.

I think ancient man had a ton of time on his hands. Lights in the sky every night, some of them change, some are brighter. You observe them over a very long time (Even generations) and you can get a very accurate "Map" of what is moving. There is no reason they couldn't come to that conclusion through observation.

Man figured out how large the earth was 2500 years ago.

 

[wanamingo]

There is such a thing as naked eye astronomy. You can see up to Uranus most times of the year. But, to see Neptune and Mercury you would have to look at just the right times.

You also have to include there is no light pollution anywhere on the planet yet. The night sky must have been amazing.

If your society spends even 200 years studying the night sky you could make a pretty accurate heliocentric model of the solar system. But.... they were also wrong there are only 8 planets.... If they included Pluto in their calculations why didn't they include the larger moons of Jupiter? And also there is no planet X or Niberu. Its a fairy tale.

 

[wanamingo]

I might retract the Neptune statement but it is conceivably visible at certain times and with zero light pollution.

Also after some digging what it could be is the 6 planets visible to the naked eye(Mercury,Venus,Mars,Jupiter, Saturn,Uranus) Plus I guess you can see 4 of Saturn's moons with the naked eye that bring us to ten plus the earth and moon. For a grand total of 12.

 

[dogman_1234]

How do you know what God did and did not do? How do you know what he does and does not want? You are just blindly following what people before you have said. Although as you previously stated that is faith, what a tricky subject that idea is.

That is what faith is. You don't know, but you have a gut instinct that there is whatever you believe in.

If you have a problem with what I believe there is nothing I can do.

Also, I do not blindly try to follow a human willingly. Too much corruption involved.

 

[johnsonma]

Yes, very entertaining but what do you think of the accurate depiction of the solar system nearly 5000 years ago?

I think that there are much more logical explanations for it than aliens. For instance, it is not unheard of for people to take a step backward technologically. Once a civilization disappears the people left behind don't necessarily keep their culture and technological achievements intact long enough for another civilization to pick up where they left off.

 

[johnsonma]

That is what faith is. You don't know, but you have a gut instinct that there is whatever you believe in.

If you have a problem with what I believe there is nothing I can do.

Also, I do not blindly try to follow a human willingly. Too much corruption involved.

You can believe whatever you want to believe, that is what I believe. I am just trying to understand why you believe what you do.