Intelligent Design

[johnsonma]

I can see where this thread is heading.

Rey, seriously consider impending some posts if it gets out of hand.

***

I can see john has a very passionate curiosity to why people believe in a God. This, in my opinion only, has to do whit the fact that we process information differently.

In response to john: If we are designed poorly, shouldn't evolution have taken care of that millions of years ago? Assuming that God was not good at designing and engineering the body, does not mean we are flawed physically. There are reasons we are the way we are! The only flaw I can see is the fact we hurt each other...because we are animals only for ourselves.

"Tell me why are we...so blind to see...that the ones we hurt...are you and me!"

Evolution isn't perfect, once we had our huge brain and developed a spoken language to nurture it, it kind of made up for all other short comings. Evolution isn't necessarily perfect, random adaptations and mutations help one branch of a species survive over another over a long period of time and that can end up leading to yet another diverging evolutionary path. Maybe poorly was a bad word, but given what we now know about biology, which should be absolutely nothing compared to a supreme being, we would be able to design a better body.

Do you believe the statement that God shaped us in his image? You said you didn't believe in evolution correct?

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

One example of evolution in the bible is the serpent

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

I think the Klingons were more spiritual, thus the added organs.
I also think its been said before, that image isnt everything, but spirit is

 

[johnsonma]

How do you guys feel about refusing medical treatment for yourself or a child and relying on your religious faith?

 

[dogman_1234]

Do you believe the statement that God shaped us in his image? You said you didn't believe in evolution correct?

I do believe God has shaped man in His image.

"You said you didn't believe in evolution correct?"

That statement is to dangerous to respond to. What do you mean by 'evolution'. What type of evolution.
I will be willing to respond to it, but logical correctives must be in place to have a conversation before we board the logical fallacy train here.

I feel like that statement is a trap. Please ask me in a more neutral tone, please.

 

[dogman_1234]

How do you guys feel about refusing medical treatment for yourself or a child and relying on your religious faith?

Ever stop and think that God places doctors in out lives to help us indirectly? I don't think He wants to go around curing everyone of cancer...but that is a nice though and prayer at least!

Refusing treatment is not only a matter of stupidity, but could also be a sin. Think about it. You have a disease that may kill others around you. If you knowingly refuse treatment, you may have blood on your hands. At least that what it may seem like. I am not the judge of that, though.

 

[wanamingo]

How do you guys feel about refusing medical treatment for yourself or a child and relying on your religious faith?

My mother works at a Neonatal intensive care unit (really sick / premature babies) and once every few months they get wackos in there who refuse blood transfusions for their kids. Not toddlers like a two day old baby that needs blood. Some of these kids do end up dieing from a completely preventable and treatable disease.

But from their mindset they would rather have a dead baby that went to heaven than a living child that is going to hell.

yeah its F*cked up.

 

[johnsonma]

I do believe God has shaped man in His image.

"You said you didn't believe in evolution correct?"

That statement is to dangerous to respond to. What do you mean by 'evolution'. What type of evolution.
I will be willing to respond to it, but logical correctives must be in place to have a conversation before we board the logical fallacy train here.

I feel like that statement is a trap. Please ask me in a more neutral tone, please.

I will refine it down to a more narrow part of evolution. Do you believe that we evolved from primates to what we are today by God's hand so that we resembled him.

 

[johnsonma]

Ever stop and think that God places doctors in out lives to help us indirectly? I don't think He wants to go around curing everyone of cancer...but that is a nice though and prayer at least!

Refusing treatment is not only a matter of stupidity, but could also be a sin. Think about it. You have a disease that may kill others around you. If you knowingly refuse treatment, you may have blood on your hands. At least that what it may seem like. I am not the judge of that, though.

No I do not think that God places doctors in our lives, I think medical school does.

 

[wanamingo]

Technically we are just big hairless monkeys....

 

[wanamingo]

Fixed it for you.

To that question, I answer yes, I do.

That's why we still have primates around. Technically, they should all have evolved by now just as we have. Unless there was some sort of intervention that took place a long time ago that separated modern humans from primates.

No no no no no. That is not how evolution works.

We didnt evolve from monkeys we ARE monkeys. We share a common ancestor with primates. Hence the 98% comparability with Chimpanzees.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

So what monkeys did the neanderthals come from?

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/53190-third-type-of-ancient-human-interbred-with-our-ancestors
So, how many sons did Noah have?

 

[wanamingo]

@OMG we have (I think) about 3 times the number of base pairs (DNA) as a chicken....

We all evolved from the Great apes. Look at Neanderthals as our brothers in the evolutionary arms race, which we won because our brains are awesome. We share a common ancestor and the popular theory is this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_heidelbergensis but there are several great apes that would could have evolved from. But this is the "Missing Link" the link between Humans and Great Apes.

That link you have raises some interesting points about evolution. Neanderthals and Denovians may have contributed some DNA to our ancestors. If you know what I mean . This makes it a bit trickier to find our exact evolutionary path if you keep banging the neighbors.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

I think evolution is so immature as a science right now, but it is growing in knowledge.
At this point, anything and everything we think we currently know is apt to change.
A speculators dream

 

[wanamingo]

I think evolution is so immature as a science right now, but it is growing in knowledge.
At this point, anything and everything we think we currently know is apt to change.
A speculators dream

What makes evolution immature as a science?

I also think this is a very interesting / touchy subject especially when you look at Johns post about religion and science.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

It could be touchy to some, but their convincing needs to be just that.
Anyways, take neanderthal for example, his dates were o0nce set as pre human, then possibly same time existence, then, hey bro, welcome aboard.

Thats a huge change in a short period of time.
Now some will say it was earlier than this, but the concensus wasnt, and it was those that tought so in the beginning that were obviously right, and kept persuing their direction.

So, how many directions are there currently, and, like physics, where the unified theory? Its too early on yet

 

[johnsonma]

There is a 98% comparability between humans and chickens so that's not really saying anything.

We share dna with every living species, we all evolved together.

 

[johnsonma]

It could be touchy to some, but their convincing needs to be just that.
Anyways, take neanderthal for example, his dates were o0nce set as pre human, then possibly same time existence, then, hey bro, welcome aboard.

Thats a huge change in a short period of time.
Now some will say it was earlier than this, but the concensus wasnt, and it was those that tought so in the beginning that were obviously right, and kept persuing their direction.

So, how many directions are there currently, and, like physics, where the unified theory? Its too early on yet

Ignorance is not a valid argument.

 

[johnsonma]

http://creation.com/galapagos-birds

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

If you assume so, I guess your assumptions are flawed, at least in regards to some.

Understand, Im not arguing against evolution here, Im trying to define its current state.If that somehow discredits its existence, it doesnt in my mind.
Saying God cant do evolution is total ignorance to some, and it too is not a valid argument

 

[johnsonma]

If you assume so, I guess your assumptions are flawed, at least in regards to some.

Understand, Im not arguing against evolution here, Im trying to define its current state.If that somehow discredits its existence, it doesnt in my mind.
Saying God cant do evolution is total ignorance to some, and it too is not a valid argument

You discredit climate science by saying we don's know enough, you discredit evolution because we don't know enough, you discredit science in general because we don't know enough. This is not a valid argument JDJ, doesn't matter how bad you want it to be.

Evolution does explain that creation of life, just because you can't fathom it doesn't mean there is a supreme being behind its creation. This is the exact kind of thinking that is detrimental to the advancement of science.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

No, youre close, but not there.
To deny that evolution doesnt exist isnt right.
To deny the weather doesnt change on earth isnt right.

But, making assumptions of how its going to go is wrong.
Im sure those scientists that believed neanderthal was pre human in existence thought they were right as well?
Defining our current stae isnt acceptable on where we are at in said sciences?
You see, once again, your assumptions are flawed.
You cant assume my motives, and then go out and say it has to be this way, or you are wrong.
Thats not how it works.
I can compare these particular sciences to physics, a much more mature science, where we dont see these incredible leaps in knowledge, because the concensus on more things, many things, is solid, and fact based.
So, does physics then make a better argument that there is no God?
No
My whole response to your link was about assumptive behavior, and it still persists.
It would seem there are motives behind this, and not from me, or how I think.
It doesnt make either of us wrong, but a better understanding can be had for all

 

[wanamingo]

If you assume so, I guess your assumptions are flawed, at least in regards to some.

Understand, Im not arguing against evolution here, Im trying to define its current state.If that somehow discredits its existence, it doesnt in my mind.
Saying God cant do evolution is total ignorance to some, and it too is not a valid argument

Evolution like any science will get more exact as the information comes in. More pieces to the puzzle the better the overall picture is. But its also very relative, we have made huge leaps and bounds since this theory was first postulated.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Exactly, and I believe we will continue to do so.
We know very little about DNA for example, and then to leap into what part it plays into evolution?
As Dr Tyson said, the bio sciences are just incredible.
As a matter of fact, he uses it to tie into his particular science, as man is made of dust, star dust, as everything comes from 1 thing