News Intel's next-gen Nova Lake CPUs will seemingly use a new LGA1954 socket

[Alex/AT]

Wonder why they didn't just make it an even 2000? Future chips can use additional pins for whatever.

Because - obviously - they want to change socket again, forcing everyone to buy more motherboards. One of the reasons i* CPUs are no-go long-term.

 

[ilukey77]

If intel go x3d and can offer something decent I may swap to intel from AMD ..

But they need to work on socket life span efficiency and better than little to no gains generation to generation..

This is why AMD have crushed them even if AMD has some shady sides as well people can see value in a 4 to 5 year socket life

 

[TerryLaze]

This is why AMD have crushed them even if AMD has some shady sides as well people can see value in a 4 to 5 year socket life

AMD has done nothing...
Intels client revenue alone is higher than the revenue for all of AMDs segments put together...
Just because everybody keeps saying it doesn't make it magically be true.
Look at their quarterly reports.

 

[bit_user]

Because - obviously - they want to change socket again, forcing everyone to buy more motherboards.

Coffee Lake changed the socket for effectively no reason, at all. Maybe they increased the power requirements, but the sockets were so similar between Skylake and Coffee Lake that there was at least one industrial board which supported all 4 generations of CPUs!

So, that shows Intel doesn't even need a reason to change the socket. It's a new one every two years, like it or not. The only reason LGA1700 lasted an extra year is that they cancelled Meteor Lake S, at the last minute, and instead gave us a "refresh" of Raptor Lake. Same thing happened with Haswell vs. Broadwell, except that Broadwell was planned to use the same socket, so that didn't mess up their socket cadence.

 

[logainofhades]

AMD has done nothing...
Intels client revenue alone is higher than the revenue for all of AMDs segments put together...
Just because everybody keeps saying it doesn't make it magically be true.
Look at their quarterly reports.

AMD has been outselling Intel in datacenter. That's where the big money is.

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...-the-datacenter-for-the-first-time-in-q4-2024

They have been gaining market share elsewhere. I would suspect the Raptor Lake debacle and the failure that is Arrow Lake are good reasons why.

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...market-share-in-2024-server-passes-25-percent

 

[TerryLaze]

AMD has been outselling Intel in datacenter. That's where the big money is.

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...-the-datacenter-for-the-first-time-in-q4-2024

They have been gaining market share elsewhere. I would suspect the Raptor Lake debacle and the failure that is Arrow Lake are good reasons why.

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...market-share-in-2024-server-passes-25-percent

Yeah, because that's so obviously what the OP is talking about.....
x3d and long socket live is all the rage for servers these days....

And what I said is still true, even with server sales, intels revenue for client alone is higher than AMDs complete revenue, servers included.
You can't keep saying that that's where the money is when there is no (only little) money there...
So, no crushing detected.
Revenue for
q1 2025 = intel 7.6bil for client alone
amd 7.4 EVERYTHING

If intel go x3d and can offer something decent I may swap to intel from AMD ..

But they need to work on socket life span efficiency and better than little to no gains generation to generation..

This is why AMD have crushed them even if AMD has some shady sides as well people can see value in a 4 to 5 year socket life

 

[logainofhades]

Intel still owns the mobile sector. They have lost market-share everywhere else.

Data center is where the money is at. Hence why Nvidia is selling most of its GPU's in that sector vs consumer.



https://ir.amd.com/news-events/pres...-quarter-and-full-year-2024-financial-results

Segment Summary

• Data Center segment revenue in the quarter was a record $3.9 billion, up 69% year-over-year primarily driven by the strong ramp of AMD Instinct™ GPU shipments and growth in AMD EPYC™ CPU sales.
  • For 2024, Data Center segment revenue was a record $12.6 billion, an increase of 94% compared to the prior year, driven by growth in both AMD Instinct and EPYC processors.
• Client segment revenue in the quarter was a record $2.3 billion, up 58% year-over-year primarily driven by strong demand for AMD Ryzen™ processors.
  • For 2024, Client segment revenue was a record $7.1 billion, up 52% compared to the prior year, due to strong demand for AMD Ryzen processors in desktop and mobile.
• Gaming segment revenue in the quarter was $563 million, down 59% year-over-year, primarily due to a decrease in semi-custom revenue.
  • For 2024, Gaming segment revenue was $2.6 billion, down 58% compared to the prior year, primarily due to a decrease in semi-custom revenue.
• Embedded segment revenue in the quarter was $923 million, down 13% year-over-year, as end market demand continues to be mixed.
  • For 2024, Embedded segment revenue was $3.6 billion, down 33% from the prior year, primarily due to customers normalizing their inventory levels.

https://ir.amd.com/news-events/pres...-reports-first-quarter-2025-financial-results

Segment Summary

• Data Center segment revenue in the quarter was $3.7 billion, up 57% year-over-year primarily driven by growth in AMD EPYC™ CPU and AMD Instinct™ GPU sales.
• Client and Gaming segment revenue in the quarter was $2.9 billion, up 28% year-over-year. Client revenue was $2.3 billion, up 68% year-over-year primarily driven by strong demand for the latest “Zen 5” AMD Ryzen™ processors and a richer mix. Gaming revenue was $647 million, down 30% year-over-year primarily due to a decrease in semi-custom revenue.
• Embedded segment revenue in the quarter was $823 million, down 3% year-over-year as demand in end markets remained mixed.

 

[TerryLaze]

Intel still owns the mobile sector. They have lost market-share everywhere else.

Data center is where the money is at. Hence why Nvidia is selling most of its GPU's in that sector vs consumer.

What's your point with all of that?!
You quoted AMD's numbers that are still 7.4bil revenue for q1 2025 for all of their groups put together including server, just as I already said, and intel revenue just for client, so no server, is still 7.6 bil.

No matter how much money you think is in data centers, AMD still made 7.4bil revenue for the total of all of their groups put together.

If you want start explaining how any of that can be considered "crushing" by any means.

 

[bit_user]

What's your point with all of that?!

What's the point in any of this? None of this is about Nova Lake.

 

[ilukey77]

AMD has done nothing...
Intels client revenue alone is higher than the revenue for all of AMDs segments put together...
Just because everybody keeps saying it doesn't make it magically be true.
Look at their quarterly reports.

Terry you constantly champion intel time and time again when they clearly are losing mind and market share to AMD ..

Give up defending their BS and start asking why they are failing ..

We need competition to keep AMD from completely owning the market..

But defending intels Fails and that’s what they are they never change or improve ..

Anyone can read the news they are laying off workers losing markets that they previously owned now all they have is laptops past that AMD owns everything else…

Inefficient cpuss no x3d and terrible socket life span are some of the factors behind why they are losing to AMD..

 

[thestryker]

Anyone can read the news they are laying off workers losing markets that they previously owned now all they have is laptops past that AMD owns everything else…

Inefficient cpuss no x3d and terrible socket life span are some of the factors behind why they are losing to AMD..

This is as inaccurate a take as Terry's are. Intel still has minimum double AMD's CPU market share in server/desktop/mobile. Intel hasn't lost any market, and the increased market share from AMD isn't terribly concerning. What is concerning is the revenue shift because AMD now has a higher percentage of server revenue than market share and they've closed the gap on desktop and mobile. So while the market share can be mostly shrugged off the revenue share cannot because that means in server AMD is now the premium and in desktop/mobile they're equals instead of second tier.

Nobody important to the market cares about socket longevity so that's a non issue. It's also largely the same regarding X3D because premium parts don't make volume. I'd bet X3D has done more marketing damage to Intel than actual monetary damage at this point.

 

[ilukey77]

This is as inaccurate a take as Terry's are. Intel still has minimum double AMD's CPU market share in server/desktop/mobile. Intel hasn't lost any market, and the increased market share from AMD isn't terribly concerning. What is concerning is the revenue shift because AMD now has a higher percentage of server revenue than market share and they've closed the gap on desktop and mobile. So while the market share can be mostly shrugged off the revenue share cannot because that means in server AMD is now the premium and in desktop/mobile they're equals instead of second tier.

Nobody important to the market cares about socket longevity so that's a non issue. It's also largely the same regarding X3D because premium parts don't make volume. I'd bet X3D has done more marketing damage to Intel than actual monetary damage at this point.

Who is buying intel ??
Consoles are using AMD
Handhelds are using AMD
Server is using AMD
Desktops c3d are owning intels
The last core series from intel was a disaster..
13th was decent 14th had issues and failed to do much ..

Wow intel are selling in pre built and laptops !

AMD are still selling in both them places too

 

[thestryker]

Who is buying intel ??
Consoles are using AMD
Handhelds are using AMD
Server is using AMD
Desktops c3d are owning intels
The last core series from intel was a disaster..
13th was decent 14th had issues and failed to do much ..

Wow intel are selling in pre built and laptops !

AMD are still selling in both them places too

Nothing you said here changes the fact that Intel is selling over double AMD in server/desktop/mobile... so I guess I don't get your point.

 

[ilukey77]

Nothing you said here changes the fact that Intel is selling over double AMD in server/desktop/mobile... so I guess I don't get your point.

But their not 🤣

 

[thestryker]

But their not 🤣

Uh.... so you're just making up your own reality then?

This isn't just some made up numbers:

 

[-Fran-]

But their not 🤣

They are. AMD does not have the volume big OEMs need and the tooling for very specific "big corpo" stuff. Namely "spying your employees" stuff... I mean telemetry.

They're working on it and the first domino fell when Dell got up on stage with... I think it was Lisa Su? If AMD can supply Dell, HP, all the mid-sized SIs and then keep the DYI well fed, then Intel will be in danger. So far AMD is happing maximizing margins to keep feeding R&D and other weird things they may be doing.

Will it work long term? Not sure. Intel is still a behemoth; a wounded one, but still big and angry (I think?). Is it working now due to Intel's own problems? Absolutely.

So, no, much like @thestryker is telling you: Intel is still selling a lot more than AMD, but their margins are crumbling rather dangerously, which is the mid/long term worrying sign. This is not even talking/including IDF into the context.

Regards.

 

[ilukey77]

Uh.... so you're just making up your own reality then?

This isn't just some made up numbers:

I forget Tom’s hardware members love their charts 🤣🤣

Or intel fanboys defending there purchases.

While I love my AMD products I’m not going to stop myself from buying intel if they can offer a competitive compelling product but the don’t and haven’t for some time!!

 

[TerryLaze]

We need competition to keep AMD from completely owning the market..

LOL!
And you are saying that I'm championing failure?!?!

One more price increase from TSMC and AMD won't be making any money at all anymore. AMD gets to keep 11% actual money from their revenue (q1 2025) .

Go and read their quarterly reports because just like news anybody can read those but unlike news they are just the numbers without any opinion.

 

[VizzieTheViz]

Wow this went of track pretty badly.

Intel switches sockets more often than AMD does, and that’s a possible point against them for enthusiasts that like to upgrade the cpu in their system.

I don’t like it because I like to build a pc that will last a while, but I can recognize that enthusiasts are only a very small segment of PC users and that even amongst enthusiasts many people never change the cpu in a system.

I can also see the upside to changing sockets often as Intel is never limited by the specs of the socket or chipset they thought up a few cpu generations ago so they’re probably more free in designing their cpus and newer chipsets can bring new features to new builds.

Both Intel and AMD are huge and profitable companies (intel is, as has been pointed out by terrylaze, by far the larger company in almost every dimension) that make cool stuff for us to work and play with.

No need to aggrandize one or the other if one has a streak of products that turn out great or the other has some products that seem rather lackluster. They’ve both had good runs and bad ones a very probably will again.

 

[bit_user]

Intel hasn't lost any market,

I'm waiting to see what their next HPC chip looks like, if they make one. Right now, I'd say they pretty much lost HPC, since they have zero new products for it since Sapphire Rapids w/ HBM and Ponte Vecchio. Not sure about the first, but the second is EOL.

We also have yet to see which products fall victim to the 50% gross margin policy. That could force them out of other markets.

the increased market share from AMD isn't terribly concerning. What is concerning is the revenue shift because AMD now has a higher percentage of server revenue than market share

I think the loss of market share is definitely a problem, but what you cite elevates it from a problem to a crisis.

I'd bet X3D has done more marketing damage to Intel than actual monetary damage at this point.

It could be hurting them in HPC and high-end cloud workloads. Don't forget that X3D exists in servers, also.

 

[bit_user]

Wow this went of track pretty badly.

Yeah, whenever someone resorts to talking about company financials, they're basically admitting defeat on the technical side of the argument. It's one step away from hurling personal attacks.

I think the best thing to do is call them out on it and don't engage. I did chip in, but at least talking about product offerings brings it semi-back into the technical realm.

Intel switches sockets more often than AMD does, and that’s a possible point against them for enthusiasts that like to upgrade the cpu in their system.

I just bought a 9600X, for reasons I won't go into. The board basically came with the CPU (bundle deal) and isn't one I'd have chosen, but it's not bad. I don't mind its flaws, because I expect I'll be replacing it with whatever the chipset they launch with Zen 6. If AM5 didn't have such longevity, I probably wouldn't have gone for the deal and would have no Zen 5 CPU today, because I don't exactly love the AM5 platform right now. But, the hope of improvements and getting onto the upgrade ladder for it proved too tempting and gave me reasons to overlook its shortcomings.

Similarly, I have a LGA 1700 board w/ Alder Lake i5 and I'm willing to consider upgrading that machine to Bartlett Lake. So, there are two examples: one on each side.

You're right to call this out as an "enthusiast" thing. Yes, it is, and I never previously upgraded a CPU without the motherboard (although I don't usually do upgrades more often than say major DDR standards).

I can also see the upside to changing sockets often as Intel is never limited by the specs of the socket or chipset they thought up a few cpu generations ago so they’re probably more free in designing their cpus and newer chipsets can bring new features to new builds.

IMO, we didn't need the Arrow Lake socket's "features". It added a CPU-direct PCIe 5.0 x4 lane, but they could've still upgraded the existing x4 lane from PCIe 4.0 to 5.0 and then added another PCIe 4.0 x4 lane to the chipset.

AMD does this - increasing PCIe revs without changing sockets. Intel has previously done it, too.

You just have to accept that Intel's socket cadence is what it is. As enthusiasts, we know about it and can take it into account. I don't really see a point in arguing, though. It won't change anything.

Both Intel and AMD are huge and profitable companies

Errr... Intel fell out of the "profitable" category, recently. Did you not notice how they changed CEOs and have been laying off lots of employees?

 

[VizzieTheViz]

Errr... Intel fell out of the "profitable" category, recently. Did you not notice how they changed CEOs and have been laying off lots of employees?

Yeah they’re restructuring but as far as I know they’re still turning a profit. Not as much as expected maybe or not as much as shareholders would like, but still literally billions of profit.

 

[bit_user]

Yeah they’re restructuring but as far as I know they’re still turning a profit. Not as much as expected maybe or not as much as shareholders would like, but still literally billions of profit.

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...lion-in-q3-reports-usd13-3-billion-in-revenue
​

 

[VizzieTheViz]

​

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...lion-in-q3-reports-usd13-3-billion-in-revenue​

​

Ouch you’re right. 2024 was profitable overall, but the last couple of quarters have been brutal for them. Restructuring is expensive I guess.

 

[bit_user]

Restructuring is expensive I guess.

Restructuring largely means layoffs (or, at least, that's where most of the associated expenses come from). They do it because it's cheaper than the alternative of not cutting back. If they could've sustained the prior workforce, they wouldn't have made such drastic cuts. Gelsinger (previous CEO) got ousted over the company's poor performance.