Question Is It Legal To Refurbish Computers With Windows 10 On Them?

[System32_76]

So I heard that someone named Eric Lundgren, who had a business recycling computers, served a year in prison for selling Windows restore discs provided by different computer manufacturers.

What I've been doing to refurbish computers is take a flash drive with Windows 10 on it, plug it in to a PC, and install it. I would repeat the same process with other computers.
Should I not be doing this? Is what I mentioned doing here illegal?

 

[USAFRet]

So I heard that someone named Eric Lundgren, who had a business recycling computers, served a year in prison for selling Windows restore discs provided by different computer manufacturers.

What I've been doing to refurbish computers is take a flash drive with Windows 10 on it, plug it in to a PC, and install it. I would repeat the same process with other computers.
Should I not be doing this? Is what I mentioned doing here illegal?

The Win 10 install is free, direct from MS. You can use the same one on a hundred different systems.
The license is the part that costs money.

So....where the license comes from is the crucial point.

 

[System32_76]

The Win 10 install is free, direct from MS. You can use the same one on a hundred different systems.
The license is the part that costs money.

So....where the license comes from is the crucial point.

Well, in this case, I'm not using a license. I'd be selling them unlicensed. During setup/installation, I would click "I don't have a product key," which would allow the user to use Windows unlicensed, which is legitimately legal.

 

[USAFRet]

Well, in this case, I'm not using a license. I'd be selling them unlicensed. During setup/installation, I would click "I don't have a product key," which would allow the user to use Windows unlicensed, which is legitimately legal.

That is NO problem. Not illegal.
Any license purchase is up to the eventual owner.

 

[System32_76]

That is NO problem. Not illegal.
Any license purchase is up to the eventual owner.

Ok, that's good to know.
Are there any other Windows 10 legal issues I should know about when it comes to refurbishing PCs
so I don't get in trouble with Microsoft?

 

[King_V]

I think that, when you boot up the PC, you should check the Properties on This PC, and see if it indicates that it's unactivated. If so, then you should very explicitly state that you're selling without an activated Windows 10 license, and that it is up to the user to get a valid license.

You don't want anyone coming after you and accusing you of being misleading.

If it does NOT say that it's unactivated, then maybe it's retaining whatever license was installed and tied to the motherboard at the time of the first install? But that would imply an OEM license on a machine rather than a business volume license (I think . . I'm not really sure how the business/volume licenses work).

 

[USAFRet]

If it does NOT say that it's unactivated, then maybe it's retaining whatever license was installed and tied to the motherboard at the time of the first install? But that would imply an OEM license on a machine rather than a business volume license (I think . . I'm not really sure how the business/volume licenses work).

I bought a refurb laptop last year. (3rd party reseller on Newegg)
Listing said WIndows 10.
It cane with Win 10 Pro, fully activated.
On a $180 laptop, I thought that a bit odd, but it made NO reference to VLK or anything.
Just "Activated".

Exactly 6 months later, poof, Unactivated.
The Win 10 Pro they installed was a corporate license, and needed to check in with its ruling corporate license server at least once every 6 months.
Being unable to, it uactivated itself.

Needless to say, one very irate customer, me.
Multiple back and forth between me, them and Asus resuted in Asus finally giving me the original license key it came with...for Win 10 Home.
Of course, that license was useless to reactivate the Win 10 Pro that was installed.
The reseller did not want to take any responsibility, stating that I was outside the 30 day repair or refund window.
Eventually, "Can we interest you in a $20 credit for your troubles?"

Needless to say, Always.Deals at Newegg will be getting no more of my business.

--------------------------------
Bottom line - Be careful of what you install and how.

 

[TerryLaze]

Ok, that's good to know.
Are there any other Windows 10 legal issues I should know about when it comes to refurbishing PCs
so I don't get in trouble with Microsoft?

You are copying windows and making money off of that, as far as I know this is what copyright was made for.
You are not licenced to make/sell copies of windows,as an end user you can install windows without a licence because you are not selling it to anybody.

 

[King_V]

I don't think that's what @System32_76 is doing - unless I've misread something, these are existing PCs, and I get the impression that they already had an OS on them before they were refurbished.

 

[TerryLaze]

I don't think that's what @System32_76 is doing - unless I've misread something, these are existing PCs, and I get the impression that they already had an OS on them before they were refurbished.

Unless he keeps the hardware untouched and the original licence stays put it's illegal and from what he's saying that's not what he is doing he is fresh installing windows and skipping the licencing.

What I've been doing to refurbish computers is take a flash drive with Windows 10 on it, plug it in to a PC, and install it

Well, in this case, I'm not using a license. I'd be selling them unlicensed. During setup/installation, I would click "I don't have a product key," which would allow the user to use Windows unlicensed, which is legitimately legal.

 

[USAFRet]

I'm still not convinced "copyright" comes into play.
The Windows 10 install is freely obtainable from MS.

The license is the part that costs money.
Which he is not providing.

 

[TerryLaze]

I'm still not convinced "copyright" comes into play.
The Windows 10 install is freely obtainable from MS.

The license is the part that costs money.
Which he is not providing.

It's not like they released windows on github as open source,it still comes with an end user agreement that prevents you from making any sort of copies for financial gain,you are allowed to make one backup copy for yourself and that's it.

c. Restrictions. The device manufacturer or installer and Microsoft reserve all rights (such as rights under intellectual property laws) not expressly granted in this agreement. For example, this license does not give you any right to, and you may not:

(ii) publish, copy (other than the permitted backup copy), rent, lease, or lend the software;

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/Useterms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm

(Actually it also doesn't allow you to use windows without activating it but nobody is going to check that)

 

[USAFRet]

Right. That is absolutely copyright via MS.
You cannot sell a license without the rights to do so. And all the other stuff that comes with transferring a license.
"One backup copy" would refer to the installed SO and the license.




The install of Windows and leaving it Unactivated is somewhat unclear.
Previous versions, there was an absolute restriction, enforced by the 30 day time limit. After which it went into various levels of 'doesn't work'.

Win 10 does not do that.
It runs, seemingly forever, Unactivated. With the known restrictions.
Watermark, no customization of the desktop or taskbar.

The buyer of such a system like this is on the hook to purchase a license. ANd it is required to, to continue using the software.
However...the OP is selling the hardware with an Unactivated OS install.
He's not selling a license, nor advertising that it comes with a validated license.

 

[System32_76]

Right. That is absolutely copyright via MS.
You cannot sell a license without the rights to do so. And all the other stuff that comes with transferring a license.
"One backup copy" would refer to the installed SO and the license.




The install of Windows and leaving it Unactivated is somewhat unclear.
Previous versions, there was an absolute restriction, enforced by the 30 day time limit. After which it went into various levels of 'doesn't work'.

Win 10 does not do that.
It runs, seemingly forever, Unactivated. With the known restrictions.
Watermark, no customization of the desktop or taskbar.

The buyer of such a system like this is on the hook to purchase a license. ANd it is required to, to continue using the software.
However...the OP is selling the hardware with an Unactivated OS install.
He's not selling a license, nor advertising that it comes with a validated license.

To make this clear for everyone, I'm using the Windows 10 installation media that I created with the Media Creation Tool from Microsoft. I take that same installation media, put it on a flash drive, plug it in to a PC and install Windows 10 from there, completely unlicensed (During the Windows Setup, you click "I don't have a product key." That's how you install Windows 10 without a license legitimately). I'm not selling Windows 10 licenses, but selling computers that I put unlicensed versions of Windows 10 on specifically.
I'd be selling computers like this: "2007 Dell Optiplex GX--- Windows 10 - UNLICENSED"

 

[USAFRet]

To make this clear for everyone,...

Right.
That's the way I read it from the start.

 

[System32_76]

Right.
That's the way I read it from the start.

So I'm in the clear with what I'm doing then?

 

[USAFRet]

So I'm in the clear with what I'm doing then?

As far as I'm concerned, yes.

 

[System32_76]

As far as I'm concerned, yes.

Yeah, I'm not selling any licenses. I'm basically installing Windows 10 on computers that I'm refurbishing and selling the PCs on eBay.

Moving on, another question I wanted to ask is that if I were to put a fresh install of Windows 10 on a PC, install some utility programs, and tweak some Windows settings, will creating a system image retain those programs I installed along with the settings I tweaked? The reason I ask is because it is very tedious to install Windows 10 on one PC at a time, and do all of that manually.

 

[TerryLaze]

Yeah, I'm not selling any licenses. I'm basically installing Windows 10 on computers that I'm refurbishing and selling the PCs on eBay.

You are not selling licenses but you are publishing and copying the OS.
You are also providing a working version of windows were the end user doesn't even have to look at the EULA,you are personally clicking on the agree button on each installations EULA,this makes it much more valid for you to get charged for full licenses.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/Useterms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm

Installation and Use Rights.

a. License. The software is licensed, not sold. Under this agreement, we grant you the right to install and run one instance of the software on your device

Legalese for we grant you the right to install and run one instance of the software on your device only if you have a license.

 

[System32_76]

You are not selling licenses but you are publishing and copying the OS.
You are also providing a working version of windows were the end user doesn't even have to look at the EULA,you are personally clicking on the agree button on each installations EULA,this makes it much more valid for you to get charged for full licenses.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/Useterms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm

Legalese for we grant you the right to install and run one instance of the software on your device only if you have a license.

c. Restrictions. The device manufacturer or installer and Microsoft reserve all rights (such as rights under intellectual property laws) not expressly granted in this agreement. For example, this license does not give you any right to, and you may not:

(ii) publish, copy (other than the permitted backup copy), rent, lease, or lend the software;

According to what this says here, it sounds like I may not publish, copy, rent, lease, or lend the software if and only if I have a license.

 

[TerryLaze]

According to what this says here, it sounds like I may not publish, copy, rent, lease, or lend the software if and only if I have a license.

Yes all these only apply if you have a license but you need a license to legally use the software in any way which includes installing it.
"5. Authorized Software and Activation. You are authorized to use this software only if you are properly licensed and the software has been properly activated with a genuine product key or by other authorized method. "

 

[System32_76]

Yes all these only apply if you have a license but you need a license to legally use the software in any way which includes installing it.
"5. Authorized Software and Activation. You are authorized to use this software only if you are properly licensed and the software has been properly activated with a genuine product key or by other authorized method. "

Am I stuck either way? Sounds like I can't easily sell computers unlicensed because of this whole authorization thing. And it also sounds like I can't sell them licensed either because if I were to use my Windows 10 installation media on my flash drive to install Windows onto different PCs and get a license for each one, I'd be technically copying the software according to the ToS. Is this all correct?

 

[USAFRet]

Am I stuck either way? Sounds like I can't easily sell computers unlicensed because of this whole authorization thing. And it also sounds like I can't sell them licensed either because if I were to use my Windows 10 installation media on my flash drive to install Windows onto different PCs and get a license for each one, I'd be technically copying the software according to the ToS. Is this all correct?

To sell them licensed, you'd purchase a new license for each system.
~$100US each.

The MediaCreation tool is universal and agnostic. You can use the same one on multiple systems

 

[TerryLaze]

I were to use my Windows 10 installation media on my flash drive to install Windows onto different PCs and get a license for each one, I'd be technically copying the software according to the ToS. Is this all correct?

If you buy a license for each system you can transfer that license if you follow the guidelines,but yeah you would have to pay for each one.
A much better idea is to just put a version of linux on them and maybe put a link to a youtube tutorial on how to install windows if they want to.
"b. Stand-alone software. If you acquired the software as stand-alone software (and also if you upgraded from software you acquired as stand-alone software), you may transfer the software to another device that belongs to you. You may also transfer the software to a device owned by someone else if (i) you are the first licensed user of the software and (ii) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement. You may use the backup copy we allow you to make or the media that the software came on to transfer the software. Every time you transfer the software to a new device, you must remove the software from the prior device. You may not transfer the software to share licenses between devices. "

 

[System32_76]

If you buy a license for each system you can transfer that license if you follow the guidelines,but yeah you would have to pay for each one.
A much better idea is to just put a version of linux on them and maybe put a link to a youtube tutorial on how to install windows if they want to.
"b. Stand-alone software. If you acquired the software as stand-alone software (and also if you upgraded from software you acquired as stand-alone software), you may transfer the software to another device that belongs to you. You may also transfer the software to a device owned by someone else if (i) you are the first licensed user of the software and (ii) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement. You may use the backup copy we allow you to make or the media that the software came on to transfer the software. Every time you transfer the software to a new device, you must remove the software from the prior device. You may not transfer the software to share licenses between devices. "

Let me rephrase that; if I were to take the Windows 10 installation media I created with my flash drive, plug it in to one PC individually at a time, install Windows 10 to each one, and buy a license for each Windows installation on each PC, I'm copying the software, right?