[SOLVED] It's worse than I thought. My 1st Build's CPU is running HOT! Like, 100c hot.

[PurpleChange]

SO much regret. As deep as I am in now I could have bought a prebuilt with better specs. Oh well, I'm learning a lot.

I got the basics together; it posted, unlicensed (let's not go there) WIN10Home loaded, BIOS updated, Main drivers installed.
Here's my build: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/hL79vW

I installed GeForce Experience, NVIDIA Control Panel, Steam and Origin and started Playing SWBF2. After a while I noticed the exhaust was pretty hot so I installed Open Hardware Monitor and Holy Heart Attack! CPU Package 103.5c and CPU CCD #1 102.3c! (I have no idea what those really even mean) I'm assuming that's too hot.

I've OC'd nothing except my RAM to it's specs. This morning I played around with the fan settings in the BIOS and really boosted them. It's helped a little but not much. Another quick session of SWBF2 ran it in the 90's, it spiked over 100 a few times. Just windows, chrome and OHM running right now, CPU total load under 3% and it's running at 70c.

Obviously I need more fans at least. I thought that only the 2 included case fans may run a little warm but with no OCing and it being a fairly mild system, as I understand it, it didn't expect it to run that hot.

I don't think this is an airflow issue. It also seems I've done something wrong or not done something right.

I read some articles and forum posts about voltages and the Ryzen 3600 but I didn't understand them. You'll really have to talk to me like I'm stupid. I'm in over my head. The Youtube videos make it look easy.

Any ideas on where to start, or what I can tell you to help you help me?

I'd really appreciate it. It would be a real bummer if I blew this build.

 

[PurpleChange]

You know, I have my laptop with a cam. I could set it up and point it at my BIOS screen. If anyone wanted to do something like that. It would take me a while for me to set it up. It's a thought.

 

[PurpleChange]

Look at this: Those power values are correct now? Maybe I did something right.

 

[Karadjgne]

That looks way better

 

[PurpleChange]

That looks way better

YEAH! I'm so burnt, guys. I'm quitting on a win. I have 2 episodes of Westworld and to watch and 1600mg of Ibuprofen in me. I must lay down.

Tomorrow I'll run stress tests and we'll see where we are.

Guys, this is the first night that I feel I moved forward to my goal, no reflection on any of you. I'm going to sleep well.

I wish I could buy you all a beer. Even though I haven't had a drink in 6 years I'd love to watch you enjoy it. Cheers!

I've looked for a contribution page - can't find it. If anyone has that info, I'd appreciate it.

'Night.

 

[ttower2020]

I'm baffled at how I did this. I was so cautious. How long has it been since you guys have seen someone blow it this bad?

Its surprisingly common that people pull the CPU out with the cooler. The pins are not locked in place vertically, really. The pins are pinched from the sides to hold them steady, and the cooler provides pressure to hold the CPU in the socket. Look very carefully up each row of CPU pins, in both directions. Look to see if any are bent. Hopefully none are, if they are, you can bend it back, there are youtube videos about this. Also see if any are missing, which I dont think is likely. Try to take the cpu off the heatsink by rotating the CPU a little. Push gently on the corner of the CPU, and it should break free from the paste. You can then pick it up, and make sure to clean the CPU and heatsink with alcohol, mentioned above.

When you put the CPU back in, dont push it down, but give it a little wiggle to make sure it is seated in the motherboard properly.

For reinstalling the cooler, get all the cooler screws threaded into the backplate before tightening any of them. Tighten each screw just a little at a time, going from corner to opposite corner, also mentioned above. Eventually, the screws will bottom out. Do not force them tighter, but make sure each screw bottoms out. This should make the cooler be mounted evenly and correctly. Good luck, and consider an aftermarket cooler might have different mounting procedure, check the manuals.

 

[drea.drechsler]

OK, I'm realizing that things are getting lost in translation. From now on I will post pics of my BIOS because it's difficult to follow instructions or interpret results for another mobo & BIOS.

Platform Thermal Throttle limit didn't have the options to set a max and preferred. It only took two digits, only numbers.
When I choose Advanced to set the Platform Thermal Limit, it defaults the PBO to Enhanced 1.

here is a shot of voltage settings, maybe it will provide insight? Sorry about the quality.

And this is my exit screen showing changes:

I get the feeling that that isn't what you asked me to do. But it's as close as I was able to get? We can always go back. I'm not doing anything until I get this one confirmed. No rush. I'm chillin'.

That's exactly what I suggested .

And from the latest screen shot it looks like it's working too. If you ran that game again I would expect that temps will average no higher than 90C, because the platform limit was set there. If so, while that's still high you're not bouncing off the 95C Tjmax and getting a better cooler should keep your temps in the mid to upper 70's under heavy processing loads.

The 'MAXIMUM and PREFERRED' I added to mean the maximum you should set is 90C, but I'd prefer 85C. 85C may limit performance now but with the new cooler it really shouldn't matter as it shouldn't normally get there.

And did you get the CPU-z utility? It will be a more useful stress test to run to see how the CPU and it's cooler is performing thermally. It's more useful because it doesn't use the GPU like that game is and so not limiting the cooling potential of the stock cooler by the hot air that GPU is going to be putting out.

 

[PurpleChange]

That's exactly what I suggested .

And from the latest screen shot it looks like it's working too. If you ran that game again I would expect that temps will average no higher than 90C, because the platform limit was set there. If so, while that's still high you're not bouncing off the 95C Tjmax and getting a better cooler should keep your temps in the mid to upper 70's under heavy processing loads.

The 'MAXIMUM and PREFERRED' I added to mean the maximum you should set is 90C, but I'd prefer 85C. 85C may limit performance now but with the new cooler it really shouldn't matter as it shouldn't normally get there.

And did you get the CPU-z utility? It will be a more useful stress test to run to see how the CPU and it's cooler is performing thermally. It's more useful because it doesn't use the GPU like that game is and so not limiting the cooling potential of the stock cooler by the hot air that GPU is going to be putting out.

Stress test was first on my list today but I got distracted by an intelligent comment on the AMD forum that I've been trying to interpret. I'm curious what you guys think of this(interesting in bold):

alseu said, "
...Power consumption of your cpu is fine and doesn't exceed expected limits.
This screenshot was taken after running Prime95 small FFTs (max powerdraw/heat) test for a few minutes on Ryzen 3600 with the box cooler. The maximum value of Core+SoC was ~102W (similar to yours) though i got the screen prior to that moment. *Weird that i can't reproduce it.

When mentioning limits i believe you are talking about the 65watt value which is the official "TDP" specification for Ryzen 3600. AMD/Intel create their own definitions of TDP for their products and calculate (or simply choose) the number based on marketing purposes rather than technical. This value is not a limit of how much power the CPU can draw from a wall at stock operation. You can check a very detailed article on that topic at gamersnexus.net

My opinion regarding your issue is that your particular CPU is defective. It looks like there is no proper contact between the cpu die and the cap within your processor (these are supposed to be soldered inside Ryzen 3600)...

...Good luck"

Interesting. Don't understand it yet but interesting.

Stress tests coming.

 

[drea.drechsler]

...
When mentioning limits i believe you are talking about the 65watt value which is the official "TDP" ...

NO...TDP is a 'made up' thermal rating that is SUPPOSED to provide an indicator of how much thermal energy the processor will throw off to help size a cooler. It is NOT related to the electrical power consumption of the CPU. AMD's TDP rating isn't even derived the same way as Intel's TDP ratings so they can't realistically be compared. The PBO limits I'm referring too...PPT in particular (Performance Power Threshold? not sure)... is the electrical power drawn from the VRM or voltage regulator that powers the CPU.

Also: the accuracy of electrical current and electrical power consumption readings in those reports is always something of a doubt. Reason being, you can't directly measure current easily so it has to be inferred from processor characteristics. Voltage, on the other hand, can be measured. Electrical power is a function of voltage and current, so insofar as current is uncertain so goes the power readouts too. It's the best we got, but consider it an estimate at best.

As far as the conclusion that poster made, I have no basis to assess his opinion. I am aware, however, that these CPU's are tested extensively before leaving the factory, though, to determine just what FIT values to assign. How something like that can be missed is a mystery to me as temp rise under controlled test parameters (much better controlled than we can achieve) is something that would be very obvious in an automated testing process.

 

[PurpleChange]

OK, I'm about to ask some stupid questions. I installed CPU-Z 1.92.0 I haven't exactly figured out what to do with it.

But first thing I notice is: Core Speed: hovering at 4199MHz
3600 base clock is 3.6GHz, Max boost is 4.2GHz

Uhhhh.

Am I OCing? I never wanted to do that. How do I undo that immediately? Is my warranty void?

 

[PurpleChange]

And really unsure of what to make of CPU-Z. I can click "stress CPU" and then what? How long do i let that run? Should I be running that with HWiNFO?

Geez, this PC stuff is hard. How do you guys do it?

 

[drea.drechsler]

OK, I'm about to ask some stupid questions. I installed CPU-Z 1.92.0 I haven't exactly figured out what to do with it.

But first thing I notice is: Core Speed: hovering at 4199MHz
3600 base clock is 3.6GHz, Max boost is 4.2GHz

Uhhhh.

Am I OCing? I never wanted to do that. How do I undo that immediately? Is my warranty void?

It's just boosting at the moment. the processor is highly dynamic, making boost/idle/sleep decisions for each of 6 cores up to 100 times a second. It's really hard to determine anything meaningful from that reading when it's only updating once or twice a second beyond "ok...it's boosting as intended! that's good".

Open HWInfo to the monitoring screen. Or RyzenMaster, that's OK too. Now switch back to CPUz, click on the BENCH tab at top. Click on the STRESS button and look at the temperature readings what they're doing; in HWInfo the one to look at is the one that says CPU Die (average).

 

[PurpleChange]

It's just boosting at the moment. the processor is highly dynamic, making boost/idle/sleep decisions for each of 6 cores up to 100 times a second. It's really hard to determine anything meaningful from that reading when it's only updating once or twice a second beyond "ok...it's boosting as intended! that's good".

Open HWInfo to the monitoring screen. Or RyzenMaster, that's OK too. Now switch back to CPUz, click on the BENCH tab at top. Click on the STRESS button and look at the temperature readings what they're doing; in HWInfo the one to look at is the one that says CPU Die (average).

Gotcha. I'm really not stupid, just tech stupid.

 

[PurpleChange]

90c flat. If I went back to BIOS and set that maximum to 85c, it would stop there wouldn't it?

This is all starting to make more sense.

More stupid: What is the relationship between my CPUs base clock speed and the peak speed shown in Ryzen master and core speed in CPU-Z.

I'm still trying to figure out how it seems (to me) to be OC'd. I just want to understand.

 

[PurpleChange]

And in what ways does limiting the temp at 90c (or 85c) effect performance? I know I shouldn't care about that at this point but I'm curious.

 

[RobbeyRobert]

funny thread )

 

[RobbeyRobert]

My worst nightmare.

I unscrewed until the back brackets fell off the back of the mobo (now I have to take it all apart lol). And despite all my gentle tugging the heatsink would not come off the CPU. I checked to make sure there was absolutely nothing still holding it on and then tugged a little harder.

The CPU came out with heatsink!

I can't get the CPU off the heatsink. I haven't tried too hard because I'm scared. I tugged gently around the endges but I'm so afraid to touch the pins.

How did the CPU unseat? The bar was down. How could it run if it was seated properly in it's holder thingy?

What damage have I done?

How do I get the CPU off the heatsink? I don't want to pry it off.

I am freaking out. I can't afford to replace this CPU.

help?

Very funny to see somebody actually this clumsy ) 😀

(IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE ALREADY )
Take a flat screw driver or a knife (JUST DON'T CUT URSELF ) and gently put it between the cooler and the CPU and gently but not too gently, force it inside, so it get's off the glued tooth paste u put there, it might be dried out glued together due to the heat it was exposed too.. then CLEAN it with alcohol if you have or use just some simple paper towel and wipe it off of both sides CPU/Coooler, put fresh GLUE back on the CPU and put the cooler on it, I'D hardly suggest you install/GPU/MOBO Drivers of NEWEST if possible, AND even do BIOS update to your MOBO ( BUT !!! IF YOU DON'T DO IT CORRECTLY You is surely going to brick it.. so maybe don't try the bios update, it's just that some boards have problems w temperatures and updating fixes the temps a LITTLE.)

And if it's really that hot you could put it in the fridge, no ?? ) joking..
JUST UNDERVOLT the sh.. out of IT !! Until it crashes, then raise a little, and TEST the thing for a few hours w Prime95, mine got really cool after undervolting.. it's running w stock and never goes above 64C and NO i don't live in antarctica.

 

[PurpleChange]

Very funny to see somebody actually this clumsy ) 😀

(IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE ALREADY )
Take a flat screw driver or a knife (JUST DON'T CUT URSELF ) and gently put it between the cooler and the CPU and gently but not too gently, force it inside, so it get's off the glued tooth paste u put there, it might be dried out glued together due to the heat it was exposed too.. then CLEAN it with alcohol if you have or use just some simple paper towel and wipe it off of both sides CPU/Coooler, put fresh GLUE back on the CPU and put the cooler on it, I'D hardly suggest you install/GPU/MOBO Drivers of NEWEST if possible, AND even do BIOS update to your MOBO ( BUT !!! IF YOU DON'T DO IT CORRECTLY You is surely going to brick it.. so maybe don't try the bios update, it's just that some boards have problems w temperatures and updating fixes the temps a LITTLE.)

And if it's really that hot you could put it in the fridge, no ?? ) joking..
JUST UNDERVOLT the sh.. out of IT !! Until it crashes, then raise a little, and TEST the thing for a few hours w Prime95, mine got really cool after undervolting.. it's running w stock and never goes above 64C and NO i don't live in antarctica.

LOL. Yeah, I got that all back together. "Give it a little twist" is a piece of information that came a few minutes too late.

Undervolting is something I've been reading/watching about. All the info I'm getting seems outdated in that drivers were supposed to be released to solve some of these problems since? So I've been reluctant until I understand that better.

 

[drea.drechsler]

90c flat. If I went back to BIOS and set that maximum to 85c, it would stop there wouldn't it?

This is all starting to make more sense.

More stupid: What is the relationship between my CPUs base clock speed and the peak speed shown in Ryzen master and core speed in CPU-Z.

I'm still trying to figure out how it seems (to me) to be OC'd. I just want to understand.

That looks very typical for a 3600 at a maximum all-core processing load. While it looks scary with reds and yellows, the PPT, TDC and EDC numbers are just shy of their limits just like it should be. The temperature is limited to 90C just like it should be since you set it there.

The processor will lower the 'average' clock to keep the temperature within that 90C limit. If you lowered the Platform Thermal limit further, to 85 C, I would expect the clock speed to be lower still from what I'm seeing...which is 3882 Mhz in Ryzenmaster. And that it's lowered clock to 3882 alone is an indication that you are not overclocking.

 

[drea.drechsler]

...
Undervolting is something I've been reading/watching about. All the info I'm getting seems outdated in that drivers were supposed to be released to solve some of these problems since? So I've been reluctant until I understand that better.

Undervolting might be helpful for you, or might not. But you have to be careful how you do it on Ryzen processors or you can seriously kill performance without realizing it. To assess whether it's helping you have to take some controlled benchmark numbers both in lightly threaded workload and heavy multithreaded and compare them before and after undervolting.

One thing I note is that at 3882Mhz in that RM screen your core voltage is 1.23699V...that's really, really low. The processor is, again, pulling back voltage as it should along with frequency as it gets hot under voltage. So no, you're not overclocking.

If that were mine I'd just lower the limit to 85C and call it a day. But if I wanted to maximize performance for 24/7 intensive processing (like Folding@Home) I'd get a much, much better cooler and let the processor do it's thing. It's a great system as far as I can tell, just not enough cooling on the CPU.

 

[PurpleChange]

I believe I've misunderstood the meaning of base and max clock speed. I thought the CPU ran at or under base and could be OC'd to max. But it's really the CPU operates between base and max clock speeds and OCing actually moving beyond that max clock speed? Right?

 

[PurpleChange]

Undervolting might be helpful for you, or might not. But you have to be careful how you do it on Ryzen processors or you can seriously kill performance without realizing it. To assess whether it's helping you have to take some controlled benchmark numbers both in lightly threaded workload and heavy multithreaded and compare them before and after undervolting.

One thing I note is that at 3882Mhz in that RM screen your core voltage is 1.23699V...that's really, really low. The processor is, again, pulling back voltage as it should along with frequency as it gets hot under voltage. So no, you're not overclocking.

If that were mine I'd just lower the limit to 85C and call it a day. But if I wanted to maximize performance for 24/7 intensive processing (like Folding@Home) I'd get a much, much better cooler and let the processor do it's thing. It's a great system as far as I can tell, just not enough cooling on the CPU.

That is precisely what I've been reading/watching. Does it really improve performance and how do you measure it are the big questions.

I'm with you. I'm moving that down to 85c (at least until all the cooling stuff is here).

I'm now trying to understand how Precision Boost Overdrive works. I had to enable that to set a max CPU temp. Why? Is there another place to set a max temp without PBO? Curious how or why the temp setting is attached to PBO.

 

[drea.drechsler]

I believe I've misunderstood the meaning of base and max clock speed. I thought the CPU ran at or under base and could be OC'd to max. But it's really the CPU operates between base and max clock speeds and OCing actually moving beyond that max clock speed? Right?

mmm...not exactly...

It operates between base and max clock speed using the highest clock speed that available power budget and temperature budget allow. But the highest clock speed (4200 for your CPU) can only be attained in a single-core boost (one core at a time) if temp and power budget allows. It does that in light, bursty loads.

When the CPU gets loaded heavily it will run at the highest speed at can if temperature allows, but it will pull the clocks (and voltage) back further and further as it gets hotter until it gets as low as base clock, 3600 I think for your processor.

 

[PurpleChange]

mmm...not exactly...

It operates between base and max clock speed using the highest clock speed that available power budget and temperature budget allow. But the highest clock speed (4200 for your CPU) can only be attained in a single-core boost (one core at a time) if temp and power budget allows. It does that in light, bursty loads.

When the CPU gets loaded heavily it will run at the highest speed at can if temperature allows, but it will pull the clocks (and voltage) back further and further as it gets hotter until it gets as low as base clock, 3600 I think for your processor.

Ok.

This was also reassuring: "...What PBO does not ever do is boost the frequency beyond the advertised CPU clocks, which is a major point that people have confused..."
from: https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3491-explaining-precision-boost-overdrive-benchmarks-auto-oc

 

[drea.drechsler]

That is precisely what I've been reading/watching. Does it really improve performance and how do you measure it are the big questions.
...

It might improve performance a little bit since it runs cooler with the lowered voltage. But also, since the processors algorithm is confused it sometimes actually uses a lower clock than it should and kills performance.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Ok.

This was also reassuring: "...What PBO does not ever do is boost the frequency beyond the advertised CPU clocks, which is a major point that people have confused..."
from: https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3491-explaining-precision-boost-overdrive-benchmarks-auto-oc

It doesn't 'boost' the frequency beyond what it's normal frequency is, but it allows it to run at a higher frequency than it would since it over-rides the performance power budgets considerably. But it will only do that if temperature is also well controlled with very good cooling like an AIO liquid cooler or huge air cooler like NHD-15. To get anything significant out of PBO you really need great cooling too.

Even then, some people with 3800X's (highest binned Ryzen CPU's) say they can get max boosts to 4550Mhz on all cores (one at a time, of course) with PBO. That CPU's rated max boost is 4500, so there's that to consider.