News Leaked Benchmarks Show 11 Percent Uplift On Radeon RX 5600 XT With New vBIOS

hannibal

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I am quite sure that Nvidia have had quite good idea of how fast 5600xt would be, because it is just cut down 5700 card. So the price cut was just to make the 2060 to look better in comparison. 2060 most likely would have not looked too good in comparison without the cut.
I don`t believe big plans and counter plans in these things. Nvidia and amd try to price their products so that They make as much Profit as possible and be reasonable priced compared to worst competitors. No more, no less!
 
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Loadedaxe

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I am quite sure that Nvidia have had quite good idea of how fast 5600xt would be, because it is just cut down 5700 card. So the price cut was just to make the 2060 to look better in comparison. 2060 most likely would have not looked too good in comparison without the cut.
I don`t believe big plans and counter plans in these things. Nvidia and amd try to price their products so that They make as much Profit as possible and be reasonable priced compared to worst competitors. No more, no less!
I agree, and if AMD would stop taking so long to launch Nvidia and AMD would be fighting it out in price wars, which is good for us.

Sadly AMD is late to the table again and I already got a RTX 2060 at launch, no need for me to buy a 5600XT which I may have done had they not been so late. But instead we are getting 2060 performance from AMD a year late.

Now there is no sense in buying AMDs cards at this time unless you just have a terrible gpu as nvidia will be releasing new cards this year.
 

Ncogneto

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I agree, and if AMD would stop taking so long to launch Nvidia and AMD would be fighting it out in price wars, which is good for us.

Sadly AMD is late to the table again and I already got a RTX 2060 at launch, no need for me to buy a 5600XT which I may have done had they not been so late. But instead we are getting 2060 performance from AMD a year late.

Now there is no sense in buying AMDs cards at this time unless you just have a terrible gpu as nvidia will be releasing new cards this year.
Next time I am sure AMD will consult you on your personal upgrade schedule and plan their release's accordingly........

Newsflash, people are building new PC all the time.
 

alextheblue

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I hope they do, and I know people are building new PCs all the time, reread my post.
I did, and it made me chuckle. You act like they're not fighting a price war - Nvidia has been dropping Super cards offering more performance for less money, and slashing prices. This is all in direct response to AMD launches. They constantly go back and forth, AMD does the same thing whenever they need to.

Now on to the second part which reads "AMD needs to release on the same schedule as Nvidia otherwise I will only buy Nvidia, I can't wait for AMD's next release". Then you immediately contradict your own logic, as the last part reads "But don't buy AMD today wait for the next Nvidia release lulzzz".

I think there's a lot of really good Nvidia cards on the market. The 1660 Super is a great value, for example, and the 2060 after price cuts is pretty solid too. If money is no object they have the TOP cards on the market. There's nothing wrong with being a little bit of a fanboy, but don't act like you're not, and then tell people to wait for Nvidia in the next breath.
 

Loadedaxe

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I did not say "AMD needs to release on the same schedule as Nvidia otherwise I will only buy Nvidia, I can't wait for AMD's next release"

Stop taking something said and twisting it into something you want to argue about, we call that trolling.
 

spongiemaster

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Next time I am sure AMD will consult you on your personal upgrade schedule and plan their release's accordingly........

Newsflash, people are building new PC all the time.
Nice unprovoked dick response there. Especially considering he is right. The early bird dictates the price. The 2060 was released a year ago (January 15th). Everyone in the last year that bought a 2060, (the 6th most used card on Steam currently, and most popular current gen Nvidia gpu) is out of the market for a 5600XT. 5600XT is launching at $280. Meanwhile, the 2060 has been at $350 for a year. Nvidia has no problem dropping the price to $300 now as they have already made their money, eliminating most for the price advantage AMD had before the card even launches. That's a great way to do business. Let the competition siphon off all the people willing to pay top dollar, then sweep in a year late and pick up the cheapskates table scraps.
 

spongiemaster

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I did, and it made me chuckle. You act like they're not fighting a price war - Nvidia has been dropping Super cards offering more performance for less money, and slashing prices. This is all in direct response to AMD launches. They constantly go back and forth, AMD does the same thing whenever they need to.
What was the the original RTX line released in response to? AMD released nothing of note in 2018.

What was Nvidia's response to the Radeon VII? Silence. Maybe laughter behind the scenes.

Nvidia works on its own product schedule and will release products regardless of what AMD is doing. The Super cards were not a response product to AMD. AMD may have helped decide the exact release date, but they played no role in their existence. Nvidia was not going to go an entire calendar year without releasing a new series of cards, so even if AMD had not released the 5000 series, we still would have seen the Super line last year.

AMD didn't play any role in the Super cards being cheaper either. In a rare case of honesty in a quarterly report last January, Jen-Hsun admitted that initial RTX sales were disappointing because "some customers may have delayed their purchase while waiting for lower price points and further demonstrations of RTX technology in actual games." Translation, customers demand was lower than we predicted because prices were too high, and there were no games. Nvidia knew they had to drop prices even without competition from AMD. Nvidia pricing has been creeping up for a few generations, and with the RTX series they crossed the line that gamers weren't willing to pay. Nvidia isn't going to make that mistake again because they answer to shareholders not AMD.
 
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alextheblue

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OK you're right, pricing has nothing to do with what the competition releases. The release of (or impending release of) competitive GPUs likewise doesn't influence the timing and pricing of enhanced variants. Even when the competition releases new products, Nvidia operates in a vacuum. Irrefutable logic. You know I've heard from Intel fanboys brilliant independent journalists that Intel is the same way. AMD's releases haven't affected them in the slightest.

I will absolutely give Nvidia credit for not resting on their laurels... at least not for several generations.
Stop taking something said and twisting it into something you want to argue about, we call that trolling.
I don't think you understand actual trolling in the slightest. Anyway I don't think I've done much twisting. Here, I'll quote you.
Sadly AMD is late to the table again and I already got a RTX 2060 at launch, no need for me to buy a 5600XT which I may have done had they not been so late. But instead we are getting 2060 performance from AMD a year late.

Now there is no sense in buying AMDs cards at this time unless you just have a terrible gpu as nvidia will be releasing new cards this year.
You stated that you got a 2060 (at launch, naturally) because AMD was "late". I guess they can't operate on their own release schedule. Otherwise you "may" have bought a 5600 XT. OK. Then you also state that even TODAY, people should still not buy AMD if possible, but rather should hold out for Nvidia's next launch. Got it.
 
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spongiemaster

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OK you're right, pricing has nothing to do with what the competition releases. The release of (or impending release of) competitive GPUs likewise doesn't influence the timing and pricing of enhanced variants. Even when the competition releases new products, Nvidia operates in a vacuum. Irrefutable logic. You know I've heard from Intel fanboys brilliant independent journalists that Intel is the same way. AMD's releases haven't affected them in the slightest.
Your deeply condescending tone adds nothing to the conversation. Rather than responding point by point, I'll save time and quote someone else from this thread.

Stop taking something said and twisting it into something you want to argue about, we call that trolling.
 
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Loadedaxe

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I will absolutely give Nvidia credit for not resting on their laurels... at least not for several generations.
I don't think you understand actual trolling in the slightest. Anyway I don't think I've done much twisting. Here, I'll quote you.
You stated that you got a 2060 (at launch, naturally) because AMD was "late". I guess they can't operate on their own release schedule. Otherwise you "may" have bought a 5600 XT. OK. Then you also state that even TODAY, people should still not buy AMD if possible, but rather should hold out for Nvidia's next launch. Got it.
"If AMD would stop taking so long to launch Nvidia and AMD would be fighting it out in price wars, which is good for us.

Sadly AMD is late to the table again and I already got a RTX 2060 at launch, no need for me to buy a 5600XT which I may have done had they not been so late. But instead we are getting 2060 performance from AMD a year late.

Now there is no sense in buying AMDs cards at this time unless you just have a terrible gpu as nvidia will be releasing new cards this year."


That is what I said. Again twisting it into any thing else makes you a troll.
But here, I digress. I will be a little more elaborate.

AMD is late, they want to drop 2060 performance on the table for ~$300 in 2020 when Nvidia is launching new cards this year.
Anyone wanting to upgrade would have bought a RTX 2060 or even a RX5700 by now. Anyone wanting to upgrade now would obviously have a dilemma of wait until Nvidia releases 3000 series or buy one year old tech now at a premium price.
 

joeblowsmynose

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.... The Super cards were not a response product to AMD. ...
Correct ... NVidia needed to cannibalize their own product line and release higher specced cards as lower ones at lower prices because they felt they were making too much profit, and needed to not only lower prices, but lower them on detuned higher specced cards so as to ensure they ate into their profit margins as much as possible. This move was most particularly done to make investors happy as we all know they hate it when companies they have stocks in make too much profit - it has nothing to do with AMD.

With their long standing history of ensuring the best bang for buck for the consumer their company could bear, this clearly was the ONLY reason the SUPER line of cards exist.

That other guy thinking they flooded the sku range, risked cannibalizing their own products, dropped prices, and cut down higher end cards was a response to the new uArch if AMD's new line of just launched products. Pfft! Who would believe that!? Right?

And don't forget the coincidence that the 2060 just dropped in price right before the 5600xt launch. Anyone believing this is more than just a random coincidence must have a few screws loose, wouldn't you say?

NVidia doesn't do anything in response to what AMD is doing ... smart guys like me and you know better. ;)
 
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alextheblue

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That is what I said. Again twisting it into any thing else makes you a troll.
But here, I digress. I will be a little more elaborate.

AMD is late, they want to drop 2060 performance on the table for ~$300 in 2020 when Nvidia is launching new cards this year.
Anyone wanting to upgrade would have bought a RTX 2060 or even a RX5700 by now. Anyone wanting to upgrade now would obviously have a dilemma of wait until Nvidia releases 3000 series or buy one year old tech now at a premium price.
I didn't twist your words beyond the touch of satire, and it was pretty obvious what direction you were headed with them. You still have no idea what trolling is. Honestly I thought you were trolling the first couple of posts.

So you once again are telling people who want to upgrade that they either must wait for new Nvidia or "buy old tech". Navi isn't old, so you must be referring to older Nvidia chips (which are selling for less than ever thanks to AMD's releases). So a non-fanboy needing an upgrade will buy the best card they can with the cash they have. If you have around $230 to spend, a 1660 Super is the best deal. If you've got closer to $300 then you have a couple of Nvidia options and at least one from AMD. It's that simple, but I'm not a fanboy so I understand you see it as "buy older Nvidia cards at a lower price than ever, or wait for newer Nvidia cards".
Correct ... NVidia needed to cannibalize their own product line and release higher specced cards as lower ones at lower prices because they felt they were making too much profit, and needed to not only lower prices, but lower them on detuned higher specced cards so as to ensure they ate into their profit margins as much as possible. This move was most particularly done to make investors happy as we all know they hate it when companies they have stocks in make too much profit - it has nothing to do with AMD.

With their long standing history of ensuring the best bang for buck for the consumer their company could bear, this clearly was the ONLY reason the SUPER line of cards exist.

That other guy thinking they flooded the sku range, risked cannibalizing their own products, dropped prices, and cut down higher end cards was a response to the new uArch if AMD's new line of just launched products. Pfft! Who would believe that!? Right?

And don't forget the coincidence that the 2060 just dropped in price right before the 5600xt launch. Anyone believing this is more than just a random coincidence must have a few screws loose, wouldn't you say?

NVidia doesn't do anything in response to what AMD is doing ... smart guys like me and you know better. ;)
Your logic is irrefutable! I hang my head in shame.
 

joeblowsmynose

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I didn't twist your words beyond the touch of satire, and it was pretty obvious what direction you were headed with them. You still have no idea what trolling is. Honestly I thought you were trolling the first couple of posts.
...
Yeah it can get weird sometimes, just due to the lack of inflection and body language a face-to-face would have. Interestingly ... how a person does respond though can say a fair bit, but at the end of the day one should never judge a book by its cover and we're obviously all a lot more complex than can be conveyed in internet text.

I get mistaken for acting "hostile!" quite a bit, but most of what I write is intended with a lighthearted wink and a smile.
 
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spongiemaster

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Correct ... NVidia needed to cannibalize their own product line and release higher specced cards as lower ones at lower prices because they felt they were making too much profit, and needed to not only lower prices, but lower them on detuned higher specced cards so as to ensure they ate into their profit margins as much as possible. This move was most particularly done to make investors happy as we all know they hate it when companies they have stocks in make too much profit - it has nothing to do with AMD.

With their long standing history of ensuring the best bang for buck for the consumer their company could bear, this clearly was the ONLY reason the SUPER line of cards exist.

That other guy thinking they flooded the sku range, risked cannibalizing their own products, dropped prices, and cut down higher end cards was a response to the new uArch if AMD's new line of just launched products. Pfft! Who would believe that!? Right?

And don't forget the coincidence that the 2060 just dropped in price right before the 5600xt launch. Anyone believing this is more than just a random coincidence must have a few screws loose, wouldn't you say?

NVidia doesn't do anything in response to what AMD is doing ... smart guys like me and you know better. ;)
Nvidia: We were disappointed with RTX sales, and we now know prices were too high and there was not enough game support.

joeblowsmynose: No problem. We can't fix the game support ourselves, but I know how we can turn this around. We'll continue selling the same cards at the same prices and wait for the customers to come around to our way of thinking. Any customers that don't will get tired of waiting for lower prices and/or faster cards and will just buy our cards anyway.

Thankfully you aren't in charge of decision making at Nvidia.
 
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Loadedaxe

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I didn't twist your words beyond the touch of satire, and it was pretty obvious what direction you were headed with them. You still have no idea what trolling is. Honestly I thought you were trolling the first couple of posts.

So you once again are telling people who want to upgrade that they either must wait for new Nvidia or "buy old tech". Navi isn't old, so you must be referring to older Nvidia chips (which are selling for less than ever thanks to AMD's releases). So a non-fanboy needing an upgrade will buy the best card they can with the cash they have. If you have around $230 to spend, a 1660 Super is the best deal. If you've got closer to $300 then you have a couple of Nvidia options and at least one from AMD. It's that simple, but I'm not a fanboy so I understand you see it as "buy older Nvidia cards at a lower price than ever, or wait for newer Nvidia cards".
Your logic is irrefutable! I hang my head in shame.
Where did I say buy older cards?

You keep saying that your not twisting my words, but again you are.
 

joeblowsmynose

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Nvidia: We were disappointed with RTX sales, and we now know prices were too high and there was not enough game support.

joeblowsmynose: No problem. We can't fix the game support ourselves, but I know how we can turn this around. We'll continue selling the same cards at the same prices and wait for the customers to come around to our way of thinking. Any customers that don't will get tired of waiting for lower prices and/or faster cards and will just buy our cards anyway.

Thankfully you aren't in charge of decision making at Nvidia.
So you are implying that NVidia made the decision to use RTX to "ripoff our customers to maximum degree" - Which led to insanely high prices for tech not even usable, and that is the sole reason why they were forced to issue price cut and new skus, right when AMD launches stuff (every time its just a coincidence though, I'm sure).

If I was in charge of decision making at NVidia, I would never have done that in the first place, because I'm not a money grubbing whore who could care less about my customers. But if you want to use the idea that NVidia is a money grubbing whore that seeks to suck as much much money out of its customers at all cost - even at the risk of pissing off the customers that supported them as the defense as to why they were forced to lower prices at every AMD GPU launch, then have at it. You've backed yourself into a corner either way.

If you truly believe what sentiment you are implying, I have to ask why on earth you would continue to support and defend such a company? And
if the sentiment you are implying is not true, you have to admit that what NVidia is doing then, is then responding very carefully and strategically to everything AMD is doing.


But at the end of the day, the fact that NVidia has responded to every AMD Navi launch, with no small effort, very clearly shows that they are responding to AMD. Only a fool wouldn't see that. You might say coincidence the first time, but two now? Come on. Use better sense-making.
 
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alextheblue

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Where did I say buy older cards?

You keep saying that your not twisting my words, but again you are.
Anyone wanting to upgrade now would obviously have a dilemma of wait until Nvidia releases 3000 series or buy one year old tech now at a premium price.
Navi is well under a year old, so you must be referring to older Nvidia cards. Which, by the way, are selling for cheaper than ever. Thanks AMD! So again, your advice is to buy one year old tech (Nvidia) or wait for Nvidia. Tom's says the 5600 XT is faster and cheaper than a 2060, anyone who is neutral would recommend someone looking to upgrade today to at least consider these newer Navi cards - assuming they're shopping in that price bracket. Sub-$250 the 1660 Super cards are king right now...
 

joeblowsmynose

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Navi is well under a year old, so you must be referring to older Nvidia cards. Which, by the way, are selling for cheaper than ever. Thanks AMD! So again, your advice is to buy one year old tech (Nvidia) or wait for Nvidia. Tom's says the 5600 XT is faster and cheaper than a 2060, anyone who is neutral would recommend someone looking to upgrade today to at least consider these newer Navi cards - assuming they're shopping in that price bracket. Sub-$250 the 1660 Super cards are king right now...
Well to be honest, everything weighs out quite well in the midrange -- you can't really go wrong either way, but if bang for buck is your main driver AMD has slight edge, that's not debatable because its math. Raytracing on the 2060 is weak enough that by the time games actually have the feature a 2060 will be too slow, so I don't really count that as an advantage.

Price is close, performance-almost identical (variant card comparison dependent), power draw is same ballpark, etc. I'm quite confident that had we not seen 2060 price drop $50, AMD would have pulled some potential buyers over to their side. As it stands - those who like green will keep buying green and those who like red will keep buying red.

I just think AMD should cut prices more now - Itheir HW should be less expensive in materials at least. Maybe start a price war :)
 
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I just think AMD should cut prices more now - Itheir HW should be less expensive in materials at least. Maybe start a price war
I suspect AMD may be limited by 7nm production, between all their CPUs, GPUs and upcoming console hardware. And if I had to guess, they probably make more money per-wafer off their CPUs than their GPUs, and are contractually obligated to manufacture millions of console chips this year. So, that's probably why pricing of their graphics cards hasn't been much better than Nvidia's, and why it took them half a year after the 5700 launch to start shipping hardware at more "mid-range" price points. If these cards sold too well, they might not be able to keep up with production without cutting into their CPU business, which is likely more profitable.
 
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Ncogneto

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Nice unprovoked dick response there. Especially considering he is right. The early bird dictates the price. The 2060 was released a year ago (January 15th). Everyone in the last year that bought a 2060, (the 6th most used card on Steam currently, and most popular current gen Nvidia gpu) is out of the market for a 5600XT. 5600XT is launching at $280. Meanwhile, the 2060 has been at $350 for a year. Nvidia has no problem dropping the price to $300 now as they have already made their money, eliminating most for the price advantage AMD had before the card even launches. That's a great way to do business. Let the competition siphon off all the people willing to pay top dollar, then sweep in a year late and pick up the cheapskates table scraps.
Yawn...........and here is the great white knight, spongie, to avenge all the injustices of the Interwebz.............

Spare me. My response was perfect for the poorly thought out post it was replying to. The general gist of which was complaining that AMD didn't roll out cards on the same timeline as Nvida. Pul-lease. The time to roll out cards is when they are ready to be rolled out. Not some knee-jerk reaction to what your competition is doing....which btw, is exactly what Nvidia/EVGA did with their near paper-launch of the 2060 ko, which cannot be purchased anywhere atm, and is showing a shipping time of 1-2 months on most major retailers. So, your "out of the market" (which I presume you meant out ON the market) comment, missed the mark entirely, as any currently available 2060's are priced at or around $330-$350.00, except for one vaporware product that cannot currently be found, and will only be available from one board partner.

Pay special attention to the Tom's hardware review in which the card (the 5600xt) garnered and editors choice recommendation, you dolt.

Because, as you say, and I quote:

"Nvidia has no problem dropping the price to $300 now as they have already made their money, eliminating most for the price advantage AMD had before the card even launches. That's a great way to do business. Let the competition siphon off all the people willing to pay top dollar, then sweep in a year late and pick up the cheapskates table scraps."

Vaporware paper launch's and price gouging is a great way to do business. LOL, maybe for you, but in my view not a great way to garner brand loyalty. Long story short, AMD now has a card on the market for $280-$290 that performs as well, if not better than, Nvidia's card that can only be purchased for $330.

game-set-match
 

spongiemaster

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Pay special attention to the Tom's hardware review in which the card (the 5600xt) garnered and editors choice recommendation, you dolt.
Probably because this site does terrible reviews that rarely point out the negatives of a product.

Gamers Nexus gave some of their test samples to staff to use at home. The link I provided is the beginning of Steve listing off over 2 minutes of reproducible driver problems that were found while using the cards. He wouldn't give any recommendation for the card until it was certain the card you were buying came with the updated BIOS.

The fans on Jayz2cents test card would not spin up using AMD's software. Couldn't get them to work at all. The software showed the fans spinning at 65k RPM's though they weren't spinning at all. As the temperatures soared past 100C, he said he had to kill the tests and manually start the fans using Afterburner to prevent the card from literally cooking itself to death. For the average user, that's a dead card after the first use.

AMD quality at its finest. Oddly, never hear about the terrible AMD drivers in Tom's review. Can't say anything negative.
 

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