Letter From CEO of Hobby Lobby inregard to Obamacare

[chunkymonster]

It's not that we don't understand it we will just have to see how effective it is. Its not even fully implemented yet and people already want to string it up as a failure. I am not saying lets wait 4 years to see what it does, I'm saying lets see in 4 years how effective it is.

We understand the point you are trying to make...so, with that said, I'm just going to cut and paste what riser wrote a few replies ago...

Riser wrote: It is sad that we pass and enact a law without understanding it.. and that we have to go 4 years through it to see how it turns out. From view is that we should fully understand the impacts of a law before putting it into place. Essentially we going to do this trial by fire and hope it works out.

 

[riser]

It is a very effective plan John. Lots of people have already lost their jobs and have had their hours cut back because of the penalties being imposed.

It is forcing companies to assume an additional cost instantly. Consumer spending is already low along with consumer savings. Forcing these companies to provide healthcare means they need to raise their prices to make up for the loss of income due to taxes.

At some point within economics you reach the point of diminishing returns. Most companies price their products at a point to maximize sales. Start raising the price and less people purchase, but the increase in price, at least for a bit, will make up for the loss of consumers. Drop the price too much and you're losing out on potential profit.

So prices are going up. McDonald's which is a key indicator of the economy has raised the price of their pies to 2 for $1.19, up from $1. A 20% price increase.. 20 cents, no big deal.. but that's a 20% increase! When minimum wage went up, you went from getting 3 chicken mcnuggets for $1 to getting 2 chicken mcnuggets for the same price.

That's great and all. People are making more, people have more.. now the problem is things are going to cost more so low end wage earners will need to make more so they have the same buying power. But things went up because they got more.. but now they'll want more.

And it really benefits them.. but the guy making $9 or $10.. he doesn't benefit because he won't see a raise. He'll have less.

Me? Won't affect me much, I have plenty of disposable income. The shift manager at Burger King making $9-$10.. he's the one getting hurt.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Im bettin therell be auto write offs for certain wage earners, thus burdening those moreso who can afford it

 

[riser]

They're talking about getting rid of the mortgage interest write-off. I said long ago that getting rid of that would cause me to walk away from my house. That's the one thing that provide real incentive to own your own house (when talking finances).

I'm actually in the process of walking away from my house anyhow due to multiple reasons so it doesn't affect me.. but I won't be buying a house again if they take away that incentive.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

You must love your neighbors/neighborhood.
Somes incentives are like beer, dont mess with beer.
Just like cosmetics

 

[riser]

I liked many of my neighbors. Many lost their jobs and had to leave. Many were foreclosured on or sold. I had 3 neighbors that had been living there for 20+ years sell their homes for the price of a new Honda Accord. In turn the gov't came in and put in Section 8 government housing because so many homes were vacant.. that further dropped the value of my house.

I have a standing cash offer on my house for 61% of what I owe on it... which s 50% higher than what houses in the neighborhood have been selling at for the last 3 years. The bank is refusing and wanting me to pay them the remaining balance.

I decided I am going to walk away from the house. The amount of money we're talking isn't worth it for them to sue me and come after me.. it'll cost them more than what they will get.

In fact, they're holding up the entire deal over $4,000. My buyers came up in price, I did my share of cash, and everything.. they want $4,000 more. The buyers won't pay more, I'm not paying anything in again. Last time when I offered to pay up the bank literally said, "Well if you can give us that amount of money, you can afford to pay for the house."

Double edged sword, if I pony up money, they balk and want to renegotiate for even more money.

 

[johnsonma]

It is a very effective plan John. Lots of people have already lost their jobs and have had their hours cut back because of the penalties being imposed.

It is forcing companies to assume an additional cost instantly. Consumer spending is already low along with consumer savings. Forcing these companies to provide healthcare means they need to raise their prices to make up for the loss of income due to taxes.

At some point within economics you reach the point of diminishing returns. Most companies price their products at a point to maximize sales. Start raising the price and less people purchase, but the increase in price, at least for a bit, will make up for the loss of consumers. Drop the price too much and you're losing out on potential profit.

So prices are going up. McDonald's which is a key indicator of the economy has raised the price of their pies to 2 for $1.19, up from $1. A 20% price increase.. 20 cents, no big deal.. but that's a 20% increase! When minimum wage went up, you went from getting 3 chicken mcnuggets for $1 to getting 2 chicken mcnuggets for the same price.

That's great and all. People are making more, people have more.. now the problem is things are going to cost more so low end wage earners will need to make more so they have the same buying power. But things went up because they got more.. but now they'll want more.

And it really benefits them.. but the guy making $9 or $10.. he doesn't benefit because he won't see a raise. He'll have less.

Me? Won't affect me much, I have plenty of disposable income. The shift manager at Burger King making $9-$10.. he's the one getting hurt.

Of course companies have to assume additional cost, do you think revamping our healthcare system would instantly save money? Of course not, it will cost more at first before the savings are reached. Suppose you buy a new manufacturing machine at a plant you own to build your product faster. Obviously it will cost more upfront before you hit the savings down the line.

 

[riser]

A company that buys a machine is selling a product to make money. The government isn't selling anything to make money. They are incurring a new expense without knowing exactly how to pay for it. You compared a business to the government and you can not do that as it doesn't line up.

We know what our new expenses are going to be with the healthcare system. Everyone gets healthcare and each person costs X amount to insure on average. What we do not know is how much revenue is going to be generated to pay for it. No one running a business would make that kind of decision or gamble on something like that.

 

[wanamingo]

I can tell you if someone is upset because Obamacare raised the price of McDonalds pie, they are probably going to be hospitalized for diabeetus... but at least he will have healthcare. McDonalds is not food.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Just wait til its in your backyard, then everyone will understand

 

[johnsonma]

A company that buys a machine is selling a product to make money. The government isn't selling anything to make money. They are incurring a new expense without knowing exactly how to pay for it. You compared a business to the government and you can not do that as it doesn't line up.

We know what our new expenses are going to be with the healthcare system. Everyone gets healthcare and each person costs X amount to insure on average. What we do not know is how much revenue is going to be generated to pay for it. No one running a business would make that kind of decision or gamble on something like that.

Your forgetting about the increased cost some of the new technological requirements on hospitals will cost. Not to mention there will be an initial influx of expense as the healthcare system balances out the additional people. I'm not talking about the government here, I'm talking about the healthcare sector in general.

 

[riser]

I can tell you if someone is upset because Obamacare raised the price of McDonalds pie, they are probably going to be hospitalized for diabeetus... but at least he will have healthcare. McDonalds is not food.

You should note that the African America community are heavy consumers at McDonald's due to the cost. Through Marketing and Research the African American community, when compared against Caucasian and Hispanic, tend to spend the most on clothing and the least on food. I mention this because the AA community has a lot of people living in poverty, under educated, etc. The cost to them is going up 20%. You and I, probably doesn't even register in the bank. To those making less it is a huge burden.

I can afford to spend more on food.. or buy cheaper food instead of higher quality food. The people who don't have that same luxory are the ones getting hurt. So yes, the people who are paying an extra $0.20 for two pies are going to be upset. Instead of paying $1 for 3 nuggets, they're paying $2 for 4 nuggets.

 

[riser]

Your forgetting about the increased cost some of the new technological requirements on hospitals will cost. Not to mention there will be an initial influx of expense as the healthcare system balances out the additional people. I'm not talking about the government here, I'm talking about the healthcare sector in general.

Worked in healthcare. I left that company because I saw that their margins were looking really bad because of the burden being put on them. $7 billion dollars a year in revenue, $350 million profit a year before having to pay for the increases in electronic document handling. That company, one of the largest in the country, is 2 lawsuits away from bankruptcy every day.

We generated more income by having the electronic system in place. Before a nurse had to hand write down everything they did and enter it later into the system for billing. Switching to the electronic system we increased revenue and profit because we were recording services rendered far more accurately. Medicare and Medicaid suffered because companies were actually billing them MORE and not less. That increased the burden on the system instead of relieving it.

 

[musical marv]

Just wait til its in your backyard, then everyone will understand

You are right sir. Everyone thinks this is a big joke.When it hits your wallet you will than think seriously.

 

[james_75]

I am sick and tired seeing these religious fanatics making excuses for the health of their employees and Obamacare. This is just a dam excuse because he is cheap.

WOW i am truely amazed. this is not a question of an employee's right to have contraception, we all have that right.
But now your forcing someone else to pay for it!?
Buy your own morning after pills or condoms or whatever isnt covered by your healthplan.
Soon we will demand free lunch after working 4 hours and new shoes for our tired feet every 2 months..... where does it stop

 

[james_75]

So if the owners of a company are Jehovah Witnesses they can remove a blood transfusion from your healthcare because it doesn't match their beliefs?

yes thats right... some employers offer medical but no prescription plan... the nerve

 

[chunkymonster]

Your forgetting about the increased cost some of the new technological requirements on hospitals will cost.

In addition to the cost incurred by the health care industry to upgrade their equipment to better serve the patient, there are also the additional costs Obamacare levied on the health care manufacturing industry, i.e.; the medial device tax. This tax will affect everything like surgical tools, oxygen tanks, wheelchairs, stethoscopes, blood pressure cuffs, stents, angioplastic balloons, and all other devices typically used during any typical doctor's visit or routine procedure.

This tax has already struck the medical device industry as thousands of workers have been laid off in anticipation of the lost revenue; here's a link to the top 10 list of medical device companies that have already laid people off. As a result, medical devices once made in America will now be imported from the companies the jobs went to that were shipped overseas because if this tax. Which is completely contradictory to Obama being a job creator because America is (was) a global leader in medical device production and sales and exported far more of these devices than it imported. In 2011, the medical device industry earned $5.4 Billion more in exports than imports of such devices. That is now money lost to outsourcing of once American made devices and at the loss of American jobs.

But that's only the half it, the medical industry as whole has deemed the medical device tax not only a job killer, but also as an industry killer. Much of what made the medical device industry so strong was the R&D that went into creating many of the devices that vastly improved the quality of life and/or extended the life of many patients. The medical device tax leaves no margins left for these companies to continue to perform R&D, so not only are the jobs being outsourced, but now the outsourcing also includes the engineering and innovation that was part and parcel to the medical device industry. Current and future graduates of Biomedical Engineering will face a diminished workplace and less companies able to hire them; which is also contradictory to Obama's education plans to put more emphasis on science and math in public schools and colleges.

If waiting to see what 4 years of Obamacare will reveal, it stands to be reveal an exercise in unintended consequences.

 

[johnsonma]

In addition to the cost incurred by the health care industry to upgrade their equipment to better serve the patient, there are also the additional costs Obamacare levied on the health care manufacturing industry, i.e.; the medial device tax. This tax will affect everything like surgical tools, oxygen tanks, wheelchairs, stethoscopes, blood pressure cuffs, stents, angioplastic balloons, and all other devices typically used during any typical doctor's visit or routine procedure.

This tax has already struck the medical device industry as thousands of workers have been laid off in anticipation of the lost revenue; here's a link to the top 10 list of medical device companies that have already laid people off. As a result, medical devices once made in America will now be imported from the companies the jobs went to that were shipped overseas because if this tax. Which is completely contradictory to Obama being a job creator because America is (was) a global leader in medical device production and sales and exported far more of these devices than it imported. In 2011, the medical device industry earned $5.4 Billion more in exports than imports of such devices. That is now money lost to outsourcing of once American made devices and at the loss of American jobs.

But that's only the half it, the medical industry as whole has deemed the medical device tax not only a job killer, but also as an industry killer. Much of what made the medical device industry so strong was the R&D that went into creating many of the devices that vastly improved the quality of life and/or extended the life of many patients. The medical device tax leaves no margins left for these companies to continue to perform R&D, so not only are the jobs being outsourced, but now the outsourcing also includes the engineering and innovation that was part and parcel to the medical device industry. Current and future graduates of Biomedical Engineering will face a diminished workplace and less companies able to hire them; which is also contradictory to Obama's education plans to put more emphasis on science and math in public schools and colleges.

If waiting to see what 4 years of Obamacare will reveal, it stands to be reveal an exercise in unintended consequences.

It had to be paid for somehow and it was either that or borrow more. By the way the medical device healthcare sector is one of the top private sector markets in terms of profit margins. With the increased flow of money into the healthcare sector from the previously uninsured I expect to see this trend reversed over the next four years. Again, short term pain for long term goals. It will not crush the entire sector and destroy exports, thats just being melodramatic.

 

[chunkymonster]

It had to be paid for somehow and it was either that or borrow more. By the way the medical device healthcare sector is one of the top private sector markets in terms of profit margins. With the increased flow of money into the healthcare sector from the previously uninsured I expect to see this trend reversed over the next four years. Again, short term pain for long term goals. It will not crush the entire sector and destroy exports, thats just being melodramatic.

That is poor justification for something that still 50% of Americans are not in favor of.

Intentionally hurting the economy to make long term gains is not anything I ever read in any economics textbook.

Sadly, it is this same hucksterism that sold generations of Americans into believing that Social Security and Medicare would one day pay for themselves and now both programs are some of the primary reasons for America's spin into insolvency.

Sorry johnsonma, all you are supporting is more government control and less freedom and liberty for the American citizen. What's even worse is that you actually believe Obamacare will make America financially stronger.

 

[johnsonma]

This kind of thinking gets no one any where chunky. Its makes logical sense to tax one of the most profitable industries in the the entire private sector to help pay for improvements to the same sector that industry participates in. The healthcare dilemma is hurting the economy SO MUCH more than this tax its ridiculous to even consider it for more than a second when looking at the larger picture. You refuse to look at this from any perspective other than a negative one and it leads to these posts with overstated generalities and statistics that have nothing to do with analyzing the effectiveness of the healthcare legislation.

Freedom and liberty? What makes you less free now than 4 years ago?

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/reference/timechoosing.html

If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening

This is the issue of this election: Whether we believe in our capacity for self-government or whether we abandon the American revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite in a far-distant capitol can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves.

In this vote-harvesting time, they use terms like the "Great Society," or as we were told a few days ago by the President, we must accept a greater government activity in the affairs of the people. But they've been a little more explicit in the past and among themselves; and all of the things I now will quote have appeared in print. These are not Republican accusations. For example, they have voices that say, "The cold war will end through our acceptance of a not undemocratic socialism." Another voice says, "The profit motive has become outmoded. It must be replaced by the incentives of the welfare state." Or, "Our traditional system of individual freedom is incapable of solving the complex problems of the 20th century." Senator Fullbright has said at Stanford University that the Constitution is outmoded. He referred to the President as "our moral teacher and our leader," and he says he is "hobbled in his task by the restrictions of power imposed on him by this antiquated document." He must "be freed," so that he "can do for us" what he knows "is best." And Senator Clark of Pennsylvania, another articulate spokesman, defines liberalism as "meeting the material needs of the masses through the full power of centralized government."

Read it, as the tilt has become closer yet

 

[musical marv]

"Freedom and liberty? What makes you less free now than 4 years ago?"

The ability for us to make our own choices is being stripped away. Like a slowly peeled banana.

Obamacare will put the private insurance industry out of business in 5-7 years. Which is the whole goal of Obamacare in the first place. Mark my words.

If you are so disgruntled with this country there our other solutions Cuba, Cambodia, and other free countries you might be happy in.

 

[wanamingo]

Be careful NZ has universal healthcare.... Its only a matter of time before all their healthcare providers have been forced closed by the government in a bid to remove freedoms. Duh. Thats what universal healthcare does.

 

[riser]

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

 

[riser]

I'm looking forward to ObamaCare and the coming tax increases. My fiance keeps telling me that during the work week I'm a bit more difficult to deal with. My high pay includes higher stress. Since I won't have to worry about healthcare I won't need to make as much money. Since I will be one of the people suffering a higher tax rate [at least the way things are going] I can afford to give up additional salary as I won't see it anyhow.

Already did the math. I can do a $40,000 cut in salary at the end of next year.