Looking for a sokoban patch

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I was wondering if there's a patch out there that will put the life back
into doing sokoban for me. As it is now, sokoban has become almost
another Gehennom; it's not really risky or interesting, it just takes a
while. I will continue to do sokoban as long as the rewards are so great.

So is there a patch that increases the challenge or risk? Maybe
something that adds a much larger collection of levels to choose from,
so I won't be able to simply memorize the 8 or so currently in
existence? Maybe just move it deeper in the dungeon so the reward is
comparatively less great and the monsters would be harder.

Basically what I want is to be forced to evaluate whether Sokoban is
worth the risk, rather than right now where it's ALWAYS a good deal.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Haakon Studebaker speaks. "http://www.cs.joensuu.fi/~pkalli/code/"

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Andy Johnson wrote:
> I was wondering if there's a patch out there that will put the life back
> into doing sokoban for me. As it is now, sokoban has become almost
> another Gehennom; it's not really risky or interesting, it just takes a
> while.
That's why I do it after mines_end, and only if I'm in a burning need of
the bag.

> So is there a patch that increases the challenge or risk? Maybe
> something that adds a much larger collection of levels to choose from,
> so I won't be able to simply memorize the 8 or so currently in
> existence?
Adding more levels wouldn't fix this problems -- lazy people like me
would simply consult the nearest spoilers page. If you want to force
any thinking, we would need some dynamic generation of the maps. As it
stands now, it is nothing but a boring mindless chore.

Personally, I would suggest a different approach: let's add a _different
game_ in the place of Sokoban. Eg, turn-based Boulder Dash would work
just great. It wouldn't be as invasive to the rules of NetHack as
Sokoban -- all it takes is declaring the floor to be slightly tilted to
the side, and the boulders start rollin'.

Or, any of thousands of other logic games...

> Maybe just move it deeper in the dungeon so the reward is
> comparatively less great and the monsters would be harder.
You can always simply skip it.

> Basically what I want is to be forced to evaluate whether Sokoban is
> worth the risk, rather than right now where it's ALWAYS a good deal.
And what if I already have the bag, MR and enough hp to ignore any need
for reflection?

1KB

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Andy Johnson wrote:
>
> I was wondering if there's a patch out there that will put the
> life back into doing sokoban for me. ... So is there a patch
> that increases the challenge or risk?


1) You play 3.4.3, right?


2) Which version do you play? 3.4.3 DOS, 3.4.3 Windows (or the
DOS-alike included with it), or self-compiled? Whichever, I'll need
the level-building tools for that version.

DOS: I'll have to beg the level-building tools off someone.
I want 'em, anyway, so I sent out the appropriate grovelling message
a few minutes ago.

Windows: Kevin Wayne was kind enough to e-mail me the
level-building tools for Windows 3.4.3, so I'm set there.

Self-compiled: you'll have to e-mail me copies of your
level-building tools. Or add the new levels to the source code and
re-compile.


3) Which new levels are you interested in?

3.1) I've got Pasi's 19 new Sokoban levels ready at hand. Speaking
as an Anti-Sokobanite, screwing up unfamiliar Soko levels is still
better than being bored by the old ones.


3.2) ...and/or, I can set up replacement Sokoban levels with
pure combat challenges. Things along the lines of half a dozen
elves in a citadel. Or a mob of orcs surrounding the staircase.

(I would only do the work for this if I got interested
in designing levels again. If you're energetic, I can give you
the drill on designing your own levels.)


3.3) ...and/or, have a look at the junk listed at:
http://members.shaw.ca/rob.ellwood/newlevelssource.html

It would be easiest to give you the entire set. If you
want just a few, it would take extra work, which I might never do.

--
Rob Ellwood

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Adam Borowski wrote:
> Andy Johnson wrote:

>> I was wondering if there's a patch out there that will put the life
>> back into doing sokoban for me. As it is now, sokoban has become
>> almost another Gehennom; it's not really risky or interesting, it
>> just takes a while.

> Adding more levels wouldn't fix this problems -- lazy people like me
> would simply consult the nearest spoilers page. If you want to force
> any thinking, we would need some dynamic generation of the maps. As
> it stands now, it is nothing but a boring mindless chore.

And after a while, you'd know 16 levels by heart, instead of the current
eight.

>> Maybe just move it deeper in the dungeon so the reward is
>> comparatively less great and the monsters would be harder.

> You can always simply skip it.

You snipped him saying:

>> I will continue to do sokoban as long as the rewards are so great.

, so that is not an option to him.

> And what if I already have the bag, MR and enough hp to ignore any
> need for reflection?

The need for reflection has nothing to do with your HP. The real reason
why you want reflection is to protect your rings, wands, scrolls and
potions from being destroyed.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Adam Borowski wrote:

> Andy Johnson wrote:
>
>> Basically what I want is to be forced to evaluate whether Sokoban is
>> worth the risk, rather than right now where it's ALWAYS a good deal.
> And what if I already have the bag, MR and enough hp to ignore any need
> for reflection?

Sokoban is always a good deal regardless of the amulet of reflection or the
bag of holding. It probably has the highest items:danger ratio of anywhere
before Gehennom, and if you aren't already at the maximum strength you can
get to by exercising you likely will be after doing Sokoban.

By the way, even with MR and crazy amounts of HP, reflection is a Good
Thing (tm).

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Adam Borowski wrote:

> Personally, I would suggest a different approach: let's add a
_different
> game_ in the place of Sokoban. Eg, turn-based Boulder Dash would
work
> just great. It wouldn't be as invasive to the rules of NetHack as
> Sokoban -- all it takes is declaring the floor to be slightly tilted
to
> the side, and the boulders start rollin'.

But boulders would need turns on their own to move around, and you'd
have to define "dirt" squares that could be easily "dug," and
collecting diamonds in order to open an exit has no existing Nethack
analogue. I think it'd be more invasive, not less.

> Or, any of thousands of other logic games...

There are fewer of those games than you think. Many of them boil down
to
"Sokoban with some gimmick."

> > Maybe just move it deeper in the dungeon so the reward is
> > comparatively less great and the monsters would be harder.
> You can always simply skip it.
>
> > Basically what I want is to be forced to evaluate whether Sokoban
is
> > worth the risk, rather than right now where it's ALWAYS a good
deal.
> And what if I already have the bag, MR and enough hp to ignore any
need
> for reflection?

I think the determinacy of Sokoban's prize is meant to be a feature and
not a bug -- you can tell just by looking at the layout of the last
level whether to bother with going to get it. (On the other hand, it'd
be nice if there were a bit more variety to the prize there, as well as
more puzzles.)

- John H.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Andy Johnson wrote:
> So is there a patch that increases the challenge or risk? Maybe
> something that adds a much larger collection of levels to choose
from,
> so I won't be able to simply memorize the 8 or so currently in
> existence?

You could play slashem- that has a lot more soko levels than vanilla.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Rob Ellwood wrote:
> Andy Johnson wrote:
>
>>I was wondering if there's a patch out there that will put the
>>life back into doing sokoban for me. ... So is there a patch
>>that increases the challenge or risk?
>
>
>
> 1) You play 3.4.3, right?

> 3) Which new levels are you interested in?
>
> 3.1) I've got Pasi's 19 new Sokoban levels ready at hand. Speaking
> as an Anti-Sokobanite, screwing up unfamiliar Soko levels is still
> better than being bored by the old ones.

> 3.3) ...and/or, have a look at the junk listed at:
> http://members.shaw.ca/rob.ellwood/newlevelssource.html
>
> It would be easiest to give you the entire set. If you
> want just a few, it would take extra work, which I might never do.
>

This reply was amazingly helpful, thank you! Are you really offering to
do the work for me? That would be amazing. I went to your page you
mentioned and it looks like I can just download and plug the new 19
Sokoban levels right in. That was exactly what I was looking for. Well,
actually, it's BETTER than I was looking for, as I was expecting to have
to apply a patch and recompile.

I'm using a slightly patched version of 3.4.3 (dump patch, sort loot,
showborn), will this still work? On your page it says I should be
running the official release, but these patches don't affect levels at
all so I hope it'll work anyway.

I would also love to see some replacements for Sokoban like you mention,
but for now I think the 19 levels will be plenty.

Thanks again.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Andy Johnson wrote:
> Rob Ellwood wrote:
>> 3.3) ...and/or, have a look at the junk listed at:
>> http://members.shaw.ca/rob.ellwood/newlevelssource.html
>>
>> It would be easiest to give you the entire set. If you want just
>> a few, it would take extra work, which I might never do.
>>
>
> This reply was amazingly helpful, thank you! Are you really offering to
> do the work for me? That would be amazing. I went to your page you
> mentioned and it looks like I can just download and plug the new 19
> Sokoban levels right in. That was exactly what I was looking for. Well,
> actually, it's BETTER than I was looking for, as I was expecting to have
> to apply a patch and recompile.
>
> I'm using a slightly patched version of 3.4.3 (dump patch, sort loot,
> showborn), will this still work? On your page it says I should be
> running the official release, but these patches don't affect levels at
> all so I hope it'll work anyway.
>
> I would also love to see some replacements for Sokoban like you mention,
> but for now I think the 19 levels will be plenty.
>
> Thanks again.

Hmm... maybe I spoke too soon. Your files are not being hosted; the
links to the .zips are dead. Do you have them somewhere else?

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Background: Nethack has some *INSANELY* restrictive version
control checks. If you recompile Nethack, and burp gently during
step 482, then your version is incompatible with my version, 'cause
when I burped at step 482, I had the volume cranked.

(It's not quite that bad, but it's bad. A lot of changes
which should not destroy compatibility, do.)

I was half-way to moving to a new, ultra-flexible way of
distributing add-on levels when version 3.4.2 came out. 3.4.2 was
incompatible with everything that I had. I was completely blown out
of the water.

That was two years ago.

I now have level-compiling tools for the DOS and Windows
versions of 3.4.3. If I get a bit energetic, I can at least let
myself play with the best of the add-on levels. If I get moderately
energetic, I can compile all the add-on levels for both DOS and
Windows 3.4.3. If I get really energetic, I can set up the ultra-
flexible way of distributing add-on levels. (And, as a side benefit,
the Dev Team will come out with an incompatible 3.4.4 within 30 days.)

And, if ENERGY > (1.5* bit), I can get you compiled versions of
the best of the levels.


Compatibility question 1: which version are you playing?

Andy Johnson wrote:
>
> I'm using a slightly patched version of 3.4.3 (dump patch, sort loot,
> showborn)...

The showborn patch might break compatibility. [Check Jukka's
site.] No: good.


Compatibility question 2: Windows version or DOS?

Go to the folder with your NetHack program. Is there a
file there called NetHackW.exe? If so, then you are running the
Windows version (even if you actually run the NetHack.exe file from
the same folder). If not, you are running the DOS version.


The next question is: which levels do you want? Simplest
is to mindlessly ship you everything that I compile for 3.4.3. Next
simplest is to ship you one set of levels.

> ...the new 19 Sokoban levels....

OK.

--
Rob Ellwood

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Rob Ellwood wrote:
> Andy Johnson wrote:
>
>>I'm using a slightly patched version of 3.4.3 (dump patch, sort loot,
>>showborn)...
>
>
> The showborn patch might break compatibility. [Check Jukka's
> site.] No: good.
>
>
> Compatibility question 2: Windows version or DOS?
>
> Go to the folder with your NetHack program. Is there a
> file there called NetHackW.exe? If so, then you are running the
> Windows version (even if you actually run the NetHack.exe file from
> the same folder). If not, you are running the DOS version.
>
I guess I forgot to mention it, but yes, I'm using the Windows version.
If showborn causes a problem, I can always take that patch out; I really
don't care about it and it's not worth breaking compatability.