Metgame changes?

[J]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Since KMW was released, it seems that there has been a significant
change in my local metagame to a more combat heavy environment. Sure
there are still vote and bleed decks, but combat is more and more
common, to the point that I've not seen a table that hasn't been
comprised of at least 50% combat decks since we all got our sets.

Has anyone else noticed this, and if so has it carried across into
tournament play?

By combat, I don't necessarily mean Rush decks, but any deck that plays
a _significant_ amount of combat either as a means to an end or an end
in itself.

--> J

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Orpheus wrote:
> J a écrit :
> > Since KMW was released, it seems that there has been a significant
> > change in my local metagame to a more combat heavy environment.
Sure
> > there are still vote and bleed decks, but combat is more and more
> > common, to the point that I've not seen a table that hasn't been
> > comprised of at least 50% combat decks since we all got our sets.
> >
> > Has anyone else noticed this, and if so has it carried across into
> > tournament play?
> >
> > By combat, I don't necessarily mean Rush decks, but any deck that
plays
> > a _significant_ amount of combat either as a means to an end or an
end
> > in itself.
> >
> > --> J
>
> Here, this change has begun rather with Black Hand. You can also add
> that even non-combat decks now must include more anti-combat if they
> want to survive. Which gives this game a new, more "normal" face :
> combat is, after all, as much a part of the game as the bleeding or
> voting part, even if it's not your winning strategy.
>
> Strangely, this tendency was much diminished in last week's
tournament,
> where very few combat decks were present (although certainly more
> efficient ones than before BH and KMW).
>
> ---------
> Orpheus

My playgroups metagame has become alot more violent with the realese of
KMW. Interstingly enough combat was starting to become more relavent in
the during the Infernal Plague Tournament and the last Constructed
Tournament. I mean the final table was for the Infernal:

!Brujah Bruise/Bleed >>> !Toreador Vote >>> Toreador Big Cap/Untap >>>
!Malk Stealth Bleed >>> Lambach Eye Rush.

The last constrcuted had:

!Tremere Brusie/Bleed >>> Pot/Dom Bruise Bleed >>> !Malk Stealth Bleed
>>> Ventrue Stealth/Vote/Bleed >>> Ventrue Breed/Swarm

The top three placings in the last two tournaments have had at least
two combat decks in them. With a combat (Euro-Brujah) winning the
tournament before that in a heavy bleed environment. Our casual games
have become increasingly bloody and decks that do not back sufficient
combat defense simply get beaten into the mud.

Since KMW I've seen players delving into combat with more enthusiasm.
So my metagame is definately shifting towards stakes, knvies and fists.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

J wrote:
>Has anyone else noticed this, and if so has it carried across into
>tournament play?

I don't know if it has anything to do with KMW (unlikely, really), but
as I have mentioned before, yeah, combat has become *far* more common
than it used to be in competetive play. And not so much "Rush"
decks--those are still pretty few and far between, competetively
speaking, but there is so much more sideline combat in serious decks
now than histoically, the playing a Rush deck is a losing proposition.

I'm seeing much less reliance on simply a handfull of Majesties, or
whatever, for generic combat defense, and a lot more "hit back"--akin
to Cherryholmes' "short chain combat"--either you expect to be blocked
somewhere along the line or you expect to block somewhere along the
line, so you have groups of cards that you can play a couple of in a
combat and do 3 or 4 damage (Carrion Crows/Aid from Bats; TS/Blur;
whatever). Sure, you might end up in torpor too, but anyone you get in
a fight with is going to take damage, disuading them from getting in
fights with you.

The large result I'm seeing out of this is that really focused
bleed/vote decks dend to be filtering out, and decks that used to be
almost completely untennable in a hard core S+B/weenie horde
bleed/power politics environment are doing much better overall. Which
is very interesting and encouraging.

But very sad for folks who like playing regular Rush decks...

:-(

-Peter

 

[orpheus]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

J a écrit :
> Since KMW was released, it seems that there has been a significant
> change in my local metagame to a more combat heavy environment. Sure
> there are still vote and bleed decks, but combat is more and more
> common, to the point that I've not seen a table that hasn't been
> comprised of at least 50% combat decks since we all got our sets.
>
> Has anyone else noticed this, and if so has it carried across into
> tournament play?
>
> By combat, I don't necessarily mean Rush decks, but any deck that plays
> a _significant_ amount of combat either as a means to an end or an end
> in itself.
>
> --> J

Here, this change has begun rather with Black Hand. You can also add
that even non-combat decks now must include more anti-combat if they
want to survive. Which gives this game a new, more "normal" face :
combat is, after all, as much a part of the game as the bleeding or
voting part, even if it's not your winning strategy.

Strangely, this tendency was much diminished in last week's tournament,
where very few combat decks were present (although certainly more
efficient ones than before BH and KMW).

---------
Orpheus

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

pdb6@lightlink.com wrote:

> But very sad for folks who like playing regular Rush decks...

I guess this will spin wildly off into what a "regular" rush deck is,
but the hitback isn't so much a problem if you are playing mid or large
caps, who can soak the shot and taste back the difference. General
hitback is good against weenies who will actually drop from 3 damage, or
against non-combat decks who aren't going to be able to offset your
strike with a Taste (and who tend to view blood as "pool waiting to
happen").

--

David Cherryholmes
david.cherryholmes@gmail.com

"OK. So be it. It's not my view, but whatever makes you
happy, right? I'm all about making you happy, Dave. "

-- LSJ, V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

David Cherryholmes wrote:

> I guess this will spin wildly off into what a "regular" rush deck is,

What kind of fool do you think I am? Wait. Don't answer that...

> but the hitback isn't so much a problem if you are playing mid or large
> caps, who can soak the shot and taste back the difference.

Sure. But it is still a problem combared to, like, squishy Malkavians or
Ventrue relying on Majesty. Getting hit for 3 or 4 damage isn't going to
make a huge difference if you are a 9 point vampire with a Taste, but still,
it'll add up and occasionally result in you going to torpor.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"How does this end?"
"In fire."
Emperor Turhan and Kosh

 

[orpheus]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

(SNIP)

> The large result I'm seeing out of this is that really focused
> bleed/vote decks dend to be filtering out, and decks that used to be
> almost completely untennable in a hard core S+B/weenie horde
> bleed/power politics environment are doing much better overall. Which
> is very interesting and encouraging.

Yes, even toolboxy propositions work much better now than before. Nice.

> But very sad for folks who like playing regular Rush decks...

Well, a rush deck won a tournie here recently, another one was in the
finals this week... Rush is far from dead if well played, which I think
is more at the core of "can it win or not" than anything else, including
metagame.

Orpheus

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Orpheus wrote:

> Well, a rush deck won a tournie here recently, another one was in the
> finals this week... Rush is far from dead if well played, which I think
> is more at the core of "can it win or not" than anything else, including
> metagame.

Oh, sure--combat still works well But still, running into decks with
reliable hit back or Assault Rifles is much harder on the combat deck than,
like, squishy Malkavians.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"How does this end?"
"In fire."
Emperor Turhan and Kosh

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

In message <BE688CDE.1E720%pdb6@lightlink.com>, Peter D Bakija
<pdb6@lightlink.com> writes:
>squishy Malkavians.

Mmmm.... brainz.

--
James Coupe "Why do so many talented people turn out to be sexual
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D deviants? Why can't they just be normal like me and
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 look at internet pictures of men's cocks all day?"
13D7E668C3695D623D5D -- www.livejournal.com/users/scarletdemon/

 

[orpheus]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Peter D Bakija a écrit :
> Orpheus wrote:
>
>
>>Well, a rush deck won a tournie here recently, another one was in the
>>finals this week... Rush is far from dead if well played, which I think
>>is more at the core of "can it win or not" than anything else, including
>>metagame.
>
>
> Oh, sure--combat still works well But still, running into decks with
> reliable hit back or Assault Rifles is much harder on the combat deck than,
> like, squishy Malkavians.

Agreed of course.

Orpheus

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

I think The Sixth Tradition: Destruction may start seeing some play.
Especially since KMW encourages cards like Amaranth, which encourages
cards like Theo Bell who are immune from blood hunt.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

But with combat decks, don't players dedicate some card slots to
overcome this. I know with my Brujah decks I usually run 2-5 cards that
either smash or steal another vampires weapon.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On 25 Mar 2005 07:09:36 -0800, "Preston" <prestonpoulter@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I think The Sixth Tradition: Destruction may start seeing some play.
>Especially since KMW encourages cards like Amaranth, which encourages
>cards like Theo Bell who are immune from blood hunt.

Don't people play with Carlton?

I can see diablerie with some 1-2 cap dork or when your opponent(s)
are locked down or when you have "the hand" (DI and intercept, or
whatever) to stop some random Carlton begetting. I can't see people
relying on diablerie anymore ... if V:TES players could be predicted.
Since they can't, carry on.