Microsoft: Apple's Post-PC View Is Wrong

[captaincharisma]

Post PC? How about just smaller.

SSD = smaller
CPU/GPU on same chip = smaller (APU)
Battery and power needs = smaller

The only things not getting smaller are my hands and things I can read. The question for me is more about interaction time needed. The more time I need, the more I want a mouse/Keyboard/Monitor. The less time I need I am fine with a phone or tablet. Unless the smaller form just does not have the power to pull of the program.

This is where the Surface makes a lot scene. But I have a tablet, a phone, and a desktop. So I'll pass for now.

the surface will have an ARM CPU so odds are it will be limited to the app store and not be compatible with any x86/64 programs

 

[Cazalan]

Apples success is built on clever marketing and packaging style to get people to spend 100% or more markup for product.

There was a time when you had to make the product to be successful. America has lost that in many areas and it's a huge problem.

Foxconn now has higher revenue than Apple. How long before they crank those manufacturing costs up so they can reap profit like Apple?

 

[boiler1990]

Instead of "post-PC," Microsoft has dubbed the era as "PC+," or PC Plus.

Thank you for that clarification.

 

[Marcus52]

I think it says something about how much iOS fails that Android is so popular. As far as mobile devices for sure, Win 8 is the easiest to learn for the new person, and in the long run is the most flexible. It's better than Android. Obviously, it also works best with Windows on the desktop, and since around 90% of us use Windows, that's a very good thing.

The next Windows OS I buy will likely be Win 8. The smart phone will certainly be Windows. That being said, Microsoft is too option-restricted in it's implementation from a desktop user's viewpoint. Not a deal-breaker in light of Win 8's other positives (better storage handing, better security to name 2), at least not for me, but things like not being able to entirely get rid of Metro for those who don't want to see it, ever, on their desktop to not being able to change the type of font on your regular desktop are too restricting. There should also be more ways to use Metro besides as full-screen replacement for the Start menu, and more ways to customize it.

If you aren't using Win 8 strictly because you don't like Metro though, you are really cutting your nose off to spite your face. It can be a very minor part of your Win 8 experience if you just give it a chance.

 

[dennisburke]

I'm a bit confused. Is Turner saying that Apple's iMac, iPhone, and iPad do not share common OS features and integrate with each other? I have no experience with Apple and have always been a PC user and beleive that Windows 8 will be a good thing, as I'm not a fan of Android, but I'm going to stick with 7 until I see how 8 pans out.

 

[punahou1]

Yeah those at my office with imacs have great hardware. One guy's $60 video card went bad on his imac and as it turns out its soldered to the mobo and the only way Apple says it can be fixed is to purchase a new mobo for $600. Yep, thats great hardware and great design of hardware...

 

[Guest]

Technically speaking, all of these devices are PCs: They are computers, and they are personal. MS and Apple are essentially just arguing about how an operating system should be designed based on how a particular form factor is used. Apple has decided to use a different interface for desktop and mobile form factors. MS has decided to use a uniform interface on all form factors. Only time will tell who will come out on top.

 

[johnsonma]

A universal OS is the most logical outcome of the multiple branch's of technology. It will provide the easiest route for compatibility between devices and the apps on those devices. That is the goal here right? Once the mobile hardware tech is a little more advanced I doubt that there will be any issues with a one "OS to rule them all" approach.

If Apple would go this route maybe the district I work for wouldn't have such an issue finding a way to remotely manage iPads. They have a remote management app but the second you open a different app it closes the previous one and ends the session, how completely worthless it that?

 

[marcolorenzo]

[citation][nom]captaincharisma[/nom]i think he ment to say samsung and Intel make great hardware for apple products LOL[/citation]

Hardware doesn't just mean the internal parts. Apple puts all the parts together and designs the end product which is what I think he meant. Of course, I know Apple doesn't do the manufacturing themselves but who does these days?

 

[marcolorenzo]

"you can converge a toaster and a refrigerator, but you know, those things are probably not going to be pleasing to the user."

That's a poor example. Just because both are kitchen appliances doesn't mean they have anything to do with each other. They do completely different things whereas a phone, tablet and PC all perform mostly similar tasks these days. If you wanna compare home appliances then look at how a fridge also incorporates a freezer compartment, or how some washing machines can also become dryers. Those would be more fitting examples. I still can't completely visualise what Microsoft has envisioned but I'm willing to stay open about it.

 

[DjEaZy]

... wow... i wont that weed, that Kevin Turner smokes...

 

[Vladislaus]

[citation][nom]marcolorenzo[/nom]I know Apple doesn't do the manufacturing themselves but who does these days?[/citation]
ASUS?

 

[beoza]

While I like the idea of uniformity across all platforms, I actually prefer Apples approach more. They designed the UI around the device it's installed upon. Tablets and other mobile devices touch is a good thing (dont know how well it would work on a laptop/netbook), as there is usually no keyboard atached. However I can see touch being used on a desktop environment. I remember back in the 80's and early 90's my local library had terminals with touch screens (was a clunky interface but it worked), they also had keyboards attached. This type of interface could be useful in those situations and in educational environments, especially in elementary (Primary) schools. But to force everyone to use the same interface is just wrong. They should have either 1 designed the OS to recognize that you have a touch enable device. Or 2 given you the option to enable it upon install of the OS, because like I said there are environments where touch devices actually make more sense. There are already places where touch devices are already in place such as fast food cash registers, convenience stores that sell sandwiches, Red box kiosks, self check out lanes in stores, gambling machines in casino's, your banks ATM's, although the majority of these run a version of Linux. Touch is good depending on the device it's on, what that device is actually used for, and it's operating environment.

 

[jecastej]

Apple designs the Ax chip inside every iDevice, so Apple is in fact a hardware designer company. They also design de tiny boards on those devices and the antennas. But on the desktop side Apple in less involved.

The PC as a consumer computer is dying because 90% of consumers don't need a full desktop PC. And while desktops and mobile devices have such different computing capabilities and orientation those should have different OSs. The PC is mostly to produce and the mobiles mostly to interact.

But on working or production environments where the user need a complete desktop OS in a powerful hardware in every shape or form factor possible yes I can see MS point of view. However W8 looks to me as a complete failure for my working needs and I am going to wait for W9.

 

[Guest]

The line of thought that Apple may not be a hardware company because they have others put together stuff or doesn't design their own components is interesting. I wonder where the line is where a company is considered hardware company or not. Is Dell? How about Samsung? How rude of me to compare Samsung with likes of Dell and Apple since Samsung makes every component in their devices and only puts them together in their own factories...OR do they? Guess it depends on your view point, but from mine, this Apple hate is dumb. Samsung, Dell, and Apple make stuff based on what tech is out in the world. If you expect any of these companies to care if they use components made by someone else or have someone else put their stuff together, you would be sadly mistaken. Their business is to make money.

 

[Bloob]

Am I hearing a smartphone dock that connects to keyboard + mouse and display in the works? Maybe when they add explorer to the RT-edition in a few years.

 

[Bloob]

[citation][nom]Bloob[/nom]Am I hearing a smartphone dock that connects to keyboard + mouse and display in the works? Maybe when they add explorer to the RT-edition in a few years.[/citation]
Forgot to P.S; it is also not just about the UI, it is also about API-compatibility.

 

[killerclick]

Windows 8 would be awesome if Metro was optional and Metro apps were allowed to run inside windows in desktop mode.

As it stands however, Microsoft is cutting the entire Windows software ecosystem in half and trying to kill the desktop ASAP, just because they're salivating over that 30% cut from app sales and the iPad money Apple is getting.

And that's why they'll fail - because they're reactive and want to out-Apple Apple. They tried with Zune and failed, they tried with WP7 they failed, now they want to throw 20 years of Windows under the bus in the name of "innovation" (app and hardware sales profits), and it's going to be so satisfying to watch them fall flat on their face.

 

[TEAMSWITCHER]

[citation][nom]Marcus52[/nom]If you aren't using Win 8 strictly because you don't like Metro though, you are really cutting your nose off to spite your face.[/citation]

I think of it more like keeping my money and telling Microsoft to go to hell. Metro isn't just a replacement for the Start Screen, it's the future replacement for the entire Windows experience. If successful, there will be no desktop, no moveable/resizeable windows, and no task bar. They are bastardizing their flagship product to leverage it's popularity against the latest threat to their monopoly - the iPad. And ALL desktop Windows users must endure a huge downgrade in the process.

Have you seen the "Mission Control" feature in OS X Lion? It's an awesome Multiple Desktop window manager and application switcher. Mac users got that feature a year ago, and Windows 8 has nothing even close to it. What does MS do for desktop users - repackage existing Explorer functions into a Ribbon - what a ridiculous waste of time! I swear they are not even trying!

I want Windows 8 to fail! Microsoft needs to separate the Tablet and Desktop experience so that each may be an advanced accordingly. And they better do it soon. I'll stick with Windows 7 as long as I can, but damn those Macs are starting to look damn good compared to the steaming pile of dog crap that is Windows 8.

 

[rantoc]

[citation][nom]jecastej[/nom]Apple designs the Ax chip inside every iDevice, so Apple is in fact a hardware designer company.[/citation]

Apple hardly designs the memory controller, the cpu, the gpu or the connectivity parts, they just glue them together on a SoC. A real artist does the major parts himself, not just copy and paste already made examples and claim the glory. I would not call apples "copy and paste" approach to designing for real hardware designing mate, that's what intel (cpu), arm (cpu), amd (cpu + gpu) and nvidia (gpu) does for instance! They design ALL the major components for their chips and are artists worthy of calling themselves hardware designers!

 

[twelch82]

It should be one OS, with different interfaces based on the way you interact with it. Trying to force everything to use one interface when the method of interaction is significantly different is only going to result in an inferior experience on every device. MS is about to figure this out with Windows 8.

 

[dheadley]

I really don't get this whole Apple is not a hardware maker thing that so many want to beat into the ground. Intel does NOT make all their own hardware. Samsung does NOT make all their own hardware. ASUS does NOT make all their own hardware. SONY does NOT make all their own hardware. HP does NOT make all their own hardware. DELL does NOT make all their own hardware. Toshiba does NOT make all their own hardware. ACER does NOT make all their own hardware. Motorola does NOT make all their own hardware. Nokia does NOT make all their own hardware. Microsoft. Lenovo. Seagate. Western Digital. HTC. LG. Vizio. Lexmark. Nintendo. Any name you care to throw out there. They don't make everything themselves. No electronics maker. Not appliance maker. No one does.

 

[Cantisque]

Windows 8 is the new era for the PC? Ohhhh dear... Ummm, when did you say the next Playstation was coming?

 

[falchard]

Ohh crap, Apple is onto me. I hope they don't sue me when I bring my refrigerator/toaster concept to market. Just imagine the possibility of making 8 slices of toast without moving 1 step from the fridge.

 

[freggo]

One OS for every possible platform; how shortsighted is that?
Win 7 uses up most of a 30GB SSD boot drive; so what are they going to do; cram 60GB drives into everything from a pad, to a phone to whatever next gadget comes out?
Seriously M$, that's a dumb approach and asking for more trouble than you need.