damianrobertjones
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- Aug 14, 2010
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shikamaru31789
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- Nov 23, 2012
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I'm not sure that Orth's twitter quotes are even a confirmation. It could be part of that rumored negative marketing scheme of Microsoft's, where they leak false negative info about their console and then blow people away at the unveiling when none of those negative features are in the console. Even if they were planning always online, Microsoft has definitely seen the negative backlash now, they're bound to have seen the comments with about a 10-1 like/dislike ratio on pretty much every gaming site where people say they won't be buying the 720 if it's online only or blocks used games. They should have time to fix their mistakes before the uneviling.
As a fan of both the Original Xbox and the 360 over Playstation 2 and 3, I'm trying hard to remain faithful to Microsoft and believe that these rumors are just that. I really want Halo 5, 6, Halo 2 HD, and Fable 4. But, with the PS4 rumored to be more powerful than the 720, the PS4 controller having improved ergonomics, triggers, and sticks compared to the PS3 controller, and a few decent looking PS4 exclusives, I have no problem switching over if they totally botch the 720 up with always online, used game blocking, and a kinect that spys on you.
I know that always-online is a definite 720 killer for me, I have a crappy DSL connection that drops out whenever there is moisture outside, and frequently fails at peak times and it's all I can afford in my area, where the internet is far more expensive than the US average. That patent for having the Kinect spy on people to make sure too many people aren't watching content is a killer as well. I could probably deal with used-games blocking, I've only occasionally bought used games in the past, the big issue for used games blocking for me is not being able to take my games to my friend's houses to play them without lugging the console around. But I could live with it, for Halo and Fable. But if it's always online and spying on me, I won't be getting it until it is much cheaper later in the generation and only then just for exclusives or until they come to their senses and drop the feature in an update.
As a fan of both the Original Xbox and the 360 over Playstation 2 and 3, I'm trying hard to remain faithful to Microsoft and believe that these rumors are just that. I really want Halo 5, 6, Halo 2 HD, and Fable 4. But, with the PS4 rumored to be more powerful than the 720, the PS4 controller having improved ergonomics, triggers, and sticks compared to the PS3 controller, and a few decent looking PS4 exclusives, I have no problem switching over if they totally botch the 720 up with always online, used game blocking, and a kinect that spys on you.
I know that always-online is a definite 720 killer for me, I have a crappy DSL connection that drops out whenever there is moisture outside, and frequently fails at peak times and it's all I can afford in my area, where the internet is far more expensive than the US average. That patent for having the Kinect spy on people to make sure too many people aren't watching content is a killer as well. I could probably deal with used-games blocking, I've only occasionally bought used games in the past, the big issue for used games blocking for me is not being able to take my games to my friend's houses to play them without lugging the console around. But I could live with it, for Halo and Fable. But if it's always online and spying on me, I won't be getting it until it is much cheaper later in the generation and only then just for exclusives or until they come to their senses and drop the feature in an update.
"Sorry, I don't get the drama around having an 'always on' console," he tweeted, presumably talking about rumors of an Internet requirement for Xbox Infinity. "Every device now is 'always on'. That's the world we live in. #dealwithit."
lol yeah sure. I deal with it by not buying this product.
It's not the industry standard btw. Except Microsoft founds a new industry without Sony and Nintendo in it.
Microsoft's profits go down? That's the world we live in. #dealwithit
lol yeah sure. I deal with it by not buying this product.
It's not the industry standard btw. Except Microsoft founds a new industry without Sony and Nintendo in it.
Microsoft's profits go down? That's the world we live in. #dealwithit
SirGCal
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- Apr 2, 2010
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They are only hurting themselves.
Sure in the big cities, broadband is commonplace. But in the rural areas, there are still many places that only have dialup or other non-always active internet... US is one of the worst for country wide broadband support actually. Sad but...
So all of those people won't even be able to play games on a new console if they wanted it. Regardless, that's a horrible business plan in anyone's book. So you stop a few people pirating by blocking a fair part of the population the ability to even use the unit... Smooth...
That's not even to mention those of us who refuse anything with always-on DRM type simply on principal. (why I will still play SimCity 4 instead of 5... etc.) I guess someone had to be first to really take a dump on their own cash income to 'try' to stop hackers. And it still won't work... They'll be some console rooting system and pirated ROMs to get. Honestly you probably just made it easier then your old 'backwards read DVD' of the 360.
And that's not even to mention stepping on the toes of such awesome stores as GameStop, etc. I haven't turned on my 360 in over 3 years now. Infact I just sent it to Goodwill after dusting it off and boxing it up to make room for my new boys (twins) along with my PS2/3 and Wii. Just never use em. If I wana play a game, it's always on the PC and my PC is cutting edge so it plays everything at it's capable 144Hz (FPS) and I'm planning on 4-way GPU and 3-monitor expansion soon so...
Still, I would have purchased the 720 (or whatever it's name will be) just cause I always have and I do own a few 'live' fun entertaining games to burn time now and again. But not now. I won't support a forced always-on system simply due to the people you screw over. My $ is all I have to argue with and M$ isn't going to get it this time...
Sure in the big cities, broadband is commonplace. But in the rural areas, there are still many places that only have dialup or other non-always active internet... US is one of the worst for country wide broadband support actually. Sad but...
So all of those people won't even be able to play games on a new console if they wanted it. Regardless, that's a horrible business plan in anyone's book. So you stop a few people pirating by blocking a fair part of the population the ability to even use the unit... Smooth...
That's not even to mention those of us who refuse anything with always-on DRM type simply on principal. (why I will still play SimCity 4 instead of 5... etc.) I guess someone had to be first to really take a dump on their own cash income to 'try' to stop hackers. And it still won't work... They'll be some console rooting system and pirated ROMs to get. Honestly you probably just made it easier then your old 'backwards read DVD' of the 360.
And that's not even to mention stepping on the toes of such awesome stores as GameStop, etc. I haven't turned on my 360 in over 3 years now. Infact I just sent it to Goodwill after dusting it off and boxing it up to make room for my new boys (twins) along with my PS2/3 and Wii. Just never use em. If I wana play a game, it's always on the PC and my PC is cutting edge so it plays everything at it's capable 144Hz (FPS) and I'm planning on 4-way GPU and 3-monitor expansion soon so...
Still, I would have purchased the 720 (or whatever it's name will be) just cause I always have and I do own a few 'live' fun entertaining games to burn time now and again. But not now. I won't support a forced always-on system simply due to the people you screw over. My $ is all I have to argue with and M$ isn't going to get it this time...
shikamaru31789
Honorable
- Nov 23, 2012
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The more I think about it, the more I can't see them possibly going through with always-online. They've got to be purposefully leaking negative info just so they can blow people away at the unveiling. Think about it, Microsoft's strongest market is the US, it's the only major market where the 360 leads the PS3, the PS3 leads by a small margin in Europe and a huge margin in Japan. The internet infrastructure in the US is terrible, there are rural areas where the only options for internet are dial-up and expensive satellite internet (which is bad for gaming anyway due to high ping). Even in the larger towns and cities in rural areas, like my city of about 25,000 that's the biggest in a rural farming county, the only affordable option is DSL, which is patchy at best, often dropping due to moisture and peak traffic. And there are gamers in those rural areas, they aren't just in suburban and urban areas, I personally know several gamers that live in the more rural areas of my county, and I even know of a Gamestop in a pretty small town in a secluded rural area. If Microsoft goes through with always online, they'll only hurt themselves in a major sort of way in their main market. They can't possibly be planning on going through with this.
shikamaru31789
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- Nov 23, 2012
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That's terrible, my patchy DSL died while I was trying to write a comment on this very article. Microsoft *shakes head*
Most people have a "always on" wifi in their house with a console now so whats the big deal with this? I game on PC with a always on connection. So Bleh.
mapesdhs
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- Jan 22, 2007
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Alas I fear all it will take is one generation of youngsters to grow up where always-on
DRM-based gaming is normal and that'll be that, it'll be here to stay. This could be easy
to push through given how used to being connected most youngsters are now because
of smart phone use.
Many on this forum say no to these DRM/always-on ideas (me included), but I suspect the
somewhat more tech-savvy crowd who read sites like toms do not constitute the majority
of gamers, especially as Sony, MS & Nintendo have pushed gaming into a much wider
market, ie. gaming aimed at families, etc. Sticking with PC gaming may only be a temporary
solution for those who care, as it seems ever more games companies adopt always-on must-
connect systems, download-only setups, etc.
I won't be getting any next-gen console; I'm just glad there are so many slightly older PC
games I haven't yet played, those which do not require any net connection or activation,
etc., which will keep me entertained for many years yet. I've been buying a few recently
(dirt cheap on eBay, eg. original Crysis cost me less than 3 UKP), and conveniently a PC
with some carefully chosen 2nd-hand hw allows such games to be played with the detail
maxed-out (my PC has two GTX 560Ti/900MHz SLI), so they look reeeally good. 8)
Atm I'm playing Oblivion IV and Stalker SHOC; with the mods & expansions available, these
can carry on for ages. I finished Crysis last week (going through it again atm, so much fun),
but my unplayed stack includes Crysis Warhead, Crysis2, Borderlands, CoD 4, CoD WaW,
Red Faction Guerilla, Stalker COP, FarCry, FarCry2, plus the Shivering Isles & Knights of the
Nine expansions for Oblivion. Who needs next-gen consoles? I'm all set for years. 😀 So if
there are older games you haven't played, go get 'em! 8)
If not, well, that's a tough one. If I was in the position of someone who was 'up to date' with
gaming, I really don't know what I would do. bebangs, I gave you a +1 as I empathise with
your stance, but what if such a boycott meant you couldn't play any of the next-gen games?
Does the minority of the gaming community who care about these issues have the power to
prevent total DRM/always-on adoption in the long term? Sadly, I think probably not.
Ian.
DRM-based gaming is normal and that'll be that, it'll be here to stay. This could be easy
to push through given how used to being connected most youngsters are now because
of smart phone use.
Many on this forum say no to these DRM/always-on ideas (me included), but I suspect the
somewhat more tech-savvy crowd who read sites like toms do not constitute the majority
of gamers, especially as Sony, MS & Nintendo have pushed gaming into a much wider
market, ie. gaming aimed at families, etc. Sticking with PC gaming may only be a temporary
solution for those who care, as it seems ever more games companies adopt always-on must-
connect systems, download-only setups, etc.
I won't be getting any next-gen console; I'm just glad there are so many slightly older PC
games I haven't yet played, those which do not require any net connection or activation,
etc., which will keep me entertained for many years yet. I've been buying a few recently
(dirt cheap on eBay, eg. original Crysis cost me less than 3 UKP), and conveniently a PC
with some carefully chosen 2nd-hand hw allows such games to be played with the detail
maxed-out (my PC has two GTX 560Ti/900MHz SLI), so they look reeeally good. 8)
Atm I'm playing Oblivion IV and Stalker SHOC; with the mods & expansions available, these
can carry on for ages. I finished Crysis last week (going through it again atm, so much fun),
but my unplayed stack includes Crysis Warhead, Crysis2, Borderlands, CoD 4, CoD WaW,
Red Faction Guerilla, Stalker COP, FarCry, FarCry2, plus the Shivering Isles & Knights of the
Nine expansions for Oblivion. Who needs next-gen consoles? I'm all set for years. 😀 So if
there are older games you haven't played, go get 'em! 8)
If not, well, that's a tough one. If I was in the position of someone who was 'up to date' with
gaming, I really don't know what I would do. bebangs, I gave you a +1 as I empathise with
your stance, but what if such a boycott meant you couldn't play any of the next-gen games?
Does the minority of the gaming community who care about these issues have the power to
prevent total DRM/always-on adoption in the long term? Sadly, I think probably not.
Ian.
animeman59
Distinguished
- Dec 30, 2009
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Didn't see MS beating Sony and the PS4 this round anyway, now I don't see Xbox 720 even surviving (if it weren't for MS's deep pockets anyways). Sony isn't entirely innocent either, I don't trust all this "eye" or spy crap either.
BTW I'm probably the only one here that has never even played on a PS3 or XBOX 360 before let alone owned one. I will be sticking with my PC/windows until they no longer support windows 7 and force me to use Win8 or win9.... then I will switch to linux.
BTW I'm probably the only one here that has never even played on a PS3 or XBOX 360 before let alone owned one. I will be sticking with my PC/windows until they no longer support windows 7 and force me to use Win8 or win9.... then I will switch to linux.
alextheblue
Distinguished
- Apr 3, 2001
- 3,078
- 106
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[citation][nom]Hando567[/nom]Also, I sometimes would bring a console with me when I travel, usually without internet at my destination, so in these cases I guess you are just saying I am SOL, and need to deal with not being able to use the console which I paid good money for?[/citation]I won't go anywhere where I don't at least have 3G. 3G would be good enough for this - hotspot.
alextheblue
Distinguished
- Apr 3, 2001
- 3,078
- 106
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[citation][nom]razor512[/nom]What happens if microsoft decides that they no longer want to do gaming and move on to something else, then decide that it is no longer profitable to run those DRM servers (well your consoles become a paperweight)What happens if they go out of business a few years from now ad you still want to play some retro xbox 720 games? well you cant because there will be no DRM server.[/citation]OK, this is the stupidest thing I've read today. They'd sell their gaming division to another company and they would continue support.
Even if they decided to leave gaming and there was nobody around to buy, they would just patch the software so there would be no more DRM checks.
Even if they decided to leave gaming and there was nobody around to buy, they would just patch the software so there would be no more DRM checks.
kinggraves
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- May 14, 2010
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Orth can #dealwithit when he's looking for a new job next week. Someone in such a high position with MS should probably realize a public and open Twitter feed is no place for a private conversation between friends. Whether or not he intended to be a mouthpiece for MS, he is one when he speaks in public while working there. What we live in is an open and connected world Orth, you need to keep your privacy settings on to begin with if you're going to be an arrogant, spoiled twit.
Microsoft's lack of denial is the only confirmation I need. This information generates negative press among consumers and would be stopped immediately by saying "No, we aren't doing that." if it weren't true. It isn't even Microsoft's choice. Publishers like EA and Acti are pushing for this kind of control, and publishers are who hold the cards here. People buy the console that has the titles they want, exclusivity is key. If MS doesn't give Activision what they want, they don't get the next CoD. That hurts sales. PS4 fanboys should hold off as well, Sony's in the same boat.
Microsoft's lack of denial is the only confirmation I need. This information generates negative press among consumers and would be stopped immediately by saying "No, we aren't doing that." if it weren't true. It isn't even Microsoft's choice. Publishers like EA and Acti are pushing for this kind of control, and publishers are who hold the cards here. People buy the console that has the titles they want, exclusivity is key. If MS doesn't give Activision what they want, they don't get the next CoD. That hurts sales. PS4 fanboys should hold off as well, Sony's in the same boat.
alextheblue
Distinguished
- Apr 3, 2001
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[citation][nom]bustapr[/nom] precisely simcity and diablo fails were enough to prove that drm doesnt work.[/citation]Like it or not, those games sold quite well. What I didn't like about Diablo III had more to do with how it was inferior it was to Diablo II in some ways.
ubercake
Splendid
- Oct 28, 2009
- 7,270
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Hopefully, they won't have red rings of death on each console for the first year of sales.
Always on seems to be ok if it offered some type of 'sleep' mode. If I lived somewhere where my internet connection were constantly going down, I wouldn't buy something that requires a persistent connection.
Since I don't have that worry, I'll pick up the next iteration of the XBOX as long as the cooling solution isn't something requiring loud fans to run all the time.
Always on seems to be ok if it offered some type of 'sleep' mode. If I lived somewhere where my internet connection were constantly going down, I wouldn't buy something that requires a persistent connection.
Since I don't have that worry, I'll pick up the next iteration of the XBOX as long as the cooling solution isn't something requiring loud fans to run all the time.
ericburnby
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- Mar 4, 2010
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I love hearing this from MS as I know all the losers, thieves and pirates will be mad as hell and start coming up with all their usual "excuses" why it's such a bad idea.
Don't like it, then don't buy it. MS doesn't care since it won't affect their sales at all.
Must be frustrating to be a raging nerd and realizing you have absolutely no influence over MS (or any computer/tech company).
Don't like it, then don't buy it. MS doesn't care since it won't affect their sales at all.
Must be frustrating to be a raging nerd and realizing you have absolutely no influence over MS (or any computer/tech company).
razor512
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- Jun 16, 2007
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[citation][nom]alextheblue[/nom]OK, this is the stupidest thing I've read today. They'd sell their gaming division to another company and they would continue support.Even if they decided to leave gaming and there was nobody around to buy, they would just patch the software so there would be no more DRM checks.[/citation]
that is just wishful thinking. if a company is going out of business or, or getting rid of a division of their company then the last think they would want to do is spend extra money patching software they no longer want to support.
an example of this is with the HP touchpad. HO ditched webOS but did not patch the activation requirement, so when they finish fully shutting down the webOS servers, users with the HP touchpad will be unable to use webOS if they decide to reformat the device after the shutdown. (I have a HP touchpad and I will soon face that issue (though I am happy with android on it )
Nothing last forever so it is valid to predict that when Microsoft decides to leave gaming that they will just shut things down and leave everyone with paperweights. But there is no way to really predict for certain that they will willingly incur a huge cost to get a team of programmers to patch out all of the online based DRM, or if they sell it off, that the next company till assume the responsibilities and not simply buy the division for it's technology to use in something else.
that is just wishful thinking. if a company is going out of business or, or getting rid of a division of their company then the last think they would want to do is spend extra money patching software they no longer want to support.
an example of this is with the HP touchpad. HO ditched webOS but did not patch the activation requirement, so when they finish fully shutting down the webOS servers, users with the HP touchpad will be unable to use webOS if they decide to reformat the device after the shutdown. (I have a HP touchpad and I will soon face that issue (though I am happy with android on it )
Nothing last forever so it is valid to predict that when Microsoft decides to leave gaming that they will just shut things down and leave everyone with paperweights. But there is no way to really predict for certain that they will willingly incur a huge cost to get a team of programmers to patch out all of the online based DRM, or if they sell it off, that the next company till assume the responsibilities and not simply buy the division for it's technology to use in something else.
somebodyspecial
Honorable
- Sep 20, 2012
- 1,459
- 0
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If piracy was that big of an issue, The Witcher 2 would have sold like crap. umm, it didn't.
The CEO commented, the least pirated version was the UNPROTECTED gog.com version...LOL. The people that pirate won't change no matter what you do and yes, will always find a way around it. You only need minimal protection to stop simple trading/sharing of games between friends etc (like a key, which a company can disable via a patch later if they are going out of business). Anything more complicated DRM wise, is a waste and defeated in minutes by the people who REALLY pirate everything. Even win8 was defeated before it hit a box. EVery PS3, xbox360, wii etc game is on the newsgroups/torrents. They need to just give this up and go back to keys. This should allow you to drop the cost of the product producing even more honest sales.
If torchlight 2 can make a mint on $20 (same as a $60 retail box ~14 profit for each sale says CEO) then what is the problem? Legends of grimrock made enough to set their company up for the next 5-7 years (basically funding their next two games). It was on gog also as DRM free. Not much point in pirating a $15 game that's not ripping you off entertainment wise (or even $20 if it's quite good like torchlights etc). Nobody plays torchlights or grimrock and comes away saying, dang, they just ripped me off at $20/15...LOL. Nobody bought Serious Sam's and said for $20 I was robbed either. They were a blast for that price.
http://www.vg247.com/2012/09/18/torchlight-2-price-is-as-viable-and-as-profitable-as-selling-a-60-box/
We need to enter the age of Runic, Almost Human etc type devs at $15-30 and have EA/MS/Blizz go the way of the dodo bird. If grimrock 2 grows content to ~double, I'd be happy to pay $25 (based on the pics they've posted - looks like a pretty large graphical upgrade over grimrock1). They've stolen our manuals, or boxes, trinkets that used to come with games (cloth maps, story books, miniatures, etc like back in the ultima days) etc. They've double the game cost ($60 for most AAA now), and added pesky DRM pissing us off. Piracy is created by these jerks with DRM charging $60 for a short 10hr experience; it's killed by the likes of Runic/Almost Human. I'll pay $15-20 over an over to torchlight/grimrock types as I'm at least getting my money's worth vs. having all the mentioned gizmos missing. All the stuff is still gone with them but they aren't charging me $60 for it still. With more content I'd be happy giving them $25-30 for their next versions for a long time to come (or whatever IP they come up with).
I will never pay $60 for DRM again (or even $40
).
The CEO commented, the least pirated version was the UNPROTECTED gog.com version...LOL. The people that pirate won't change no matter what you do and yes, will always find a way around it. You only need minimal protection to stop simple trading/sharing of games between friends etc (like a key, which a company can disable via a patch later if they are going out of business). Anything more complicated DRM wise, is a waste and defeated in minutes by the people who REALLY pirate everything. Even win8 was defeated before it hit a box. EVery PS3, xbox360, wii etc game is on the newsgroups/torrents. They need to just give this up and go back to keys. This should allow you to drop the cost of the product producing even more honest sales.
If torchlight 2 can make a mint on $20 (same as a $60 retail box ~14 profit for each sale says CEO) then what is the problem? Legends of grimrock made enough to set their company up for the next 5-7 years (basically funding their next two games). It was on gog also as DRM free. Not much point in pirating a $15 game that's not ripping you off entertainment wise (or even $20 if it's quite good like torchlights etc). Nobody plays torchlights or grimrock and comes away saying, dang, they just ripped me off at $20/15...LOL. Nobody bought Serious Sam's and said for $20 I was robbed either. They were a blast for that price.
http://www.vg247.com/2012/09/18/torchlight-2-price-is-as-viable-and-as-profitable-as-selling-a-60-box/
We need to enter the age of Runic, Almost Human etc type devs at $15-30 and have EA/MS/Blizz go the way of the dodo bird. If grimrock 2 grows content to ~double, I'd be happy to pay $25 (based on the pics they've posted - looks like a pretty large graphical upgrade over grimrock1). They've stolen our manuals, or boxes, trinkets that used to come with games (cloth maps, story books, miniatures, etc like back in the ultima days) etc. They've double the game cost ($60 for most AAA now), and added pesky DRM pissing us off. Piracy is created by these jerks with DRM charging $60 for a short 10hr experience; it's killed by the likes of Runic/Almost Human. I'll pay $15-20 over an over to torchlight/grimrock types as I'm at least getting my money's worth vs. having all the mentioned gizmos missing. All the stuff is still gone with them but they aren't charging me $60 for it still. With more content I'd be happy giving them $25-30 for their next versions for a long time to come (or whatever IP they come up with).
I will never pay $60 for DRM again (or even $40
).- Status
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