Mitigating Blindness with Hyperspectral, Electrical, Cyber..

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Here's the toughest one I've come across yet... The character is
normally blind, but has cybernetics to not only mitigate this, but to
also add various sight-related advantages. Plus, it's all custom-made
equipment that probably doesn't exist anywhere else in the campaign.

Blindness, Cybernetics w/Electrical, Hyperspectral Vision, Telescopic
Vision, and 360-degree Vision, and possibly Signature Gear are the
Advantages and Disadvantages involved.

How in the world does this one come together?


-- Matt Jozwiak
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 18:08:02 -0500, Red Beard <Akahige@HotPOP.com>
wrote:

>Here's the toughest one I've come across yet... The character is
>normally blind, but has cybernetics to not only mitigate this,

So in what sense is he "normally" blind? Can he take his eyes out?
Does he? Do his optics require regular maintenance from a certified
professional? Because you know if all he has is cybereyes that are no
more fragile than regular eyes, then just he just plain isn't blind.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 23:44:33 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David
Johnston) wrote:

>So in what sense is he "normally" blind? Can he take his eyes out?
>Does he? Do his optics require regular maintenance from a certified
>professional? Because you know if all he has is cybereyes that are no
>more fragile than regular eyes, then just he just plain isn't blind.

His optics are part of a helmet that can be unstrapped and removed.
They may also be vulnerable to electricity. If any maintenance is
involved, it is negligible and probably performed by the owner.

Oh, and I forgot... The eyes can also use a "Flash" attack.

-- M.J.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 18:55:44 -0500, Red Beard <Akahige@HotPOP.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 23:44:33 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David
>Johnston) wrote:
>
>>So in what sense is he "normally" blind? Can he take his eyes out?
>>Does he? Do his optics require regular maintenance from a certified
>>professional? Because you know if all he has is cybereyes that are no
>>more fragile than regular eyes, then just he just plain isn't blind.
>
>His optics are part of a helmet that can be unstrapped and removed.
>They may also be vulnerable to electricity. If any maintenance is
>involved, it is negligible and probably performed by the owner.

Is there any reason for the character to _not_ remove the helmet? If he
can just leave the helmet on all the time, then I'd also say that he
simply isn't blind.


>Oh, and I forgot... The eyes can also use a "Flash" attack.

That's just a Natural Attack that happens to come from the eye area,
IMHO. (If you looked into the eyes of Medusa, you were turned to stone;
that was a Natural Attack that happened to come from Medusa's eye area.
The same principle applies.)

--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> robkelk -at- gmail -dot- com
"And really, you think people who watch Japanese cartoons would be a
little more understanding of the seemingly odd hobbies of other fringe
groups." - Chris "Blade" McNeil on rec.arts.anime.misc, 20 Jan 2004
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 18:55:44 -0500, Red Beard <Akahige@HotPOP.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 23:44:33 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David
>Johnston) wrote:
>
>>So in what sense is he "normally" blind? Can he take his eyes out?
>>Does he? Do his optics require regular maintenance from a certified
>>professional? Because you know if all he has is cybereyes that are no
>>more fragile than regular eyes, then just he just plain isn't blind.
>
>His optics are part of a helmet that can be unstrapped and removed.

That's Removable. -5% (considering that other people probably can't
use it). Look on page 117. Compare the DR of the helmet to the table
under "Breakable". Add another -5% if the helmet can break down when

damaged before it is totally destroyed.

>They may also be vulnerable to electricity.

If the helmet isn't insulated then the DR is cheaper because it
doesn't work on electricity.

If any maintenance is
>involved, it is negligible and probably performed by the owner.
>
>Oh, and I forgot... The eyes can also use a "Flash" attack.

You just add up all the advantages he has in the helmet and apply the
total gadget modifier to them to make them cheaper. Then you subtract
the total gadget modifier from 100 and use that as the modifier on
your blindness.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

David Johnston wrote:

> You just add up all the advantages he has in the helmet and apply the
> total gadget modifier to them to make them cheaper. Then you subtract
> the total gadget modifier from 100 and use that as the modifier on
> your blindness.

You can also buy signature gear and apply that cost to the abilities of the
helmet that are available as normal equipment.

Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 00:28:40 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David
Johnston) wrote:

>You just add up all the advantages he has in the helmet and apply the
>total gadget modifier to them to make them cheaper. Then you subtract
>the total gadget modifier from 100 and use that as the modifier on
>your blindness.

So...

Affliction (Blindness, +50%) [15] + 360° Vision [25] + Electrical
[-20] + Telescopic Vision 4 [20] = Gadget (Durability, -15%; Size,
-10%; Can Be Stolen, -10%) [26].

Blindness (Mitigated by Gadget, -74%) [-13].

Is that what you mean?

-- M.J.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 19:09:41 -0500, Rob Kelk <robkelk@deadspam.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 18:55:44 -0500, Red Beard <Akahige@HotPOP.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 23:44:33 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David
>>Johnston) wrote:
>>
>>>So in what sense is he "normally" blind? Can he take his eyes out?
>>>Does he? Do his optics require regular maintenance from a certified
>>>professional? Because you know if all he has is cybereyes that are no
>>>more fragile than regular eyes, then just he just plain isn't blind.
>>
>>His optics are part of a helmet that can be unstrapped and removed.
>>They may also be vulnerable to electricity. If any maintenance is
>>involved, it is negligible and probably performed by the owner.
>
>Is there any reason for the character to _not_ remove the helmet?

One reason is obvious. I don't know if you ever tried to sleep in a
motorcycle helmet but...
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 22:46:23 -0500, Red Beard <Akahige@HotPOP.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 00:28:40 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David
>Johnston) wrote:
>
>>You just add up all the advantages he has in the helmet and apply the
>>total gadget modifier to them to make them cheaper. Then you subtract
>>the total gadget modifier from 100 and use that as the modifier on
>>your blindness.
>
>So...
>
>Affliction (Blindness, +50%) [15] + 360° Vision [25] + Electrical
>[-20]

I don't understand where you got + Electrical [-20] from.


+ Telescopic Vision 4 [20] = Gadget (Durability, -15%; Size,
>-10%;

Or for that matter the "size" modifier.

Can Be Stolen, -10%) [26].
>
>Blindness (Mitigated by Gadget, -74%) [-13].
>
>Is that what you mean?


No, you subtracted the point total. You should subtract the gadget
modifier total. If you got -45% off the cost of the advantages, then
you should get -55% off the value of the blindness.

>
>-- M.J.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 18:12:36 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David
Johnston) wrote:

>No, you subtracted the point total. You should subtract the gadget
>modifier total. If you got -45% off the cost of the advantages, then
>you should get -55% off the value of the blindness.

Ok, after a little contemplation, I think I got it right this time...

Blindness is being mitigated by the gadget. Therefore, only gadget
limitations (Breakable, Can Be Stolen, etc.) comprise the cost of the
Mitigator. Once Blindness is eliminated, everything else the gadget
does is an Advantage to which any desired limitations can apply.

Gadget Powers (80 points total)...
360° Vision [25]
Affliction (Blindness, +50%) [15]
Hyperspectral Vision [25]
Telescopic Vision 3 [15]

Gadget Limitations (-50% total)...
Temporary Disadvantage (Electrical), -20%
Breakable (DR 5, SM -7), -20%
Can Be Stolen, -10%

Result...
Optics Helm ([see above], -50%) [40]
Blindness (Mitigator, -50%) [-25]


Now, what's the proper way to write it out?


-- Matt Jozwiak
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

One question that might or might not really matter - why did
the player decide the character is blind? If he's got a decent
backstory where the character was blinded but managed to find
a technological way to mostly overcome it, great. If the player
decided he wanted this cool helmet and hey, why not make the
character blind since the helmet can counteract it, free points!
then that's not so great. The game mechanics way of dealing
with it would be the same either way, but I'd be a lot more
willing to fudge things in favor of the first guy and a lot
more likely to make sure all the points add up for the second
guy.

Pete
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On 3 Feb 2005 18:25:19 GMT, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote:

>the player decide the character is blind? If he's got a decent
>backstory where the character was blinded but managed to find
>a technological way to mostly overcome it, great. If the player
>decided he wanted this cool helmet and hey, why not make the
>character blind since the helmet can counteract it, free points!
>then that's not so great. The game mechanics way of dealing

The character's an NPC that I'm trying to adapt from fiction. There's
not much information available about his backstory, though it's been
suggested he's blind without his presumably-cybernetic helmet.

-- M.J.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 00:36:59 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David
Johnston) wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 19:09:41 -0500, Rob Kelk <robkelk@deadspam.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 18:55:44 -0500, Red Beard <Akahige@HotPOP.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 23:44:33 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David
>>>Johnston) wrote:
>>>
>>>>So in what sense is he "normally" blind? Can he take his eyes out?
>>>>Does he? Do his optics require regular maintenance from a certified
>>>>professional? Because you know if all he has is cybereyes that are no
>>>>more fragile than regular eyes, then just he just plain isn't blind.
>>>
>>>His optics are part of a helmet that can be unstrapped and removed.
>>>They may also be vulnerable to electricity. If any maintenance is
>>>involved, it is negligible and probably performed by the owner.
>>
>>Is there any reason for the character to _not_ remove the helmet?
>
>One reason is obvious. I don't know if you ever tried to sleep in a
>motorcycle helmet but...

Oh, right... But one doesn't usually look at things when asleep, so I
think we can ignore this case.

--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> robkelk -at- gmail -dot- com
"And really, you think people who watch Japanese cartoons would be a
little more understanding of the seemingly odd hobbies of other fringe
groups." - Chris "Blade" McNeil on rec.arts.anime.misc, 20 Jan 2004
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 16:42:01 -0500, Red Beard <Akahige@HotPOP.com>
wrote:


>
>Gadget Limitations (-50% total)...
> Temporary Disadvantage (Electrical), -20%

What is that? Whatever it is, it sounds like you've valued it too
highly.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 23:47:45 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David
Johnston) wrote:

>>Gadget Limitations (-50% total)...
>> Temporary Disadvantage (Electrical), -20%
>
>What is that? Whatever it is, it sounds like you've valued it too
>highly.

GURPS 4e Characters (page 46) -- Cybernetics suggests that "Some
implants may qualify for the Temporary Disadvantage limitation (p.
115); suitable temporary disadvantages include Electrical (p. 134) and
Maintenance (p. 143). These apply /to the implant/, not to your
overall capabilities."

Electrical is -20 points, so I assume that becomes -20% when used as a
Temporary Disadvantage.

-- M.J.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 18:49:19 -0500, Rob Kelk <robkelk@deadspam.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 00:36:59 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David
>Johnston) wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 19:09:41 -0500, Rob Kelk <robkelk@deadspam.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 18:55:44 -0500, Red Beard <Akahige@HotPOP.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 23:44:33 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David
>>>>Johnston) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>So in what sense is he "normally" blind? Can he take his eyes out?
>>>>>Does he? Do his optics require regular maintenance from a certified
>>>>>professional? Because you know if all he has is cybereyes that are no
>>>>>more fragile than regular eyes, then just he just plain isn't blind.
>>>>
>>>>His optics are part of a helmet that can be unstrapped and removed.
>>>>They may also be vulnerable to electricity. If any maintenance is
>>>>involved, it is negligible and probably performed by the owner.
>>>
>>>Is there any reason for the character to _not_ remove the helmet?
>>
>>One reason is obvious. I don't know if you ever tried to sleep in a
>>motorcycle helmet but...
>
>Oh, right... But one doesn't usually look at things when asleep, so I
>think we can ignore this case.
>

Unless of course he is ever attacked while in bed.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 22:19:06 -0500, Red Beard <Akahige@HotPOP.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 23:47:45 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David
>Johnston) wrote:
>
>>>Gadget Limitations (-50% total)...
>>> Temporary Disadvantage (Electrical), -20%
>>
>>What is that? Whatever it is, it sounds like you've valued it too
>>highly.
>
>GURPS 4e Characters (page 46) -- Cybernetics suggests that "Some
>implants may qualify for the Temporary Disadvantage limitation (p.
>115); suitable temporary disadvantages include Electrical (p. 134) and
>Maintenance (p. 143). These apply /to the implant/, not to your
>overall capabilities."
>
>Electrical is -20 points, so I assume that becomes -20% when used as a
>Temporary Disadvantage.

No. That would be more like a -10%. Compare to power malfunction
limitations like "mana based" or "telepathic". Unless of course he
is actually knocked unconscious when hit by electricity, which is what
Electrical is.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

Rob Kelk wrote:

>Oh, right... But one doesn't usually look at things when asleep, so I
>think we can ignore this case.
>
Unless, of course, the hemlet accidentally gets moved at night, or the character forgot just where he put it or some such thing. Whoops, can't see, can't find it!

Luke
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 03:45:31 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David
Johnston) wrote:

>>Electrical is -20 points, so I assume that becomes -20% when used as a
>>Temporary Disadvantage.
>
>No. That would be more like a -10%. Compare to power malfunction
>limitations like "mana based" or "telepathic". Unless of course he
>is actually knocked unconscious when hit by electricity, which is what
>Electrical is.

Cybernetics (p. 46) specifically states that the Temporary
Disadvantages like Electrical and Maintenance apply to the implants
rather than the entire character. Though I think I understand what
you're saying, until they make a 4e Ultra-Tech book explaining exactly
how the Cybernetics and Electrical 'vantages interact (or SJG makes an
official statement on the subject), I only feel comfortable following
the examples given, and they say 20.

Oh, and I have another question... Does the item's DR, as listed
under the Breakable gadget limitation, have to be purchased? In other
words, do I have to buy DR 5 (limited to skull) for the optics helmet?

-- Matt Jozwiak
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.gurps (More info?)

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 12:50:54 -0500, Red Beard <Akahige@HotPOP.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 03:45:31 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David
>Johnston) wrote:
>
>>>Electrical is -20 points, so I assume that becomes -20% when used as a
>>>Temporary Disadvantage.
>>
>>No. That would be more like a -10%. Compare to power malfunction
>>limitations like "mana based" or "telepathic". Unless of course he
>>is actually knocked unconscious when hit by electricity, which is what
>>Electrical is.
>
>Cybernetics (p. 46) specifically states that the Temporary
>Disadvantages like Electrical and Maintenance apply to the implants
>rather than the entire character.

He doesn't have implants. He has a magic helmet. But yeah you were
doing that bit right the first time. You subtract the 20 points for
"Electrical" from the total points that the helmet is worth before
applying the gadget percentage.

Though I think I understand what
>you're saying, until they make a 4e Ultra-Tech book explaining exactly
>how the Cybernetics and Electrical 'vantages interact (or SJG makes an
>official statement on the subject), I only feel comfortable following
>the examples given, and they say 20.
>
>Oh, and I have another question... Does the item's DR, as listed
>under the Breakable gadget limitation, have to be purchased? In other
>words, do I have to buy DR 5 (limited to skull) for the optics helmet?

If the helmet is no more protective than a mundane helmet then you can
buy it with money or with Signature Gear and then use points to add
the Advantages to it. If it has more DR than any mundane equipment in
the game or you don't want to mess around with money, then you buy all
the DR directly with points.
 
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