Moar guns ... we need moar guns

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
I should also mention that I did some AR tactical training for defense. It was fun.. surpising how many people miss a target at 50 yards while standing and having only one second to shoot at it.
The last thing you want to worry about is having to reload or cycle a round when someone is coming at you.

Did you know that when under pressure your accuracy drops 8 times? If you shoot a 6" spread at 21 feet under no pressure, your spread will be around 4 feet at 21 feet? Meaning you'll likely miss more than you would hit someone coming at you while under pressure.

Remember the LAPD shooting at the guys with machine guns? Look at how many rounds the police shot and missed. They were under pressure, they couldn't hit the people even at 20 feet and trained. This is a reason for keeping semi-auto firearms and revolvers in the hands of innocent people and those in need of defense.
 
Hey Rey,
I find it odd that Australia's homicides by gun pretty much remain nearly the same after the gun ban. It dropped what, 20%? 5 people a year less than prior to the gun ban...

In fact, it looks like the murder rate was the on the decline long before guns were even banned. Also, the murder rate has pretty much maintained the same rate, with or without guns. Interesting stats buddy. :)
 
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-12-16/ban-on-30-round-gun-magazines-in-connecticut-died-after-pressure#p2

Michael Fifer, Ruger’s president and chief executive officer, told the committee that high-capacity magazines are needed for self defense.

A third of aggravated assault and robbery victims were attacked by multiple offenders, he said. High-capacity magazines provided more protection to citizens prone to miss their intended target in stressful situations, he said.

“The regulation of magazine capacity will not deter crime, but will instead put law-abiding citizens at risk of harm,” Fifer wrote in a letter to committee members. “The bill, if enacted, also would expose law-abiding citizens to criminal prosecution for unintentionally possessing prohibited magazines -- magazines that were legally acquired and that are largely the norm in new firearms manufacturing.”
Click to expand...
 
Let's add some perspective to this thread...

Chinese officials say man stabbed 23 children.
Min Yongjun is suspected of going into an elderly woman’s house Friday, 12/14, morning and stabbing her with a kitchen knife. He then allegedly went to a nearby elementary school in Chenpeng village in Guangshan county and injured the 23 children before being stopped by teachers and police.
Click to expand...

Evil will find a way to carry out its will regardless of the tools evil uses. If you blame the gun or blame the knife, the man is excused from the evil he committed.

China is not calling for a ban on knives, or restricting the size, blade type, or even requiring a permit for people to own a knife.

23 children stabbed in China. 20 children shot in Newtown. What do the killers have in common; they were both mentally unstable.




 
What if that kid took a machete to that school and hacked the kids part while locking them in the classroom? Would it be able machetes or how disturbed the kid it?

How quickly we look to blame something else besides the person.. that guy was pure evil and the mental health system failed. The mother wasn't responsible.

As for gun control, I'm a firm believer that the US Gov't should furnish everyone with a small safe to lock their firearms up. That is proper gun control. It is the responsibility of the owners to ensure only the right people have access to the safe.
 
Watching you guys get worked up over the gun debate is kind of funny.

@Chunky- A few things people forget about the kid stabbing guy in China only 7 kids were admitted to the hospital and none of them with serious injuries. I imagine it would have been a different story if he had a gun. So again one person killed in that attack in a different location (i think he killed his wife or neighbor). Thats because its a lot harder to stab someone to death than the movies make it seem, besides if the shooter had used a knife the adults could have overpowered him add a gun into the mix and you have 27 dead. Also FYI 20 kids were stabbed to death in similar scenarios in China in 2010. So we beat that record in one day......

@Riser - High capacity magazines are necessary for self defense? So.... The aurora shooter probably had 100 round magazines for his AR15 for when he is jogging and 30+ guys jump him? I wonder what the stats are on how frequently high capacity mags are used in murders.

So... Can I own a grenade launcher? If I cant then why not? I enjoy shooting it, and you never know when a group of armed thugs is going to invade my prepper compound.


Tell me again how much safer the shooters Mom was with all those guns in her house?

 
Saying that "only 7 were admitted to the hospital" is a sick equivocation to promote an anti-gun message.

I can't ehlp but notice that your responses are about WHAT the maniac used to injure the children rather than focusing in on the underlying mental health issues that CAUSED him to act. WHO CARES what was used to hurt the children. You are focusing in on the wrong thing. The problem is not guns, or knives, or bombs, or sharpened screwdrivers...the issue here is the guy in China and the guy in Newtown were both mentally ill and unstable. What they used is inconsequential to the fact that they were going to hurt people.

These mass shootings/stabbings are NOT a gun/knife issues, it is a societal and mental health issue!

Please do not turn this tragedy into a debate about guns or gun laws. That is a distraction from the fact that the perpetrators in these instances were both mentally ill.
 


Did you see the kid? If he came at me with a machete I would laugh at him. The teachers would of been able to fight back at least.
 
Well hopefully with Universal healthcare being implemented people can get the help they need :sarcastic: .

So we cant talk about gun laws after a mass killing where the principal weapon used was a gun? That does not make sense, no one is taking your precious guns away, just talking about how to best keep people from killing kids using high powered rifles.

A gun serves no purpose other than killing people, I dont see why its so crazy to ask why we need all these high powered guns for civilians.

A screw driver serves a purpose, a knife serves a purpose, gun only had one use. I agree with the gun problem being societal, we have been at war for a decade and glorify people who shoot for a living. Gun culture is hot, and its a great way to sell sh*t to people. You think the NRA or gun lobby really cares about gun laws or safety? Their only job is to sell you guns and conservatives fall for it every time.

So tell me again why I cant own a grenade launcher? What if some thugs are just around a corner and my trusty AR15 cant reach them, I clearly need a grenade launcher to protect myself, can I own one?
 


Yeah? Would a six year old be laughing too?
 


Dumbass quote of the day and this is why:

Democrat's pushed HIPAA and it was passed. The push was to allow teenagers, 16 years and older, to be on birth control without their parents having access to their healthcare records. So you have a parent with a 16 year old kid who no longer has access to their child's healthcare records. Great for HIPAA, parents have to ask their own children about their health issues because they don't have legal access to them.

Enter the mental health debate. HIPAA protects menta health patients ages 16 and older from parents and others from seeing their health issues unless said person grants access to see those records. The issue is a 16 year old could be diagnosed with a mental health issue but after age 16, parents don't necessarily get to know this if their child doesn't want it known. While the HIPAA law enacted one benefit for the progressives, the short sightedness of the program failed to understand the full impact of the law.

Because of HIPAA mental health issues are not going to be public knowledge and presentable on a background check when purchasing a firearm or anything else unless ruled incompetent by a doctor. This means people with mental health issues do not need to tell anyone, nor can anyone look it up, and they are legally allowed to purchase a firearm.

Changes to HIPAA should be made to allow better help to mental health people instead of cloaking the issue behind a wall of political agendas.

As far as gun control, I'm really not against a high capacity magazine ban. Though I don't believe a ban is necessary. I would rather argue that anything over 10 rounds has a tax stamp associated with it, say $20 per magazine, doubling the cost of most 10-30 round magazines. A 10 round polymer magazine costs about $1.50 less than a 20 or 30 round polymer magazine. Making your own high capacity magazine with a few cheap tools from Harbor Freight really isn't that difficult. In fact, for the purpose of mass murder I would argue it is cheaper to make your own high capacity magazine than buying them.

Regarding the the jogging with a 100 round magazine, that magazine actually saved a lot of lives in the Aurora Theater shooting. Those magazines need a break in period and some additional care to function properly. Since he didn't maintain that magazine properly, it quickly jammed and took the AR-15 out of the murder, therefore we can assume at least one life was saved between not using that firearm and the time it took for him to switch to another weapon.
A 100 round magazine is really not something to carry around either. It is fairly heavy and would really be more useful for mounted weapons and/or bipods firing from a set position. I personally have no use for the 100 round magazine but I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who have some use for them.

Again, I'm not against a ban or a tax stamp on higher capacity magazines. Simply put, swapping out multiple 10 round magazines in any weapon isn't a big deal. It seriously takes less than a second to do. About the same time it takes to fire off a shot, aim, and shoot again. The 30 round is mainly for convenience and equivilent to what the military uses. This keeps the industry from having to produce magazines where the demand is not present.

I actually went on a hunt yesterday to try to find a 5 or 10 round polymer magazine for an AR-15. At best I was able to find a 20 round magazine online. At my local store I found 2 10 round magazines. The black magazine was $19.95 and the tan magazine was $15.95. $4 increase in price simply because it was black. Sitting next to those was a 30 round magazine with a clear window for $22. As a budget shopper, the 30 round magazine is the best choice. I don't have to buy 3 magazines at $45-$60, I can buy one at $22. If I go out shooting and punching paper, I don't have to carry as many magazines, etc. Either way, more or less capacity in a magazine will not change the carnage of a killer. You're simply putting a financial burden on a guy who is going to kill himself at the end of the day. Instead of carrying 3 30 round magazines, he carries in more smaller magazines which can probably fit into my pants pocket and coat pocket much better than a 30 round magazine.
 
Someone who kills in cold blood has a mental health issue.

Do we need to be talking about banning guns and accessories, or should we actually address the issue of mental health?

The Arizona shooting, the Aurora Shooting, the CT shooting, the Alabama shooting, and the Oregon shootings all in the last week... all of them have mental health issues. Maybe it is time to address that.

I'm also all for having everyone take a firearm safety course before purchasing their first firearm. I'm also for having that information stamped on ones' driver's license so when they go to purchase a firearm it can be noted.
 
Okay, since this is about mental state and guns, can I throw in some controversy:

I have ASD. Technically that is a grounds for automatic termination of a gun permit because I am a threat to 'national safety'. Let us say I am at college and I am being harassed buy a bunch of college jocks and athletes. They all threaten to kill me and beat the crap out of me and that next time they see me, my lead levels in my body will rise exponentially,( never knew jocks had such big vocabulary?) Being scared for my life I go to police, both college and local. They can do nothing about the issue because no crime has been committed. so, I apply myself to a self-defense system. I go out and get a permit to won a concealed weapon and notify the school. They are fine with it. I get the permit, and apply, take the test, but lie about my ASD. The have the legal rights to contact my family and verify if all my info is correct. Well, I have a medical history and cannot apply for a permit for a gun, ergo, no gun no protection.

Next day I am famous for being on national news. I am happy being a corpse in a cadaver bod at the local coroners office. Life is great.

So tell me, just because I have a medical condition I am not fit for owing a gun and am therefor not allowed to defend myself in case of a potential assault on my body? Just to tell you, no medication or special treatment are necessary for my condition.
 


No but the six year old would of stood a chance to avoid the guy until an adult could do something and maybe still be alive instead of being gunned down in school.
 


Who decides how dangerous a medical condition is? That would require a trained medical person to determine. Now, if you noted what I said, if a trained person declared the person incompetent to own a firearm, then they would get denied. Everything else is gray.
 
"The main area where the U.S. exceeds the firearm violence of other nations is in comparison to other affluent nations. Using the U.N. data, European nations -- even former eastern bloc countries -- typically have rates well below 1 per 100,000, or far less than one-third the frequency seen in the U.S. The pattern is similar in other advanced industrialized nations, such as Canada, Taiwan, Japan, Australia and New Zealand.

One study published in 2011 confirms this finding. The study, published in the Journal of Trauma -- Injury Infection & Critical Care, found that firearm homicide rates were 19.5 times higher in the U.S. than in 23 other "high income" countries studied, using 2003 data. Rates for other types of gun deaths were also higher in the U.S., but by somewhat smaller margins: 5.8 times higher for firearm suicides (even though overall suicide rates were 30 percent lower in the U.S.) and 5.2 times higher for unintentional firearm deaths."

So the U.S.A is not quite as bad as third world countries. Something to be proud of.
 


In a locked room with 20 kids in there. 10 minutes is a long time and it took longer for the police to respond. By the time the 911 call was even made, he was already locked in the classroom doing his evil. By the way, the killer was an adult.
 
You say that guns are the issue, not the violent tendacies of the people raised in our society? Typical.

What I see is a Nation of people who want to place blame on anything but themselves. We blame everything on something else, never themselves.

You know what? We have plenty of people in this country who have nothing to lose and want to take everything from someone else. You don't see productive members of society shooting places up. You see non-productive mental health people shooting the place up.

Our society grants people a hell of a lot of privileges and some people take it for granted.

I would question mental health state of people in the US against the rate of people in other developed countries.
 
Of course its the culture in America. We glorify gun violence and associate guns with masculinity. Duh! I dont think anyone here has argued that isnt a big part of the problem.

Im sure some of you guys are fans of westerns, do you remember what people would do when they went into town? They would check their guns with the sheriff. Do you remember what led to the shootout at the OK Coral? People refused to have their guns checked.

If you needed a posse to go deal with a problem you would get men and go to the armory to arm themselves, its not like every person had guns on them all the time.

So its interesting the in the 1850's you couldn't bring a gun into town and now the wackos are yelling for guns to be in schools.
 
It was also called the Wild West because law had not made it that far. It was only a few towns that had issues that did that ban anyhow. They had roaming groups of people.. and that's why some towns had guns checked. It wasn't because guns were banned period, it was because law enforcement and law wasn't there.

Glad we agree it is the culture in America. I find it interestin that Hollywood, full of progressives, are the ones posting to ban guns and all that.. while they make movies glorifying guns, violence, and death.. Hypocrits at all? They're getting rich off it and then want them banned as well? That's a mixed signal.
 
Yeah, when they talk about the gun crime, I think of places like Chicago where they have very strict gun laws in the city and State, yet murder rates by firearm are very high. Oh, DC as well.. which isn't as strict as it was but they keep killing themselves off.

Get whitey. :)
 

So, you are telling me that if they see me as unfit, that I have no right to protect myself all due to a medical condition?
 
Medical condition.. insane, eh. If found to be mentally unstable and prone to act out violence, I would say absolutely not allowed to own or buy a gun. There are other options out there aside from firearms, such as tazers, pepper spray, and nailbats. 😀
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom