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In article <7Assc.614$PL7.551@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>,
"John Richards" <supportdesk70-NO-SPAM@NO.SPAM.sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> "Røbert M" <rmarkoff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:rmarkoff-02766A.14371824052004@news5.west.earthlink.net...
> > In article <lHrsc.601$PL7.456@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>,
> > "John Richards" <supportdesk70-NO-SPAM@NO.SPAM.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Well then you've lost respect for the majority of Americans who still
> >> support the Iraq war.
> >
> > Duh, the last CNN/Time magazine poll said:
> >
> > "And 56 percent of those polled say the war is not worth U.S. lives and
> > other costs."
> >
> > http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/05/14/bush.kerry/index.html
> > also:
> >
> > "Sen. John Kerry, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee. He
> > wins the support of 51 percent of likely voters, compared to 46 percent
> > for Bush. "
> >
> >
> > YOU CAN NO LONGER CORRECTLY CLAIM A MAJORITY SUPPORT THE WAR.
>
> Please don't shout, it's not polite.
> Results of polls depend greatly on how you phrase the question, and timing.


NICE TRY. YOU LOSE. A MAJORITY OF AMERICANS NO LONGER SUPPORT BUSH and
THE WAR.


I heard EXACTLY the same argument from someone who wanted to bet me how
Dole was going to beat Clinton.

 

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"Røbert M" <rmarkoff@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:rmarkoff-02766A.14371824052004@news5.west.earthlink.net...
> In article <lHrsc.601$PL7.456@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>,
> "John Richards" <supportdesk70-NO-SPAM@NO.SPAM.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> Well then you've lost respect for the majority of Americans who still
>> support the Iraq war.
>
> Duh, the last CNN/Time magazine poll said:
>
> "And 56 percent of those polled say the war is not worth U.S. lives and
> other costs."

Well, duh, would you have felt better if I had said it slightly different:
"then you've lost respect for 44% of Americans who still support the Iraq war."
The exact percentage makes no difference with regard to the point I was
making to Steven Sobol about not losing respect for someone who happens
to have a different opinion about the Iraq war.

--

John Richards

 

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"Røbert M" <rmarkoff@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:rmarkoff-26F759.15105324052004@news5.west.earthlink.net...
> In article <7Assc.614$PL7.551@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>,
> "John Richards" <supportdesk70-NO-SPAM@NO.SPAM.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> "Røbert M" <rmarkoff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:rmarkoff-02766A.14371824052004@news5.west.earthlink.net...
>> > In article <lHrsc.601$PL7.456@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>,
>> > "John Richards" <supportdesk70-NO-SPAM@NO.SPAM.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Well then you've lost respect for the majority of Americans who still
>> >> support the Iraq war.
>> >
>> > Duh, the last CNN/Time magazine poll said:
>> >
>> > "And 56 percent of those polled say the war is not worth U.S. lives and
>> > other costs."
>> >
>> > http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/05/14/bush.kerry/index.html
>> > also:
>> >
>> > "Sen. John Kerry, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee. He
>> > wins the support of 51 percent of likely voters, compared to 46 percent
>> > for Bush. "
>> >
>> >
>> > YOU CAN NO LONGER CORRECTLY CLAIM A MAJORITY SUPPORT THE WAR.
>>
>> Please don't shout, it's not polite.
>> Results of polls depend greatly on how you phrase the question, and timing.
>
>
> NICE TRY. YOU LOSE. A MAJORITY OF AMERICANS NO LONGER SUPPORT BUSH and
> THE WAR.

Actually, *you* lose for snipping out and failing to address the bulk of my response.
Never mind, I'll let myself be judged by our greater audience which thankfully
has greater powers of logical deduction.

--

John Richards

 

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In article <QRssc.691$PL7.322@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>,
"John Richards" <supportdesk70-NO-SPAM@NO.SPAM.sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> "Røbert M" <rmarkoff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:rmarkoff-02766A.14371824052004@news5.west.earthlink.net...
> > In article <lHrsc.601$PL7.456@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>,
> > "John Richards" <supportdesk70-NO-SPAM@NO.SPAM.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Well then you've lost respect for the majority of Americans who still
> >> support the Iraq war.
> >
> > Duh, the last CNN/Time magazine poll said:
> >
> > "And 56 percent of those polled say the war is not worth U.S. lives and
> > other costs."
>


If it makes you feel better, a differently worded MSNBC/Newsweek news
poll gave Bush even worse results.

And Bushes last attempt at selling Iraq policy (basically going with
what Kerry has suggested for almost a year) wont even be carried by the
Networks tonight.

 

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Scott Stephenson <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote:
>> R?bert M <rmarkoff@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> Fact is, unlike their opponents, US soldiers do not knowingly target
>> >> non-combatants. But, as in any war, mistakes in military intelligence
> do
>> >> happen.
>> >
>> > But such attacks destroy our credibility, and insisting it wasnt a
>> > wedding makes it worse.
>>
>> Stop the presses: I agree with Phillipe.
>>
>> --
>
> But wouldn't you both agree that the effort of the troops on the ground to
> minimize these types of things should far outweigh the very infrequent
> instances where a mistake occurs?

I would. But if the military (rather, the heads thereof) would just finally
admit that sometimes they're wrong, without having to be beaten up in the
media before admitting it, it would make me happier. I think the DoD needs
to hire a PR firm 😛

>

--
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Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
"someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003

 

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John Richards <supportdesk70-NO-SPAM@no.spam.sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> If we pulled out unilaterally, the Sunni and Shiite Muslim factions would fight
> each other to the death, resulting in an enormous bloodbath, not to mention
> what they would do to those who cooperated with the Allies. Surrounding
> nations would notice the power vacuum. Result: Turkey would 'annex' the
> Kurdish regions of Iraq, while Iran would help itself to the eastern region
> (Iran has been supporting the more extremist Muslims). Newly emboldened
> extremists would use Iraq's oil wealth to finance export of terrorism to those
> they perceive to be their enemies (Israel and most Western nations).


Got news for you, John -- the Sunnis and Shiites have been at war with
each other for decades. And the bloodbath hasn't happened yet.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
"someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003

 

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Ron <ronf957@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Steve
>
> You think the Pentagon supports Bush? Take a close look at Powell
> think he is happy (or coming back).

I don't know about Powell. Rumsfield supports Bush.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
"someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003

 

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In article <e0a6369d.0405241445.30fb82cb@posting.google.com>,
ronf957@hotmail.com (Ron) wrote:

> John
>
> Wrong again, big difference between defense spending and military
> budget (you ought to know that)
>
> Example, the GOP howled over Clinton's gutting of the military bill
> with the line item veto. Typical bull "he is weak on defense, etc…".
> The criteria for the cuts was simple.
>
> 1) Anything the Joint chiefs, pentagon, etc.. asked for that was in
> the bill they got
> 2) Any other items tacked on by member of congress that did no have a
> sponsors name on the line item, and no sponsor would come forward to
> explain what the port was for got cut.
>
> That is not weak on defense that is strong on no pork hiding in a
> defense bill. In contrast the GOP has ignored the requests of the
> pentagon for defense items and instead spent billions on obsolete
> systems like the fleet of 1950's b-52 Newt pushed though in the 90's.
> The DNC did silly thing like JDAM missiles, Drone planes, land
> warrior, etc…. you know the weapons that helped us win the initial
> assault in Iraq.

And the leading proponent for eliminating Military Pork waste may be our
next Vice President.

John McCain.

 

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"Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message news:NsWdnUgGg_rkXC_dRVn-uQ@lmi.net...
> John Richards <supportdesk70-NO-SPAM@no.spam.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> If we pulled out unilaterally, the Sunni and Shiite Muslim factions would fight
>> each other to the death, resulting in an enormous bloodbath, not to mention
>> what they would do to those who cooperated with the Allies. Surrounding
>> nations would notice the power vacuum. Result: Turkey would 'annex' the
>> Kurdish regions of Iraq, while Iran would help itself to the eastern region
>> (Iran has been supporting the more extremist Muslims). Newly emboldened
>> extremists would use Iraq's oil wealth to finance export of terrorism to those
>> they perceive to be their enemies (Israel and most Western nations).
>
>
> Got news for you, John -- the Sunnis and Shiites have been at war with
> each other for decades. And the bloodbath hasn't happened yet.

True, but the reason the bloodbath didn't happen before was because they
were under the heavy thumb of Saddam. With all authority gone, there would
be a free-for-all.

--

John Richards

 

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Ron <ronf957@hotmail.com> wrote:
> presumable the feeling is since Iraq there now are more (terrorists)
> due to our operations.... all pissed at us. Again, saddam needed to
> go, but doing it the bush way hurts us more than it helps us

We were sticking our noses where they don't belong before this, too.

I can't say for sure than 9/11 would have happened if we weren't so hell-bent
on policing the entire world - no one can - but I am convinced there would
have been much less of a chance of it happening.

Humanitarian efforts to help other countries are great as long as (a) that's
exactly what they are and (b) we don't risk killing large numbers of our own
citizens to do so. I mean, hey, I'm a dyed-in-the-wool liberal -- not as
extreme as some other people with similar views, as I hover somewhere near
the middle, but still liberal. Social action is important to me. Just don't
be stupid about it.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
"someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003

 

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In article <e0a6369d.0405250900.2afc95c2@posting.google.com>,
ronf957@hotmail.com (Ron) wrote:

> presumable the feeling is since Iraq there now are more (terrorists)
> due to our operations.... all pissed at us. Again, saddam needed to
> go, but doing it the bush way hurts us more than it helps us

And now they're going to tear down the prison? That way
Halliburton can get the contract to build a new one.

 

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R?bert M <rmarkoff@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> And now they're going to tear down the prison? That way
> Halliburton can get the contract to build a new one.

I bet that they use Iraqi labor to build this prison.

- --

Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1

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