Question MSI MPG A850G PCIE5 or Super Flower LEADEX PLATINUM SE 1000W ?

[PunkHooligan]

MSI's PSU page says it holds up during Power Excursions:

https://imgur.com/a/eJKEiCh

View: https://imgur.com/a/eJKEiCh


Super Flower PSU has the same feature or is it some kind of protection ?

Money isnt the question here, because I can buy either PSU for the same price right now and I'd like to get SF, but I wanna hear opinions first.

Spoiler: Backstory

Sorry for grammar.

Rig:

Msi b450 tomahawk max

Ryzen 3700x+noctua dh-15s

Rtx 4070 ti super, 3 separate cables to 12vhpwr.

Psu - Seasonic X series SS-750km3 (750w gold, old model)

32 gb ram

Case - lancool 216

1 hdd drive, 2 sata ssd, 1 m2 ssd

Win 11, latest build

Just bought 2k 27" monitor. Played risk of rain 2 with my friends. Then ran benchmarks in rdr 2, cyberpunk. I had my card undervolted a bit, CP77 didnt like it, reverted to stock. Ran benchmark with path tracing, dlss, frame gen, full package. Proceeded to play. Temps of gpu and cpu were 60-67c. Gpu load 100%, cpu 40-60%. Power draw gpu ~245W, cpu ~60W. After several minutes in game pc shut down again. Next time faster, next time during intro screens. When psu's protection (allegedly) works, I cant turn on pc again, without turning off outlet for at least 15 sec. Then it turns on like nothing happened.

A little backstory. Ran ghostrunner 2 max settings on previous 1080p 24" screen with no issues.

Ive tried flashing fresh bios, changing power plan, using max performance mode in Nvidia control panel. No luck. Now pc shut it down on cp77 loading screen, in DBD lobby. I can browse internet, watch youtube, play smth very light, indie.

Probably important note. I'm from Ukraine, we have power outages often. Recently I also bought brand new Samsung 990 pro 2tb nvme ssd. Installed it. Maybe I did smth wrong but after outage, when electricity was back, pc would flash for a sec, then turn off and start only after mentioned above outlet turn off. Then playing games from my new ssd, everything freeze at one moment (it was again risk of rain 2 on stage transition), steam will show errors, when trying to verify game files integrity or opening other games, installing games on ssd. Then the disk disappear from the windows. Not showing up in bios upon restart. Thought maybe i f'd up connection or smth. Reinstalled disk, showed up again, games were still there. problem with starting pc after outage gone. The next day the same thing, same game, this time I tried to turn off pc, outlet, power back on - disk showing up. Downloaded Samsung magician, no firmware update, no errors, all good. Moved RoR2 to hdd. Didnt have issues for some time, but recently was playing Dead by Daylight, installed on SSD and the game froze on the loading screen. Couldnt alt tab or switch to another window. Was able to log off, then return to windows and the disk was visible.

Will provide any additional info if required.

 

[Aeacus]

MSI's PSU page says it holds up during Power Excursions:

Super Flower PSU has the same feature or is it some kind of protection ?

Well, you could say that it's more like protection, but in reality, it is the spec of ATX 3.0.

It means, that for a short time (100μs) PSU must be able to deliver the double of it's rated wattage. So, for 850W unit, it would be 1700W for 100μs and for 1000W unit, it would be 2000W for 100μs.
μs = microsecond.

Further reading about ATX 3.0 standard: https://hwbusters.com/psus/intel-atx-v3-0-specification-explained-briefly/

Money isnt the question here, because I can buy both PSUs for the same price right now and I'd like to get SF, but I wanna hear opinions first.

Between the two, i'd go with Super Flower unit every day of the week.

Super Flower, Seasonic and Flextronics make up the 3 best PSU OEMs in the world and their high-end PSUs are also regarded as one of the best PSUs out there.

E.g, i'm personally running Seasonic. Currently 2x PRIME TX-650 and 1x Focus PX-550, but in the past: S12II-520 and M12II-850 EVO as well.

Btw, your current Seasonic X-series is also a solid unit, albeit now quite old and would need replacement.
Fun fact: Seasonic X-series was the world's 1st 80+ Gold rated PSU.

Here's also an article listing best 1000W ATX 3.0 PSUs,
link: https://hwbusters.com/best_picks/best-atxv3-pcie5-ready-psus-picks-hardware-busters/5/

And in same article, there are actually many wattage ranges, e.g 850W units,
link: https://hwbusters.com/best_picks/best-atxv3-pcie5-ready-psus-picks-hardware-busters/4/

You do not find MSI PSUs there, since MSI PSUs aren't that good, especially compared to the industry old timers (which Seasonic and Flextronics are).
MSI does make good MoBos and GPUs though. Even i have MSI MoBos and GPUs in use (and MSI monitor too). But their PSUs aren't that great, especially when you can buy Seasonic or Super Flower unit.

Btw, to combat blackouts, i'd also look into buying an UPS.
If you want more info about UPSes and which one to buy, let me know. I'll post the info with my next reply.


Слава Україні! 🇺🇦
Greetz from Estonia! 🇪🇪

 

[PunkHooligan]

Well, you could say that it's more like protection, but in reality, it is the spec of ATX 3.0.

It means, that for a short time (100μs) PSU must be able to deliver the double of it's rated wattage. So, for 850W unit, it would be 1700W for 100μs and for 1000W unit, it would be 2000W for 100μs.
μs = microsecond.

Further reading about ATX 3.0 standard: https://hwbusters.com/psus/intel-atx-v3-0-specification-explained-briefly/


Between the two, i'd go with Super Flower unit every day of the week.

Super Flower, Seasonic and Flextronics make up the 3 best PSU OEMs in the world and their high-end PSUs are also regarded as one of the best PSUs out there.

E.g, i'm personally running Seasonic. Currently 2x PRIME TX-650 and 1x Focus PX-550, but in the past: S12II-520 and M12II-850 EVO as well.

Btw, your current Seasonic X-series is also a solid unit, albeit now quite old and would need replacement.
Fun fact: Seasonic X-series was the world's 1st 80+ Gold rated PSU.

Here's also an article listing best 1000W ATX 3.0 PSUs,
link: https://hwbusters.com/best_picks/best-atxv3-pcie5-ready-psus-picks-hardware-busters/5/

And in same article, there are actually many wattage ranges, e.g 850W units,
link: https://hwbusters.com/best_picks/best-atxv3-pcie5-ready-psus-picks-hardware-busters/4/

You do not find MSI PSUs there, since MSI PSUs aren't that good, especially compared to the industry old timers (which Seasonic and Flextronics are).
MSI does make good MoBos and GPUs though. Even i have MSI MoBos and GPUs in use (and MSI monitor too). But their PSUs aren't that great, especially when you can buy Seasonic or Super Flower unit.

Btw, to combat blackouts, i'd also look into buying an UPS.
If you want more info about UPSes and which one to buy, let me know. I'll post the info with my next reply.


Слава Україні! 🇺🇦
Greetz from Estonia! 🇪🇪

I can't thank you enough for your kind help !
Know about Seasonic and Super Flower, but didnt hear about Flextronics yet.

Previously asked regarding power excursions at several web sites and no one could explain me that it's ATX 3.0 spec. Bow before you, sir.
Also I've read the article and it was helpful.
I've got another tier list from UA site and from Reddit:

PSU Tier List rev. 17.0g - Cultists Network

PSU Tier List will help you to choose the best PSU out of hundreds of models on the market. From budget to the highest end Power Supplies.

cultists.network

Right now checking Tier List you provided and also the prices for these models.

Some time ago I've found Leadex II SF PSU. Seller used it for 4090. And I asked why to sell, if it ran perfectly. The answer was - swap to ATX 3.1 PSU.

I wanted that Super Flower leadex se platinum PSU badly but now understand that the problem may be a bit deeper. If I got this right, manufacturer website states it has 12V ATX 2.2 , which released in 2005 and there were 7 more revisions before 3.0.

I can buy it from, let's say, our version of US' Ebay. So won't be able to return it, only resell if it won't fullfill my system's requirements. Wanna choose carefully.
You recommend this PSU ? Btw, maybe it's important, my card is RTX 4070 ti super Zotac Trinity OC and has 3x8 pin ==> 12vhpwr connection.

 

[Aeacus]

Know about Seasonic and Super Flower, but didnt hear about Flextronics yet.

Flextronics is rarely known on consumer PSU market, but very well known on server PSU market. Flextronics server PSUs are one of the best in industry.
But there are few Flextronics PSUs for consumers as well. Known as Corsair AXi.

Somehow, Corsair struck the deal with Flextronics and was able to get Flextronics made PSUs for their AXi-series. Of course, after Corsair AXi-series, Flextronics haven't many any further appearances in consumer PSU market. Flextronics is sticking to their server PSU market.

and from Reddit:

PSU Tier List rev. 17.0g - Cultists Network

PSU Tier List will help you to choose the best PSU out of hundreds of models on the market. From budget to the highest end Power Supplies.

cultists.network

Right now checking Tier List you provided and also the prices for these models.

I advise against using Cultists PSU list, since that list there is biased and favoring Corsair the most, while downplaying Seasonic.

E.g asterisk [14] states that PSU either doesn't have proper review or failed some parts of the review. And due to that, Seasonic Vertex is in "speculative" position. But Corsair HXi 2022 also has the very same [14] asterisk behind it - yet, they have 0 issues on classifying it to "multi/single-rail switchable" category. If the list would be unbiased, Corsair HXi 2022 would be in the "speculative" category as well, alongside Seasonic Vertex.

Build quality wise, Seasonic Vertex is between good quality Seasonic Focus and great quality Seasonic PRIME. Also, all Vertex units have 12 years of warranty, just like all PRIME units. Oh, Focus units have 10 years of warranty (semi-modular ones, 7 years of warranty).

Less unbiased list would be the one in TH forums,
link: https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...er-list-rev-14-8-final-update-jul-21.3624094/
But it is somewhat outdated.

But the best list would be in HardwareBusters, the one i already linked to you.
HardwareBusters list is up-to-the-date and updated by Aris personally. Also, it offers several PSU options with the latest ATX 3.0/PCI-E 5.0 standard.

Some time ago I've found Leadex II SF PSU. Seller used it for 4090. And I asked why to sell, if it ran perfectly. The answer was - swap to ATX 3.1 PSU.

RTX 4090 owners are swimming in money (how else they can afford $/€2000+ GPU) and for them, junking perfectly fine PSU, just to get the latest/best, is normal. I, personally, don't like to deal with any RTX 4090 owner.

If I got this right, manufacturer website states it has 12V ATX 2.2 , which released in 2005 and there were 7 more revisions before 3.0.

This is true. Since ATX 2.2, there have been 8 revisions (if you include ATX 3.0 as well).

I can buy it from, let's say, our version of US' Ebay. So won't be able to return it, only resell if it won't fullfill my system's requirements. Wanna choose carefully.
You recommend this PSU ?

Since PSU powers everything, it is the most important component inside the PC. Thus, never cheap out on PSU and never buy used PSU either.

With used PSUs, there is no telling what kind of abuse the PSU has seen and if it even works according to ATX PSU standard. Nor is there any warranty with the PSU as well. So, it would be FAR better idea to buy brand new PSU, especially since good/great quality PSUs come with a LONG warranty. E.g Super Flower Leadex Platinum SE units or Seasonic Focus units, have 10 years of warranty. While Seasonic Vertex and Seasonic PRIME have 12 years of warranty.

So, IF given that the Super Flower unit you're looking at, is brand new, then we can talk.
Which Super Flower unit you're looking at? You talked about Leadex II and Platinum SE.

Btw, maybe it's important, my card is RTX 4070 ti super Zotac Trinity OC and has 3x8 pin ==> 12vhpwr connection.

For RTX 4070 Ti, 750W PSU is enough. You don't have to go with 1000W (1kW) unit.

 

[PunkHooligan]

Flextronics is rarely known on consumer PSU market, but very well known on server PSU market. Flextronics server PSUs are one of the best in industry.
But there are few Flextronics PSUs for consumers as well. Known as Corsair AXi.

Somehow, Corsair struck the deal with Flextronics and was able to get Flextronics made PSUs for their AXi-series. Of course, after Corsair AXi-series, Flextronics haven't many any further appearances in consumer PSU market. Flextronics is sticking to their server PSU market.


I advise against using Cultists PSU list, since that list there is biased and favoring Corsair the most, while downplaying Seasonic.

E.g asterisk [14] states that PSU either doesn't have proper review or failed some parts of the review. And due to that, Seasonic Vertex is in "speculative" position. But Corsair HXi 2022 also has the very same [14] asterisk behind it - yet, they have 0 issues on classifying it to "multi/single-rail switchable" category. If the list would be unbiased, Corsair HXi 2022 would be in the "speculative" category as well, alongside Seasonic Vertex.

Build quality wise, Seasonic Vertex is between good quality Seasonic Focus and great quality Seasonic PRIME. Also, all Vertex units have 12 years of warranty, just like all PRIME units. Oh, Focus units have 10 years of warranty (semi-modular ones, 7 years of warranty).

Less unbiased list would be the one in TH forums,
link: https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...er-list-rev-14-8-final-update-jul-21.3624094/
But it is somewhat outdated.

But the best list would be in HardwareBusters, the one i already linked to you.
HardwareBusters list is up-to-the-date and updated by Aris personally. Also, it offers several PSU options with the latest ATX 3.0/PCI-E 5.0 standard.


RTX 4090 owners are swimming in money (how else they can afford $/€2000+ GPU) and for them, junking perfectly fine PSU, just to get the latest/best, is normal. I, personally, don't like to deal with any RTX 4090 owner.


This is true. Since ATX 2.2, there have been 8 revisions (if you include ATX 3.0 as well).


Since PSU powers everything, it is the most important component inside the PC. Thus, never cheap out on PSU and never buy used PSU either.

With used PSUs, there is no telling what kind of abuse the PSU has seen and if it even works according to ATX PSU standard. Nor is there any warranty with the PSU as well. So, it would be FAR better idea to buy brand new PSU, especially since good/great quality PSUs come with a LONG warranty. E.g Super Flower Leadex Platinum SE units or Seasonic Focus units, have 10 years of warranty. While Seasonic Vertex and Seasonic PRIME have 12 years of warranty.

So, IF given that the Super Flower unit you're looking at, is brand new, then we can talk.
Which Super Flower unit you're looking at? You talked about Leadex II and Platinum SE.


For RTX 4070 Ti, 750W PSU is enough. You don't have to go with 1000W (1kW) unit.

We're talking about brand new SF Leadex Platinum SE and the seller has either 1000 or 1200W models only.
It won't change anything I guess, but the card is TI Super

I've came across this topic (solution at the bottom post, 1st page). So the problem was with CPU power settings in BIOS ? Can my cheap motherboard be an issue ? Or maybe smth else in my system ?

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/3080-ti-transient-spikes-triggering-ocp-on-a-1000w-psu.18979497/

And several others. I can't find a link, but one user said his card was tripping SF PSU OCP =/

I'm reaaaly nervous about upcoming purchase.
Am planning to update to AM5 and smth like 7800x3D down the road but dont have funds for such purchase right now.

I don't understand why I was able to easily run heavy in game benchmarks and at the same day PC would shut down while just trying to get into the same game. I seriously can't load into CP77 right now.

From what I gather from the internet ATX 3.0 PCIE 5.0 isnt a must for current gen. Wanted to ask regarding Transient Spikes/Power Excursion. That was always a thing and ATX 3.0 feature is just a marketing, because manufacturers had to deal with it earlier in any case ?

Sorry for the amount of questions and my nerve. Just a "bit" overwhelmed.
So yeah, back to the question. Will SF Leadex Platinum SE be a good purchase for near future and will satisfy all needs my current and future (am5) system may have or should I look into ATX 3.0 PSU right away ?

 

[PunkHooligan]

I just found I can snatch Super Flower Leadex VII XG 850W GOLD for just a dime more.

 

[Aeacus]

We're talking about brand new SF Leadex Platinum SE and the seller has either 1000 or 1200W models only.

1kW Platinum SE would do fine.

While Platinum SE is using older ATX standard, 2.2, released way back in 2005, the PSU itself is actually much newer. Platinum SE was 1st released in Q1 2020.

That's considered "new platform" in PSU world. E.g for comparison, my oldest PRIME unit [SSR-650TD] was released back in 2015 and i bought it in 2016. So, mine is already 8 years old, but still going strong (it has 12 years of warranty).

It won't change anything I guess, but the card is TI Super

RTX 4070 Ti Super has same 285W TDP as RTX 4070 Ti. So, 750W unit does fine. But higher capacity won't hurt either.

I've came across this topic (solution at the bottom post, 1st page). So the problem was with CPU power settings in BIOS ? Can my cheap motherboard be an issue ? Or maybe smth else in my system ?
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/3080-ti-transient-spikes-triggering-ocp-on-a-1000w-psu.18979497/ And several others. I can't find a link, but one user said his card was tripping SF PSU OCP =/

Since you're also running Ryzen chip, on same MSI B450 chipset MoBo (albeit you have different model MoBo), it wouldn't hurt to try to put negative PBO offset in BIOS. It may fix the issue. If it does, then you know who the culprit is.

And several others. I can't find a link, but one user said his card was tripping SF PSU OCP =/

While not unheard of, one needs to be specific, rather than generalizing it.

Super Flower makes many PSU models. So, which PSU exactly was used in the system. Also, what capacity unit. Moreover, what GPU was used.

RTX 20-series and especially RTX 30-series GPUs are notorious in GPU transient power spikes, where GPU power draw can spike 2 - 2.5 times of GPU TDP.
So, if someone is running e.g RTX 3090 and has paired it with 750W PSU, GPU transient power spikes will trip the PSU, regardless if it is Super Flower, Seasonic or Corsair. RTX 3090, which is 350W GPU, can spike to ~660W. Add the rest of the system to it at 200W (or at 300W when running Core i9/Ryzen 9), and you'll end up with ~860W-960W, which clearly is WAY too much for ANY 750W unit to handle.

Further info about GPU transient power spikes:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnRyyCsuHFQ

I don't understand why I was able to easily run heavy in game benchmarks and at the same day PC would shut down while just trying to get into the same game. I seriously can't load into CP77 right now.

Difficult to tell what issue your PC has. Could be PSU, could be CPU. But since Seasonic X-series has seen it's years, i'd replace it regardless. As for CPU, i said above what you could try.

From what I gather from the internet ATX 3.0 PCIE 5.0 isnt a must for current gen.

This is true.

Wanted to ask regarding Transient Spikes/Power Excursion. That was always a thing and ATX 3.0 feature is just a marketing, because manufacturers had to deal with it earlier in any case ?

Look the Steve Burke's (GamersNexus) video i linked above. It tells A LOT about GPU transient power spikes.
But the short of it is: that GPU transient power spikes 1st started to appear in GTX 10-series (Pascal) and as new generations were released, it got worse. RTX 20-series has even higher GPU transient power spikes. It reached it's peak with RTX 30-series GPUs, where you had to use easy 200-300W higher capacity PSU than otherwise suggested, just to soak up the GPU transient power spikes. But with RTX 40-series, the peak of transient power spikes has come down. With RTX 40-series, it is more like 1 - 1.5 times of GPU TDP.

In GamersNexus review of RTX 4090, at 10:20, there is talk of RTX 40-series GPU transient power spikes;

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9vC9NBL8zo


Since GPU transient spikes are the issue, ATX 3.0 standard was released, which among other things, also caters to the GPU transient power spikes. "Power excursion" is fancier word for transient power spike, but as i said above, ATX 3.0 standard specifies that PSU must be able to sustain two times it's max rated wattage for short period of time.

So, you could either go a bit higher wattage wise with ATX 2.2/2.5 PSU, to create the wattage buffer for transient power spikes, OR go with ATX 3.0/3.1 PSU which is closer to the suggested PSU wattage.

Example: RTX 3090 (350W TDP), either 1000W ATX2.2/2.5 PSU or 850W ATX 3.0/3.1 PSU.
Suggested PSU by Nvidia for RTX 3090 is 750W unit.
But i like to suggest a bit beefier unit than manufacturer suggested, to factor in CPU/GPU OC, that some people may do.

Sorry for the amount of questions and my nerve. Just a "bit" overwhelmed.

PSU world (or power delivery in general) is complex and many think little, if any, about PSUs. So, it can be overwhelming when starting to research it.

So yeah, back to the question. Will SF Leadex Platinum SE be a good purchase for near future and will satisfy all needs my current and future (am5) system may have or should I look into ATX 3.0 PSU right away ?

I just found I can snatch Super Flower Leadex VII XG 850W for just a dime more.

In a choice between Platinum SE 1000W and VII XG 850W, wattage wise, you'd be good either way. Platinum SE has plenty of wattage buffer and VII XG has ATX 3.1.

VII XG would give you 12V-2x6 power cable, directly from PSU to the GPU, so, you don't have to use power adapter to power your GPU. Makes build look more clean and less cable clutter. Since currently, you need to use 2x 8-pin PCI-E power cables to power the 12VHPWR adapter to your GPU, right?

But you'd loose a bit on efficiency wise.
Platinum SE is 80+ Platinum
VII XG is 80+ Gold
(And my PRIME TX-650 is 80+ Titanium )

VII XG is newer than Platinum SE, released in Q1 2024 (Platinum SE was released Q1 2020).

So, overall, VII XG would be better choice.

 

[PunkHooligan]

1kW Platinum SE would do fine.

While Platinum SE is using older ATX standard, 2.2, released way back in 2005, the PSU itself is actually much newer. Platinum SE was 1st released in Q1 2020.

That's considered "new platform" in PSU world. E.g for comparison, my oldest PRIME unit [SSR-650TD] was released back in 2015 and i bought it in 2016. So, mine is already 8 years old, but still going strong (it has 12 years of warranty).


RTX 4070 Ti Super has same 285W TDP as RTX 4070 Ti. So, 750W unit does fine. But higher capacity won't hurt either.


Since you're also running Ryzen chip, on same MSI B450 chipset MoBo (albeit you have different model MoBo), it wouldn't hurt to try to put negative PBO offset in BIOS. It may fix the issue. If it does, then you know who the culprit is.


While not unheard of, one needs to be specific, rather than generalizing it.

Super Flower makes many PSU models. So, which PSU exactly was used in the system. Also, what capacity unit. Moreover, what GPU was used.

RTX 20-series and especially RTX 30-series GPUs are notorious in GPU transient power spikes, where GPU power draw can spike 2 - 2.5 times of GPU TDP.
So, if someone is running e.g RTX 3090 and has paired it with 750W PSU, GPU transient power spikes will trip the PSU, regardless if it is Super Flower, Seasonic or Corsair. RTX 3090, which is 350W GPU, can spike to ~660W. Add the rest of the system to it at 200W (or at 300W when running Core i9/Ryzen 9), and you'll end up with ~860W-960W, which clearly is WAY too much for ANY 750W unit to handle.

Further info about GPU transient power spikes:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnRyyCsuHFQ



Difficult to tell what issue your PC has. Could be PSU, could be CPU. But since Seasonic X-series has seen it's years, i'd replace it regardless. As for CPU, i said above what you could try.


This is true.


Look the Steve Burke's (GamersNexus) video i linked above. It tells A LOT about GPU transient power spikes.
But the short of it is: that GPU transient power spikes 1st started to appear in GTX 10-series (Pascal) and as new generations were released, it got worse. RTX 20-series has even higher GPU transient power spikes. It reached it's peak with RTX 30-series GPUs, where you had to use easy 200-300W higher capacity PSU than otherwise suggested, just to soak up the GPU transient power spikes. But with RTX 40-series, the peak of transient power spikes has come down. With RTX 40-series, it is more like 1 - 1.5 times of GPU TDP.

In GamersNexus review of RTX 4090, at 10:20, there is talk of RTX 40-series GPU transient power spikes;

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9vC9NBL8zo


Since GPU transient spikes are the issue, ATX 3.0 standard was released, which among other things, also caters to the GPU transient power spikes. "Power excursion" is fancier word for transient power spike, but as i said above, ATX 3.0 standard specifies that PSU must be able to sustain two times it's max rated wattage for short period of time.

So, you could either go a bit higher wattage wise with ATX 2.2/2.5 PSU, to create the wattage buffer for transient power spikes, OR go with ATX 3.0/3.1 PSU which is closer to the suggested PSU wattage.

Example: RTX 3090 (350W TDP), either 1000W ATX2.2/2.5 PSU or 850W ATX 3.0/3.1 PSU.
Suggested PSU by Nvidia for RTX 3090 is 750W unit.
But i like to suggest a bit beefier unit than manufacturer suggested, to factor in CPU/GPU OC, that some people may do.


PSU world (or power delivery in general) is complex and many think little, if any, about PSUs. So, it can be overwhelming when starting to research it.



In a choice between Platinum SE 1000W and VII XG 850W, wattage wise, you'd be good either way. Platinum SE has plenty of wattage buffer and VII XG has ATX 3.1.

VII XG would give you 12V-2x6 power cable, directly from PSU to the GPU, so, you don't have to use power adapter to power your GPU. Makes build look more clean and less cable clutter. Since currently, you need to use 2x 8-pin PCI-E power cables to power the 12VHPWR adapter to your GPU, right?

But you'd loose a bit on efficiency wise.
Platinum SE is 80+ Platinum
VII XG is 80+ Gold
(And my PRIME TX-650 is 80+ Titanium )

VII XG is newer than Platinum SE, released in Q1 2024 (Platinum SE was released Q1 2020).

So, overall, VII XG would be better choice.

I've actually already checked that GN video regarding Transient Spikes.
And PBO offset is available for Zen 3 and higher if I understand correctly, while mine is Zen 2. Negative PBO offset = underclock/volt ? I'm not good at manual overclocking if there's maybe any workaround.

I wish there was an easy way to find the culprit.

That single post I linked made me doubt whole thing regarding the purchase of the new PSU. But on the other hand, if negative PBO offset could've solve the issue, then once again it's power related issue or am I wrong ?
A bit nervous about spending almost 200 usd just to see my PC shuts down again if it's not PSU related somehow.

Since currently, you need to use 2x 8-pin PCI-E power cables to power the 12VHPWR adapter to your GPU, right?

It's 3 cables. I've specified under the spoiler along with all my PC drama

 

[PunkHooligan]

My CPU voltage was at 1.45. I've set it to 1.3 and manually set multiplier to 41.5...I still expect it to shutdown but...

https://imgur.com/a/T2xZq8B

View: https://imgur.com/a/T2xZq8B

Please dont look at my vents curve. Forgot to hide it.
I just left the game running in city, cause had some home obligations and it's still fine.

EDIT: aand I guess I have "won" a coil whine lottery.
When I previously tried to undervolt GPU, PC would shut itself down under heavy load in demanding games. Lowering Power Limit will have the same result or just decrease in performance ?
EDIT2: it wasnt coil whine...the separate dust filter from front panel Lian Li forces us to buy was the reason, cleaned - all good. These 160mm fans collecting dust very fast.
Set Power Limit to 90%, got same clocks. Plus fixed the curve and got comfortable noise levels..damn..didnt think this day would end like this.

 

[Aeacus]

I wish there was an easy way to find the culprit.

With PC issues, be it software or hardware, always the hardest part is finding out the exact issue. Also it takes the most of the time. Once issue is located, fix is fast and easy, especially for hardware.

And PBO offset is available for Zen 3 and higher if I understand correctly, while mine is Zen 2.

PBO was introduced with Ryzen 3000-series CPUs. So, your chip also applies.

But on the other hand, if negative PBO offset could've solve the issue, then once again it's power related issue or am I wrong ?

Not quite.

AMD PBO essentially provides longer boost duration for the CPU.
Not letting CPU to boost as high or as long (with PBO) as it would otherwise, can make CPU itself stable. IF the normal boost level or extended duration with PBO, somehow, makes the CPU unstable.

Best would be Steve's (GamersNexus) in-depth explanation about PB, PB2 and PBO:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7NzNi1xX_4


Precision Boost (PB) and Precision Boost 2 (PB2) are the default/vanilla methodology for Ryzen CPUs boost function.
While Precision Boost Overdrive (PBO) is not considered default. Instead it can be used to extend the boost duration.

In the video, at 12:21, you can see BIOS setting for "Max CPU boost clock override" that changes the PB2 algorithm. You should be able to increase that by increments of 25 Mhz, up to +200 Mhz. Or decrease it up to -1000 Mhz (if decrease option is available).

When I previously tried to undervolt GPU, PC would shut itself down under heavy load in demanding games. Lowering Power Limit will have the same result or just decrease in performance ?

Power limit is different from undervolting.

In undervolting, you are changing the available voltage level of a GPU core.
RTX 4070 Ti Super default core frequency is from 2340 Mhz at ~835mV. As the frequency goes up, the core voltage follows to sustain said frequency. With turbo frequency of up to to 2610 Mhz at ~925mV.

In undervolting, you lower the voltage for the core on all frequencies. E.g when default voltage range for 2340 Mhz to 2610 Mhz was 835mV to 925mV, then undervolt would bring the voltage range to 825mV to 915mV (-10mV offset).

With this, and with less voltage to the vcore, GPU doesn't get that hot. But GPU may not be stable either. It could be stable in the frequency range of 2350 Mhz to 2500 Mhz but once GPU goes higher than e.g 2500 Mhz, the lowered vcore voltage isn't enough to keep the GPU stable and GPU crashes, crashing entire system.


Power limit limits the wattage GPU gets. RTX 4070 Ti Super 285W GPU (it actually can consume more, but for simplicity sake, let's say 285W is max what GPU pulls).

With no power limit, GPU is freely able to pull as much wattage it needs, up to 285W. While following the default frequency/voltage cure it has (2340 Mhz at ~835mV to 2610 Mhz at ~925mV).
But if you limit the power, e.g to 250W, GPU frequency increases until power limit is met. E.g up to 2550 Mhz at ~912mV.

GPU core will always be stable, since it gets appropriate voltage at any given frequency it runs at, but you just limit on how high the GPU can boost it's core frequency. But with undervolting, you try to starve the vcore at any given frequency, for lower temperatures.


It's complex to explain it and i'm not sure if you understood it; so, perhaps analog example makes more sense;
Cars (everyone knows cars). GPU power limit is like the speed limit on the road. If speed limit on the road is up to 90km/h, you can drive up to 90km/h, while your car consumes 10L per 100km. While without speed limit, you can drive as fast as you want, e.g 150km/h, while your car still consumes 10L per 100km.
While undervolting is like, rather than providing the car engine 10L of fuel per 100km, you limit it to 8L per 100 km. With this, you'll gain fuel efficiency but you are starving the car's engine of the fuel it needs. And that at every speed you drive at, be it 30km/h, 90km/h or 150km/h. And with this, you can actually seize up the engine. Or when it comes to GPUs, crash the GPU and PC.

 

[PunkHooligan]

With PC issues, be it software or hardware, always the hardest part is finding out the exact issue. Also it takes the most of the time. Once issue is located, fix is fast and easy, especially for hardware.


PBO was introduced with Ryzen 3000-series CPUs. So, your chip also applies.


Not quite.

AMD PBO essentially provides longer boost duration for the CPU.
Not letting CPU to boost as high or as long (with PBO) as it would otherwise, can make CPU itself stable. IF the normal boost level or extended duration with PBO, somehow, makes the CPU unstable.

Best would be Steve's (GamersNexus) in-depth explanation about PB, PB2 and PBO:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7NzNi1xX_4


Precision Boost (PB) and Precision Boost 2 (PB2) are the default/vanilla methodology for Ryzen CPUs boost function.
While Precision Boost Overdrive (PBO) is not considered default. Instead it can be used to extend the boost duration.

In the video, at 12:21, you can see BIOS setting for "Max CPU boost clock override" that changes the PB2 algorithm. You should be able to increase that by increments of 25 Mhz, up to +200 Mhz. Or decrease it up to -1000 Mhz (if decrease option is available).


Power limit is different from undervolting.

In undervolting, you are changing the available voltage level of a GPU core.
RTX 4070 Ti Super default core frequency is from 2340 Mhz at ~835mV. As the frequency goes up, the core voltage follows to sustain said frequency. With turbo frequency of up to to 2610 Mhz at ~925mV.

In undervolting, you lower the voltage for the core on all frequencies. E.g when default voltage range for 2340 Mhz to 2610 Mhz was 835mV to 925mV, then undervolt would bring the voltage range to 825mV to 915mV (-10mV offset).

With this, and with less voltage to the vcore, GPU doesn't get that hot. But GPU may not be stable either. It could be stable in the frequency range of 2350 Mhz to 2500 Mhz but once GPU goes higher than e.g 2500 Mhz, the lowered vcore voltage isn't enough to keep the GPU stable and GPU crashes, crashing entire system.


Power limit limits the wattage GPU gets. RTX 4070 Ti Super 285W GPU (it actually can consume more, but for simplicity sake, let's say 285W is max what GPU pulls).

With no power limit, GPU is freely able to pull as much wattage it needs, up to 285W. While following the default frequency/voltage cure it has (2340 Mhz at ~835mV to 2610 Mhz at ~925mV).
But if you limit the power, e.g to 250W, GPU frequency increases until power limit is met. E.g up to 2550 Mhz at ~912mV.

GPU core will always be stable, since it gets appropriate voltage at any given frequency it runs at, but you just limit on how high the GPU can boost it's core frequency. But with undervolting, you try to starve the vcore at any given frequency, for lower temperatures.


It's complex to explain it and i'm not sure if you understood it; so, perhaps analog example makes more sense;
Cars (everyone knows cars). GPU power limit is like the speed limit on the road. If speed limit on the road is up to 90km/h, you can drive up to 90km/h, while your car consumes 10L per 100km. While without speed limit, you can drive as fast as you want, e.g 150km/h, while your car still consumes 10L per 100km.
While undervolting is like, rather than providing the car engine 10L of fuel per 100km, you limit it to 8L per 100 km. With this, you'll gain fuel efficiency but you are starving the car's engine of the fuel it needs. And that at every speed you drive at, be it 30km/h, 90km/h or 150km/h. And with this, you can actually seize up the engine. Or when it comes to GPUs, crash the GPU and PC.

I bought SF Leadex Platinum SE 1000w. Small dilemma. The Power Cable.
It says 13A, 125V, plus it's for US socket.

https://imgur.com/a/BrAxrta

View: https://imgur.com/a/BrAxrta

Pretty sure my multi plug outlet supports only 10A.
The question is. Should I buy new outlet (found 16A support) and some random no name adapter (US=>EU socket) like this

https://imgur.com/a/l7n3wTv

View: https://imgur.com/a/l7n3wTv

Or just new multi plug and another cable ? One of the first several links I've opened contained user photo with burned cable so I started to consider adapter right away.

 

[Aeacus]

It says 13A, 125V, plus it's for US socket.

Pretty sure my multi plug outlet supports only 10A.

In EU, there are different kinds of sockets in use, but most common is Schuko (aka Type F/C or CEE 7/3 socket, CEE 7/4 plug). So, if you have that socket and need appropriate PSU power cord plug, best (and actually only way i'd do it), is to actually buy the PSU cable that has correct plug. Never use socket conversion adapters to power high wattage hardware. Especially don't use cheap, no-name Chinese adapters.

So, CEE 7/4 male plug in one end and IEC C13 female socket in another end would be the power cable you'd need.

Also, you do not need to replace your wall socket. 10A at 240V = 2400W. More than enough + then some to power 1000W PSU.
1000W load on 240V circuit pulls 4.1A.

 

[PunkHooligan]

In EU, there are different kinds of sockets in use, but most common is Schuko (aka Type F/C or CEE 7/3 socket, CEE 7/4 plug). So, if you have that socket and need appropriate PSU power cord plug, best (and actually only way i'd do it), is to actually buy the PSU cable that has correct plug. Never use socket conversion adapters to power high wattage hardware. Especially don't use cheap, no-name Chinese adapters.

So, CEE 7/4 male plug in one end and IEC C13 female socket in another end would be the power cable you'd need.

Also, you do not need to replace your wall socket. 10A at 240V = 2400W. More than enough + then some to power 1000W PSU.
1000W load on 240V circuit pulls 4.1A.

Once again, much appreciate your help.

CEE 7/4 male plug in one end and IEC C13 - just my regular PSU cable I'm using right now, got it. But can I use my current cable with the new PSU (cant check specs rn)? I honestly don't know if it's even original. PSU is more than 6 years with me, I didn't think it may (or may not) be important back then, when I bought it.
EDIT: I think everyone is using CEE7/7 plug here.

I wanted to buy some quality power cable, but this one thing is a bit tricky. I mean, we have good amount of different PC components, some folks bringing parts from aboard so no issues with the diversity. But simple cable...that's a trouble.
Also, does Cable's section (cross section ? Sorry, dunno the right term) is important for PSU=>outlet cable ?
=====================================
You kindly offered an info on UPS. I considered such device at one time, but saw couple reports with fried PC on UA forums. Maybe folks got something cheap or idk. Scared me quite a bit. If you'll have time and desire I would be grateful for a tips. Maybe, also brand pointers or smth.

 

[Aeacus]

But can I use my current cable with the new PSU (cant check specs rn)?

Technically, yes. But all cables age and it would be best if you'd have a new cable.

Also, does Cable's section (cross section ? Sorry, dunno the right term) is important for PSU=>outlet cable ?

This is called wire gauge (diameter of the wire).
Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_gauge

Either measured in AWG (american), SWG (british) or IEC (international).

In general, the thicker the wire - the better protection against melting. Of course, the thickness of cable itself doesn't tell that it has thick wires in it. It could be that the shielding/insulation is thick, but wire itself is thin.

E.g the power cables inside the PC are usually 18 AWG (higher the AWG/SWG, the thinner the wire). Even my CableMod custom sleeved power cables are 18 AWG,
specs: https://cablemod.com/product/cablemod-se-series-xp2-km3-cable-kit-red/

Oh, cheap PSUs may have 20 AWG wires, which isn't good (thinner the wire - easier to melt under load).

Though, the power cable from PSU to the mains is usually quite a chonker.

You kindly offered an info on UPS. I considered such device at one time, but saw couple reports with fried PC on UA forums. Maybe folks got something cheap or idk. Scared me quite a bit. If you'll have time and desire I would be grateful for a tips. Maybe, also brand pointers or smth.

In my opinion, every PC should have an UPS.

To start off; UPSes can output 3 different kinds of waveform:
1. square wave - cheapest of the three. ONLY good for robust hardware, like power generators and motors.
2. simulated sine wave (aka stepped-approximated sine wave) - mediocre price. Good for most home appliances (e.g fridge, washing machine, lights).
3. true/pure sine wave - high price. It is the same as you get out of the wall socket. ONLY waveform good for sensitive electronics, like medical equipment, TVs, PC PSUs.

So, you want to have true/pure sine wave UPS. Simulated sine wave UPS may also work, but it may not. More of that below;


When looking for an UPS, there are 2 things to look out:
1. Output waveform (square wave, simulated sine wave and true/pure sine wave)
2. Design (stand-by, line-interactive and online)

From here you can read about the differences between output waveform,
link: https://suvastika.com/why-choose-a-sinewave-inverter-ups/

And here are explanations about the UPS design,
link: https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1272971

Waveform and design
For PCs, line-interactive UPS would be more than enough since PSUs can easily handle the 2ms to 5ms transfer time of line-interactive UPS.
As far as output waveform goes, true/pure sine wave UPS is best used. While simulated sine wave UPSes are cheaper than true/pure sine wave UPSes, PSUs with Active PFC aren't compatible with simulated sine wave. You might get simulated sine wave UPS running with Active PFC PSU but there can be some major issues. Here's what, how and why.

How do you know which PSUs have Active PFC and which ones don't?
Simple, every PSU that has 80+ certification (e.g 80+ Bronze or 80+ Gold) has Active PFC.

What is Active PFC?
Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor#Power_factor_correction_(PFC)_in_non-linear_loads

What can happen when using simulated sine wave UPS with Active PFC PSU?
When simulated sine wave UPS switches over to the battery power, one of 3 things can happen:
1. UPS displays error resulting PC to shut down immediately.
2. UPS shuts down resulting PC to shut down immediately.
3. UPS switches to battery power resulting PC to power off from UPS (PC stays on).

Why it happens?
Simulated sine wave UPS produces a zero output state during the phase change cycle resulting in a power “gap”. This gap may cause power interruption for active PFC PSUs when switching from AC power output to simulated sine wave output (battery mode).

What to do next?
As stated above, your PC can run off from simulated sine wave UPS but be prepared when you face issues with it. When issues do rise, your best bet would be returning the simulated sine wave UPS and getting true/pure sine wave UPS. Or you can go with true/pure sine wave UPS off the bat.

Wattage
As far as UPS wattage goes, you need to consider the power draw of your PC and monitors. Maybe speakers and wi-fi router too if you plan to plug those into the UPS as well. Though, printers, scanners and other such hardware (full list on your UPS manual) don't plug to the UPS since their startup power draw is way too much for UPS to handle and you can fry your UPS.

Taking PSU's max wattage as a baseline is good idea since it will give your UPS more headroom and you can get longer runtime out of your UPS. Since your PSU is 1000W, at least one monitor is added on top of it. Depending on the monitor size, they use between 23W to 52W. Wi-fi routers don't consume much power. For example, my Cisco EPC3940L consumes 12V at 3A which means 36W.

Good UPS brands to go for are CyberPower, TrippLite and APC. While there are other UPS brands as well, those three are the best out there.
Note: The more powerful UPS you have, the longer UPS can keep your PC running before it's battery is empty.


My 2x PCs (Skylake and Haswell builds, full specs with pics in my sig) do have their own UPS, 1x UPS per PC.
I have two of these in use: CyberPower CP1300EPFCLCD (1300VA/780W, true/pure sine wave, line-interactive),
specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/hk/en/product/sku/CP1300EPFCLCD

My UPSes are part of the PFC Sinewave series and are ~6 years old as of now. CyberPower has made a successor of PFC Sinewave series, with new, revised UPSes (which i also plan to buy, to replace mine out at some point), and for your build, solid option would be;
CyberPower CP1600EPFCLCD 1600VA/1000W (true/pure sine wave, line-interactive) UPS;
specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/eu/en/product/sku/cp1600epfclcd

Though, for my builds, i'm planning to get the 1350VA/810W versions.