Mulit-core proc OS problems worth it?

[rower30]

With all the problems with the dual core CPU’s from AMD and Intel (untested registry edits, software) are they worth it? I figured that I would update to a dual core CPU and be ready when true dual proc and/or multi-thread game and application engines arrived. It seems premature, or am I overreacting? I'm about to send back my X2 3800+ and get the plain Jane 90nm AMD 4000+ single core proc for the same price.

My case is that so many issues seem to gravitate towards multi-core CPU’s in XP-SP2. Does the cool and quiet feature affect single core CPU’s too? I don’t run a lot of desktop apps that would need a multi-proc system, I just thought that the upgrade would allow me to get the system settled a little sooner and just live with it. But, maybe it would be better to just step aside with multi-core until the new socket(s) and OS wash out the wrinkles. Maybe wait till a newer OS know's what to do with them? Opinions?

 

[pat]

Well, the more dual core that will be sold, the faster the apps will become compliant and the lesser problem they will have.

But I'm not sure if you have tried the CPU or not, and just think about getting problem without having got one yet..

 

[rower30]

Well, if I'm afraid to sleep with a prostitute because I might get AIDS, I guess I am. I know I won't have problems with the single core proc. But, what are tha odds of getting AIDS in my system If I use the dual core proc? I have a 3800+ X2 on order, but am somewhat unsure if I should unwrap it and see if I can get away with it or not. I'd rather not throw it in a desk drawer and get the single core proc.

I'm too familiar with the odds. I have a PC power and cooling supply thay sounds like a pack of chickens off to slaughter. OK, what are the odds of that? I asked for a replacement fan TWICE and never got an answer from the reported excellent cutomer service. What are the odds of that? Small, but it happens.

 

[pat]

Let say that..1000000 user are using dual core sucessfully. and then there is you.. Would you say.. "if they can, I can" or "I'm too much of a looser to even try it"??? Put in this perspective, I would get the X2 for sure and definitively use google to get any info about patches and updates for apps and game I'll be using, and try to gather as much info instead of being here.. asking what should I do.. But it is me..

 

[mpjesse]

The only issue I've had with my dual core processor (an AMD X2 4200+ Manchester) is with Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. But Pat helped me fix that and it works fine now. If you run into an issue w/ some software and dual core, you can make it use just one processor by hitting CTRL ALT DEL, right clicking on the application processor, and setting the affinity to just 1 CPU; that should fix almost any issue. But like I said, I've only had to do that with GTA: SA. Every other game runs just fine. Apps too.

-mpjesse

 

[pat]

So, you were not that much of a looser because you tried, but rather more a lazy one, as you did not search for patch and updates...

Funny.. I don't have an X2 yet.. but plans one soon.. maybe with AM2 or with some leftover 939..

 

[glidingsmoothly]

Some games have issues with dual cores, Chronicales of Riddick was one I came accross.

Setting up affinity to use one cpu in tasks manager is one solution. I've downloaded an AMD cpu driver and windows hotfix for dual cores. That solved my problems with games not working properly with dual cores.

 

[toolfan524]

I have NO regrets with my 4400+ at all. It was worth everypenny, and i have not experienced any problems (except for when i downloaded the Intel Dual core patch for Call of Duty 2).

 

[hella-d]

Im Currently Using Dual-Core With Absolutely No Problems (And Some Awsome Speed Boosts Might I Add) So Id Reccomend Dual-Core For Everybody Else If The Have The $$

Tip: Windows XP x64 Edition (Wich Im Currently Running) Handles Dual-Cores Even Better Than Standard XP

 

[rower30]

In all due respects, "then there is me" times how many users? No, it isn't just "me". The software is well behind the hardware. I doubt that XP will be made to run dual core, and the improvements will be pushing to the next OS before dual core is truly effective.

The CPU affinity isn't a fix because you have to reset the proc affiinity after every boot on a lot of apps. Some seem to keep their affinity. That's garbage main stream computing in my book. I used to use hyperthreading except it didn't work with IE6 or outlook Express. So if I want to use Email or the net I just had to disable thyperthreading in the PC's BIOS. Ya, right. It didn't work, and it still doesn't work after all this time. Single thread proc is 100% fine. Why would I want to be "not a loser" and buy a proc that is more troublesome (I can't disable it 100% to a single core like hyperhtreading)? Why would I want to load countless dual core fixes for all kinds of individual apps? Count them, Doom 3, Quake 4, ETC. I' keep getting more and more of "the only app I have" apps, and all with their own registry and counsel patches. Well, if you start to add them up, dual core does have compatibility issues.

You say that I don't know about the patches? Why do you think I'm here? I know all too well about all the patches. If it was just the X2 AMD driver patch and the hot fix, that isn't even a fix in my book since you manually have to edit registries, that leaves out about everybody that isn't a geek, I'd be on my way with the AMD X2. But it isn't, and the posts here support that it isn't.

The only new news I hear is to play a game of software chicken trying to make unstable software work. I know that's fun for a lot of you, but my wife doesn't partake in my geekiness. It works, or it's broke to her. A PC has enough issues without unresolved software issues.

I say yes to the dual core frontier, but I just can't get along with it yet. When you can snap a dual core proc in, maybe load a fully automated driver patch, and it works just like ANY single core proc, sign me up. SLI is a good example. Yes, you have to flip a few software switches (on current motherboard designs) and load the SLI drivers. But that's it. The "conversion" never stops on dual core procs.

 

[hella-d]

I Never Had To Change Anything In The Registry When I Installed The AMD X2 Fix And It Fixed The (Few) Problems I Did Have

 

[slvr_phoenix]

Okay, first off, if you're so damned paranoid, and (think that you) know so much, then why did you order it in the first place? If this is your attitude, send it back and get a single-core for flirk's sake.

Now, on to your misinformation.

I doubt that XP will be made to run dual core

Since when. XP Pro, as far as I know, can run two dual cores. As far as software is concerned, one dual core is hardly different than a hyper-threaded P4 or two single-cores, and XP Pro runs those just fine.

The CPU affinity isn't a fix because you have to reset the proc affiinity after every boot on a lot of apps.

1) A lot of apps? You should hardly ever have to touch affinity.
2) I thought that there were supposed to be softwares that you could use to automatically set afinities for you so that you never have to touch them twice.

I used to use hyperthreading except it didn't work with IE6 or outlook Express. So if I want to use Email or the net I just had to disable thyperthreading in the PC's BIOS. Ya, right. It didn't work, and it still doesn't work after all this time.

Where did you get that idea? I've been using hyper-threading (P4 2.6 NWC) for years now and never had problems with IE6 or Outlook Express. In fact, I've never had any problems from hyper-threading. It's pretty darn handy in my book.

Why would I want to load countless dual core fixes for all kinds of individual apps?

Considering how many times you have to update games after you buy them (like every single one) I don't see where that's any concern. A patch is a patch is a patch, and they all need patches, dualcore or not.

You say that I don't know about the patches? Why do you think I'm here? I know all too well about all the patches.

No offense, but from the sound of it, you really don't seem to know as much as you think you do.

If it was just the X2 AMD driver patch and the hot fix, that isn't even a fix in my book since you manually have to edit registries

See what I mean? Who has to manually edit registries. AFAIK the patch does that for you.

The only new news I hear is to play a game of software chicken trying to make unstable software work.

Umm ... I haven't heard of a single app or game yet that can't be made to work, and the list of them to even have to do anything special for is really small.

A PC has enough issues without unresolved software issues.

1) The software issues are resolved.
2) My PC has no issues. I've yet to ever build a PC that does have issues. The only PC I ever owned that did have issues was a cheap eMachines PoS with a power supply that couldn't meet the demands of my upgrades to the box.

I say yes to the dual core frontier, but I just can't get along with it yet.

It sounds to me that you just don't want to get along with it yet. Which is fine. But if that's the case, why did you order one? And why are you bitching about it now instead of just sending it back and getting a single-core proc?

Personally, I'm thinking that maybe you just enjoy the drama or something.

 

[mpjesse]

There are not patches or updates to fix GTA: SA w/ dual core processors. I even asked Rockstar personally on their support line.

They don't give a crap.

-mpjesse

 

[mpjesse]

If you feel so strongly about dual cores not working right then why in GOD'S NAME did you post your original thread?!?!

Every single program you mentioned works fine w/ my X2 4200+. And when I had a 3.4Ghz P4 w/ HT, Outlook and IE6 ran just fine. So I don't know what ur on, but it must be pretty good.

In fact, I'm sitting here on my office machine (3.0Ghz Prescott w/ HT enabled) running outlook and IE6. It works fine!

rower30 wrote:
I say yes to the dual core frontier, but I just can't get along with it yet.

Slvr's right. You don't want to get along with it.

-mpjesse

 

[rower30]

Yes, it does depend on what you have in your PC for dual core, or hyperthread. Neither is as stable as a single core, by a long shot.
We all like to think that since "our" PC works, so should yours. Funny, every person at work that has a dual core AMD has issues with instability. There is a difference between a patch to make something WORK, verses make it work BETTER. Games WORK without a patch, they work BETTER with one.

I have to ask, what do I need to do to make a single core Athlon work? NOTHING!

My OPINION that XP is still not, nor will ever be as stable as a single core app is not "misinformation". It is my opinion, and continues to be based on my PC. I do use my PC, and I know what it does, and with what. Hyperthread not working is not an "idea"? It doesn't work. So far, no amount of "correct" information has made it work on my PC.

I'm not sure YOU want to know the issues with this processor. It isn't a damning set of issues, but they are issues that make a PC not family friendly, that's for sure. Games can be made to "work" but not work as well as with a single proc. Quake 4, for instance. You don't have to look far to find the software issues, and they ARE NOT FIXED! The software fixes are NOT SUPPORTED by AMD or Microsoft, and have to be sleuthed of off the Internet. Does my OS auto-update install them? No, Does the CPU ship with patches? No. This isn't fixed software this is search and rescue. A lot of you like this, my wife and kids don’t.

The proc is great, but software just isn't sure what to do with it yet. If you can "disable" the proc to a single core until after a more stable dual core OS is out, that would be great. That way, you can dive in to the pool when you want to without hitting your head on the bottom.

Everybody here has their own set of issues with their PC. Not everybody is so awesome as to build things without problems. Are we to believe you’re so wonderful as to do so, or just lucky? Trust me, we all would like your luck, but better PC builders than I have had more than a few issues with hardware/software compatibility.

Enjoying drama is great for geeks, but the average user isn't a geek. They shouldn't be required to be one for prime time on dual core. It should be a transparent change, it isn't.

Just because someone doesn't want to ride out front and get bugs in their teeth isn't a deriding remark to those that do. You guys get things to where they work, and everyone appreciates it. But, you don't have the patience to see that my objective is to transition to a better PC that is more fully developed, and not spend my weekends searching the Internet for unsupported software patches. No mention of this CPU's problems were evident in the reviews. I dug a little deeper to find issues, and they are there. The fixes are too numerous to be considered a "fix". They are unrelenting "fixes". Sucking up to these issues doesn't make it as transparent as a single proc.

Oh I'll get a dual proc PC, just not now. And for those that are using them as early adopters, keep the pressure on. I appreciate it.

As for SLI? I ordered a second card today. The verdict seems good on SLI with supported software, drivers and hardware from Nvidia. Games that don’t support SLI ignore it. And, I can tell it to go away when I want to.

 

[RichPLS]

Games benefit from dual core when any one of these factors apply...have more than one applying, benefits are greater!!!

Game is multi-threaded...
IE...
Call of Duty 2
City of Villains
F.E.A.R.
World of Warcraft
Age of Empires III
Black & White 2
Peter Jackson’s King Kong
The Movies
Battlefield 2
Battlefield 2: Special Forces
Tom Clancy’s Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter
Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six 3
Tony Hawk’s American Wasteland
Quake 4
Vangauard Saga of Heros

the list is ever growing also...

or

Video Card driver is multi-threaded... IE, ATI and nVidia...

or

Gamer is running background services while gaming... IE, Anti-Virus S/W, S/W firewalls, downloading torrents, etc...other core can handle these processes while devoting main core to gaming...


BTW, my first dual processor PC was a Dell Precision 550 workstation, dual P3 550mhz with 2gigs RAM running on WinNT 3.51 then ver 4.
No problems with that PC nor with my dual core Opteron now.
Get a single core if it makes you feel more secure and stable, I just happen to see it the other way. [/snickers at single core dude]
:lol:

 

[slvr_phoenix]

rower30, it sounds like you've just really had some bad motherboards, or power supplies, or something. Because your experiences don't even remotely translate to the median (or would that be mode?) of the real world. With your HT problems, did you ever flash your BIOS? You are using Win XP, right? Something really doesn't add up there.

But more to the point, again, if you're so bloody well dead set against going with a dualcore proc right now, then why did you order one?

 

[function9]

Sorry but your shortcomings sound like user error and not the direct fault of hardware. Updates/patches/etc are part of BUILDING YOUR OWN, if you can't live with that, go buy a dell. Seriously. Since XP has been out I've run a P4 w/HT, single core A64, dual single core Opterons and now a dual core x2 4400. And I'm far from being alone, people don't have a problem running multiple cores with XP. I"ve also built numerous computers for friends and family over the past couple years with setups ranging from the above and not a single problem, all running XP Pro or Home. Anyone that's setup and run a multicore system properly (and this doesn't include a p4 w/HT) knows that computing in general is a lot more smooth and snappy with them.

Look around at any "workstation" class computer, whether home built or pre built. Guess what kinda hardware it's running? Multiple cores, whether it's a dualcore, dual dualcores or dual single cores. And guess what OS almost all of them run? I'll give you a hint, starts with Windows, has an XP in the middle and ends in Pro. Yep you guessed it.

You're right, these are your opinions. But would you agree that we generate our own opinions from our personal experiences? Because from your opinions I get the feeling you're not that experienced when it comes to computers, thus doesn't make your opinions that informative, more like blathering.

From what I've seen dualcores in most cases haven't been the issue, the issue has either been the "Cool&Quiet" function or people thinking they can just pop a dualcore chip in without reinstalling the OS or in the least, updating the BIOS. There is no reason why XP would have issues with dualcore chips as, as far as the OS is concerned a single dualcore chip is no different than a traditional dual cpu setup, which have no problems running Windows.

If you want your opinions and concerns to be taken seriously come with a more informative approach, not; "OMFG I can't get a dualcore chip to run so obviously no one can run multicores with XP!!! And XP wasn't made ro run multicores! THIS SUCKS!" Granted this isn't a direct quote from you, but it's the basic message I get from your posts.

 

[Heyyou27]

That's so strange! I have an X2 4800+ and have never run into a problem like that. I run Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005, and Windows XP Professional x-64 edition.

 

[rower30]

First, I've built PC's from the AMD 80 days. Second, it is indeed a hardware / software '"error" that disables multithread to run on my PC. That's exactly the point. It is UNIQUE to dual core. The PC functions FINE without it, so "multi-thread" IS NOT transparent.

Workstations AVOID THIS by limiting apps and hardware to USE MUTI CPU / DUAL CORE SPECIFICALLY, and the apps are approved to work with the hardware.

Why are the AMD X2 drivers and hot fixes out there if everything is fine? It isn't. All PC's are configured differently and as such, NOT ALL will have issues. I have three users on my PC, and only one will mess with Internet sluething to find and use unsupoported patches. I know PC's have issues, and I want the least common denominator of issues to deal with, not unsupported patches to go along with them.

"Anyone that's setup and run a multicore system properly (and this doesn't include a p4 w/HT) knows that computing in general is a lot more smooth and snappy with them." is fine when it works. I have no issue with that. No one had issues with 1970 American cars when they ran, either. Then they went japanese. Well, I want Japanese PC's not a dual core American one, figuratively speaking. Cars have issues, I want fewer issues.

For now, when we're "faster" with a dual core proc is wait and see. Two SLI video cards and a single 4000+ will outstrip a dual core 3800+ and single video card in games for about the same combined price. I don't care about desktop apps. The 2Gig of memory and a 4000+ is plenty able to handle that. When VPU's and CPU's both go dual core, and XP is patched to be more transparent, I'll be in line at that time.

To say all PC issues is "the user" is plain nonesense and I won't even bother to explain this silly gaff.

 

[pat]

Do you remember when Intel brought hyper threading to its CPU ? All the mess that this has created? Some apps would gain, but others would either slow down to a crawl or simply refuse to work. XP even had to be patched in some circumstances??? Sometime, disabling HT in BIOS would be the only fix. So.. apps has been patched, Intel didn't have to remove Ht from its processor, or people didnt hve to stop buying Intel.

The same thing is happening with dual core. So, do AMD and Intel should stop making dual core CPU? I don't think so. because they have a clear advantage over single core CPU in some apps. Sure, gaming right is not one of those, but, now, with nvidia and ATI starting to optimize their drivers for dual core, and some game developper too, maybe that in 6 month, even a 3800+X2 or a 830D would game faster than your 4000+? And then, what will you do?

 

[rower30]

Pat, thanks for the sensible reply. I agree 100%. Here is what I think I'll do...

OK, here is the deal breaker, if I can permanently disable the X2 3800+ CPU in the device manager, and make it act like a single core CPU, I can live with it till the software is better able to manage the CPU. I’ll initially run it as a dual CPU and see what happens, and if it gets to be a pain, I’ll dumb it down and as a single 3800+, it should still be plenty fast, and still faster, than my current system’s 533MHz FSB 3.06GHz Intel CPU. If not, I will get an Athlon 4000+ and wait out the rough spot in software.

Can anyone with an AMD X2, any model will do, try this and report back? Disable the second CPU in your device manager and see if it works in applications that have issues? It would be great if someone has a game that is stuttering such as W.O.W or Quake 4. If the issue()s is/are resolved by disabling the second CPU in the device manager, I can make the PC family friendly when they use it, and make it a geek machine when I use it with a few simple mouse clicks in the device manager.

There is nothing wrong with AMD’s X2 CPU, it is the multi-thread ignorant software that spoils a small part of the party. But, if there is an easier work around than adding numerous patches until such time that the software eventually recognized dual core, I think it will be fine. The future is dual core.

I don’t think that I have any hardware that will be an issue. Any recommendations to look out for? I think that this system will run for a few years with little need for upgrades.

AMD 3800+ X2 with A64 Arctic Freezer 64 PRO cooler (real quiet)
ASUS A8N– SLI Premium
Two Gig Corsair PC3200 Value RAM (I don’t overclock)
Two SLI VGA 7800GT 256-P2-N517
BFG 600W Power Supply
WD2500KS SATA hard drive
CDRW/DVD Liteon SOHC-5236K
One 1.44MB floppy
XPSP2 Home
Cooler Master Praetorian PAC-T01-E1 Case.

 

[Heyyou27]

I have never played world of warcraft on this pc, however I have played Quake4 and it worked fine with both cores enabled. I have no idea what's going on with your PC, but most people don't seem to have these probelms.

 

[pat]

You are assuming that you'll have problem, but maybe you won't get any too. The microsoft fix for XP might be the only thing needed. And I think that even THG has develloped an app that allow better control of affinity, so may search the site and have a look.

What I suggest you do is built the computer, try it, and if you find dual core being much of a problem, tell me and I'll arrange something to buy you dual core and you'll get the single core you want ..

 

[Fox_granit]

The answer to this is simple. its the fact that you have XP HOME. Home is not designed to handle multipule processors, pure and simple. If you used XP Pro, your problems would all end.