Question My laptop's CPU is missing 200MHz at full power

chipimaurino

Honorable
Feb 24, 2018
14
0
10,520
Hey everyone, I recently did a a few tests with my gaming laptop (MSI GL63 8SE) as it had cooling issues. Those are fixed but as I tested I noticed that even with P95 pushing the CPU to max load it never ever went past 1995Mhz, which is a good 205Mhz short of the 2.2GHz its supposed to pull. Of course, Im not expecting it to get exactly there but 200 MHz is quite a bit of power to be missing but...
I was wondering if there is an easy fix to the ratio? The bios for the laptop is of course shit and its missing most of the options which is also an issue, I dont know how to fix that one if its needed :pensive:.
Attached (I hope, since insert image doesnt work with imgur?) is a screenshot of HWinfo during the most recent Prime95 torture test.

 

Misgar

Respectable
Mar 2, 2023
1,958
531
2,590
Since you're running all cores at near 100%, the CPU might not have sufficient cooling to run at 2200MHz all-core and thermal limiting has down clocked the speed to 2GHz.

Laptop design is a compromise between size, weight and cooling. On a desktop PC you could fit a larger cooler. On a laptop you're stuck.
 

chipimaurino

Honorable
Feb 24, 2018
14
0
10,520
Since you're running all cores at near 100%, the CPU might not have sufficient cooling to run at 2200MHz all-core and thermal limiting has down clocked the speed to 2GHz.

Laptop design is a compromise between size, weight and cooling. On a desktop PC you could fit a larger cooler. On a laptop you're stuck.
It is not a cooling issue, it is stable at around 70 C and HWinfo says its not throttled.


@chipimaurino

The 8750H can run Cinebench at a steady 3900 MHz if it is well cooled and the turbo power limits are set appropriately.

Prime95 will overwhelm most laptops. Look at the limit reasons data in HWINFO and it will tell you the reason for throttling.

Learn to use ThrottleStop. Post screenshots of the FIVR and TPL windows if you need help.
It just says it isnt limited or throttled... Even Prime95 cant get it past 70C after the cooling upgrades and the cooling fan I got. So, about those turbo power limits, where are they set or where can I check them?
 
It just says it isnt limited or throttled...
Your 8750H is definitely being limited. Try using ThrottleStop. Post screenshots of the main window, the FIVR and TPL windows. Run a more realistic stress test like Cinebench R23 and take screenshots of ThrottleStop while the CPU is loaded with that. Cinebench is a consistent stress test that will provide you with a score that can easily be compared to other users with the same CPU.


https://www.techspot.com/downloads/7579-cinebench-r23.html

2200 MHz is the base frequency when Intel Turbo Boost is disabled. Uninstall any MSI software until you get this problem figured out. The MSI Control Center has a reputation of being a bug filled mess.

If it is not that then it is either the BIOS or Windows that is not setting your CPU up correctly. Post some ThrottleStop screenshots and I will be able to help you get this figured out. Open the ThrottleStop Limit Reasons window and look under the CORE column for any boxes lighting up red while the CPU is loaded. That would indicate throttling.
 
Last edited:

Misgar

Respectable
Mar 2, 2023
1,958
531
2,590
When I checked the ThrottleStop link (thanks @uWebb429 for that) I noticed this:

Some laptops are using clock modulation and multiplier reductions to lower the performance and power consumption of your computer. This is done deliberately to either allow your computer to run cooler or to allow your laptop to operate with a power adapter that is not sufficient to fully power your laptop and recharge its battery at the same time.

I've seen reviews of laptops and low power NUCs where the manufacturer deliberately limits the power consumed by the CPU, to extend battery life or reduce heat/running costs. It's just possible MSI have restricted the performance of the GL63 8SE for similar reasons. A bit like de-tuning a vehicle engine for use in California.

Good luck with your ThrottleStop experiments.
 
The GL63 series includes a 180W power adapter.

https://www.msi.com/Laptop/GL63-8SX/Specification

If the original MSI power adapter is being used, there is no reason for the CPU to be running so slow. Extending battery life might be a legit reason when running on battery power. It is not a legit reason for throttling when plugged in.

An 8750H should easily be able to run at 3900 MHz not 2000 MHz. Intel CPUs are designed to use full turbo boost and run as fast as possible when plugged in.
 

chipimaurino

Honorable
Feb 24, 2018
14
0
10,520
+Your 8750H is definitely being limited. Try using ThrottleStop. Post screenshots of the main window, the FIVR and TPL windows. Run a more realistic stress test like Cinebench R23 and take screenshots of ThrottleStop while the CPU is loaded with that. Cinebench is a consistent stress test that will provide you with a score that can easily be compared to other users with the same CPU.


https://www.techspot.com/downloads/7579-cinebench-r23.html

2200 MHz is the base frequency when Intel Turbo Boost is disabled. Uninstall any MSI software until you get this problem figured out. The MSI Control Center has a reputation of being a bug filled mess.

If it is not that then it is either the BIOS or Windows that is not setting your CPU up correctly. Post some ThrottleStop screenshots and I will be able to help you get this figured out. Open the ThrottleStop Limit Reasons window and look under the CORE column for any boxes lighting up red while the CPU is loaded. That would indicate throttling.
Aight, Ive done all the things and there is indeed throttling as you said.
Here is the Main ThrottleStop window, FIVR and TPL before Cinebench:


Then, here is during the Cinebench test (+plus the limits screen) and the cinebench test result:


I would really appreciate your help with this one cause ThrottleStop is one of those programs where I dont dare touch anything to experiment at all.

I did notice it run at 2.7GHz according to ThrottleStop during the test but thats still around 1 GHz short...
 
Last edited:
@chipimaurino

The 8750H has a 45W TDP power rating. Most laptop manufacturers decided to set the long term PL1 turbo power limit equal to the 45W TDP value. During a full load stress test like Cinebench, this forces the CPU to slow down to prevent power consumption from exceeding 45W. ThrottleStop is correctly showing that your computer is power limit throttling.

During your Cinebench test, the main screen of ThrottleStop shows POWER in red which indicates power limit throttling. The CORE column of the Limit Reasons window confirms that PL1 is the reason for throttling. If you look at the top of the TPL window, the MSR PL1 and MMIO PL1 power limits are both set to 45W. At default settings, your CPU is doing exactly what it was designed to do. Throttle right at 45W.

Your laptop seems to have better than average cooling. If you want, you can try using ThrottleStop to increase the turbo power limits. If this works it will increase power consumption which will increase heat. Some laptop owners consider increasing the power limits to be overclocking and are not interested in increasing the power limits.

If you want to do some testing, check the MMIO Lock box, clear the Disable Controls box and change Long Power PL1 from 45 to 60. Press OK and run Cinebench again to see if it makes any difference. Some laptops are set internally to a long term maximum of 45 Watts. Run another Cinebench test and watch the main screen of ThrottleStop. Does power limit throttling occur at 45W or has this limit been bypassed? If you are still being limited to 45W then you cannot use ThrottleStop to exceed this long term power limit.

If 60 works better during Cinebench, you can try 70 or 80. At some point you might end up with thermal throttling instead of power limit throttling.

WORWfUj.png


Most people use ThrottleStop to undervolt their CPUs. Undervolting reduces power consumption which allows the CPU to run faster. At default settings, the long term 45W power budget allows your CPU to use an average multiplier of 27.95 while running Cinebench. If you lower the voltage, the CPU will be able to run faster while staying within the same 45W power budget. If it was my laptop I would do both. Decrease the voltage and try increasing the PL1 power limit.

There are lots of YouTube videos available that show how to use ThrottleStop to undervolt. A good place to start testing is with the core and the cache set to a negative offset voltage of -100 mV for both. If you try to undervolt too much, worst case, your computer will crash and you will have to restart it. The BIOS should automatically reset all of the voltages to default values. If you saved some voltages to ThrottleStop that were not stable, after you reboot, delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file before starting ThrottleStop. Doing this tells ThrottleStop not to apply voltages when you start up. You already know the voltages you were trying to use were not stable. That is why your computer crashed to no need to try those same voltages again.

Many 8750H are 100% stable with the cache set to a negative offset of -125 mV and the core set to -175 mV. Every CPU is unique so if you are going to undervolt, be prepared to do some stability testing. The built in TS Bench 960M test is a good basic stability test. If the TS Bench reports any errors, stop the test and increase the voltage. Errors in any test are a sign that your CPU needs more voltage.

The FIVR window should look like this when you request a negative -100.6 mV offset for the core. The CPU Cache should look the same as this window. The Intel GPU, iGPU Unslice and the System Agent are not as important. Most people only undervolt the core and the cache.

gsSiPiM.png
 

chipimaurino

Honorable
Feb 24, 2018
14
0
10,520
@chipimaurino

The 8750H has a 45W TDP power rating. Most laptop manufacturers decided to set the long term PL1 turbo power limit equal to the 45W TDP value. During a full load stress test like Cinebench, this forces the CPU to slow down to prevent power consumption from exceeding 45W. ThrottleStop is correctly showing that your computer is power limit throttling.

During your Cinebench test, the main screen of ThrottleStop shows POWER in red which indicates power limit throttling. The CORE column of the Limit Reasons window confirms that PL1 is the reason for throttling. If you look at the top of the TPL window, the MSR PL1 and MMIO PL1 power limits are both set to 45W. At default settings, your CPU is doing exactly what it was designed to do. Throttle right at 45W.

Your laptop seems to have better than average cooling. If you want, you can try using ThrottleStop to increase the turbo power limits. If this works it will increase power consumption which will increase heat. Some laptop owners consider increasing the power limits to be overclocking and are not interested in increasing the power limits.

If you want to do some testing, check the MMIO Lock box, clear the Disable Controls box and change Long Power PL1 from 45 to 60. Press OK and run Cinebench again to see if it makes any difference. Some laptops are set internally to a long term maximum of 45 Watts. Run another Cinebench test and watch the main screen of ThrottleStop. Does power limit throttling occur at 45W or has this limit been bypassed? If you are still being limited to 45W then you cannot use ThrottleStop to exceed this long term power limit.

If 60 works better during Cinebench, you can try 70 or 80. At some point you might end up with thermal throttling instead of power limit throttling.

WORWfUj.png


Most people use ThrottleStop to undervolt their CPUs. Undervolting reduces power consumption which allows the CPU to run faster. At default settings, the long term 45W power budget allows your CPU to use an average multiplier of 27.95 while running Cinebench. If you lower the voltage, the CPU will be able to run faster while staying within the same 45W power budget. If it was my laptop I would do both. Decrease the voltage and try increasing the PL1 power limit.

There are lots of YouTube videos available that show how to use ThrottleStop to undervolt. A good place to start testing is with the core and the cache set to a negative offset voltage of -100 mV for both. If you try to undervolt too much, worst case, your computer will crash and you will have to restart it. The BIOS should automatically reset all of the voltages to default values. If you saved some voltages to ThrottleStop that were not stable, after you reboot, delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file before starting ThrottleStop. Doing this tells ThrottleStop not to apply voltages when you start up. You already know the voltages you were trying to use were not stable. That is why your computer crashed to no need to try those same voltages again.

Many 8750H are 100% stable with the cache set to a negative offset of -125 mV and the core set to -175 mV. Every CPU is unique so if you are going to undervolt, be prepared to do some stability testing. The built in TS Bench 960M test is a good basic stability test. If the TS Bench reports any errors, stop the test and increase the voltage. Errors in any test are a sign that your CPU needs more voltage.

The FIVR window should look like this when you request a negative -100.6 mV offset for the core. The CPU Cache should look the same as this window. The Intel GPU, iGPU Unslice and the System Agent are not as important. Most people only undervolt the core and the cache.

gsSiPiM.png

Alright, I have tried it and set the limit to 60 and while it does get there, I think thats just the short term limit which I didnt touch. Eventually once under load for around 5 seconds power is indeed abruptly clamped to 45, regardless of PL1 which is set to 60. I also undervolted to -120/-170 without issues, Ill see how far I can push it. It does appear to have given some pretty decent results even at 45W, so thank you. Is there no way to increase PL1 even slightly then?
Also, do I need to boot up ThrottleStop manually every time I boot up the system for the undervolt to work or is it permanent?


As a sidenote, tho maybe out of scope for this thread (unsure whats the thread etiquette in this forum, should I set the previous answer as correct and move to a new thread?), can I also do the undervolting for my desktop's CPU or are there further considerations there? I imagine that one isnt capped in any way.

Thank you for everything tho!
 
Last edited: