Question Networking impossibility that I can't figure out ?

[OzDrDj]

Hi There Everyone,

Long Bit
I have a great question for you all. A Bit of Background, I was running for a long time, A Netgear DGND3700v2, connected to my DoDo ISP Router with Voip. So I'm running Kodi for all my movies. Im getting Dropouts and Buffering So I Run Cables Between my 3 Main PCs, 1 main Computer and Server in the Dining Room, 1 Media Player and Gamer in the Loungeroom, and 1 Media Player in the Master Bedroom. This serves me great for a long while. Then I Try to get clever. I go out and buy Security Cameras, WIFI power Switches and Smart Globes. Now, I don't have a strong enough WiFi Signal to reach all corners of the house.

So, I go out and buy a Netgear Nighthawk AX8. Thinking this great big Gaming router will solve my problems. Nope, I get an RAX8 Access Point and some other Nighthawk 7700 something Access point. Connect them all up, Nothing but problems. Drop Outs, Conflicting Ip Addresses, Multiple SSIDs.
I Sell the Lot and buy the Latest 3 Piece Netgear Orbi. More Stupidity and Multiple SSIDs More Drop outs, Mesh Problems. and Ridiculous Splitting of Subnets that could not be changed made it useless. I get A Google Mesh System, Now that takes an IP Super Expert to configure that, Just when you think you have it right, something conflicts and the whole thing stops. So I get rid of all this and start again.

Short Bit
My ISP Router on (192.168.0.1) connected to a Tenda 2100 Router (192.168.1.1, DHCP Enabled, we'll call this R1) this is connected to a Netgear 8 way Switch which Runs back to the Main Server, To The Loungeroom PC and to the Bedroom PC. Plus a Tenda 1900 Router (We'll call this R2) set as an Access Point.
The Tenda 2100 is also Connected to A Tenda 1900 Router in the Garage as an access point. (and this one R3). R2 is connected Lan1 to the 8 way switch. Lan 2 is connected to a PS3 in the Bedroom. R3 is Connected Lan 1 to Lan 3 on R1

Now, I have Internet on my Server Computer, that is Connected to the 8way switch, and I can see the My Lounge Computer and Bedroom Computer on the Network page of Windows. All Computers can see each other and i can watch all the movies on the Server from the Lounge or Bedroom, But I can't get internet?
Now If the internet is connected to Point 1 on the 8 way switch, and the 3 computers are connected to 2 3 and 4 and the Server is on 2, and has internet, and the Computers on 3 and 4 can see computer 2 why can't they get internet.

This makes no sense to me. Ive tried to find a network mapper to show how everything is connected, but I can't find anything that works. I've used Advanced IP Scanner to check everything on the Network, Most things it can find, But a couple of things on the Garage router are missing from Advanced IP Scanner, and It can't find the 3rd Router in the Bedroom, also connected to the 8 way switch. All the Lights are Lit up an the 8 way switch where connected and flashing as though they are routing data.

To me it looks like a problem with the 8 way Netgear Switch but some things are working through it, like this PC i'm on now.

Any Ideas Anyone, I've been at this for over 3 months, and I'm about ready to burn the house down and start again.

Cheers

OzDrDj

 

[bill001g]

My guess would be you did not change the IP address of the other routers you are using as a AP. If you left them all on 192.168.1.1 they will fight for that IP and you will get kinda random results. You also need to be sure the DHCP server function is off, many times if the router has a AP mode it does that for you.

In general it should work the way you are running it. When you run a router as a AP it is basically a switch with wifi radios. It does not really matter a lot which ports you use on the devices. Devices that have a AP mode allow you to use the WAN port as a extra lan port in this mode most the time.

A switch is really stupid and if it is unmanaged there is nothing you can set anyway.

 

[Ralston18]

And I will add the suggestion to sketch out a simple map of your network.

Include all devices: device name, device type, make/model, static or DHCP, IP address (if static), MAC, location, and connectivity (wired or wireless).

Indicated ports being used for wired connections.

One handy way to do so is to use a copy of your home's floor plans.

Very likely the "big picture" may reveal what is going astray. Especially if you discover (as mentioned) two devices with the same IP address.

May take some initial effort but once the sketch is done you will understand your network better and have a nice troubleshooting tool....

 

[OzDrDj]

My guess would be you did not change the IP address of the other routers you are using as a AP. If you left them all on 192.168.1.1 they will fight for that IP and you will get kinda random results. You also need to be sure the DHCP server function is off, many times if the router has a AP mode it does that for you.

In general it should work the way you are running it. When you run a router as a AP it is basically a switch with wifi radios. It does not really matter a lot which ports you use on the devices. Devices that have a AP mode allow you to use the WAN port as a extra lan port in this mode most the time.

A switch is really stupid and if it is unmanaged there is nothing you can set anyway.

GDay Bill,
Thanks for your reply.
So yeah, the first thing I did was change the IP address, Knowing where I was going to put the Router, I configured it on my laptop setting it as 192.168.1.2, garage to 1.3 and and outdoor router i forgot to mention on the roof as 1.4
However, when you switch the Tenda Router to AP mode, it automatically changes the IP address to some random number. I grabbed a copy of Advanced IP Scanner and a quick scan shows me Mac Addresses and where things are.
I would love a Network Map tool, but I have tried 4 or so and am too stupid to work them.
DHCP is on, on the ISP Router, a Huwaei HG659 which is set to 192.168.0.1. This Connects to the Tenda 2100 which is WAN 192.168.0.2. But it is set to Lan 192.168.1.1
So, for the Switch, I have all the Wired Network Cables Running into the Ceiling to one central point just above the manhole. 1 to the Tenda R2100 Router 1 to the Server , 1 to the Bedroom PC, 1 to the Bedroom router, 1 to the Roof and 1 to Loungeroom PC.
i don't know how else to do that without a switch box. It is a netgear, so its no a china box. I have another one on the way in case that's the problem.

Perhaps I should go bigger and put in a 16way rack mount switch, perhaps better quality, i don't know. Its the only thing i can see that could be a problem. But how can the network function but the internet not.

Cheers

 

[OzDrDj]

And I will add the suggestion to sketch out a simple map of your network.

Include all devices: device name, device type, make/model, static or DHCP, IP address (if static), MAC, location, and connectivity (wired or wireless).

Indicated ports being used for wired connections.

One handy way to do so is to use a copy of your home's floor plans.

Very likely the "big picture" may reveal what is going astray. Especially if you discover (as mentioned) two devices with the same IP address.

May take some initial effort but once the sketch is done you will understand your network better and have a nice troubleshooting tool....

GDay Ralston,

Thanks for your reply too. I was looking for some sort of network mapping tool, my god, you think that would be an easy one. Even windows XP had it built in, but I can't find one that works anywhere. Or, I just can't work them. Tried 3 or 4.
I suppose I can Draw it all up. Perhaps there is a Simple Network Drawing tool out there.

I'll have a look tomorrow when I am sick. It's St. Patricks day and im off for a Guiness to forget the networking problems, hahahah.

 

[Ralston18]

I have tried a few of those tools off and on but for the most part my network is now much simpler and over all there is little change.

Some of the tools do "discovery" - that is they find devices on the network and capture key information such as device name, IP address, MAC, etc.

Worth a try (if you enjoy working with command line tools : Nmap

https://highon.coffee/blog/nmap-cheat-sheet/

Many such links to be found.

There are more user friendly tools that provide a more user friendly interface with nmap. Zenmap for example.

Yes indeed there is quite a bit of software available to help design networks - those products may or may not include discovery. Or provide just a watered down version for home use. Maybe a limit on the number of devices or available icons/features/functions.

Most such tools offer free trials that may or may not be fully functional. Try a couple more out to get a sense of how user friendly they are and what exactly they capture.

Like most things, it takes repeated and constant use to become truly proficient with any given tool.

Check your router's admin screens. Many routers have tables listing network devices, device information, and status (connected, not connected.) Some routers present a basic diagram as well.

You can start just a sheet of graph paper. No need for a work of art.

Start with a line diagram.

ISP -----> Modem -----> Router ------> Wired devices and ~~~> wireless devices.

Include switches, NAS, printers, AP, etc. as applicable. Note port number and connectivity. Wall jacks, patch panels. etc.

Go online and google "network diagrams" and filter to images and/or examples. Find a network diagram template that you like.

Go from there.

My current diagram is just an Excel spread sheet.

Easy to copy some group of cells that represent a generic path and then edit the path as necessary. Copy and paste the path where need to imitate the connectivity involved.

(I am tinkering around with Powershell. There are some scripts available that will capture network information. Will capture network information and send to spreadsheet. Not a priority effort in any way right now. Just thinking about it. Probably already done by someone else to be honest.)

Anyway, once you have created 1) a basic template established along with 2) a functional network diagram then just make a copy preserving the original. Update and save again as necessary.

And again if you can finagle your diagram to match the physical environment that is all the better.

There may be other ideas and suggestions.

Key is to make it all your tool that you like, can work with and understand. One measure is that if you show your network diagram to someone they will be able to get a quick sense of it all. Again you can describe a house but the floor plan makes it all more visual.

Enjoy the Guiness . Cheers.

 

[ajohnson30]

Heck, the simplest tool is just Paint (or paint.net). Just draw some boxes with lines connecting them

 

[OzDrDj]

I Figured it out....
Connected DoDos Router on 192.168.0.1 to Google Mesh Router, Set Google to 192.168.1.1, Connected Google to 4 Way Switch. 1 Port goes to another 8 way switch in the ceiling, Lan cables to all the main computers.
Ports 2 and 3 on the 4 Way Switch go to the Google Mesh Access Points connected to their wan points Gives you Backhaul and Perfect WiFi from one end of my Yard to the Other.
Port 4 on the 4way switch goes to the Loungeroom, connected to another bloody switch, connected to XBox, PS4, MiBox and Amplifier. So Good Net for gaming, Netflix and Streaming Radio.
That Google Mesh, although it looked a nightmare to configure to begin with, after I set it as the First Main point in the Network, everything else fell in to place easy as.
Thought I'd update you all especially for those who helped.
Cheers All
OzDrDj