I think you are able to easily use all PSU power sockets while also keeping the bottom intake fan. But that requires for you to mount the fan under HDD cage.
Now, i studied your pics and you can move the fan further under HDD cage but since at the very end, there are no 140mm screw slits, only 120mm ones, you'd end up fastening the fan with 2 screws.
Some image editing;
Legend:
Blue - fan frame
Red - screw mounting positions
Yellow - possible screw mounting holes for 140mm fan (can't tell quite accurately from the pic)
So, give it a look and maybe you can install the fan under HDD cage fully. This will leave ample space for PSU and it's cable connections.
As of silicone corner pieces, these aren't required per se. Noctua has added them to dampen the vibrations fan may cause (e.g resonates with PC case). But to get rid of resonation, loosen the fan screws a bit. Also, since PC would live in another room than you, the vibration noise wouldn't be an issue for you, IF there is even any.
For optical cables?
Common ones that you can buy, range up to 100km (62 miles). After that, you'll run into attenuation and dispersion issues. To mitigate that, there are special dispersion-compensating fiber cables, that range up to 200km (124 miles).
However, if you also use optical amplifiers, then distance is essentially unlimited. E.g transatlantic internet cables, that are at the ocean bed, are also optical cables. And longest of them, at current date, is 14500km long (9009 miles).
Any 2-pin, 3-pin and 4-pin fan will work, given that fan is intended to work with 12V. And with 4-pin fans, you don't use PWM signal to control it, but instead DC signal (voltage adjustment).
E.g my Corsair ML140 Pro LED fans are actually 4-pin PWM fans but they operate just fine with DC control method as well.
No wires/cables are connected to MoBo what-so-ever. Heck, if you can provide the fan controller the power it needs via one MOLEX connector, you don't even have to use it inside the PC.
Fan controller has 6x channel wires, 6x temp probes (all of them labeled as seen here) and one MOLEX connector for input power;
the eye candy can be good if you want to impress people, and as a conversation piece, and as art, but nowadays I tend to be a functionalist and an ergonomist, I am interested in what things can do, and the convenience and effortlessness of use. these 2 constraints can clash, eg manual controls clash with ease of use.
I have the ARGB LEDs in my PCs because it's nice to look at for myself and also to illuminate otherwise dark and unlit PC internals. Latter is needed, so i can keep an eye on the conditions of my hardware (e.g if CPU cooler fans or bottom/rear/top fans are still spinning). Also it indicates to me the dust buildup in my case, so i can tell when i need to service my PCs and clean the dust out of them.
Busses have their engine at the back, so, driver can be as up front as possible, often sitting ahead of front tires. With normal passenger cars, you have engine in front of you, so, you can't sit that up front. Though, some vans have rear mounted engines and driver can also sit up front. E.g Volkswagen Type 2 (T3),
wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Type_2_(T3)
While with EU lorries (aka cab-over), you're sitting on top of the engine. So, from higher sitting position, you have even better view at the front but it will create a blind spot just at the front of the vehicle (unless you have a mirror to view into blind spot).
as of visibility issues, these can be remedied with modern technology:
when I used a Nissan Xtrail insurance replacement vehicle for a few weeks, that had hidden cameras and software rejigging the camera feeds to produce an aeriel view of the car, which meant you could do perfect parking manoeuvres in a tight spot, eg if you have to park between 2 vehicles on the side of the road, what I find to be the trickiest manoeuvre if there is minimal space.
Good old mirror + your own eyes are still better. Cameras and the like, all use electricity. If the car's ECM (aka brain) goes haywire, you can't use your fancy cameras.
My car also has rear parking sensor, that beeps when i reverse. The closer i get to the rear object, the faster it starts to beep, while producing constant noise when distance is 30cm or less. Helps in reverse parking but it also has it's flaws. The object must be in sensor range and not higher (e.g some low hanging branch) and it can't make sense of individual pole.
even if its ok, I feel uncomfortable about asymmetry. eg the human body is symmetrical, there is some slight asymmetry, eg the one side of the heart pumps to the lungs, the other side pumps to the body, and things like right handedness. the brain functionally is asymmetric. the duodenum also is on one side etc.
On 1st glance, human body seems symmetrical, but if you look closely, into fine details, then it is not. Usually ears are a bit different shape to one and another. Then, some people have slightly longer/shorter left/right leg or arm. And internally, some organs are also either more on the one side than on the another side. E.g heart, liver.
I think you are able to easily use all PSU power sockets while also keeping the bottom intake fan. But that requires for you to mount the fan under HDD cage.
are you saying without temporarily removing the HDD cage?
and then also to remove the silicon corners?
if the HDD cage is to be temporarily removed, how is that done? I think some of the attachment screws must be hidden, where I will have to move some other stuff, but can I be sure that is removable?
Now, i studied your pics and you can move the fan further under HDD cage but since at the very end, there are no 140mm screw slits, only 120mm ones, you'd end up fastening the fan with 2 screws.
Some image editing;
Legend:
Blue - fan frame
Red - screw mounting positions
Yellow - possible screw mounting holes for 140mm fan (can't tell quite accurately from the pic)
So, give it a look and maybe you can install the fan under HDD cage fully. This will leave ample space for PSU and it's cable connections.
As of silicone corner pieces, these aren't required per se. Noctua has added them to dampen the vibrations fan may cause (e.g resonates with PC case). But to get rid of resonation, loosen the fan screws a bit.
resonance could be a problem, where the entire tower starts vibrating subtly.
I would prefer to keep all supplied functionality, ie to have my cake and eat it!
ie use all PSU sockets, and keep all 8 silicone corners of the fan.
what I may do is initially not use the lowest row of power sockets, then if and when I run out of sockets to try to shunt the fan under the HDD cage. that way I can initially have my cake and eat it!
if I dont use the lowest row, I have available 3 lots of 3x2 sockets, and 7 lots of 4x2's
with the lowest row, the leftmost 3x2 and the rightmost 4x2 are the most obstructed because of the silicon corners of the fan. the upper corners can be removed without affecting resonance mitigation,
ie I have a first tier of unproblematic 3 x [3x2] + 7 x[4x2] sockets
then a 2nd more problematic tier of 2 x[3x2] + 3 x [4x2] sockets
and then a final most problematic 3rd tier of 1 x[3x2] + 1 x [4x2] sockets
how many sockets do I need for the system as described in the original posting?
in addition, I have maybe 2 or 3 SATA SDD drives and a SATA bluray writer drive, and that is more or less all the hardware. other hardware is via USB which is an unrelated problem eg an A3 scanner via USB2, a 35mm film scanner via USB2 which is normally stored away when not used.
I may shunt the data on the SATA SDD's to one new SDD, as SATA drives are much cheaper now than when I bought them, in that era 250Gig was the max affordable price, I bought 500Gig drives only for technical reasons, to clone a magnetic 250Gig system drive to and ensure it fitted as different 250Gig drives are in fact different sizes, they are just approx 250Gig. today they are more or less giving these away for free in cornflakes boxes!
would it be any use to use just one 120mm fan for the base of the tower? or does that defeat the objective of making the machine quieter? where the other 6 are all 140mm
the thing is I want to see if it can be made quiet enough where I can use it in the same room!
currently the 2010 PC is not in the same room because it makes continual sound which I cannot work with, but it was much worse when I had magnetic drives.
For optical cables?
Common ones that you can buy, range up to 100km (62 miles). After that, you'll run into attenuation and dispersion issues. To mitigate that, there are special dispersion-compensating fiber cables, that range up to 200km (124 miles).
However, if you also use optical amplifiers, then distance is essentially unlimited. E.g transatlantic internet cables, that are at the ocean bed, are also optical cables. And longest of them, at current date, is 14500km long (9009 miles).
I can maybe distance the tower to the moon! the cable would start winding round the planet like some kind of knitting ball somewhat obstructing ocean traffic!
the green blue colours look the mildest to look at. at our uni in the pre-internet era, some of the terminals were monochrome green, and some were monochrome orange.
I bought a Seiko alarm clock with yellow leds, it looks fantastic, but to avoid draining the 2 AA batteries it only displays the leds properly if you press the button.
I try to have 2 alarm clocks, because once my alarm clock batteries ran out on the day I had to catch a plane!
Any 2-pin, 3-pin and 4-pin fan will work, given that fan is intended to work with 12V. And with 4-pin fans, you don't use PWM signal to control it, but instead DC signal (voltage adjustment).
E.g my Corsair ML140 Pro LED fans are actually 4-pin PWM fans but they operate just fine with DC control method as well.
No wires/cables are connected to MoBo what-so-ever. Heck, if you can provide the fan controller the power it needs via one MOLEX connector, you don't even have to use it inside the PC.
Fan controller has 6x channel wires, 6x temp probes (all of them labeled as seen here) and one MOLEX connector for input power;
I have the ARGB LEDs in my PCs because it's nice to look at for myself and also to illuminate otherwise dark and unlit PC internals. Latter is needed, so i can keep an eye on the conditions of my hardware (e.g if CPU cooler fans or bottom/rear/top fans are still spinning). Also it indicates to me the dust buildup in my case, so i can tell when i need to service my PCs and clean the dust out of them.
in maths historically (eg say in 1700), people originally would construct specific maths objects, but with time (eg maybe by 1900) they found they could substitue one maths object for another without affecting conclusions, because to arrive at a conclusion all that mattered was what things did, not what they were!
this led to the idea of functionalism, where all that matters is what something does, not what it is.
where things are defined by what they do, you still have to construct some specific stuff, but all that matters is what it does.
with computers, for ordinary user software to work, you can use any Intel or AMD cpu after some point in time, because although they may be engineered quite differently, they are all functionally equivalent.
computing comes at the same problem from quite different directions, computer software gives one set of perspectives, and hardware another set! eg a USB3.0 socket is a functional definition.
and it is very powerful to combine the different computing perspectives with the maths perspectives.
eg to think of maths ideas as if they were computer hardware, or as if they were computer software!
people then began replacing construction based definitions by functional definitions,
eg cartesian products of sets originally were defined as A x B = { (a,b) | a element of A, b element of B}
but they then try to redefine this without mention of any construction.
something like:
AxB is an object C with functions p1 : C -> A and p2 : C-> B, where for any object D where we have any f: D -> A and g: D->B
we can factor this uniquely with h : D->C where f = p1 h and g = p2 h
the earlier specific construction works because we put h(d) = (f(d),g(d)), and show also that it is "unique" (only one way to do it). because old era AxBxE would also work, but h wouldnt be unique for any set E with more than 2 elements.
you can then show that any such C will in fact be equivalent to the old era definition.
this is university level maths, its not difficult but is not taught at school because there isnt enough time to!
this functional kind of definition allows one to dabble with ideas where there isnt an obvious construction, eg tensor products. also matrix determinants can be done this way.
with the uni courses, they do go bothways, sometimes they use the specific constructions, sometimes the functional definition. The theorems are there saying both are equivalent.
there are some who believe its nicer to not resort to coordinates as those involve arbitrary choices.
Busses have their engine at the back, so, driver can be as up front as possible, often sitting ahead of front tires. With normal passenger cars, you have engine in front of you, so, you can't sit that up front. Though, some vans have rear mounted engines and driver can also sit up front. E.g Volkswagen Type 2 (T3),
wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Type_2_(T3)
the original VW beetle was famous for having the engine at the back,
I think modern cars are streamlined front to back, but are badly streamlined left to right,
lorries are the worst, where they smack the air in all directions badly
ascii art:
lorry from all perspectives:
--------
|
|
| <--air
| this is bad
|
--------
car front to back (side view):
-------
\ this bit
\ is ok
\
-------
| this bit
| is bad
------------------
car left to right (aeriel view):
---
|
|
|
|
|
| <-- air
|
|
| this is bad
|
|
---
fighter plane from all perspectives, aeriel, side, etc:
------------
*
*
*
* <---- air
* this is good
*
*
--------------
best shape for a car would be triangular, with the driver or pilot in the leading corner of the triangle,
sealed off from the passengers so they cant distract the pilot. where the pilot can get in from either left or right. maybe with jet propulsion rather than an engine turning wheels!
While with EU lorries (aka cab-over), you're sitting on top of the engine. So, from higher sitting position, you have even better view at the front but it will create a blind spot just at the front of the vehicle (unless you have a mirror to view into blind spot).
Good old mirror + your own eyes are still better. Cameras and the like, all use electricity. If the car's ECM (aka brain) goes haywire, you can't use your fancy cameras.
My car also has rear parking sensor, that beeps when i reverse. The closer i get to the rear object, the faster it starts to beep, while producing constant noise when distance is 30cm or less. Helps in reverse parking but it also has it's flaws. The object must be in sensor range and not higher (e.g some low hanging branch) and it can't make sense of individual pole.
my car when manufactured didnt have them, but the garage installed them at the front and back.
they also could instal a camera, but they talked me out of that, but I might get one at some point!
the back ones only and always come on when you go into reverse, where the constant noise means still enough space but you should halt.
the front ones need a switch to activate them, when they will continue even after you switch off the engine, which can drain the battery.
I havent tested the up down sensitivity, but they deal with proper road structures eg bollards and other cars and walls.
in terms of sensing an individual pole, it may depend on how many sensors are installed or the thickness of the object. I havent tested say whether it will detect a broomstick.
mine are 3rd party ones, and the garage were more adept, the official peugeot dealer couldnt do these things, but this small garage could!
On 1st glance, human body seems symmetrical, but if you look closely, into fine details, then it is not. Usually ears are a bit different shape to one and another. Then, some people have slightly longer/shorter left/right leg or arm. And internally, some organs are also either more on the one side than on the another side. E.g heart, liver.
the glucose molecule and DNA molecule also are asymmetric!
but it is amazing the level of symmetry accomplished from an asymmetric substrate!
I saw a cartoon picture once of a guy with one arm with huge muscles, the other arm not, the cartoon slogan was he had only finished half of his body building course!
with the PSU, there is some confusion as regards SATA cables, it has one cable which says SATA 3.3 on it, and then a whole load of what look like SATA cables, with 4 sockets per cable, but no label.
2 photos which are in fact the identical objects, photographed from 2 different perspectives:
the manual is almost nonexistent, it certainly doesnt discuss the supplied cables.
on the matter of the PSU and fan, if just that one fan is 120mm, that would work, but I dont know if that will conflict with the other selection principles, eg low noise, low heat.
I will have another study of the problem later tonight, and provisionally wont use that lowest row of sockets.
I think you are able to easily use all PSU power sockets while also keeping the bottom intake fan. But that requires for you to mount the fan under HDD cage.
Now, i studied your pics and you can move the fan further under HDD cage but since at the very end, there are no 140mm screw slits, only 120mm ones, you'd end up fastening the fan with 2 screws.
Some image editing;
Legend:
Blue - fan frame
Red - screw mounting positions
Yellow - possible screw mounting holes for 140mm fan (can't tell quite accurately from the pic)
I decided maybe this was the thing to do, then realised that the screw holes are a problem.
then I had a major brainwave: doesnt need any screws! but can be pressed in place by the HDD cage, AND to try and keep all 8 silicon corner covers. No guarantee this would work, but it did, AND major work to do this.
I wont document the failed ideas, even though those led to the eventual MO which works.
first thing is to remove the HDD cages, but then to also remove the base which is held in place by 2 thumbscrews at the outer edge, and metal slots at the back, see this photo:
with this photo, (1) is the cover of the base, at the front it is held in place by the 2 thumbscrews (2) and (3), and it slots in at the back at (4) and (5). these 5 items are where some nightmares happen!
what I had to do requires a very specific install sequence, which I learnt by repeatedly trying other sequences and then running into snags, eventually arriving at an MO that works.
it goes like this:
fully remove the 2 front fans, on the left edge of that photo.
then to place the base fan under the base cover (1), and try to partially put the base in place clamping down the fan but not properly attached yet.
then to move the lower front fan on the left edge of the photo in place, and run its power cable along the front edge of the base fan UNDER the base cover (1).
one has to turn the case around to look at (4) and (5) from the other side to try and align the metal plugs of the base cover with the slots (4) and (5).
now there is a problem with the thumbscrews that they dont stick to the screwdriver, and have a tendency to vanish under the front edge of the tower. eventually I remedied this by attaching the thumbscrew to the screwdriver with masking tape (easily removed tape used for painting things, to cover bits that shouldnt get painted such as hinges).
with the right thumbscrew taped to the screwdriver end, I then pushed the plate towards (5) and screwed in that edge, this is a bit of a performance.
then once the screw takes, to remove the masking tape and continue attaching that screw.
then same performance with the left thumbscrew.
now to slide in the lower front fan on the left edge of the photo.
where all 8 orange brown silicon corner covers are in place.
and a major trick is to ignore screw alignments, as all options involving these are highly unsatisfactory.
that base cover (1) totally holds the fan in place, its not going anywhere anytime soon!
this is some functional thinking, the function of the screws is to hold the fan in place, if the fan is held in place by some other means, job done, and no need for the screws!
it was hours of fiasco before I realised this, its the extra step needed for Aeacus's above photo annotation to work nicely.
annotated to show that there is total misalignment of the screw holes.
to get alignment causes all kinds of other problems.
this way the fan is shielded from the tower case by 4 silicon supports, and shielded from the HDD cage by 4 silicon supports, which should nullify any resonance vibrations.
en route, I attached and detached the PSU more times than I can remember, with successive failed ideas,
reinstalling the HDD cage was very tricky, because the fan underneath bulges the HDD cage upwards, and it requires force to align the screw holes for the HDD cage thumbscrews, namely the upper 2 and the lower 2.
as explained above, I have now done this, but I needed to abandon the idea of attaching with screws, I then had much more liberty, but the HDD cage needs to rest on 4 silicon corners to get full damping.
As of silicone corner pieces, these aren't required per se. Noctua has added them to dampen the vibrations fan may cause (e.g resonates with PC case). But to get rid of resonation, loosen the fan screws a bit.
I have now managed it with all 8 silicon corners in place, and the main question is whether there is enough gangway ABOVE the fan for the airflow?
it was a mistake to install the front fans before the base fan, its best to start with none of the 3 fans, namely 2 front fans and base fan, and to remove the HDD cage fully, and remove the base cover (1),
then to place the base cover covering the base fan and try to get this right, which is a major performance, where its best to look at the tower from the other side, as the only way to align the metal plugs of the base cover with the slots (4) and (5), the metal plugs are below the top surface, so cannot be seen from the front.
and even when you see the metal plugs from the other side, the work isnt done, the base cover has to be pushed with some force at the same time because the fan pushes back the cover from being pushed in place, as screwing in a thumbscrew which also must be taped to the screwdriver as not magnetised. if you dont, the screw will drop out and get stuck under the front edge of the tower case!
ALSO reinstalling the HDD cage above the base, is more problematic than when no fan under the cage, as the base bulges out because of the resistance of the fan which makes the thumbscrew holes no longer align, and this requires major force to align them whilst at the same time screwing in the thumbscrews.
further important point: its not viable to slide the fan under the installed HDD cage, especially if you want to keep all 8 silicon corners. the only way is to place the fan under the base (1) and to attach the base with the fan already under it, not viable to slide it under afterwards.
and positioning the fan is a total nightmare if you wish to screw it in, and all screwpoints are unsatisfactory, impossible to get more than 2 screwpoints, and these will always be at the 2 slots marked with the red circle in the photo. impossible to attach at all on the right, eg the holes marked in yellow are too small a radius!
but if you just clamp the fan in place, then you can somehow wing it to something that works, where the only constraint is all 4 upper silicon corners are sat on by the base cover (1). you then get optimal damping.
one off topic photo: the Seiko alarm clock with yellow leds, but those only show for some seconds when you press the elongated button at the top.
Since HDD cage base plate is solid metal, it will effectively block off all the airflow from the bottom intake fan. Also, if the HDD cage base plate is essentially resting ontop of silicone fan corners, it would leave, what... 1-2mm space between the fan frame and HDD cage base plate? This is way too little.
Now, if the HDD cage base plate would have holes in it, preferably grille, it would let the air pass through it and it wouldn't be an issue.
With this, there are 3 options:
1. Drill holes into that metal HDD cage base plate, so that some air can pass through it and won't be completely blocked off (don't drill holes into plastic part of it, since that plastic frame is needed to hold HDD cages in place).
2. Move the fan towards PSU, so, at least 50% of the fan would be unobstructed by HDD cage base plate (preferably the less obstruction - the better).
3. Don't use bottom intake fan at all.
4th option would be mounting the 140mm fan close to PSU, but since that will block off entire row of PSU connectors - this is not a valid solution.
All 3 options have drawbacks;
#1 Unsure how willing you are drilling holes into HDD cage base plate. And can't drill holes too close to each other as well, since you'd be weakening the structural integrity of the HDD cage base plate, whereby it would end up too weak to hold up the HDD cages and drives in it.
#2 Perhaps the least bad option. But depending on how close you move the fan to a PSU, you may run into blocking off 3rd row of PSU connectors.
#3 Removing one of the three intake fans will move your build airflow to negative pressure. Even when you run the two front intake fans at full tilt (2000 RPM), while keeping the 4x exhaust fans at ~1000 RPM, you'd still have negative pressure since CPU cooler also acts as exhaust. Now, on cooling aspect, negative pressure is good, but you just need to be mindful about dust and perhaps clean PC internals a bit more often than with neutral/positive pressure.
Tricky situation.
Personally, i'd do the #2 option, since it would be the best compromise. Downside is that when you move the fan 1/2 (half-way) or 3/4 towards PSU, you can't use screws to fasten the fan since screw slits won't align with fan screw holes. Whereby HDD cage base plate would hold the fan down from two corners. But at least it would give you bottom intake and most of the fan won't be blocked off by HDD cage base plate either.
on the matter of the PSU and fan, if just that one fan is 120mm, that would work, but I dont know if that will conflict with the other selection principles, eg low noise, low heat.
120mm bottom intake fan can actually work, and well as well. E.g both of my builds (Skylake and Haswell) have 120mm fan as bottom intake since neither of the PC cases i have support 140mm fan as bottom intake, only 120mm fan.
Noise wise, you can define the fan RPM, depending where you connect it. If directly to MoBo, then control it from BIOS.
Let's see;
1x 24-pin ATX for MoBo, uses up both M/B connectors on top row of your PSU.
2x 4/8-pin EPS for CPU, uses up two 8-pin (2x4) CPU/PCI-E connectors on PSU.
1x 12VHPWR for GPU, uses up one 16-pin 12VHPWR connector on PSU. (One in middle row, one in bottom row.)
Optional:
1x 6-pin PCI-E to power USB port for 60W for fast charging (PD_PWR1 connector on MoBo, description on page 46), uses one 8-pin (2x4) CPU/PCI-E connector.
1x SATA to power up to 4x 2.5" SSD/3.5" HDDs, uses one 6-pin IDE/SATA/MOLEX connector.
Depending on how many 2.5" SSD/3.5" HDDs you plan to power, SATA power cable count can go up, but one cable can power up to 4 drives (since it has 4 connectors).
This is very much a possibility. Days where PCs were loud as leaf blowers are over. Current day PCs, when configured right, can be essentially noiseless. Some noise still remains since PCs need active cooling and moving air creates some noise.
My fan controller is single unit, where temp probes come out of the back of it. But since all the wires aren't soldered to PCB, but instead use the plug and connector method, you can remove those you don't need.
Gave a look into my pic gallery and i do have a pic of my Tt Commander F6 RGB with all it's cables in view, prior of me installing it:
the green blue colours look the mildest to look at. at our uni in the pre-internet era, some of the terminals were monochrome green, and some were monochrome orange.
E.g my Skylake build theme is black & red, hence why my fan controller LCD display is in red color. I've gotten used to it. Also, red is warm color to look at.
My missus'es PC build theme is black & blue and her fan controller, NZXT Sentry 3, has mainly blue colors on the touchscreen. Of course, that color can't be changed. But since it has blue accents, it is also one of the reasons why i bought NZXT Senty 3 for her (she loves blue color). But blue color is cold to look at.
best shape for a car would be triangular, with the driver or pilot in the leading corner of the triangle,
sealed off from the passengers so they cant distract the pilot. where the pilot can get in from either left or right. maybe with jet propulsion rather than an engine turning wheels!
Regarding air resistance (or airflow around object), best shape isn't not triangular, but instead oval. Airflow doesn't like sharp edges, since it creates turbulence. But smooth, round edges are the best, since it lets air to flow around it without creating turbulence.
EU lorries are brick shaped due to the limitations on how long entire truck can be. Due to that, in EU, it is wasteful to put the engine ahead of the driver, like it is in USA. Brick shape is terrible in terms of air resistance but the 2,5-3m saved from the front of the truck means more cargo space in the trailer. And that matters a lot.
In USA, only the trailer length is regulated, and not the entire length of a truck. Due to that, USA trucks can have engine in front and are more aerodynamic and fuel efficent due to that. Heck, you can even have elongated wheelbase for the tractor unit, which looks way too ugly for me, but drivers say that longer wheelbase for tractor unit improves ride comfort.
Elongated wheelbase tractor unit:
I just can't stand the elongated wheelbase tractor units. They look ugly, they have loads of useless space in there. Like, why? Also, they are pain to turn around the corner due to elongated wheelbase.
in terms of sensing an individual pole, it may depend on how many sensors are installed or the thickness of the object. I havent tested say whether it will detect a broomstick.
mine are 3rd party ones, and the garage were more adept, the official peugeot dealer couldnt do these things, but this small garage could!
this is the thing that visualisation and imagination have limits!
when you do stuff for real, further technicalities emerge inescapably which werent visualised!
Nikola Tesla is said to have had very precise visual imagination, where he could remember a lot of his inventions visually.
apparently his mother taught him how to develop his imagination, but we dont know what she taught him! He was serbian from a place now in Croatia, approx aged 24 he was in Prague, then a year later Budapest, then another year later in Paris for Edison, then 2 years later emigrated to the US working for Edison.
this is completely off topic but OMD did a song called "Tesla girls", I dont give a youtube URL to prevent the off topic stuff proliferating! I havent heard the song since the early 1980s but I remember it lucidly!
Since HDD cage base plate is solid metal, it will effectively block off all the airflow from the bottom intake fan. Also, if the HDD cage base plate is essentially resting ontop of silicone fan corners, it would leave, what... 1-2mm space between the fan frame and HDD cage base plate? This is way too little.
Now, if the HDD cage base plate would have holes in it, preferably grille, it would let the air pass through it and it wouldn't be an issue.
With this, there are 3 options:
1. Drill holes into that metal HDD cage base plate, so that some air can pass through it and won't be completely blocked off (don't drill holes into plastic part of it, since that plastic frame is needed to hold HDD cages in place).
what I can do is just remove the base plate and the entire HDD cage, which then creates major airspace above the base fan and the lower front fan, although there is the problem of how to hold the base fan in place: I can hold it in place with the 2 screws on the PSU side, and nothing on the other side, but maybe I can loop some wires.
the HDD cages in fact can be held in place from the upper support as there are support rails at the top and thumbscrews at the top. this should support the weight, but you can move the cages left and right somewhat. I dont know if the air current would rock the cages?
the lower cage attaches to the upper cage via further rails. thus if both cages are attached without base plate, the lowest one will rock a bigger distance.
The SDD supports are unaffected as they are on a backplate independent of the HDD cages.
because my old era drives are all enclosed in external USB enclosures, and usually disconnected, only switched on for archiving. in order to minimise wear and tear, and also no power usage when not necessary. When I do use them, I then switch on the transformer of the USB enclosure and connect the USB cable to the hub. with the new 10 hub, I can keep some permanently attached with the power off.
those USB enclosures are mostly USB2 enclosures, because my 2010 PC didnt have USB3 until I recently installed a USB3 card. I only bought USB3 enclosures when the shop had run out of USB2 ones.
but I could rehouse all to USB3 enclosures, and presumably those would give me the full speeds?
the drives themselves are SATA drives, Western Digital "WD Blue", 2TB, SATA 6Gb/s, WD20EZBX
I bought a batch of 6 factory sealed ones in case they got discontinued,
I dont have a problem with just connecting them to the USB3 hub on the few times a year when I access them.
to be honest I might migrate all that data to smaller lighter faster cheaper quieter lower wattage modern SDDs and then mothball them, eg I got this tiny USB3 2T drive for my new laptop, which is approx 8.5cm x 5.5cm x 0.8cm, "Samsung Portable SSD T7", whereas the WD Blue's are colossal. but that specific one was expensive, but I think prices keep dropping.
maybe those wider bays at the front are more useful, eg my 3D bluray writer looks like 5.75" width.
since you'd be weakening the structural integrity of the HDD cage base plate, whereby it would end up too weak to hold up the HDD cages and drives in it.
the structural integrity isnt a problem in terms of supporting as the base plate is strong metal, where the support is in fact via the plastic rails, so a huge zone could be cut out, eg a big inner rectangle could be removed.
in fact you can support both cages from the top rails and thumbscrews with the entire base plate removed!
but the cages will rock left to right, I cannot gauge that right now as I have to remove the base plate to do that, but I can gauge if just the upper cage is there,
I did try this when the base plate was removed, and no problem supporting a fair weight from the top rails.
the base plate is only necessary to prevent left right rocking.
now if I were to cut it, the question is what equipment?
alternatively I could try to find some workshop to do it for me,
I am sure when driving in recent weeks I saw a firm which said they do metalwork, but can I remember where I saw that!
I keep notes of every car journey I do, so I can check that to think which journey it might have been!
but I want to first consider options which dont involve irreversible modifications!
eg the removal of the entire base plate and HDD cages, and also if I just dont use the lowest row of PSU sockets,
eg if I opt out of the lowest row of PSU sockets, I can then keep the HDD cages as intended by Phantek.
#3 Removing one of the three intake fans will move your build airflow to negative pressure. Even when you run the two front intake fans at full tilt (2000 RPM), while keeping the 4x exhaust fans at ~1000 RPM, you'd still have negative pressure since CPU cooler also acts as exhaust. Now, on cooling aspect, negative pressure is good, but you just need to be mindful about dust and perhaps clean PC internals a bit more often than with neutral/positive pressure.
Tricky situation.
Personally, i'd do the #2 option, since it would be the best compromise. Downside is that when you move the fan 1/2 (half-way) or 3/4 towards PSU, you can't use screws to fasten the fan since screw slits won't align with fan screw holes. Whereby HDD cage base plate would hold the fan down from two corners. But at least it would give you bottom intake and most of the fan won't be blocked off by HDD cage base plate either.
120mm bottom intake fan can actually work, and well as well. E.g both of my builds (Skylake and Haswell) have 120mm fan as bottom intake since neither of the PC cases i have support 140mm fan as bottom intake, only 120mm fan.
what is the best 120mm fan then to conform with the original plan of minimal noise and heat in the earlier topic?
where your idea was that several 140mm Noctua fans could deal with ordinary usage at a lower rpm, where the total noise much lower than other options, based on counting decibels. each doubling is 1 decibel, so I think 2 machines at 90decibels is 91decibels, and 4 machines would be 92 decibels. so even 1 decibel lower is a major improvement.
is there a Noctua one to go for? or is some other firm more optimal for 120mm?
disregard price initially,
the other thing is whether the screw holes locations for a 120mm one will be problematic.
the only option is the slots and the larger holes, at least for the 140mm Noctua's screws, these wont fit in the smaller holes, and the large hexagonal holes are too big.
measuring the distance between the centres of the installed screws, the 140mm Noctua's screw holes appear to be 12.5cm apart, how far apart are the 120mm Noctua ones?
my guess is 12.5cm - (14cm-12cm) = 10.5cm, but I need the actual distance!
are the 120mm Noctua screws identical to the 140mm Noctua's?
more generally are fan screws all the same standard?
Noise wise, you can define the fan RPM, depending where you connect it. If directly to MoBo, then control it from BIOS.
Let's see;
1x 24-pin ATX for MoBo, uses up both M/B connectors on top row of your PSU.
2x 4/8-pin EPS for CPU, uses up two 8-pin (2x4) CPU/PCI-E connectors on PSU.
1x 12VHPWR for GPU, uses up one 16-pin 12VHPWR connector on PSU. (One in middle row, one in bottom row.)
when you say "one in middle row, one in bottom row", do you mean "or" or "and"?
are you saying the 16 pin can be done via the middle row, or alternatively by the bottom row,
or are you saying it will use up both rows, eg one socket in the middle row and maybe the socket under that in the bottom row?
and why cant it be used by the top row, or is that the CPU one?
Optional:
1x 6-pin PCI-E to power USB port for 60W for fast charging (PD_PWR1 connector on MoBo, description on page 46), uses one 8-pin (2x4) CPU/PCI-E connector.
Depending on how many 2.5" SSD/3.5" HDDs you plan to power, SATA power cable count can go up, but one cable can power up to 4 drives (since it has 4 connectors).
could there be a problem also of distances? as those SATA power sockets are kind of daisy chained, you'd need successive SATA devices not too far apart.
These 4 connectors per cable are standard SATA power cables. While having all three power rails: +12V, +5V and +3.3V.
This is very much a possibility. Days where PCs were loud as leaf blowers are over. Current day PCs, when configured right, can be essentially noiseless. Some noise still remains since PCs need active cooling and moving air creates some noise.
My fan controller is single unit, where temp probes come out of the back of it. But since all the wires aren't soldered to PCB, but instead use the plug and connector method, you can remove those you don't need.
Gave a look into my pic gallery and i do have a pic of my Tt Commander F6 RGB with all it's cables in view, prior of me installing it:
there appear to be 2 kinds of wires, those on the right which look like temperature probes,
and then a different kind of cable on the left, which I cannot identify.
what are the 2 lengths? and can these wires be extended or replaced by longer ones?
eg are the temperature probes standard or are they proprietory for this manufacturer?
presumably I could tailor a cardboard box to house the main unit?
for selling on ebay, I often tailor boxes out of bigger boxes!
E.g my Skylake build theme is black & red, hence why my fan controller LCD display is in red color. I've gotten used to it. Also, red is warm color to look at.
My missus'es PC build theme is black & blue and her fan controller, NZXT Sentry 3, has mainly blue colors on the touchscreen. Of course, that color can't be changed. But since it has blue accents, it is also one of the reasons why i bought NZXT Senty 3 for her (she loves blue color). But blue color is cold to look at.
grey arguably is the most relaxing, because it stimulates red, green, blue cones and rods of the retina equally.
eg when lcds first emerged, approx 1978, we thought they were black magic, and so effortless to look at.
the first one I saw was either a Seiko or a Citizen, and that was top end consumer technology at that time, where one of my dad's colleagues had one. And these were being advertised in Newsweek magazine.
the other innovation around that time at the consumer level was quartz crystal precision timing.
I think my cheap swiss wind up watch would gain 1 minute per day, but a year later my Casio lcd watch was no more than 1 second per day inaccuracy. My dad had a self winding Citizen watch, which was much more accurate than my cheap swiss wind up.
the self winding one winds itself up from whenever you move your arm during a day. whereas my watch I had to wind up every day otherwise it would eventually stop! I still have that watch and got it repaired a few years ago, where they had to send it to Switzerland. I wanted to mothball it in working condition.
before lcd it was generally blue-green leds eg the Casio calculators, or red, eg the HP calculators.
within months my mum had bought an lcd calculator I think by Toshiba, and within a year, I had a Casio lcd watch and everything now was lcd.
in those days the designs of things were really nice with high quality plastic, where each item had real character. but today everything is matter of fact and characterless.
Regarding air resistance (or airflow around object), best shape isn't not triangular, but instead oval. Airflow doesn't like sharp edges, since it creates turbulence. But smooth, round edges are the best, since it lets air to flow around it without creating turbulence.
EU lorries are brick shaped due to the limitations on how long entire truck can be. Due to that, in EU, it is wasteful to put the engine ahead of the driver, like it is in USA. Brick shape is terrible in terms of air resistance but the 2,5-3m saved from the front of the truck means more cargo space in the trailer. And that matters a lot.
if you drive at say 70mph, and put one hand out the window, if you place the hand facing the air flow, you can feel the air resistance majorly, whereas if you place the hand parallel to the road, much less resistance!
I think a horizontal plane at the back also causes turbulence.
at uni, there was a course on fluid dynamics, but it was for incompressible fluids, eg liquids, I didnt do the course as it was a very difficult course and I was already doing enough difficult courses! compressible fluids eg gases I think are even trickier.
with boats, the front end is never flat on like a lorry.
air speeds shouldnt be underestimated, if there are strong winds, if I drive at 70mph the car starts getting pushed aside by the combined velocity, so I generally wont drive above 60 in such weather.
although the UK went metric last century, speed limits are all in mph!
if you want to fit a huge amount of cargo, best to use a freight train!
once in London at a railstation, this freight train went by loaded with 4WDs, carriage after carriage of 4WDs, that visually proved who is the king of heavy loads! it is trains!
on Google I found this photo of a freight train carrying cars:
ships of course are the next level, eg the titanic, and planes can be impressive, eg jumbo jets (76m) and DC10s for passengers. I didnt realise how huge jumbo jets were, until one day flying by a small propellor plane from I think Gatwick, the runway bus took us further away to the smaller planes, driving past the entire length of a jumbo, and it is colossal.
In USA, only the trailer length is regulated, and not the entire length of a truck. Due to that, USA trucks can have engine in front and are more aerodynamic and fuel efficent due to that. Heck, you can even have elongated wheelbase for the tractor unit, which looks way too ugly for me, but drivers say that longer wheelbase for tractor unit improves ride comfort.
longer and wider and lower lead to more stability. its like the trick with tightrope walking is a longer balancing stick, as the "centre" of the system is mainly decided by the balancing stick and not the person. if you get the centre under a support, it becomes really stable.
I havent verified this but some of the US military vehicles appear to have the wheels further apart, and are set lower:
with trains, if the rails are set further apart it is more stable. british trains use a different distance from continental ones. probably the continental ones are wider, which is a better system.
the military and the police dont follow the normal rules. I think the police cars have bigger fuel tanks, so they can outfuel a consumer car, where they keep chasing the consumer car until it runs out of fuel, the police car has plenty more fuel!
I just can't stand the elongated wheelbase tractor units. They look ugly, they have loads of useless space in there. Like, why? Also, they are pain to turn around the corner due to elongated wheelbase.
Mine are factory default and i have 2 sensors on the back bumper.
aha, that could be part of the problem, looking at cars the other day, some have 4 sensors, but that could be at the front.
if you just have 2, there could be problems if an object is at the furthest distance from any.
you need to find a garage who can maybe fit custom ones. you need to declare all modifications on your insurance form, that way if you make a claim, the insurance company have to reinstate the modifications also!
I'll check later how many were fitted by the garage for my car.
I tried them, there is maybe 1cm of leeway front to back, but if I replaced them with a smaller size they might be too small, but they feel alright. I'll wear them when handling the mobo. for the tower case, fans and PSU, I just go barefoot.
The company blurb says it is meant for case cooling rather than CPU/GPU or heavy workloads. It is also silent.
Also, it is not absurd to connect a phone to the PC case and charge it. You can transfer files and charge the phone. Fast charging requires a new kind of fancy pants port that PSUs can supply the power to, so why not?
The company blurb says it is meant for case cooling rather than CPU/GPU or heavy workloads. It is also silent.
Also, it is not absurd to connect a phone to the PC case and charge it. You can transfer files and charge the phone. Fast charging requires a new kind of fancy pants port that PSUs can supply the power to, so why not?
but I can transfer files using an ordinary USB3 socket, also the main stuff I transfer from my phone is photos, which arent many as I take my main photos with an SLR camera. I also every few months backup everything with the Android Vibosoft software, which allows me to backup all my texts ever as an html file per contact where its much faster to locate any text as html files than via the phone. eg I was buying a lot of collector items from one guy, where I have something like 3000 texts over maybe 2 years, and I can search the lot on the PC for any keyword. whereas with the smartphone it takes 10 years to load the earliest ones! 3000 sounds a lot, but that is maybe 5 a day. where we were discussing many items for sale.
and in fact I use Vibosoft via wireless, where I run the Vibosoft software on my PC, and run it on my smartphone, then the smartphone Vibosoft photos the QR code of the PC Vibosoft, and now I can transfer all my photos, apps, texts, etc effortlessly to the PC without cable, and no dongle needed, as it does this via the modem.
I am wary of fast charging, maybe the technology has improved, but generally the slower the charging the better.
I think the problem with fast charging is you are sending a surge of electrons, which might swamp the chemicals,
its like with frying some potato slices, if you fry at too high a setting, the heat is supplied faster than it spreads through the food, leading to the outer part of the potatoes being overcooked, and the inner part undercooked. where the outer can be burnt, and the inner uncooked. to fry optimally needs a lower temperature and will easily take 20 minutes.
french fries arent as tasty as old era chips because french fries maximise heat to minimise time, ie are fast frying, old era chips will take at least 15 minutes to fry, and are thicker eg could be 1.3cm thick, depends on the venue, and 10x tastier. the french fries are thinner because the heat inertia will not cook the inner chip in that timescale. no matter how much temperature you apply, the heat only flows at a fixed speed which is relatively slow, which is why if you boiled say some carrot pieces for 1 minute, they will still be crunchy. net effect is french fries are a bit bland, and the inner is only just cooked enough. easily needs another 8 minutes to become tasty.
you can tell the quality of a food outlet by how long it takes for the food to be prepared, for top quality it should take maybe 30 minutes, where you eat your starter whilst you wait. A top quality place will cook food from fresh ingredients, but I draw the line at starting with live animals as that is psychologically disgusting!
if the food is served too quickly, it was either pre cooked, in which case it will have lost the more subtle aromas and taste or it was cooked at too high a temperature and wont be evenly cooked. with fried food, the moment you keep the food, the oil starts deteriorating.
with fast food outlets, you can scald your tongue with the fries as they superheat them to cook faster, which also isnt good for the nutrients. boiling is the healthiest way to cook food as it limits the temperature to 100°C. oven cooking tastes nicer but its not as healthy, as the temperature could be 200°C which will damage nutrient molecules.
with fish and chip shops I always ask for nonstandard haddock, because less demand so they have to cook it fresh. with cod, they will have some pre cooked ones kept hot on a metal stand, which wont taste as fresh! they then say "you will have to wait 15 minutes", which I will wait for.
what I am saying is charging a battery is essentially frying it with electrons!
rather than fast charging, I would much prefer to have replaceable batteries, then I can slow charge 5 of them, and then any time a battery runs low, instantly replace it. and slow charging 5 is equivalent to fast charging 1 at 5x speed!
with EV cars, that would be a better scheme, where you have battery exchange stations, where you just instantly swap your empty battery for a full one, where the station ongoingly recharges the empty ones.
with my Dyson I have 2 batteries, with 1 always fully charged, with my camera also, 2 batteries one always fully charged.
built in batteries are a stupid idea. the best batteries ever designed are the AA batteries, the compartments also dont wear out, namely just metal plate and spring. smartphone batteries have complex contacts, and the contacts wear out.
slow charging isnt a problem if you have replaceable batteries as you can just slow charge several once a week whilst sleeping.
the sleeping is itself a kind of slow recharging of the brain! 8 hour recharging!
the potential risk with fast charging is the more remote parts of the chemicals will be undercharged.
the original reason why not is Aeacus comment that it eats up another PSU socket, and is then further system heat, fast charging will be hotter, 60Watts according to him:
1x 6-pin PCI-E to power USB port for 60W for fast charging (PD_PWR1 connector on MoBo, description on page 46), uses one 8-pin (2x4) CPU/PCI-E connector.
my comprehension of 60Watts, is an old era standard lightbulb, and these get seriously hot!
that heat then needs a fan, which then may cause an increase of noise!
anyway, those are my main arguments:
1. I need to boot up the PC just to charge a phone
2. fast charging could cause uneven charging, which then means the charge wont last as long
3. 60Watts of extra heat, which might manifest as fan noise
the fast charging could also potentially wear out the battery faster, in general heavier loads wear things out faster.
another problem is what if you have 2 phones? presumably you can only fast charge one at a time. you now have to go old school anyway. or the technology changes to "even faster" charging, which is 120Watts, and you have to buy another PC or PSU. then they release "even faster v2.0" charging, which is 240Watts.
in the UK now, all the power socket extenders (ie splitters), now have USB power sockets on them, that is a better MO.
To house 3.5" HDDs. 3x per cage and since you have two cages, then 6x in total. Same space can be used to house 2.5" SSDs as well. Again, 3 per cage and 6 in total.
If you'd run your fans at full tilt - maybe. But if you have 3.5" HDDs populating the HDD cages, it adds weight to them and it would be unlikely.
But if you don't need to use HDD cages to house 3.5" HDDs or 2.5" SSDs in them, then you can remove one or both HDD cages, giving your bottom intake fan good clearance in terms of airflow. Front intake fans would benefit from it as well.
NEVER use any power cable splitters. Only use those power cables that came with the PSU. Else-ways, you can end up overloading the power cable that can (and most likely will) lead to cable melting, short circuit and catching fire.
I guess you don't have power drill with drill bit to drill holes into metal, at home? (I have, bought complete set when moved to new home, since you'll never know when you may need it. And i've needed my Makita battery powered power drill since then quite a bit. I have a complete set of concrete, metal and wood drill bits, in varying sizes.)
Overall, it is easy to do. Locate any metalworker and describe your issue to them. It is easy to fasten the metal plate to a bench vice, take out the drill and drill some holes into it. Far better than trying to cut out a section, since depending on method, either welding or angle grinder can be used. Also, no point to cut out a piece from dead center, since under that would be the fan motor hub, with little to 0 airflow. Instead, you'd want holes where the fan blades are, and not in the dead center of that plate.
I advise against that since installed PSU helps to increase PC case structural integrity. Also, when you'd slide the PSU out a bit, have you considered that the PSU cooling fan also moves outwards, whereby you could be partially blocking off the PSU fan (since you've mounted the PSU fan facing downwards)?
With NF-S12B 1200 RPM Noctua fan, issue is that when you need more airflow from it, you can't, since it only spins up to 1200 RPM. In that sense, NF-F12 industrial 2000 RPM fan is better, because it offers you the wider RPM range and in turn, more cooling when you need it.
Also, NF-S12B is airflow fan and terrible at static pressure. Just look how big of a caps there are between fan blades. NF-F12 has small gaps with wide fan blades, offering far better static pressure (or in a nutshell, better efficiency in terms of moving air).
It would be easier to keep in mind that all your case fans can go up to 2000 RPM, rather than having different max RPM fans in your PC and trying to remember which one of them is the 1200 RPM and which ones are 2000 RPM.
Thus far, i've seen fan screws to be standard. Of course, there are different screws when you have AIO and need to mount a radiator, but this doesn't concern you since you don't have AIO cooler.
Here's the pic of your PSU connectors, oriented in the way as you've installed the PSU in the PC case;
(Gives better visual over PSU connectors than your ASCII art. )
As you can see, 16-pin connectors are located in the middle row and on the bottom row. Upper row contains MoBo 24-pin cable sockets and 3x CPU/PCI-E slots.
Yes, it is to charge your smart phone. Some people like to charge their phones from the power from the PC. I prefer the old school way, with adapter and plug it directly to the mains.
Could be. The small distance between peripheral power connectors have been an issue for a long time, yet, PSU manufacturers have done little, if any, to solve that issue.
In this case, you can use dedicated cable power for both of the external drives if you like.
3.3V rail in SATA cable is more like lingering and obsolete feature.
3.5" HDDs need 12V and 5V to operate while 2.5" SSDs/HDDs operate at 5V.
3.3V drives are now almost unheard of. Some old SATA 1 drives may use 3.3V for operation.
there appear to be 2 kinds of wires, those on the right which look like temperature probes,
and then a different kind of cable on the left, which I cannot identify.
Bundle of cables on the right are temperature probes. In the middle, there is MOLEX cable for power and bundle of cables on the left are channel cables to be connected to a fan.
what are the 2 lengths? and can these wires be extended or replaced by longer ones?
eg are the temperature probes standard or are they proprietory for this manufacturer?
I have 0 clue what the cable lengths are since i didn't measure them when i installed the fan controller. And i can't measure them now either, since i have the fan controller installed with proper cable management inside my PC.
Since all cables are socketed to the PCB of fan controller, you can replace them with longer ones. Fan cables (channel cables) should be standard ones. Same with temp probes, since one temp probe is just 2 wires. Only MOLEX connector to the PCB may have proprietary connector. But because i didn't take any of the connectors apart, i don't know exactly.
I think we're tripping over details with the whole fast charging thing.
It's the name of a new technology that instead of taking 7-8 hours to charge a phone, does it in 1.5-2
As for using a computer to charge a phone, yes if it's running anyway. I have a PSU and a USB-C port handy so why not use that? There aren't too many USB-C ports lying around.
It doesn't take up any cables from the PSU itself either. The port is connected to the motherboard and draws power through the motherboard.
Fast charging/Phnoe charging is a side-effect of a USB-C port already being there. It would be silly if a PC couldn't charge a phone. Even if that is not it's primary purpose.
JUSB2 is: USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 20Gbps Type-C front panel Connector
MoBo also has JUSB1, which is: USB 3.2 Gen 2 10Gbps Type-C front panel Connector
On the rear I/O panel, there are two more USB type-C ports;
* USB 3.2 Gen 2 10Gbps Type-C port (From CPU) ∙ Support DisplayPort 1.4 with HBR3
* USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 20Gbps Type-C port (From X670 chipset)
But holy bible of PCs doesn't state the wattage limit of these ports.
Just because USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 is capable of up to 100W of charging power, doesn't instantly mean it is so always. After all, 100W of charging power comes down to host device (in this case, MoBo).
Fast charging/Phnoe charging is a side-effect of a USB-C port already being there. It would be silly if a PC couldn't charge a phone. Even if that is not it's primary purpose.
Same here. It's just that he said it's absurd to use a PC to charge a phone, and i think it would be absurd if PCs were not able to charge phones. Whether someone wants to use that or not is up to individual choice. PCs are multifunctional and modular.
before the replies, I had a look at another idea which is to fit the fan outside the box, ie under the base rather than above, there could be 6mm of leeway, but the problem is the base filter cannot be installed as intended. only option would be to create some structure eg from wood with the base filter even lower,
I sent emails to Phanteks, Noctua and Seasonic about the problem. only Seasonic have replied so far, just forwarding me to the manual which doesnt talk about fans. I replied back saying this, and they sent a further email.
I give my interpretation of their emails which is that the Prime TX1600 is bigger than usual PSUs and in fact is their physically largest PSU, which will be the cause of these problems.
my interpretation is that one idea is I could place the PSU the other way round, and in fact the PSU socket panel then fits perfectly in the PSU panel zone at the back of the PC!
there are 2 snags with this gameplan,
1. there are no screw holes on the socket side of the PSU,
2. the output fan points into the tower,
see these 2 photos of putting the PSU pointing the other direction:
To house 3.5" HDDs. 3x per cage and since you have two cages, then 6x in total. Same space can be used to house 2.5" SSDs as well. Again, 3 per cage and 6 in total.
I just think even the 2.5" SSDs are now obsolete. I have in any case I think 2 vertical SSD brackets on the side of the panel at the back of the HDD cage.
the 2T Samsung SSD USB3 drive I bought a year ago is much smaller. looks like 2 3/16 ", ie less than 2 1/4"
scrutinising the scenario, with the fan under the HDD cage zone and the cover plate removed, the 140mm fan can be attached by 2 screws at the PSU end.
I dont know how viable it is for the fan to be just attached along one edge like that?
But if you don't need to use HDD cages to house 3.5" HDDs or 2.5" SSDs in them, then you can remove one or both HDD cages, giving your bottom intake fan good clearance in terms of airflow. Front intake fans would benefit from it as well.
NEVER use any power cable splitters. Only use those power cables that came with the PSU. Else-ways, you can end up overloading the power cable that can (and most likely will) lead to cable melting, short circuit and catching fire.
I guess you don't have power drill with drill bit to drill holes into metal, at home? (I have, bought complete set when moved to new home, since you'll never know when you may need it. And i've needed my Makita battery powered power drill since then quite a bit. I have a complete set of concrete, metal and wood drill bits, in varying sizes.)
take out the drill and drill some holes into it. Far better than trying to cut out a section, since depending on method, either welding or angle grinder can be used. Also, no point to cut out a piece from dead center, since under that would be the fan motor hub, with little to 0 airflow.
I didnt realise that, I just imagined the centre would be the max flow, but it does make sense that the fan linear velocity is faster the further out you go from the centre, and thus should be faster airflow.
ok, I had a watch of the full video, there is quite a lot of technique. if I hadnt watched that I would have just marked a spot and begun drilling directly!
I advise against that since installed PSU helps to increase PC case structural integrity. Also, when you'd slide the PSU out a bit, have you considered that the PSU cooling fan also moves outwards, whereby you could be partially blocking off the PSU fan (since you've mounted the PSU fan facing downwards)?
With NF-S12B 1200 RPM Noctua fan, issue is that when you need more airflow from it, you can't, since it only spins up to 1200 RPM. In that sense, NF-F12 industrial 2000 RPM fan is better, because it offers you the wider RPM range and in turn, more cooling when you need it.
Also, NF-S12B is airflow fan and terrible at static pressure. Just look how big of a caps there are between fan blades. NF-F12 has small gaps with wide fan blades, offering far better static pressure (or in a nutshell, better efficiency in terms of moving air).
It would be easier to keep in mind that all your case fans can go up to 2000 RPM, rather than having different max RPM fans in your PC and trying to remember which one of them is the 1200 RPM and which ones are 2000 RPM.
yes, looks like best to get that 2000 RPM one. luckily I am not rushing any decisions.
an advantage of a 120mm one, is I think I can attach it at all 4 points.
how far apart are the screw holes on the edges of the 2000 RPM Noctua 120mm?
now one thing is, the screw slots suggest that when 2 x 120mm fans are installed, one is in fact under the HDD cage!
so maybe its ok to have the 140mm fan where it is currently, clamped under the base plate of the HDD cages.
but just because something is ok, doesnt mean it is ideal, you mention that if the HDD cages and base plate are removed, there will be much better airflow gangway for all 3 input fans.
technical question: how does the airflow of the 2000 RPM 120mm compare with the 140mm Noctua?
its only 14% smaller, maybe the vastly better airflow gangway will more than mitigate for the 120mm being maybe less airflow?
as regards dust, what is needed is maybe some kind of Dyson cyclonic dust remover where all input air to the fans is enclosed and channeled via a pipe, where some Dyson technology swirls away the dust into a collector!
Thus far, i've seen fan screws to be standard. Of course, there are different screws when you have AIO and need to mount a radiator, but this doesn't concern you since you don't have AIO cooler.
Yes.
There are two 16-pin sockets on your PSU. It doesn't matter at all which of the two you use, to power your GPU.
Here's the pic of your PSU connectors, oriented in the way as you've installed the PSU in the PC case;
(Gives better visual over PSU connectors than your ASCII art. )
As you can see, 16-pin connectors are located in the middle row and on the bottom row. Upper row contains MoBo 24-pin cable sockets and 3x CPU/PCI-E slots.
there are 2 supplied 12VHPWR cables, with sockets that look like the 12VHPWR ones in your photo, but at the other end they are two 2 x 4 sockets, with the rightmost 2 x 1 pins unused for each,
this would enable the lowest row to be avoided for the two 12VHPWR's regardless whether the PSU is installed upside down or not.
Yes, it is to charge your smart phone. Some people like to charge their phones from the power from the PC. I prefer the old school way, with adapter and plug it directly to the mains.
I just think charging a mobile phone from a PC is a physical nonsequitur!
ALSO, most people DONT use PCs, and most people DO use smartphones,
the internet only took off properly after the emergence of smartphones in 2011 with the launch of the iphone,
before that, it was only more enlightened people who used the internet.
because most people dont use PCs, they are guaranteed to arrange MOs to fast charge smartphones without needing a PC. because the people obsessed with smartphones will not have a PC.
Could be. The small distance between peripheral power connectors have been an issue for a long time, yet, PSU manufacturers have done little, if any, to solve that issue.
what would be better is to just have a power connector to one adapter, where the adapter has a SATA power socket at the front, and an extender socket at the back. you could then use an extender of the specific length you need.
they could limit the total length or number of sockets via some further unused sockets, where eg to limit to 3 consecutive extensions, you have 3 unused sockets. the first extender has 3 unused pins for these, and its extender socket has 1 socket blocked, where the next extender just has 2 unused pins, and it's extender has 2 sockets blocked off etc.
that would then enforce some limits, to prevent someone daisychaining 10 sockets!
In this case, you can use dedicated cable power for both of the external drives if you like.
3.3V rail in SATA cable is more like lingering and obsolete feature.
3.5" HDDs need 12V and 5V to operate while 2.5" SSDs/HDDs operate at 5V.
3.3V drives are now almost unheard of. Some old SATA 1 drives may use 3.3V for operation.
I have never used such, but I imagine a low end SATA of today will be vastly bigger capacity than a top end SATA 1 drive, so you might as well just clone the data to a cheap drive today and abandon using the old drive.
I first started buying hard drives approx 1997, and as the years have gone by, at certain points I have abandoned various drives by migrating the data to better technology. eg replacing magnetic drives by SSDs. eg with my laptop from 2007, I cloned the magnetic system drive to a SSD, and much better!
I bought an external SSD recently, which is so ginormous, that I could shunt all the hard drives I have ever bought to it, and still have plenty of unused storage!
and bundle of cables on the left are channel cables to be connected to a fan.
I have 0 clue what the cable lengths are since i didn't measure them when i installed the fan controller. And i can't measure them now either, since i have the fan controller installed with proper cable management inside my PC.
Since all cables are socketed to the PCB of fan controller, you can replace them with longer ones. Fan cables (channel cables) should be standard ones. Same with temp probes, since one temp probe is just 2 wires.
I checked, and the garage installed ones are both 4 sensors, see this photo where I show the photo both annotated and unannotated. the 13 in the redacted number plate means the car was manufactured in 2013.
its possible if you get such custom ones, the sensors will become more sensitive.
because the guaranteed distance to an obstacle will be much shorter. if you just have 2, then the centre or the outer extremes might be too far especially for thinner objects.
what you want maybe is 6 of them!
I have looked at other cars in town, and some have none, some have 2, some have 4.
with some things, 3rd party is far better than the car manufacturer's supplied item. eg my car's satnav doesnt show various roundabouts that were built since it was installed, which would be 2013. I bought the car second hand in 2016.
and the peugeot inbuilt satnav cannot be updated!
there was one roundabout which eventually they replaced by a very complicated crossroads, with 3 lanes per direction for one of the roads. the Peugeot satnav will show the old roundabout!
when I mentioned this to someone, he said his dad just uses an external one, either a Tomtom or a Garmin. as if to say nobody uses the inbuilt ones! so I got one, and its great.
next example: after some years, I noticed in rain, the wipers werent cleaning all the windscreen in rain. I went to the authorised Peugeot dealer, and the guy said: oh, just go to Halfords, the peugeot ones are no good. so I went to Halfords, the guy asked my number plate, then by putting the number plate in some software, he told me the specific wipers to get, which were by Bosch, and absolutely perfect!
I am completely nonexpert on cars, the garage just said they can install back sensors, or front sensors, or cameras, advising against cameras, and I opted in. as it was my first car, way too complicated to research the matter as I'd have to drive to garages etc.
according to my notes from 2016, it was £160+VAT all inclusive labour + parts for the rear sensors, £170+VAT for the front sensors, and £250 + VAT for rear view cameras. VAT=20%. I am planning to return there to ask them to install the cameras!
now when I asked the huge authorised Peugeot dealer, they couldnt do such things!
the car is unremarkable, I bought it on 2 main criteria: be able to carry longer loads internally, AND lower insurance. as regards accelerating, it is outdone by many, and outdoes many! I never try to race other drivers, as it really is pointless! eg if I outsped a stranger 2 months ago, so what?
Same here. It's just that he said it's absurd to use a PC to charge a phone, and i think it would be absurd if PCs were not able to charge phones. Whether someone wants to use that or not is up to individual choice. PCs are multifunctional and modular.
this is the "kitchen sink" approach, eg have a vacuum cleaner built into your PC, and a coffee dispenser, and a soldering iron and some binoculars and a laminator and a dog whistle and a lens grinder.
its the principle of the swiss army knife, which has a toothpick, a nail file, a scissors, a screwdriver, etc, nowadays probably a smartphone fast charger socket!
I cant find the quote but Aeacus said somewhere that perfection is when there is nothing left to remove, rather than nothing more can be added.
its just another thing to go wrong and more clutter. like with printer scanners, when the printer inevitably becomes unrepairable you have to junk the scanner.
you are also tying yourself in to a specific technology, once everyone has bought in, the technology will be deliberately made obsolete, and you'll have to use up a PCI slot if you wish to fast charge the latest iphone!
after much thought, I decided to opt for removing the HDD cages, that way plenty of airflow.
I removed the base plate, it had slightly scratched one of the structural arms but not the propellor blades.
I attached the fan with 2 screws at the PSU side, and put some masking tape at 2 other edges to hold it to the base of the case. I also found I could align the other 2 screw holes with holes on the tower case base, but too small for the screws to fix. I temporarily put a straightened huge metal paper clip through the holes to hold the fan in place.
but I then found that the edge furthest from the PSU in fact is elevated in the air, so no need for attachments, and removed the masking tape and paper clip.
photos of the scenario:
first photo shows that now plenty of space at the PSU sockets:
3rd photo shows that the fan is attached with screws at the PSU side, the position chosen so that the other 2 screw holes are aligned with holes on the tower base but which are too small for the screws. on the left the green arrow points to the limit of the PSU fan, where there is almost exactly 2cm of leeway to the left before it goes beyond the ventilation hexagons:
I think this arrangement is best, because I can do without the 3.5" cages, as I will use any 3.5" drives from USB enclosures.
this way I get to keep all seven 140mm Noctua fans, and have plenty of access to the Seasonic PSU's sockets, and there is much better airflow for the 2 front fans than Phanteks intended.
I can still suspend some 3.5" drives from the upper cage attached to the upper rails, see this photo:
I think I will take a break now, and then assess whether to breadboard.
the HDD cage rocking left and right is because the plastic rails arrangement is a bit rickety. they should have made the railing tight fitting, then it wouldnt rock. the rails on the ceiling are each attached with 1 screw, I think it is basic engineering that a stable linear attachment needs at least 2 screws! a planar attachment probably needs 3.
I had some blinds installed, where the guy forgot to put the 2nd screw, and it began rotating and became unsatisfactory.
2 screws would also halve the load at each screw. Now I am not 100% sure how I would have done it, I dont think its obvious, but what is obvious is the way they have done it is highly unsatisfactory.
and also why not just have 5 cages, to enable healthy airflow gangway above the floor fan?
with the PSU also, I think they could just jut out some of the device through the allowed area, to free up space at the connector sockets. I emailed them this idea, will see how they respond! also to put some screwholes on the socket side of the PSU so that can be at the back of the tower.
Not viable at all since power cables won't reach. Especially 24-pin ATX and maybe even 4/8-pin EPS. Also, if you put the PSU that way, then you must keep the side panel open (where you can route power cables back into the PC), which essentially beats entire point to even have any case fans at all. Since without closed side panels, there is no way to create airflow path inside the PC.
Bottom intake fan can live without it being bolted to the PC case, but that may cause fan frame rattle. So, fastening with just 1 screw should suffice. 2 screws would be even better.
there are 2 supplied 12VHPWR cables, with sockets that look like the 12VHPWR ones in your photo, but at the other end they are two 2 x 4 sockets, with the rightmost 2 x 1 pins unused for each,
this would enable the lowest row to be avoided for the two 12VHPWR's regardless whether the PSU is installed upside down or not.
What does it say on the PSU's retail box as PSU's name?
Does it say:
PRIME TX-1600
or
PRIME TX-1600 ATX 3.0
Since what i suggested to you, is "PRIME TX-1600 ATX 3.0" and the PSU connectors image i linked, is also from "PRIME TX-1600 ATX 3.0". However, it seems that you bought "PRIME TX-1600", which of course does not have dedicated 16-pin 12VHPWR connectors on PSU.
Personally, i have not seen any drives that operate at 3.3V alone. Researching why SATA cable has 3.3V rail told me that some older SATA1 drives used to operate at 3.3V, hence why it was included with SATA power cables. But for many years (even decade or so), there haven't been any SATA drives, that i know of, that operate at 3.3V.
I checked, and the garage installed ones are both 4 sensors, see this photo where I show the photo both annotated and unannotated. the 13 in the redacted number plate means the car was manufactured in 2013.
Not viable at all since power cables won't reach. Especially 24-pin ATX and maybe even 4/8-pin EPS. Also, if you put the PSU that way, then you must keep the side panel open (where you can route power cables back into the PC), which essentially beats entire point to even have any case fans at all. Since without closed side panels, there is no way to create airflow path inside the PC.
I was thinking of sending the power cables through one of the PCI slots of the back panel of the case,
are you saying the cables arent long enough for this pathway?
I bought a drive which is 3.3cm wide, 10.6cm long, 0.9cm thick, which is 64 Terabytes,
I dont see how 2.5" drives can remain viable when you can get ginormous capacity like that 1.3"
I am not saying you dont use them nor that they arent useful, I have various I use, just that the technology now is getting so advanced that 2.5" is way too big. that 64 terabyte USB3 drive will fit all the disks I have ever bought,
Bottom intake fan can live without it being bolted to the PC case, but that may cause fan frame rattle. So, fastening with just 1 screw should suffice. 2 screws would be even better.
Since what i suggested to you, is "PRIME TX-1600 ATX 3.0" and the PSU connectors image i linked, is also from "PRIME TX-1600 ATX 3.0". However, it seems that you bought "PRIME TX-1600", which of course does not have dedicated 16-pin 12VHPWR connectors on PSU.
looking at the specs, they look pretty much the same!
not having the dedicated connectors does give more flexibility as to which sockets to use eg I could avoid the lowest row whichever way the PSU is placed with the tx-1600, whereas with the tx-1600 atx3.0 the way the PSU is currently, I'd be forced to use the lowest row if I used both. no idea when I would use those leads!
but with the HDD cage removed, the lowest row is no longer problematic!
Personally, i have not seen any drives that operate at 3.3V alone. Researching why SATA cable has 3.3V rail told me that some older SATA1 drives used to operate at 3.3V, hence why it was included with SATA power cables. But for many years (even decade or so), there haven't been any SATA drives, that i know of, that operate at 3.3V.
if you have the energy to study the specifications, maybe the SATA 1 specification requires 3.3V, whereas the SATA 2 and higher might just require it for backwards compatibility, the probable terminology will be "legacy support".
some have 0, some have 2, 4 seems a better number. my car was manufactured 2013, and didnt have any originally.
its something to potentially research, whether they are all the same, or whether there is variation in quality. potentially you could have the supplied ones replaced by better ones without having to cut the car.
I think the outer circle of the sensors is to cover the cut marks!
the height of the vehicle might also matter, I think my car is much lower than the insurance replacement 4WD I used for some weeks (Nissan X-trail). I never had both vehicles at the same time so I didnt compare!
to get my own vehicle back, I handed in the X-trail, and the car hire firm then drove me to the insurance repair place to collect my car.
as mentioned, I suggest they may be obsolete, because I bought a much smaller drive which is 64 terabytes recently,
and then the M.2 drives.
right at this moment not obsolete, but I think obsolescence is imminent.
no idea how fast the 64T drive is, will benchmark it once the new PC is built. but it does say M.2 on it.
and says "supports hard disk: M.2/NGFF (2230/2242/2260/2280)".
the SATA III maybe isnt obsolete, I dont know how SATA compares with USB,
as mentioned, I suggest they may be obsolete, because I bought a much smaller drive which is 64 terabytes recently,
and then the M.2 drives.
right at this moment not obsolete, but I think obsolescence is imminent.
no idea how fast the 64T drive is, will benchmark it once the new PC is built. but it does say M.2 on it.
and says "supports hard disk: M.2/NGFF (2230/2242/2260/2280)".
the SATA III maybe isnt obsolete, I dont know how SATA compares with USB,
I was thinking of sending the power cables through one of the PCI slots of the back panel of the case,
are you saying the cables arent long enough for this pathway?
There are several issues when you swap the PSU around;
1. PSU cables aren't long enough for to be routed from outside the PC to the inside.
2. Mains power cable socket would then be inside the PC case. How do you plan to route that inside the PC case?
3. PSU will exhaust all of it's air into PC case (exhaust vents are at the back, where fan control button is).
25th June 2021 because there was a need. (Looked up my PC hardware purchase history.)
Between all 3 desktop PCs i have + including offline storage, the most i have, are 2.5" SSDs.
Skylake build:
2x M.2 NVMe SSDs (one of them is OS drive clone)
2x 2.5" SATA SSDs (data drive + data drive clone)
Haswell build:
1x M.2 NVMe SSD
2x 2.5" SATA SSDs (data drive + data drive clone)
AMD build
1x 2.5" SATA SSD
Offline storage;
1x 2.5" SATA SSD to house bootable Win7 of Skylake build (OS drive clone)
1x 2.5" SATA SSD to house bootable Win10 of Skylake build (OS drive clone)
1x 2.5" SATA SSD to house bootable Win7 of Haswell build (OS drive clone)
1x 2.5" SATA SSD to house bootable Win10 of Haswell build (OS drive clone)
4x 3.5" HDDs (WD10EZEX), two of them are data drive clones of Skylake build and other two are data drive clone of Haswell build
I have phased out the usage of 3.5" HDDs with my PCs. The ones that are remaining, are in the offline storage.
Skylake build can only have 2x M.2 NVMe SSDs, while Haswell build can have 1x M.2 NVMe SSD. AMD build has 0 support for M.2 drives. But all PCs can support 6x 2.5" SSDs or 6x 3.5" HDDs.
Compared to 3.5" HDD, 2.5" SSD is much smaller, weighs a lot less, is far more durable and reliable and doesn't output any audible noise either. Also, much faster read/write than HDD. Price wise, 2.5" SSDs are quite cheap.
Well, they are. Only diff is that PRIME TX-1600 ATX 3.0 has the two 16-pin 12VHPWR connectors, which would've been more convenient to use to power your GPU, rather than using the adapter. But other than that, both PSUs are essentially identical.
It just makes me wonder, how come you bought PRIME TX-1600 while i talked about PRIME TX-1600 ATX 3.0. I even linked the ATX 3.0 variant.
When you assemble your own PC, in legal terms, you are considered as an OEM. Thus, you are valid to use Windows OEM version. That was especially true with Win7 and older OSes. Now, with Win10 and Win11, there is no OEM version of Windows that you can buy. So, it doesn't have any application.
Oh, depending on context, "OP" can mean a lot of different things.
In the forums context, it usually means Original Poster.
In the gaming context, it usually means Over Powered.
And there are many other meanings to it, depending on the context.
yes it is 64TB, I have verified this just now, both Norton and Windows "Computer Management" panel on Win10 have verified this, Norton says it is 61TB, and Computer Management says it is 62499.98GB,
I wasnt sure if it was for real or if it was a typo of 64GB, but it really is 64TB, that tiny item will fit every hard disk and every floppy I have used since I bought my Amiga 500 approx 1989.
just as 5.25" was superceded by 3.5", and then 3.5" superceded by 2.5", now 1.25" will supercede 2.5"
and the sting is it cost a 2 digit amount, its cheaper than the 2T small Samsung drive I bought about a year ago! basically its an example where China is overtaking South Korea.
in the screenshot, I thought the other drives were 250G, in fact 500G, I think I got a 500G for the system when I shunted a 250G magnetic to a 500G SSD, to ensure it fitted, with space left for Win11, and I shunted the other 250G to 500G when it was starting to become a bit full.
yes it is 64TB, I have verified this just now, both Norton and Windows "Computer Management" panel on Win10 have verified this, Norton says it is 61TB, and Computer Management says it is 62499.98GB,
I wasnt sure if it was for real or if it was a typo of 64GB, but it really is 64TB, that tiny item will fit every hard disk and every floppy I have used since I bought my Amiga 500 approx 1989.
just as 5.25" was superceded by 3.5", and then 3.5" superceded by 2.5", now 1.25" will supercede 2.5"
and the sting is it cost a 2 digit amount, its cheaper than the 2T small Samsung drive I bought about a year ago! basically its an example where China is overtaking South Korea.
You currently cannot buy a real 16tb external SSD or any USB drives larger than 2tb, at all. They don't exist. But if you look on almost any retailer now they show you ssd that are labelled 16tb, 30tb or larger still. These are all fake. Same applies for any USB flash drive bigger than 2tb...
forums.tomshardware.com
And at a price in 2 digits? Like...$60?
Not even a little bit.
It is a fake, no matter how much you want it to be real.
There is that one ExaDrive mentioned in the video Aeacus linked. As it sells for $10,000+ it's out of reach of most users. And that's what it would take to have a 64Tb SSD.
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