the breadboarding originally failed because I had only connected the mobo power cable, I had to then connect two 4x2 cables, and the right way round, then it reached the UEFI.
1.7 Unbox PSU and locate 24-pin ATX and two 4/8-pin EPS cables. Put the PSU near/next to MoBo, PSU fan facing upwards. Connect 24-pin and two 4/8-pin cables.
So, the most nerve-wrecking part is over and you've confirmed that the CPU-MoBo-RAM combo works. Also, from your UEFI image i can see that MoBo detects both RAM and you have total of 96 GB to use. Also, RAM is currently running on JEDEC default: 4800 MHz.
Now, you could enable the A-XMP profile to set your RAM to run at 6600 Mhz, as it is designed, but personally, i'd leave it last. Namely, i'd install OS, test GPU, assemble the build in PC case and once PC reliably works, then do the tweaks, which include, among others: fan RPM profiles and enabling RAM A-XMP.
I checked this just now, and you can get to the UEFI just with a wired mouse. in fact I wasnt able to use the keyboard at the UEFI screen, if it can be used it must be some obscure function like setting a password.
KB is actually needed to insert specific numerical values within BIOS. Usually to do with CPU OC, but also RAM XMP, if the default XMP profile isn't stable. Also, KB is there for redundancy, just in case mouse doesn't work. Everything you can do with mice, you can do with KB as well.
I suggest that you do it before installing MoBo inside the PC case. Since as i said, M.2 drive is the smallest component within your PC and you being restricted by PC case doesn't make installation of it any easier. It makes it worse.
Once you've installed M.2 drive, you can then move onwards to install OS.
Once OS is installed, you can then move onwards and install GPU, to test if it too works.
When you've confirmed that PC boots to OS without issues and GPU also works, then the breadboarding part is over. After which, you can move onwards installing the system inside the PC case (removing GPU beforehand from MoBo makes it easier).
But if you are in a hurry, you can go and install the MoBo into PC case right now, leaving M.2, OS and GPU installation when MoBo is already inside the PC case.
Be Quiet! has a switch for 2 modes, Quiet and Performance, where it was factory set to Performance, but I have reset that to Quiet, I dont know if that is the correct MO?
I'm not entirely sure if you can install and use WinXP with your new AMD build. You can run into hardware compatibility issues, since WinXP is so old OS and your current AMD rig is latest tech, with DDR5 RAM. So, i'm unsure if WinXP even works. USAFRet can answer that.
But even if you can't install WinXP, you can always emulate it. It would be almost as good as dedicated install, with some cons, but also some pros.
with much difficulty I have installed the mobo in the case, one problem is the cooler overshadows one of the standoffs, so I couldnt use the torque screwdriver on that one.
the advised 0.3 N.m torque is in fact significantly tighter than what I would have guessed.
the standoff screws werent sticking to the screwdriver bit, eventually I tried the cpu coolers screwdriver and they stuck to that, so the problem was the screwdriver bit not being magnetic rather than the screws not being magnetisable.
also I think better to install the fans after the mobo, because they get in the way of inserting the mobo.
the back fan's cable got stuck betwen the mobo back panel and the case with the initial attempt to install.
I have reached a further snag, with the 90° adapter, this is a bit wider than the mobo power cable, and it obstructs the nearby 3x2 socket called PD_PWR1 on the document's p28 diagram of the mobo.
the manual says this relates to the USB 60W fast charging for "JUSB2" which is 2 sockets along from the PD_PWR1 socket.
now I cannot find any power cable supplied with the PSU which will connect to a 3x2, all the supplied 3x2's are for SATA or PCI-E plugs.
JUSB2 appears to be the Phanteks external USB C socket.
also I find that 90° adapter not useful, I removed it and the mobo power cable reaches the socket much better from above, rather than from sideways.
that adapter has a built in PSU test, but other than that its of no use.
its a bit ambiguous as that could mean a cable which is 24 pin at one end and 2 x4 + 2 x 8 at the other end at the PSU!
this is where a "schematic" diagram would help. by schematic I dont mean a circuitboard diagram, but just a simplified diagram which is logically correct but maybe not geometrically correct.
with all the manuals also, they badly need photos rather than diagrams.
they all relate to high technology, so why not use high technology printing?
and the multilanguage manuals are such a waste of time, I wouldnt trust a translation of american english to any other language!
nowadays I only install Windows with the US option, because even the UK english option is buggy, eg with an XP install I selected british english, and the installation got stuck because it needed something only possible with a US configuration, I forget the specifics. if I want UK options I reconfigure those after the install is complete.
Windows is only tested properly with the american configuration, they then just translate to too many languages,
the manual suggests one needs to connect the 3x2 mobo socket called PD_PWR1 but that so far seems impossible as no appropriate cable supplied with the PSU, unless I have overlooked one
even worse, the Sasonic's recommended and supplied 90° adapter obstructs that socket!
So, the most nerve-wrecking part is over and you've confirmed that the CPU-MoBo-RAM combo works. Also, from your UEFI image i can see that MoBo detects both RAM and you have total of 96 GB to use. Also, RAM is currently running on JEDEC default: 4800 MHz.
Now, you could enable the A-XMP profile to set your RAM to run at 6600 Mhz, as it is designed, but personally, i'd leave it last. Namely, i'd install OS, test GPU, assemble the build in PC case and once PC reliably works, then do the tweaks, which include, among others: fan RPM profiles and enabling RAM A-XMP.
I might install without GPU initially, and use without GPU for some weeks, in order to assess how good or bad the system is without a GPU,
in order to assess whether a GPU is good value for money.
because if you arent careful you can spend a ton of money without any visible improvement, but you dont know it was a waste of money because you never tried it without the option.
I am willing to spend a lot for things, but I dont like being taken for a fool,
I have had a study of the circuitboard directly, and located 5 fan sockets, and 2 pump fan sockets. I have to reread the stuff you said about connecting the fans.
I had misunderstood that diagram on p55 of the manual, I hadnt looked carefully and thought the rectangle was literally that size! I didnt realise it was the entire mobo!
hadnt realised they were scattered all over the edges of the mobo,
KB is actually needed to insert specific numerical values within BIOS. Usually to do with CPU OC, but also RAM XMP, if the default XMP profile isn't stable. Also, KB is there for redundancy, just in case mouse doesn't work. Everything you can do with mice, you can do with KB as well.
but is that breadboarding or is that the next phase of installation!
I think you could breadboard without keyboard and without mouse, I think you will reach the UEFI screen without keyboard or mouse. at which point you know the core hardware is working.
but you would need the keyboard and mouse for installing, eg the keyboard to give the Windows key.
with the OS installed, anything you can do with the keyboard I think you can do with the mouse, via graphical software which displays a keyboard, similar idea to the keyboard graphic on smartphones.
Since as i said, M.2 drive is the smallest component within your PC and you being restricted by PC case doesn't make installation of it any easier. It makes it worse.
but dont forget this is an EATX case, its probably not as restrictive as some smaller cases.
also a lot of the top can be removed, but is currently obstructed by having installed the fans, so the Phanteks has more manoeuverability than some tower cases.
when you remove the upper lidding, the top of the tower case is mostly empty space. where if you place the tower horizontally you can access the mobo from the side through the top face of the case.
Once you've installed M.2 drive, you can then move onwards to install OS.
Once OS is installed, you can then move onwards and install GPU, to test if it too works.
When you've confirmed that PC boots to OS without issues and GPU also works, then the breadboarding part is over. After which, you can move onwards installing the system inside the PC case (removing GPU beforehand from MoBo makes it easier).
But if you are in a hurry, you can go and install the MoBo into PC case right now, leaving M.2, OS and GPU installation when MoBo is already inside the PC case.
Performance mode is better used once you put significant load on CPU. For time being, during breadboarding, it can remain in Quiet mode.
You can use unused Win10 key to activate Win11. No issues there.
I'm not entirely sure if you can install and use WinXP with your new AMD build. You can run into hardware compatibility issues, since WinXP is so old OS and your current AMD rig is latest tech, with DDR5 RAM. So, i'm unsure if WinXP even works. USAFRet can answer that.
But even if you can't install WinXP, you can always emulate it. It would be almost as good as dedicated install, with some cons, but also some pros.
officially that may be the case, but I will have a try to install XP, I'd try to start with a legacy non UEFI config,
officially you cant do all kinds of things, but in fact some of them you can!
eg my 2010 PC officially cannot install Windows 10, but in 2021 when I found that Norton doesnt run on XP, they told me I can install Windows 10 and then run it on my machine. I then tried that and it worked!
officially that may be the case, but I will have a try to install XP, I'd try to start with a legacy non UEFI config,
officially you cant do all kinds of things, but in fact some of them you can!
eg my 2010 PC officially cannot install Windows 10, but in 2021 when I found that Norton doesnt run on XP, they told me I can install Windows 10 and then run it on my machine. I then tried that and it worked!
Mine is a 2009 era Toshiba Satellite L305-S5955 Celeron 900, 2.2GHz, 2GB RAM, 250GB HDD. The only upgrade from stock was a warranty replacement of the original 160GB HDD to the current 250GB. Currently v1903, Build 18362.295 https://www.cnet.com/products/toshiba-satellite-l305-s5955/specs/...
If you want to dual/multi boot, then do it with whole drives and not partitions. Partitions are the old way of doing it and has been abandoned in favor of dedicating a drive to an OS. This has a lot to do with how certain OSs treat their "partition" but frankly, Windows has always behaved as if the whole PC was it's own and nothing else existed.
Definetly give Windows 11 your boot drive! And let it partition and format it to it's liking.
MoBo manual page 53 (or 55 in total) shows all the fan headers on your MoBo.
Since you have 7 case fans in total, two most common connection methods;
SYS_FAN5 - rear exhaust fan
SYS_FAN4 - bottom intake
SYS_FAN3 - two front intake fans using Y-splitter, to connect two fans on single header
SYS_FAN2 - one of the top exhaust fans
SYS_FAN1 - remaining two top exhaust fans using Y-splitter, to connect two fans on single header
Note: using Y-splitter will make both fans run in sync and individual fan control is impossible.
Or if you want individual control over each and every case fan, then;
SYS_FAN5 - rear exhaust fan
SYS_FAN4 - bottom intake
PUMP_FAN2 - one front intake fan
SYS_FAN3 - remaining front intake fan
SYS_FAN2 - one of the top exhaust fans
SYS_FAN1 - 2nd top exhaust fan
PUMP_FAN1 - 3rd top exhaust fan
I have attached all the fans with this second option,
I had to change where the fan power cable was for 2 fans,
the lower front fan now has the power cable from the middle in order to reach PUMP_FAN2,
with the cable from the lower end it doesnt reach properly, this may seem illogical but its because the mobo doesnt start at the base of the tower because the PSU is there:
fan cable if from upper edge
MOBO PUMP_FAN2 ----------------------------
----------------------------------
_______________
PSU
fan cable if from lowest edge
----------------------------------
with the top fans, the one above the HDD cages, that one, the cable was from the front, but that obstructs the 5.25" bays, that cable has been changed to the opposite end, and now no obstruction.
there is a space of a few millimetres between the top fans, so the cables can emerge from any of the 4 options.
I booted up with all fans connected, and an ongoing rattling sound, eventually located was a power cable touching the outer cooler fan.
switched off and moved that power cable around the other side of the cooler.
found also I had to click the rectangle on top of the cooler in place by pressing it.
as with most german products, the documentation is totally hopeless!
the product itself is good, but the documentation is 1/5 stars!
a photo would have helped to show that the outer fan should point to the memory modules,
and some advice on how to stop the inner fan sliding out, I eventually had to figure that out for myself,
and to figure out for myself to click the top rectangle in place,
also no comment that the lid can be placed either way.
lets stress out our customers by making them have to guess repeatedly what to do!
Note: If you use this connection method, do go to BIOS on power on and change the fan mode on PUMP_FAN headers from PWM to DC. Since else-ways, those two Noctua fans connected to PUMP_FAN headers will operate at 100% at all times.
If you want to dual/multi boot, then do it with whole drives and not partitions. Partitions are the old way of doing it and has been abandoned in favor of dedicating a drive to an OS. This has a lot to do with how certain OSs treat their "partition" but frankly, Windows has always behaved as if the whole PC was it's own and nothing else existed.
Definetly give Windows 11 your boot drive! And let it partition and format it to it's liking.
I was thinking of going for Windows 10, simply because I have been using it for almost 2 years now and know my way around. my 2023 laptop has Windows 11, and I find it very confusing.
maybe to give Windows 10 the M2 drive, or use M2 for my own data, and use an ordinary SSD for Windows?
would 2 partitions, 1 for Win10 and 1 for Win11 be problematic?
when you say "certain OSs", are you referring to say Linux? or to certain versions of Windows? or other?
if I use old era partitions, like those on XP, where there are at most 4 top level ones (unless you subdivide at most one into logical partitions) will that be better?
Since Win 10 and 11 and more or less the same OS, pick one and stick with it. You can upgrade to 11 if you want or need, or you can go back to 10 from 11. All done from the Windows Update menu.
This is the simplest way.
Since connectors on PSU side depend on the PSU brand/OEM, no point for me to talk about those. Also, PSU side pinout differs from PSU to PSU. So, when talking about power cables, i only refer the business end of it, the part that plugs into other hardware.
IF you want to plug power to the PD_PWR1 socket, then you need to use 6/8-pin PCI-E cable. Every PCI-E power cable your PSU has, may look like 8-pin connector, but instead, you can split the connector apart, forming one 6-pin and one 2-pin. 2-pin is dismissed while 6-pin can then be used to plug into hardware.
I'm lost here. Seasonic PRIME TX-1600 doesn't include any 90 degree 24-pin adapters, or any power adapters in that matter.
Now, there is Seasonic 90 degree 24-pin adapter with PSU tester, this thing,
But i could not find it on sale anywhere. Also it was unveiled less than a year ago, in Computex 2023 (30 May - 02 June), so it is hard to believe it to be included with retail PSUs already, especially since there is 0 word about it on PSU specs page.
have had a study of the circuitboard directly, and located 5 fan sockets, and 2 pump fan sockets. I have to reread the stuff you said about connecting the fans.
I had misunderstood that diagram on p55 of the manual, I hadnt looked carefully and thought the rectangle was literally that size! I didnt realise it was the entire mobo!
hadnt realised they were scattered all over the edges of the mobo,
When CPU is up to 70°C, CPU is fine and no need to worry
70°C-80°C - time to start worrying
80°C-89°C - CPU thermal throttle
90°C and above - CPU cooks itself (Tjmax is 89°C for your R9 7950X3D)
Though, modern CPUs have safeguards built in them, where power is killed and PC will shut down, before there is a chance for CPU to cook up. And you can not power on the PC before CPU has cooled down below 89°C.
Now, you could enable the A-XMP profile to set your RAM to run at 6600 Mhz, as it is designed, but personally, i'd leave it last. Namely, i'd install OS, test GPU, assemble the build in PC case and once PC reliably works, then do the tweaks, which include, among others: fan RPM profiles and enabling RAM A-XMP.
I would like to reconfigure now to the new RAM, BECAUSE
just to get to the UEFI screen means the CPU, RAM and mobo graphics must be working, as that UEFI screen involves all of these, eg all those graphs means they literally have an app in the firmware to create all that.
so I know for sure the RAM is working, and thus can reconfigure for it.
the other tweak I would like to do now is the fan noise, see later,
but I will leave tweaks beyond these till later, unless its to resolve a major problem such as the fan noise.
I want to also start connecting the mobo with the tower case things, eg the front panel and power switch. currently it looks like I have to power up by pressing the power switch on the mobo, so it would be major hassle if I reinstall the door, and as you said the door needs to be shut to use the fans properly, so right now without door, it is unsatisfactory. I need to enable an external power up switch. they ought to have a power up switch on the back panel!
they have some dangerous switches on the back, eg "Clear CMOS"!
when I see DDR as regards memory, I keep thinking of East Germany, as the german name for East Germany was the DDR, namely "Deutsche Demokratische Republik", which wasnt democratic!
Since connectors on PSU side depend on the PSU brand/OEM, no point for me to talk about those. Also, PSU side pinout differs from PSU to PSU. So, when talking about power cables, i only refer the business end of it, the part that plugs into other hardware.
ok, but I did specify the PSU so potentially you might reference the PSU side also.
I think when giving complicated technical info, it does pay to add further disambiguation,
eg when I program, I have to create endless namings, eg of functions and data constructs, and I put multiple disambiguations to be completely sure the stuff cannot be misunderstood.
I also multiply disambiguate when enquiring about products.
with computer languages, THE biggest problem with languages is ambiguity. an example of an ambiguity with languages is division,
what is 8/4/2 ?
if you do the left / first, it is (8/4)/2 = 2/2 = 1
but if you do the right / first it is 8/(4/2) = 8/2 = 4
this kind of thing is disambiguated usually by saying you do the left / first, what is described as "/ is left associative".
something like 1+2x3 is also ambiguous, if you do the + first, you get (1+2)x3 = 9, if you do the x first you get 1+(2x3) = 7. this one is disambiguated by saying you have to do x before +, which is described as "x has higher precedence than +".
they created a fully unambiguous idea called "reverse polish syntax" which I think was used by ancient Hewlett Packard calculators, where you put operators after the operands. eg instead of 2 + 3 you put 2 3 +
where (2+3) x (4+5) is done as 2 3 + 4 5 + x
the main negative of this MO is its more effort to read, but you dont need brackets. the Postscript language also uses reverse polish syntax.
now with + , (a+b)+c = a+(b+c), but in fact not with computers!
eg with a calculator if you do (-99999999) + 99999999 + 0.0000001
if you do the left + first, namely:
-99999999=
+99999999=
+0.0000001=
you will get 0.0000001,
but if you do the right + first, namely:
99999999=
+0.0000001=
(-99999999)+ANS=
you will get 0
different answers depending which + you do first!
this is where I have criticised some hardware naming, as it can be misunderstood, eg I got the wrong PSU because I didnt know "TX-1600" was different from "TX-1600 ATX3.0", note also you made the same mistake, because my original posting says "TX-1600" and not "TX-1600 ATX3.0" and you misinterpreted that as "TX-1600"!
I misinterpreted what you said, but you also misinterpreted my misinterpretation!
in my opinion a proper name should not include any spaces, the moment you have spaces this creates confusion.
there are 10000 numbers from 0000 to 9999, so there is no excuse by Seasonic, eg they can have say TX-1630, and clarify with "TX-1630 ATX3.0".
a proper name shouldnt include spaces and should completely specify the product. if there are further versions, you should disambiguate eg TX-1600 ATX3.0 version. or eg Intergalactic DVD region 2 version.
IF you want to plug power to the PD_PWR1 socket, then you need to use 6/8-pin PCI-E cable. Every PCI-E power cable your PSU has, may look like 8-pin connector, but instead, you can split the connector apart, forming one 6-pin and one 2-pin. 2-pin is dismissed while 6-pin can then be used to plug into hardware.
if you take just the PSU, connect it to the mains, and attach just the mobo power cable, and put this device at the end, then power on and press the button, a blue led comes on, I think press again and it gradually goes back to red (I forget the specifics). this allegedly makes it easier to access the mobo power connectors. but in fact it is totally useless with this mobo and tower case, with this mobo using the adapter the PSU cable has to come from the 5.25" bays and if those are populated there is risk of kinking. and also if you look at the 3rd photo you'll see its wider than the mobo power socket, but the neighbouring 3x2 PD_PWR1 is right next to the power socket, so the 90° obstructs that! its an example of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"!
I cannot give photos, as I would have to remove the mobo power cable, then reconnect the 90° adapter, then reattach that, then photo, then detach the 90° adapter from both the mobo and the power cable, then reattach the power cable directly, and some of the detaching is tricky, and it would be too much wear and tear of the sockets.
Also it was unveiled less than a year ago, in Computex 2023 (30 May - 02 June), so it is hard to believe it to be included with retail PSUs already, especially since there is 0 word about it on PSU specs page.
When CPU is up to 70°C, CPU is fine and no need to worry
70°C-80°C - time to start worrying
80°C-89°C - CPU thermal throttle
90°C and above - CPU cooks itself (Tjmax is 89°C for your R9 7950X3D)
Though, modern CPUs have safeguards built in them, where power is killed and PC will shut down, before there is a chance for CPU to cook up. And you can not power on the PC before CPU has cooled down below 89°C.
"EZ" is an american pun, because in american english "E" is pronounced ee, and "Z" is pronounced zee,
so EZ is pronounced eezee, ie a pun of "easy", ie "EZ Mode" is a pun of "easy mode".
but the pun fails with british english, because "Z" is pronounced "zed",
an example of something that is lost in translation even to british english!
now I cannot find any EZ Mode, see the earlier photo of the UEFI:
I understand what you are saying, but I am a student of pathology (to study and understand malfunction, eg they figured out some of how ancient latin was pronounced from spelling mistakes in graffiti! spelling mistakes are generally phonetic! nobody knows for sure how ancient latin was pronounced), so after the build is complete, I am interested to see whether and where and how an attempt to install XP fails.
same way I needed to see whether and where and how the allegedly 64T disk failed, and found that it only fails in terms of the contents of files being all hexadecimal zeros if you filled the disk with too many files. it passes the Windows and Linux disk management systems, which both think it is some 64T, and it creates the correct filenames, filesizes and datestamps. so is an elusive one to fail. but from the way it fails, I understand how the scam works.
but I wont waste your time here asking on this, except for one fundamental question:
how do I get a legacy startup rather than the UEFI?
also because I have written some of my own programs which boot directly from a floppy disk without OS, which expect the CPU in 16 bit mode, I will need a legacy startup to try these.
I think if XP can be installed, it would have to be via a legacy startup, as the XP install will expect the CPU to be in 16 bit mode, but the UEFI has to be either 32 or 64 bit, and thus an XP install is unikely to work from that.
any attempt to install XP will also have to be from an old era partition, any partition formats introduced after XP's era are guaranteed to fail!
I need to see with my own eyes it failing both an old era partition setup and a legacy boot environment.
same way a really ancient era form of Microsoft will probably need to be done entirely with floppy disks!
If you want to dual/multi boot, then do it with whole drives and not partitions. Partitions are the old way of doing it and has been abandoned in favor of dedicating a drive to an OS. This has a lot to do with how certain OSs treat their "partition" but frankly, Windows has always behaved as if the whole PC was it's own and nothing else existed.
Definetly give Windows 11 your boot drive! And let it partition and format it to it's liking.
as a student of pathology again, I will nonetheless try to install both Win 10 and XP to different partitions, and see if and where it fails. but I take your comment as a warning to not ask too much about this as it is advised against,
with my 2010 PC, I have dual boot to both XP and Win 10, so I know dual boot works for 32 bit,
but somewhere someone said this machine is 64 bit only, so I expect problems, but I want to see those problems manifest,
that way I can mentally demarcate the boundary between impossibility and possibility.
The USAFRet and 35below0 comments are warnings as to where the boundary may lie, ie XP and multi boot lie completely in the zone of impossibility, so I wont ask here if I run into problems, but am just mapping out that there are problems.
these are just my own protocols. to get to an elite level of life, you mustnt just follow the official thinking.
the people at the top are at the top because they dont follow the normal rules. if you follow all the rules, you eventually will become trapped!
when I see DDR as regards memory, I keep thinking of East Germany, as the german name for East Germany was the DDR, namely "Deutsche Demokratische Republik", which wasnt democratic!
Now looking closely the PSU specs page, there is the 90 degree PSU tester showing on the product image. Initially, i thought it was the old PSU tester that was just 24-pin with pwr + and - pins bridged.
Old PSU tester guide video:
(tester is seen at 1:26)
This topic mostly contains relevant info for your PC assemble. I've kept the small talk at minimum. Then again, PC assemble is quite a daunting task, especially for uninitiated.
A Speed Switch allows you to choose between 2 modes, each affecting the maximum fan speed and PWM curve. The Quiet Mode provides a maximum fan speed of up to 1500rpm and is the perfect choice for normal applications. The Performance Mode allows the Silent Wings fans to spin with up to 2000rpm and unleashes Dark Rock Pro 5’s full power.
Open up your image and look on the left side. There are several tabs: CPU, Memory, Storage, Fan info, Help. The "EZ Mode" is written above that column, indicating that you're viewing the easy mode of UEFI, and not the Advanced (in-depth) mode.
Advanced mode button is at the very top, slightly right from middle.
You need to set "BIOS Mode" to CSM, rather than UEFI. It can be done somewhere from UEFI. Your UEFI also has a Help option, dive into that and look for answer there.
MoBo manual page 68 has few words about it as well, but it won't tell how to change UEFI to CSM.
UEFI advantages
∙ Fast booting - UEFI can directly boot the operating system and save the BIOS self-
test process. And also eliminates the time to switch to CSM mode during POST.
∙ Supports for hard drive partitions larger than 2 TB.
∙ Supports more than 4 primary partitions with a GUID Partition Table (GPT).
∙ Supports unlimited number of partitions.
∙ Supports full capabilities of new devices - new devices may not provide backward
compatibility.
∙ Supports secure startup - UEFI can check the validity of the operating system to ensure that no malware tampers with the startup process.
Though, i advise against using CSM mode, since CSM (Legacy/BIOS) is obsolete. Also, it is being phased out, where eventually, it will bite the dust, whereby only UEFI remains.
Incompatible UEFI cases
32-bit Windows operating system - this motherboard supports only Windows 10/Windows 11 64-bit operating system Older graphics card - the system will detect your graphics card. If you use older graphics cards, it may display a warning message There is no GOP (Graphics Output protocol) support detected in this graphics card.
The USAFRet and 35below0 comments are warnings as to where the boundary may lie, ie XP and multi boot lie completely in the zone of impossibility, so I wont ask here if I run into problems, but am just mapping out that there are problems.
these are just my own protocols. to get to an elite level of life, you mustnt just follow the official thinking.
the people at the top are at the top because they dont follow the normal rules.
Morality and hardware compatibility are two completely different things. Can't compare the two.
E.g one can't turn a stone into bread, no matter how immoral one is.
As urged by others, do not try to do this with your new PC. Even if legacy is needed for older OSs, it will cause you compatibility headaches using Win 11.
Also, if you could somehow get XP onto this machine, XP would do it's best to screw up your Win 11 "partition".
Microsoft never designed their Windows to play nice with multi OS partitions. Even for different versions of Windows.
Why not get a cheap, small SSD and use that drive for an alternate OS? There is no penalty.
Or better still, buy a cheap PC dedicated solely to running XP through emulation.
I don't mind you going against advice and trying things for yourself, but you cannot go against operating systems themselves. XP has it's own hardware requirements and your PC far exceedes them however that is precisely the problem. XP was last updated such a long time ago that current components are alien to it.
You can have XP even on your machine, same way you can have Amiga Workbench. Use emulation to fool the OS into thinking it is running on hardware it knows and understands.
That is the simplest way that works. Other options are more onerous.
the 2 emails show slightly different monetary amounts, not sure why.
I was confident I'd get a refund, because there is some reverse psychology, that the cost to dispute my request will probably be more than the money they will get by successfully disputing. they could get millions of refund requests each day.
thus they will just check that the items look correct and issue a refund.
if a dispute can be opposed from a quick visual, then they will probably oppose the request.
eg if you say the case of an item is broken, and its not broken.
Better to get dedicated drive for each OS, rather than splitting the partition.
Splitting the partition was relevant in the WinXP era, where there were partition size limits when using MBR partition table. Now, GPT partition table is instead used and that makes splitting the partition apart obsolete.
Also, using multi-drive as OS, is better than single multi-partitioned drive. Since an event the drive should die (or data on it gets corrupted), you don't loose all OSes on that single drive. Instead, you can just select another drive to boot off from.
In a nutshell:
990 Pro 2TB - Drive C: Win10 (11)
990 Pro 1TB - Drive D: GNU/Linux
If either of the drives should die, you still have backup OS, to boot off from, since 2nd OS lives on another drive.
Compared to:
990 Pro 2TB Drive C: - 1st partition: Win10 (11), 2nd partition: GNU/Linux
If drive C: dies, you will loose both OSes at an instant. No redundancy there.
And it isn't hard to switch the Boot drive during start-up either.
You can, either:
* Go to UEFI and change the Boot order manually
* Press F11 during POST (namely when the "Press DEL key to enter Setup Menu, F11 to enter Boot Menu" message appears on the screen during the boot process), which brings up small Boot Menu window, from where you can easily select the drive you want to boot off from (it is no different from the selection when you have dual-boot set up)
I have installed the Panasonic 3D bluray writer from my 2010 PC,
I removed a midbar on the right of the HDD cages, as that obstructs access to the SATA sockets.
on installing it I then remembered I may need to use the optical drive from the 2010 PC to create an install DVD, but I'll do that instead with the external Samsung USB2 bluray writer.
the SATA power sockets appear to not have clips, is this always the case?
is it only the SATA data sockets that sometimes have clips?
Now looking closely the PSU specs page, there is the 90 degree PSU tester showing on the product image. Initially, i thought it was the old PSU tester that was just 24-pin with pwr + and - pins bridged.
Old PSU tester guide video:
(tester is seen at 1:26)
as I said, reality is the most reliable channel of truth!
its an interesting philosophical question "what is truth?", the most reliable is direct observation, then you have 2nd hand observation ie testimony, but this can contain assumptions, misinformation (forwarding of incorrect info), disinformation (deliberately incorrect info), you also have deduction which has different forms: logical deduction, correlative deduction eg medical testing, extrapolation eg I have used 3 peugeots and all were nice to drive, so I now say all peugeots are nice to drive. there is expert opinion eg as regards covid, there is reference to books eg religions referring to scripture. in a court of law you have truth by vote, namely the jury and also expert opinion.
one problem with memory is when we see something we make assumptions, but the assumptions are misremembered as facts! especially after many years, assumptions generally are misremembered as facts.
above you assumed the PSU tester was the old one, and you then remembered that assumption as a fact!
This topic mostly contains relevant info for your PC assemble. I've kept the small talk at minimum. Then again, PC assemble is quite a daunting task, especially for uninitiated.
its mainly a problem of information overload, I was considering the fan sockets from a different discussion about what to do with the Phanteks inbuilt fan cables.
Open up your image and look on the left side. There are several tabs: CPU, Memory, Storage, Fan info, Help. The "EZ Mode" is written above that column,
indicating that you're viewing the easy mode of UEFI, and not the Advanced (in-depth) mode.
Advanced mode button is at the very top, slightly right from middle.
You need to set "BIOS Mode" to CSM, rather than UEFI. It can be done somewhere from UEFI. Your UEFI also has a Help option, dive into that and look for answer there.
MoBo manual page 68 has few words about it as well, but it won't tell how to change UEFI to CSM.
when you reset to CSM, how do you get back to UEFI?
is it an option in the CSM mode, or is it that when you power down, and then power up again it is back to UEFI?
with my XP-Win10 dual boot, it boots towards Win10, then when I click to use an earlier version of windows, it reboots to XP, I think if I reboot again it heads back towards Win10.
requires some experimentation to determine the sequencing logic
but I need the obsolete pathway to run obsolete stuff!
dont confuse obsolete with no good!
I have all kinds of obsolete stuff which outclasses today's stuff!
by default, one should use the UEFI, as its a bit strange to boot to a 64 bit machine going from 16 bit to 32 bit to 64 bit. a lot of work to get the hardware to what is for other computer architectures the power on state!
BUT one of the major reasons PCs have been so successful, is backwards compatibility, because then people dont take a risk upgrading as they can shunt their software from the earlier system.
whereas if everything is new, people will look at other architectures as nothing to gain by sticking to the same architecture.
eg switch to Linux or Unix or Apple which I think is ultimately a form of Unix.
Unix is THE most successful system ever, lasting from 1971 till today, where Linux is essentially a reimplementation of Unix. a lot of modern MO originated from Unix.
with Unix and Linux you have backwards compatibility right to the start, but via recompilation, where you recompile the same source code to future systems. Unix is commercial recompilation, and Linux is about open source recompilation, where any user potentially can recompile the open source apps to any future version.
historically, various firms developed superior technology to the IBM PC, but IBM always persuaded customers to not switch with promises of backwards compatibility if they kept to IBM's hardware.
IBM would promise better hardware in the future, and always under delivered, but meanwhile the rival firm with superior hardware were already bankrupt. this is documented in the book "Big Blue"
this is just inadvisable, it isnt much effort or cost to maintain backwards compatibility, if done cleverly can be done just once, where the compatibility module is just shunted to successive future systems.
it could literally be done on some tiny chip.
you are looking only forwards in time, I am heading towards 60, I think you are heading towards 40, I am where you will be maybe in 2044AD!
where I have seen technology gradually emerge, then become mainstream, then go obsolete so many times, that I know that everything that comes out next year will eventually be obsolete junk. For younger people new technology is very exciting, but for me it isnt, its a nuisance, and is future obsolete junk, I have seen it all before, since approx 1977, 47 years of seeing technology come and go, and in each case it all seems very exciting and eventually becomes junk.
as an example, I bought the complete Adobe Creative Suite when you could still buy this as standalone software, and I need backwards compatibility for this. eg Adobe Acrobat Pro has inbuilt OCR and for other languages such as german, where I can scan a document, convert to pdf, and then use the OCR and cut and paste from the document. and eg for foreign documents, this enables me very easily to translate a german document to english via online translation.
today you cannot buy this standalone, and have to rent it from Adobe, its just a no no for me.
with my camera, the software only works properly with XP, with Windows 10, the software is there, but it doesnt keep track of which photos have been transferred. on XP, I can just click one button which will shunt only the most recent photos, and automatically create dated folders, eg 2024_03_26 for those taken today.
with Windows 10 I have to access the camera as if its a disk drive, and manually copy over the photos.
I will try to install it, but as an act of calibration and to verify for myself if or if not it is problematic.
I have programmed the bootstrap hardware directly, so my view of the hardware is expert from the software side! I have even programmed multicore, getting all the cores to write text to the screen simultaneously, this is very tricky as when the one core writes, the other cores have to be held back till it has completed. when it has finished, 2 cores might try to write simultaneously, which is an asynchronicity problem. or even 15 cores might all try to write simultaneously.
many people who will try to install XP on new hardware will be flying blind, where they have no idea at all about the low level, most users dont even know what files are, for them computers are total confusion.
but I not just know, but have programmed the low level.
from having programmed it, I am not convinced that it will be tricky,
and in any case my 2010 PC IS dual boot to XP and Win 10, admittedly in 32 bit mode. so I know for a fact that Win 10 can coexist with XP, I agree that I cannot just extrapolate this to a hostile mobo.
this is where I maybe should have gotten a Gigabyte mobo as they are heavily into backwards compatibility.
you are trying to impress me by saying they will junk backwards compatibility, but in fact this is putting me off the MSI mobos!
in the earlier topic, right at the outset I said I wanted backwards compatibility to the year dot, eg floppy drives, PS2 mice etc.
the new machine may try to force me to be unable to use Win XP, but I wont just go the way the machine guides me!
the modern systems try their utmost to guide people where they want them to be,
but if you know enough you can go where they dont want you to be! and that is where I want to be!
I am not a sheep!
eg with Windows 10, by default all your files are on "one drive". You have to do some runaround to halt one drive.
I actually find it unethical for defaulting to one drive, users should opt out by default, where opting in is a choice. to opt in by default is coercive and manipulative behaviour, should be made illegal, eg default subscription renewals are highly unethical.
in the EU, it is illegal for a purchase to be in one click, you must have a confirm page, because the initial page might be ambiguous, and you need to study the confirm page to be sure its what you thought it was.
the big US firms are in fact currently in battle with the EU over the coercive behaviour of the US firms.
the US regulators also are now in battle with Apple for its coercive behaviour.
when I first installed Windows 10, I set up some backdrop photos. then eventually had to reinstall from scratch, even reformatting the install volume. to my amazement the earlier backdrop photo reappeared!
because of one drive. I regard this as unauthorised access to my data.
Morality and hardware compatibility are two completely different things. Can't compare the two.
E.g one can't turn a stone into bread, no matter how immoral one is.
its more philosophy than morality, its about truth rather than right versus wrong.
it is alleged incompatibility, I need to calibrate for myself the truth, and that is philosophy,
it may be incompatible, but I need to see this play out with say a brand new SSD with no user data on it,
same way with that 64T drive, I played out what the problem is when people said it was fake.
they were right, but I cant action a refund based on hearsay which isnt even the same disk!
the fact is I have XP and Win 10 on the same disk for my 2010 PC, no problem at all. this is one reason I have doubts. but the problem might be with BIOS incompatibility of the new mobo. as the early stages of the XP install will depend on some BIOS things.
in maths up to graduate level, you dont just take anything as a fact, the student has to verify for themselves from first principles to re-establish all facts, and will be asked to re-establish some in the exam also.
now at the postgrad level, you have to take a lot as fact, as it isnt viable to re-establish most things.
science is entirely about re-establishable facts, all science experiments have to be repeatable by someone else, to confirm or deny the conclusion. this is where science is different from religion.
technology and money and knowledge arent everything, you also need philosophy. science itself is based on philosophy, a science doctorate is a phd which means "doctor of philosophy", NOT "doctor of science"!
science is a specific form of philosophy, based on empiricism.
psychology isnt science, but is pseudo-science. the pseudo-sciences are very important!
I'll experiment in any case on a brand new drive, installing new OSes is always dangerous!
alternatively I'll do a sector by sector backup of the drive before installing.
at least once I tried "repairing" an XP install which no longer booted, where the repair failed, and now things were worse!
so now if I decide to repair, I will do a sector by sector backup first, that way I can reinstate the original.
even if this costs £100 and delays things by some days!
if I get a drive for each OS, there is the problem of where I will keep the SSDs?
I can see 2 vertical bays on the side.
I have a factory sealed 2T WD blue magnetic SATA drive, maybe I will experiment with it, but I have gotten rid off the HDD cages, maybe it will work from the 10 USB3 hub and a USB enclosure.
it will be noisy, so will just be a temporary measure.
If installs are dangerous, then that suggests there's a massive issue with your backup regimen. Installing an OS should be no more dangerous and no more difficult than replacing a roll of toilet paper.
This topic mostly contains relevant info for your PC assemble. I've kept the small talk at minimum. Then again, PC assemble is quite a daunting task, especially for uninitiated.
but with all the warnings, I expect it to fail, but I want to see how it fails. I wont waste your time asking how to make it succeed. I'll report back either way.
Splitting the partition was relevant in the WinXP era, where there were partition size limits when using MBR partition table. Now, GPT partition table is instead used and that makes splitting the partition apart obsolete.
to try and dual boot XP and Win10, you have to go via the 4 top level partitions, because XP wont understand the newer system. I agree unlimited partitions is a better idea. but if you want a multi OS disk, you MUST go old school, and also old school startup. new school probably wont work!
with AmigaOS right from the start you could have unlimited partitions, AND I think its not done via a table, but each descriptor points to the next one, where I think the descriptors are near the start of the disk.
potentially the descriptors could get corrupted, but so could a partition table, you need information redundancy in the filesystem in order to be able to repair corrupted disks.
by information redundancy I mean that some of the information can be deduced from other bits of information,
eg "John had 3 german cars from the 1990s, a Mercedes from 1993, a VW from 1994, and a BMW from 1995".
"3" and "german" and "1990s" are redundant pieces of information, but this kind of thing helps disambiguate and confirm the info is correct, and fix corrupted data. if "Mercedes" got corrupted to become "********", the word "german" enables us to know it isnt "Vauxhall", and we can probably repair the word.
with the Amiga system, the descriptors can start anywhere in some initial region of the hard drive, that way if a sector gets corrupted, you can just shunt the descriptors away from that sector.
when a disk is started, the OS will scan the initial sectors to determine the partitions.
If installs are dangerous, then that suggests there's a massive issue with your backup regimen. Installing an OS should be no more dangerous and no more difficult than replacing a roll of toilet paper.
the problem can be with the OS also, eg when I installed Linux, and more than 1 version of XP, eg XP home edition and XP professional, depending on the order of installation, sometimes I wouldnt get a list of OSes to boot from where the other OSes were frozen out. Windows sometimes will show all the other OSes including Linux.
I think some versions of Linux can obliterate whatever OSes you already had on the disk.
I would always do a sector backup before trying to install Linux.
usually if I want Linux, I will install that first, as Windows tends to be more cooperative.
in any case I dont keep "work" on the OS volume. I keep all my downloads, photos, etc AWAY from the entire disk which has the OSes. that way all the OS installs are disposable. I'd have to reinstall all the apps etc!
now with browsers, the favourites will probably be on the OS volume, so I have to manually occasionally backup the favourites to another volume.
so there is some collateral damage if an OS gets corrupted, but I studiously keep work away from the OS disk. the OS disk is the most accessed, and thus the first to wear out, and it is outright foolish to keep work on it, and of course they always guide you to keep your work on it.
with the Amiga, you could install anything anywhere, even in memory. and with better installs, you could even move a directory to another volume, and run that from a different machine, no problem! the installations were generally encapsulated. with no registry hassle!
I have one windows program which is like that, a disk salvage program, which if on a flash drive, you can insert this in any PC and run it directly without installing. cost me extra for that version.
The Amiga is totally and incomparably different from Windows, and the most efficiently designed system ever.
my Amiga 500 from approx 1988 had pre-emptive multitasking with a mere 1/2 MB.
the Amiga is the only system I know of where plenty of people understand the entire system at some level.
this is the big disadvantage, you have to mitigate by keeping your data off the OS disks.
the advantages is less disk clutter, less power usage by fewer disks, and if you keep your data off the OS disk better organisation, because you can just move the disk to your laptop and continue working on the stuff.
when I get the new PC working, I can just reconnect my main data SSD non OS drive to the new machine, and all my data instantly there.
every few months, it is a good idea to say do a sectorwise backup of in use OS disks. that way you can reinstate what things were a few months ago.
nowadays with Linux I dont even bother installing, instead I use "try without installing", that is great because it often has some useful programs pre-installed.
If installs are dangerous, then that suggests there's a massive issue with your backup regimen. Installing an OS should be no more dangerous and no more difficult than replacing a roll of toilet paper.
I manually backup based on comprehension of the scenario. eg if the creation of files involves a lot of work, I will backup that work more frequently. with irreplaceable things I make more backups. if I have to install or repair an OS, I will do a sector by sector backup of the entire drive.
What is your backup situation at home? And if you don't do that, why not? Every single day, I read multiple threads here of "How do I get my stuff back?" or "That drive had 5 years of photos of my kids!!" Be it a dead drive, dropped phone, virus, accidental deletion, formatting the wrong...
forums.tomshardware.com
Basically, every drive, every night.
A Full backup, followed by a rolling series of Incrementals.
What is your backup situation at home? And if you don't do that, why not? Every single day, I read multiple threads here of "How do I get my stuff back?" or "That drive had 5 years of photos of my kids!!" Be it a dead drive, dropped phone, virus, accidental deletion, formatting the wrong...
forums.tomshardware.com
Basically, every drive, every night.
A Full backup, followed by a rolling series of Incrementals.
do you have a step by step explanation how to set this up from scratch, including any hardware and software?
eg say a minimalist "general" system, where if you have more than 1 copy of some stuff to just use 2 drives for that.
the NAS drive is presumably connected to some network but does that mean having to also install a network, or is it done via wireless eg via the broadband modem, or by some kind of standalone wireless. Also to backup the phones automatically, the phone would need to be switched on, but what if the batteries run out or the person leaves the house with the phone? and then eg the phone's disk gets modified whilst away, then they come back in range of the NAS?
can the setup do sector by sector backups? eg for the OS disk, that really needs to be sector by sector, at least I think copying the files of a Windows drive to another drive wont work as a boot drive or will it?
sector by sector also has the advantage of backing up deleted files, where one could potentially undelete them.
do you have a step by step explanation how to set this up from scratch, including any hardware and software?
eg say a minimalist "general" system, where if you have more than 1 copy of some stuff to just use 2 drives for that.
the NAS drive is presumably connected to some network but does that mean having to also install a network, or is it done via wireless eg via the broadband modem, or by some kind of standalone wireless. Also to backup the phones automatically, the phone would need to be switched on, but what if the batteries run out or the person leaves the house with the phone? and then eg the phone's disk gets modified whilst away, then they come back in range of the NAS?
can the setup do sector by sector backups? eg for the OS disk, that really needs to be sector by sector, at least I think copying the files of a Windows drive to another drive wont work as a boot drive or will it?
sector by sector also has the advantage of backing up deleted files, where one could potentially undelete them.
The "network" is simply the NAS connected to the same router as the PCs.
Basically:
Macrium Reflect on the PC.
That writes an Image out to a folder tree (or single folder) on the NAS.
Scheduling in Macrium makes it easy to denote how long to keep, and what days and time of day.
A Full (and then Incremental) in Macrium does NOT need to be a sector by sector copy.
A full drive image is indeed everything needed to recover that to a new drive, or overwrite a faulty OS.
Yes, I've tested this, and yes, I've used it.
This could also be done to a single large USB external drive.
But I do this with ALL my house systems, so a single drive would not work.
They all write to the same folder tree in the NAS. Each system, and then each physical drive, gets it own subfolder in that top level folder called "Backups".
This is my current C drive, from Today going back to Mar 9. (there are more)
I could recover the entire C drive, on any date in the last 30 days.
This goes for the other 5 physical drives in the system.
now with this, there is a USB plug labelled USB3.1, and one with twin cables labelled USB3.0.
the tower's front panel, has two USB3 A sockets, and one USB3 C socket.
Now the mobo manual, internal page 48, talks of:
JUSB1: USB3.2 Gen 2 10 Gbps type-C front panel connector
JUSB2: USB3.2 Gen 2x2 20Gbps type-C front panel connector,
and then also the earlier fact that for USB PD 60W fast charging for JUSB2, the PD_PWR1 connector needs to be connected to the PSU. I dont know if they mean that only JUSB2 does fast charging, or whether they mean the other C sockets do fast charging, but JUSB2 needs PD_PWR1 connected to work?
we now have some mismatches between the tower case and the mobo.
JUSB1 and JUSB2 presume two USB C front panel connectors, but there is just one,
they also talk of USB3.2, but the tower case cables are 3.0 and 3.1.
I have to assume the 3.0 plug with twin cables must be for the 2 USB3 A sockets on the front panel.
but that plug wont work with JUSB1 and JUSB2, as its a bigger plug.
so where to plug the blue USB3.0 plug in the photo?
I just dont know if this means this tower case cannot do fast charging?
my guess is the USB3.1 would connect to JUSB1 or JUSB2, but will it handle the fast charging, and is that only if connected to JUSB2? also if it doesnt enable fast charging, would it be better to disconnect PD_PWR1?
does PD_PWR1 serve any purpose other than fast charging?
there is a big diagram of the circuitboard on internal page 28 of the manual.
and then a further problem, in the photo there are 2 SATA power sockets of 12V.
the one on the right is labelled SATA, the other I had to guess by it looking the same.
but I dont get that, the front panel doesnt have SATA sockets, what are they supposed to connect to?
is it to SATA drives? but then where do they draw their power from?
if it is to the SATA sockets from the PSU, then where do these SATA plugs cables go to?
I dont know if I will have to buy a 3rd party front panel to do the mobo justice?
You can run into hardware compatibility issues, since WinXP is so old OS and your current AMD rig is latest tech, with DDR5 RAM. So, i'm unsure if WinXP even works. USAFRet can answer that.
Seasonic PRIME TX-1600 doesn't include any 90 degree 24-pin adapters, or any power adapters in that matter.
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