OP: Why Microsoft is Innocent with IE8

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I was a die hard Netscape user until it ceased to exist. I use Opera, Firefox and other browsers not because I hate Microsoft (which I do). I don't use IE because it is less secure and not as user friendly (less intrusive) than the other browsers I use. People claim that IE has all the best elements, but have people realized that these elements first appeared in other browsers? IE isn't the best just because Microsoft says it so and it can be found on computers every where. However, I do use IE when I first reinstall Windows..need to download Firefox. Or I can always use portable Firefox to download my preferred browsers. The EU really should mind their own business. They have been in shambles every since they decided to use one currency as their standard. Hahaha, alot of good that did.
 
Anybody who's discussing making money in this thread is an idiot. How do they make money on these browsers? Microsoft sells Windows, they do not sell IE. Firefox is essentially coded by a charity. Safari is coded by idiots. Everything else is a Firefox wannabe. Forcing MS to include other browsers would in no way harm MS, any argument about Ford selling other people radios is misguided at best and an epic fail at worst.
 
[citation][nom]tuannguyen[/nom]I was responsible for SPENDING the money HP gave us for marketing. I didn't setup the MDF program between HP and my employer--that was done by much higher ups. I also did some minor website coding. I was in no position or authority to make any decisions over MDFs, except told how I should spend the money by the CEO.Besides, regardless of whether or not I disagreed with it, I was no position to make a scene. And you don't just walk from your employment because you disagree with something.You're making a whole lot of assumptions based on my example and my title to say that I was the decision maker.[/citation]
Mr. Tuan Nguyen, I am sorry if I offended you. Yes, I am working on assumptions here. As you say it is common practice in USA corporations. It might be legal in the letter of law that is heavily influenced by the same corporations. But our morals and principles are not for sell. It is still form of corruption. And every one of us has responsibility to stop this. I don't agree that you do not have responsibility here. No one can force you to betray your own conscience. So I still would like to call you to come clean and restore your creditability.
1. You need to come clean and make note in the original article “Intel Inflates CPU Prices says AMD. We Investigate” that you are considering the practice described shady and you do not condone it.
2. You need to make note to the current article that MS was not forced by EU to remove IE from Windows 7 in stead they did this on their own in order to cause backlash against EU Commission.
3. The current EU case is about MS behavior prior of 2008 and they have bundled IE and there is difference between bundling and pre-installing.

I believe that you have the power and the integrity to come clean and straighten the record. I hope you live to the higher standards.
 
[citation][nom]gxsolace[/nom]grammar fail much? last I checked the CEO or VP or other C-level made these decisions.[/citation]
But if you have integrity you can do many things to stop shady practices that are plaguing the USA corporations currently.
Here is several examples:
1. Request meeting with your CEO and remind him/her that this is form of corruption and he/she is not living to mission statement that all corporations have.
2. Be truthful to your self and your customer and recommend best solution instead of pushing the product that you get payed by the vendor.
3. You can become a whistle blower and attract media or regulatory authorities attention.
4. You can simply refuse to comply and if you get fired for that to sue the company back.
and many more.
Keeping quite, collecting bonuses and finding excuse that it was CEO's decision makes you equally responsible for ripping the client by pushing product that is not the best for the client.
 
[citation][nom]Derek2006[/nom]Why stop at apple, get them sued too. And linux distro makers will most likely not be able to pay those ridiculous fines, so say by by to linux. In today's world Microsoft can make the distros have a pop up or whatever to convince people to put their software in the distros OS. If they don't like it Microsoft can just sue them, it's the answer to everything.Microsoft can make all kinds of money if they figured out a better way to stop pirating. Currently there policy is something like, "We will give u a 10 second nag screen on startup, but you can still download updates etc." I would make it annoying and a pain to deal with. People will still pirate, mainly the enthusiast (not everyone, but I hope you know what I mean) which make up a small % of the market anyway. But make it harder for the average people to do it. Because right now anyone can do it easily. Microsoft make every update have a validation tool embedded. Makes the real hackers have to do a lot of work and makes people have to go find the cracked updates then, it would be a pain in the butt that people won't want to deal with.[/citation]

We all know it's slightly off topic, but piracy is a little impossible to solve because of a thing called "volume license".
 
"Tell that to all those who lived in the bolshevik controlled part, gratuitously offered at Yalta, you idiot."

Please explain.

And I'm suprised I didn't get more hate for my Yanks kick ass comment. Then again I did add Russians and Aussies in that comment (yeah and the Canadians too even though they are an unofficial US Colony LOL). The British were mad crazy back in the day but now... Sigh The EU just ruins everything.
 
[citation][nom]Ramar[/nom]We all know it's slightly off topic, but piracy is a little impossible to solve because of a thing called "volume license".[/citation]
Ya I know it was off topic, but he asked the question and I answered.

As far as I know volume license has a limit whether it be 100 or 1000 pcs, and on torrents where they are all using the same code that limit would be hit very fast and the volume license would become invalid.
 
I personally think its hight time people stand up fir their right and stop these group from imposing laws a that doesn't favor the majority.
It's very sad that MS has become a pray to the EU. What happens to Mac shipping it systems with Safari, any one fair judgment here?
Why is window allowed to run on Mac systems and Mac is not allowed to run on Windows just any any hardware?
These guys have been picking on MS in order to get money from them which is not fair nor justified.
 
I personally think its hight time people stand up fir their right and stop these group from imposing laws a that doesn't favor the majority.
It's very sad that MS has become a pray to the EU. What happens to Mac shipping it systems with Safari, any one fair judgment here?
Why is window allowed to run on Mac systems and Mac is not allowed to run on Windows just any any hardware?
These guys have been picking on MS in order to get money from them which is not fair nor justified.
 
I personally think its hight time people stand up fir their right and stop these group from imposing laws a that doesn't favor the majority.
It's very sad that MS has become a pray to the EU. What happens to Mac shipping it systems with Safari, any one fair judgment here?
Why is window allowed to run on Mac systems and Mac is not allowed to run on Windowsjust any any hardware?
These guys have been picking on MS in order to get money from them which is not fair nor justified.
 
I personally think its hight time people stand up fir their right and stop these group from imposing laws a that doesn't favor the majority.
It's very sad that MS has become a pray to the EU. What happens to Mac shipping it systems with Safari, any one fair judgment here?
Why is window allowed to run on Mac systems and Mac is not allowed to run on Windows just any any hardware?
These guys have been picking on MS in order to get money from them which is not fair nor justified.
 
I personally think its hight time people stand up fir their right and stop these group from imposing laws a that doesn't favor the majority.
It's very sad that MS has become a pray to the EU. What happens to Mac shipping it systems with Safari, any one fair judgment here?
Why is window allowed to run on Mac systems and Mac is not allowed to run on Windowsjust any any hardware?
These guys have been picking on MS in order to get money from them which is not fair nor justified.
 
I personally think its hight time people stand up for their right and stop these group from imposing laws a that doesn't favor the majority.
It's very sad that MS has become a pray to the EU. What happens to Mac shipping it systems with Safari, any one fair judgment here?
Why is window allowed to run on Mac systems and Mac is not allowed to run on Windows just any any hardware?
These guys have been picking on MS in order to get money from them which is not fair nor justified.
 
The facts are more simple than that.

¿Can you unisntall IE in Windows XP? NO. You can install Firefox or Opera, but can not unistall IE.

¿Will can you uninstall IE in Windows 7? Yes. Now, you have the choice.


This is the job of the EU, and they are doing well.
 
The facts are more simple than that.

¿Can you unisntall IE in Windows XP? NO. You can install Firefox or Opera, but can not unistall IE.

¿Will can you uninstall IE in Windows 7? Yes. Now, you have the choice.


This is the job of the EU, and they are doing well.
 
I don't know if you are too young to remember Tuan, or maybe you just don't know about it yet, but Microsoft won the browser wars using illegal tactics of pressure and taking advantage of its monopoly, not as you said at the end of your article, let me quote you:

"Let us be reminded that a long time ago, IE was the arm-pit of browsers, and Netscape was king. What happened there? What occurred was that Microsoft came up with a better and more convenient solution for end users. Period."

Maybe was more convenient because it was preinstalled, but I really doubt it was better...
 
[citation][nom]SAL-e[/nom]But if you have integrity you can do many things to stop shady practices that are plaguing the USA corporations currently.Here is several examples:1. Request meeting with your CEO and remind him/her that this is form of corruption and he/she is not living to mission statement that all corporations have.2. Be truthful to your self and your customer and recommend best solution instead of pushing the product that you get payed by the vendor.3. You can become a whistle blower and attract media or regulatory authorities attention.4. You can simply refuse to comply and if you get fired for that to sue the company back.and many more.Keeping quite, collecting bonuses and finding excuse that it was CEO's decision makes you equally responsible for ripping the client by pushing product that is not the best for the client.[/citation]

You really live in a field of dreams.
Saying all those things is really easy to type out buddy. Getting tossed into that situation itself is another issue. Say he was a whistle blower and then gets fired and sued the company, assuming! he had money to. Since the practice was deemed legal, the company can just sue him back big time and run him into the ground.

you're a moron. You think if you type out all these "ways" that it's actually as easy to do. And if he were even to successfully have the company go after by the government, what if the government hurts them too badly--since we don't know the company's size, that other innocent employees at the company get taken down along with the company?

you think that you're a deep thinker, but you're not.
 
I'm not sure if anyone realizes this, but a lot of programs (like iTunes and I think Steam as well) use IE as an embedded browser to display web content (such as the iTunes store). Itunes does not use Firefox or Chrome to do this because they aren't standard operating systems.

The EU is just whining about some petty BS that is practically irrelevant. And like many people have been saying, how am I supposed to choose other Web Browsers when I don't have a web browser to begin with. Also, why not attack Apple for ONLY packaging Safari with their OS?
 
The EU is already crying about MS's decision to remove the browser. I bet before it's all said and done they will try to make MS ship Win 7 with all browser choices except for IE.

They're all just a bunch of Fascist, Socialist, Communist pigs running the EU and most of the European governments, too. They’re just getting fat with cash while claiming to help the little guy by leveling the playing field. There is just no way to make anything fair when all you are doing is knocking everyone down to the same size. By the way, this is the only way to level the playing field. You can’t raise everyone up, you can only knock them down. Even if you could, then everyone would be the same any people would bitch about that just as much. When will people learn.
 
I'm getting sick of people trying to claim Microsoft is a monopoly so let me explain what a monopoly is.

A monopoly would be a company that is the only one selling their type of product. One example is Microsoft's OS, Windows. There is Mac OSX and some other smaller OS's that compete. Microsoft sells a game console and there are other companies like Sony and Nintendo competing with them. Microsoft sells a media player, Zune, and there are other companies selling them such as Apple and Samsung.
 
People have short memories. Microsoft put Netscape out of business by offering a "free" browser. I'm not sure why the EU wants to ban IE from windows 7, probably a distrust of American Companies and the US in general. Otherwise why is Europe implementing their own GPS satellite system?
Microsoft is a company that needs watching. They *do* have approx. 90% of the market and therefore in a different category than the Apples and Linux's of the world. The power of Microsoft is enormous. Many companies use their products just because they are Microsoft.

I am puzzled why people are complaining about requiring the IE browser to load device drivers, other browsers ,etc. If you can't easily figure that one out you have no business installing operating systems.
 
[citation][nom]Kewl Munky[/nom]A monopoly would be a company that is the only one selling their type of product.[/citation]
Wrong. A monopoly is a company that has such a huge amount of market share that they exert tremendous influence in that market, such that they can leverage their clout to make competition unfair for anyone else in the market.

[citation][nom][/nom]Also, why not attack Apple for ONLY packaging Safari with their OS?[/citation]
Because the issue isn't that MS only packaged IE to the exclusion of other browsers. The issue raised by Opera was that IE used their univerally adopted OS to inflate the adoption of their web browser, and since that browser was pretty lousy at rendering things properly in addition to having a lot of non-standard markup designed for it, other browsers had to put extra effort into trying to adhere to MS's design and web developers coded to IE's needs rather than web standards.

All of this is explained pretty much everywhere except in Tuan's opinion piece. It's not that MS only bundles IE, as you seem to think. And it's not that MS bundles a browser at all, as some other people seem to think ("OMG WHY NOT GO AFTUR APPUL 4 SAFARREE?").
 
I think everyone here, including the author, has missed the entire point of the reason behind the EU's original filing, and why it continued to go against Microsoft. Yes, having a browser installed by default is in fact handy to have. No, Microsoft should NOT be forced to include other browsers... that's strangling a fair market economy.

The reason why the EU originally ruled to remove it entirely was because Microsoft made it so that you could not in fact uninstall IE. IE is so heavily integrated into windows that if you try to remove IE it will inherently "brick" the install. Then, Microsoft began using their monopoly powers to create websites that "Worked best in IE"... that is also strangling a fair market economy. The author here is correct... the EU should not be forcing Microsoft to remove IE8. What SHOULD be required is to force Microsoft to make it an option to uninstall after the fact. I never use IE except to download Chrome and Firefox before that and Netscape before that... oh and to go on the 2 websites or so that have horrid ActiveX loaded in them.

In short... the EU is wrong, and the author is wrong, and over 60% of the people commenting here are wrong. Linux and OS X give you the opportunity to remove their packaged web browsers after the fact. I'm sure if Apple was in a similar position of power as Microsoft, they would have done the same thing, so they are not innocent in this. They just HAVE to allow the removal of safari in order to please the 15% of us who don't want to have a web browser integrated into the core of the system.

The other thing is... many times in the past and present a good amount of security issues in windows arise from the integration of the browser and the rest of the system. People can remotely take over systems by exploiting bugs in IE. This rarely happens in 3rd party browsers (with the exception of plugins like java and flash). I imagine a lot of Microsoft's energy that is used on patching remote code exploitation bugs could have been spent separating and sandboxing IE (similar to how finally IE8 handles things) to prevent much of this in the first place.
 
Msmollin Microsoft was already going to implement being able to remove IE completely before the EU bitched. I think you missed the main point, not everyone else.
 
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