OP: Why Microsoft is Innocent with IE8

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seeing as how micro$haft has made sure that internet explorer is deeply embedded into the operating system users should simply be able to open explorer and type in the web address to get to web sites. i've uninstalled IE before with XP and the underlying engine never leaves the system. just open my computer and type in what you want, should work... if not, pm me or something and i'll figure out another alternative.
for those of you that may need this step by step...
click "start
then click "My computer"
then in the address bar at the top just type in your desired location *cough http://www.mozilla.com cough* voila.
 
I gotta say... I'm with microsoft on this one. There's nothing wrong with installing internet explorer by default. I think microsoft did the right thing. The EU needs to back down from their MS witch hunt.
 
>> "How would you connect to the internet to download your browser of choice?"

I agree that it would be no picnic given the continuing demise of pre-Web document indexing protocols, and the lack of users' awareness of those which remain, but the Web is not the only way to make use of the Internet.
 
I see a lot of ignorant sounding posts that make my head hurt. perhaps some people live in lala land and are on crack (EU.. im looking in your direction...)
as far as i can tell, microsoft is a business like any other business who has used faul practices to control the market and they have been crusified for that practice. Im sure the EU could always milk China for money since that country is rolling in the dough. that practice works quite well for the US, but the US does buy a lot of Chinese goods:)
 
[citation][nom]misiu_mp[/nom]The whole Europe without Microsoft? What a dream! Me wants! Please microsoft, go! And never come back. We don't need you!http://www.strategicsourceror.com/ [...] ource.html[/citation]
Hmmm...

Let's analyze this. What would happen if MS abandoned Europe?

People would need another OS, and since most non-tech people are scared of Linux, that means Apple will take over the market. So that means:

a. Congratulations! You've just doubled the price of an off-the-shelf, plug-it-in-and-use-it computer for the average buyer.

b. Apple will soon become the de facto monopoly in Europe. If the EU hated MS business practices, what do you think they'll say about Apple's all in-house system?

c. You've just made Apple alot bigger, and now its a prime target for hackers. Say hello to viruses/trojans/et al, as now they have a market share worth attacking.

MS suddenly going away is the worst thing that can happen to Apple (or Linux, for that matter). There are distinct advantages to being smaller, advantages Apple is great at exploiting. Could they handle a rapid rise to being the big boy? I don't think their business model could deal with it.
 
You can still download files (installers) from the internet without using a browser via the command line. Maybe the EU is assuming that all the people in Europe are that "intelligent". What a douche!
 
EU is completely valid .. because Internet Explorer is INTEGRATED into the operating system.

You can't get rid of the damn thing.

If I'm in Linux, Mac OS X, etc, I can just drag Safari/Firefox to the recycle bin and be done with it...

My two cents..
 
Anybody with any computer experience whatsoever in the EU should have figured this out in the beginning. It was my first thought as soon as I saw what they were doing. Are they really that ignorant??
 
[citation][nom]everlast66[/nom]GREAT NEWS !!!Years ago Microsoft used their monopoly position on the operation systems market to push out of the market Netscape. There is no argument about that! In the folowing years they continued to try pushing other competitors from the market and thats why they were fined repeatedly !!IF MICROSOFT CARED THAT MUCH FOR THEIR CUSTOMERS THEY WOULD HAVE OFFERED A CHOICE OF BROUSERS FROM DIFERENT MANIFACTURERS!!!But they did not! They care only for their market, PREFERRED TO HAVE GREATER SHARE OF THE MARKET RATHER THAN PROVIDE CUSTOMERS WITH CHOICE !!And this is illegal as thay have MONOPOLY on the OS market! This is why the EU authorities had to intervene.And now MS decided that if customers are not having IE thay are not having anything. Its interesting to se now when customers will have to go out and find a browser themselves if IE is going to keep their 70% share - I believe NOT !!!For the people that keep asking how thay can go online without IE (this actually shows how well some people have been brainwashed) but PC manufacturers could bundle PCs with Firefox, Chrome, Opera etc!!!THIS IS FAIR MARKET!!!![/citation]

Years ago, Netscape was not free. MS developed a browser and included it with their OS. Free. ie at that time was a poor substitute, so many users still bought Netscape. IE got better, Netscape became more bloated, their market dried up. Fair market.

Then along came XP. IE was now included as part of the OS. EC started getting bitter about this at that time. Fair market? Not really, but MS cried 'too hard' when requested to remove the IE code from the OS. Vista came along, and IE was no longer part of the OS. Very difficult to remove, but could be done without crippling the OS. Now W7 comes along and removing IE is simple. EC is still not happy, so MS makes the decision to sell an 'E' version with no browser. Will EC be happy? Probably not. Fair market? MS does not want to have to support every piddling browser on the market, and rightly so. So from my perspective it is fair.

Off topic (not really) my bank's secure website only supports IE. I prefer Opera. So I called the bank, talked to their security staff and asked why their site was not allowing Opera. 'we're not going to support every browser out there, we spent several man-years developing a secure solution'. Fair? I could change banks, or just only bank during business hours in the bank itself. Point? MS is not holding a gun to any user's head and making them buy Windows. Opera (and FF) has installed just fine on XP, Vista and W7, MS just does not include them. I could see an issue if MS wouldn't allow other browsers to install...
 
"The majority of people don't even know about other browsers. The Joe-Average. Like one commenter pointed out, many don't even know about Firefox, Chrome, Opera. The people who will pick another browser other than IE are the ones like you and others here. The ones that KNOW. And the ones that KNOW already use something else!"

And we have a WINNER! There goes that arguement.. To think the average joe that doesn't know about firefox is just gonna start using it because it became an option.. Is just plain stupid. He's gonna use what he is fimilar with IE... Ya, their are expections to the rule, but not enough to justify what microsoft would want to do.

Love or hate microsoft.. Their in the right on this one.
 
EU = money grubbing, back stabbing, self-serving SOBs. If we want to talk about monopoly... let's talk about the EU in itself. Quite the monopoly. I think the US and American companies should sue EU companies.
 
[citation][nom]WheelsOfConfusion[/nom]I must have missed how Ford is using it's monopoly position in the auto world to make competition for head units unfair and stifle improvement in head unit space.[/citation]
I must have missed how Microsoft is using its government-redefined "monopoly position" (weren't many EU governments switching to Linux? its almost like linux is a viable competitive alternative or something...) to make competition for browsers unfair and stifle improvement in the browser space.

For the record, everyone bashing MS here is the same type of person to declare how such-and-such browser is better. Gee, doesn't seem to stifle competition much then, does it? In fact, I'd say it encourages it, because it forces companies to come up with something better than what is bundled with Windows. If it wasn't for the fact that IE is both free and bundled, I don't think freeware browsers would be anywhere near what they are. If MS had *no browser*, I bet you'd get a crappy ad supported browser for free, and have to pay for a real one.

Now go back to drinking the kool aid. Friend Computer demands it.
 
[citation][nom]peacock[/nom]You really live in a field of dreams.Saying all those things is really easy to type out buddy. Getting tossed into that situation itself is another issue. Say he was a whistle blower and then gets fired and sued the company, assuming! he had money to. Since the practice was deemed legal, the company can just sue him back big time and run him into the ground.you're a moron. You think if you type out all these "ways" that it's actually as easy to do. And if he were even to successfully have the company go after by the government, what if the government hurts them too badly--since we don't know the company's size, that other innocent employees at the company get taken down along with the company?you think that you're a deep thinker, but you're not.[/citation]
No, tell me were in my post I sad it is easy?! No, it is not easy at all. I have been in situation where I was tempted to break the law and violate my principles in order to gain political influence and protection plus money. I could not sleep for 4 days. But I did the right thing. Do you know what the result was? The people who were applying the pressure quickly folded back. Why? Because they are cowards and they were abusing their current power. In country where I come from, there is a say: "If you want to see the real nature of the person, give him a power"
If I went with them, I was going to be tossed in the garbage 2 years later when they lost the election.
I might be moron in your eyes, but I prefer to be moron, instead to be a sheep and slave. If you can not take actions that you think are correct you have no freedom you are slave.
 
Here we go again, great to see so many people basing their comments on someone else's opinion, and not on the facts. Please read the EU's actual case against Microsoft before posting the usual anti EU drivel! Or if you are to lazy to read the history of the case covering Microsoft's abuse of its position since 1996, just read the current response from the EU commission on Microsoft's Windows 7 threat: http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=MEMO/09/272&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en
 
Here we go again, great to see so many people basing their comments on someone else's opinion, and not on the facts. Please read the EU's actual case against Microsoft before posting the usual anti EU drivel! Or if you are to lazy to read the history of the case covering Microsoft's abuse of its position since 1996, just read the current response from the EU commission on Microsoft's Windows 7 threat: http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=MEMO/09/272&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en
 
[citation][nom]Lan[/nom]Why should Microsoft have to pay extra money and time to their developers to have them include a competitors product? The EU should pay Microsoft if they want that choice. Microsoft did the right thing to comply with the problem.You rip out IE, and the problem is solved, while at the same time making it difficult for the EU.[/citation]

"Hell yeah!" just doesn't quite explain how right you are. The author wrote a great, logical article, and you summed up the underlying foundation of it in just a few lines.

Couldn't agree more with both of you. MS is trying to allow competition. The new wizard for IE8 lets you choose whatever search engine you want, and even provides a list. But requiring actually software to be put on a disk for web browser options? Seriously, it takes a mere few minutes to download whatever browser you want.

You don't see them going after Apple for this, even though you can buy a Mac in Europe. Because you're "elite" you don't have to follow the same rules as the more common OS? Just because Apple's smaller doesn't mean they shouldn't have to follow any of these rules. If you're going to go after one, you have to go after them all, or you're just targeting the biggest corporation hoping for some settlement money.
 
Um, is the article author completely bonkers?

It was MICROSOFT who decided to remove IE. The EU did NOT ask Microsoft to do it. As a matter of fact, the EU wanted several browsers to be bundled with Windows.

So once again, the staunch Microsoft-zealots have failed to even understand what's going on.

Amazing!
 
[citation][nom]phim[/nom]Um, is the article author completely bonkers?It was MICROSOFT who decided to remove IE. The EU did NOT ask Microsoft to do it. As a matter of fact, the EU wanted several browsers to be bundled with Windows.So once again, the staunch Microsoft-zealots have failed to even understand what's going on.Amazing![/citation]
If you read Tuan's past article, you will know he loves apple more than microsoft
 
It's not UE's fault that microsoft lacks a universal installer like todays Linux distributions does. A simple tool and you can install majority for applications, there was a person who would have given microsoft a such tool, but no, it's too user friendly to have something like that.
 
wOOt!!!
The EU is NOT bashing MS; it is telling MS to obey the rules.
You might not like the EU rules..... but that is just tough doodoo.

Maybe if it ships without Bill's Browser, ppl will stay away from Win 7 altogether; which is fine with me.
 
[citation][nom]nachowarrior[/nom]seeing as how micro$haft has made sure that internet explorer is deeply embedded into the operating system users should simply be able to open explorer and type in the web address to get to web sites. i've uninstalled IE before with XP and the underlying engine never leaves the system. just open my computer and type in what you want, should work... if not, pm me or something and i'll figure out another alternative.for those of you that may need this step by step...click "startthen click "My computer" then in the address bar at the top just type in your desired location *cough http://www.mozilla.com cough* voila.[/citation]

Um, that's because IE is still installed. You can't do that if MS unbundles IE...
 
Guys you do understand that the decision to remove IE 8 was Microsoft's own remedy right? It was not ordered by the EC.

Offering competing browsers is not suicide at all, unless you believe Internet explorer is completely useless. Actually, offering competing browsers at first boot could be a good remedy for undoing the damage the illegal tying of IE had all these years.
 
Why should an OS come with a browser? An OS operates a computer, it doesn't guarantee access to the world wide web.

If you want an internet browser, why not BUY ONE. At the same store you buy Windows.

I think that is what the EU is thinking, for those who can't figure it out.
 
[citation][nom]CopperBot[/nom]"Microsoft never forbid me and doesn't forbid anyone from using a different browser."This is true, but the average computer user still isn't aware of the fact that there ARE other browsers. If you think I'm full of it by saying that think about how big the tech support industry is. For every one of us that's computer savvy and on top of it there are scores of others that just want to sit down and have their computer work.That said, none of these people are ever going to think twice about using IE because they wont even know there are other options available to them. I always like to use my mother as an example. Shes a smart and inquisitive woman who enjoys using her computer for things like photos, sending email, etc... but she doesn't know the first thing about good PC maintenance.Naturally all of you have a point that without a base browser to get online to begin with how will you be able to go download another one... but that line of thinking is exactly what Microsoft has been banking on for years. Why not have software bundles available to choose from when you purchase your new computer? Why can't I go in and say: "Ok, I'm buying a new laptop with windows 7 and for my free software bundle I'll choose the one that comes with Firefox, Nero, etc blah blah blah" Have your employees on hand educating consumers about their options so they can choose wisely. Don't just give them one option and keep shoving the product out the front door...[/citation]

who cares if people dont know about other browsers? i mean i dont know about all editing software for graphics or all the browsers available big deal? ever hear of advertising? if they cant do that then well as far as im concerned out of luck. its not the job of companys to edjucate people on other peoples products thats just stupid. Thinking it matters if they do so is as stupid. MS did what anyone who wants anyone to use or if they want to sell thier products. they put it in thier product and advertised the crap out of it. Personaly i hate all the so called other top browers they work like crap display pages wrong and are just plain slow for me. i want to use IE just like i want to use trillian instead of AIM. if they arent edjucated enough to know something else is out there show them dont think for one second its the responcability of apple to say hey you could use firefox instead of ours or perhaps oprah or o yeah howe about chrome? thats just idiotic. all microsoft is guilty of here is selling the product they made.
 
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