Order of things

[Tim]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hi,

Situation
----------

Player 1:
Life 8
2 x Isochron Scepters with Boomerang imprinted
8 untapped islands

Player 2:
Life: 3
4 Mountains
5 Islands

Player 2's turn.
Announces a lava burst where x will equal 8 (RX - would do 8 damage)

Player 1 responds to announcement by boomeranging two mountains.

What happens?
----------------
Does Player 2 have to tap all his mana and
a) the spell fizzles, or
b) damage = 6, or
c) something else entirely

Or does Player 2 not have to pay the full cost?

Probably a stupid question - and for that I'm sorry. Still, actual ruling
would assist.


Thanks,
Tim

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Tim" <tim@blah.com> writes:
> Player 1:
> Life 8
> 2 x Isochron Scepters with Boomerang imprinted
> 8 untapped islands
>
> Player 2:
> Life: 3
> 4 Mountains
> 5 Islands
>
> Player 2's turn.
> Announces a lava burst where x will equal 8 (RX - would do 8 damage)
>
> Player 1 responds to announcement by boomeranging two mountains.

Okay, although that won't do him much good.

> What happens?
> ----------------
> Does Player 2 have to tap all his mana and
> a) the spell fizzles, or
> b) damage = 6, or
> c) something else entirely
>
> Or does Player 2 not have to pay the full cost?

None of those. When Player 2 announces the spell, he declares the
value of X and pays the costs right then (by playing mana abilities if
needed and then paying the mana from his mana pool). (That's all a
part of the announcement of a spell.) Anything done to the lands won't
affect the spell once it's been played. Player 1 needs to counter the
spell or gain life or something in response in order to save himself.

> Probably a stupid question - and for that I'm sorry. Still, actual ruling
> would assist.

Well, there really aren't stupid rules questions. Please ask again if
you need more clarification or if you have more questions.

--
Peter C.
"When you personally get an IP address, it's time to let go of the wire."
-- Me

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Tim wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Situation
> ----------
>
> Player 1:
> Life 8
> 2 x Isochron Scepters with Boomerang imprinted
> 8 untapped islands
>
> Player 2:
> Life: 3
> 4 Mountains
> 5 Islands
>
> Player 2's turn.
> Announces a lava burst where x will equal 8 (RX - would do 8 damage)

Okay. In order to pay for this, Player 2 must RIGHT NOW tap
all his lands to get the requisite mana into his mana pool.
The mana is then removed from his mana pool to pay for the
Burst.
>
> Player 1 responds to announcement by boomeranging two mountains.
>
> What happens?
> ----------------
> Does Player 2 have to tap all his mana

You don't tap mana; you tap lands. Player 2 has by this point
long since tapped all his lands to pay for the Burst.

> and
> a) the spell fizzles, or
> b) damage = 6, or
> c) something else entirely

The Lava Burst resolves absolutely normally. The mana has been
generated and used before Player 1 can even play the Scepters'
ability, let alone have it resolve.
>
> Or does Player 2 not have to pay the full cost?

Player 2 has ALREADY paid the full cost; had he not done so,
he couldn't have played the Burst.
>
> Probably a stupid question - and for that I'm sorry. Still, actual ruling
> would assist.
>
>
Since Lava Burst is a Sorcery, the smart thing to do would've been
to Boomerang his lands during his upkeep, when he can't play the
Burst. That way he doesn't have enough lands to play the Burst
(or Fireball, or Blaze, or whatever--if it's a burn deck, it's
gonna have X spells, and you don't want to see an X spell with X=8)
with X=8.

--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 00:05:06 +1100, Tim <tim@blah.com> wrote:
>Player 1:
> Life 8
> 2 x Isochron Scepters with Boomerang imprinted
> 8 untapped islands
>
>Player 2:
> Life: 3
> 4 Mountains
> 5 Islands
>
>Player 2's turn.
> Announces a lava burst where x will equal 8 (RX - would do 8 damage)
>
>Player 1 responds to announcement by boomeranging two mountains.
>
>What happens?

The Lava Burst, which was already announced and is already on the stack, is
totally unaffected by the Boomerang. The Boomerang cannot possibly be used
WHILE player 2 is announcing the Lava Burst, and cannot interfere in any way
with player 2's paying of the costs; Boomerang is not a counterspell. The
Scepter's use, assuming 2 had priority to announce the Burst, can't even be
announced until 2 is DONE announcing the Burst, and has gotten priority again,
and has -passed- priority.

Short form: the Boomerang will go onto the stack on top of the Burst, after
the Scepter ability (which was also on the stack on top of the Burst) has
resolved and let him copy the Boomerang card and play it. The Boomerang will
resolve before the Burst does and return two Mountains; the Burst, which has
long since been paid for, will not care about that, and will later resolve and
deal 8 damage to player 1. Player 1 will lose the game right after the Burst is
done resolving.

>Does Player 2 have to tap all his mana and
> a) the spell fizzles, or
> b) damage = 6, or
> c) something else entirely

c) something else entirely. Player 2 _already did_ get all his mana and pay for
the Burst. Player 1 can't even USE the Scepter, in this scenario, until the
Burst is on the stack and completely paid for. The spell will not "fizzle" -
get countered for illegal target - unless its target becomes illegal in
response; the size of X was denoted on announcement, and won't change partway
through; and you can't "retroactively" try to interfere with a cost that has
already been paid.

>Probably a stupid question - and for that I'm sorry. Still, actual ruling
>would assist.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

David DeLaney <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:
>The Boomerang will
>resolve before the Burst does and return two Mountains;

....well, technically, each of the two Boomerangs made by the two Scepters
(each of which had a Boomerang imprinted) will return _one_ Mountain. Nothing
here gives one Boomerang a magic power to affect more than one target. But
you probably knew what I meant...

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Tim]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

<Just read the thread: Two Noobie Questions> This is editted from my
other similar-looking post on that thread.

I wish I'd read that before I posted the "this" thread.

So, to answer my own query:

- Player 2 announces the lava burst (and pays the cost, x=8!). Passes
priority to Player 1.

- Player 1 announces and pays the cost of 2 x boomerangs (instants on two
isochrons), targetting two mountains of Player 2.

Player 1 passes.

Player 2 passes.

Being FIFO, the two isochron'ed Boomerangs resolve, the effect of which
sends two mountains back to Player 2's hand.

The Lava Burst resolves, with 8 damage, the effect of which lava bursts
Player 1 to the Nine Hells.

<state based effect - Player 1 loses. End of game>


Right?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Tim <tim@blah.com> wrote:

> Right?

Perfectly right.

- ∞

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, Tim wrote:

> <Just read the thread: Two Noobie Questions> This is editted from my
> other similar-looking post on that thread.
>
> I wish I'd read that before I posted the "this" thread.
>
> So, to answer my own query:
>
> - Player 2 announces the lava burst (and pays the cost, x=8!). Passes
> priority to Player 1.
>
> - Player 1 announces and pays the cost of 2 x boomerangs (instants on two
> isochrons), targetting two mountains of Player 2.

Well, he announces them one at a time but he can indeed respond to
himself without passing priority. And the scepter-ability targets
nothing, the boomerang will but it isn't played yet.

> Player 1 passes.
>
> Player 2 passes.
>
> Being FIFO, the two isochron'ed Boomerangs resolve, the effect of which
> sends two mountains back to Player 2's hand.

Only the last played scepter-ability resolves and player 1 gets a
chance to play a copy of a Boomerang without paying its mana cost.
Let's assume he does targetting a mountain.

Player 2 (being the active player!) passes.

Player 1 passes.

The copy of the Boomerang resolves returning a mountain to its owners
hand.

Player 2 passes.

Player 1 passes.

The first played scepter-ability resolves and player 1 gets a chance
to play a copy of a Boomerang without paying its mana cost. Let's
assume he doesn't.

Player 2 passes.

Player 1 passes.

Then we go on with:

> The Lava Burst resolves, with 8 damage, the effect of which lava bursts
> Player 1 to the Nine Hells.
>
> <state based effect - Player 1 loses. End of game>
>
>
> Right?

Not exactly.

--
David

 

[Tim]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

> Since Lava Burst is a Sorcery, the smart thing to do would've been
> to Boomerang his lands during his upkeep, when he can't play the
> Burst. That way he doesn't have enough lands to play the Burst
> (or Fireball, or Blaze, or whatever--if it's a burn deck, it's
> gonna have X spells, and you don't want to see an X spell with X=8)
> with X=8.

But he ( I <sheepish grin>) didn't know that there was a lava burst in his
hand. And I had his critters to worry about. All done and dusted now.
We'll get it right next time.

Thanks for your help - I've said it before and I'll say it again - what an
amazingly helpful group this is. Compare this to any other troll-laden
group and this is pure heaven!

Tim