P4 3010... the ultimate rip off...

[Guest]

------------------
Processor
P4 : 3,010MHz
XP : 1,666MHz
Diff : 1,344MHz (80.7%) ***
------------------
Cost (newegg.com on 1/18/02)
P4 : $570 (OEM - 2,200MHz)
XP : $302 (OEM - 2000+)
Diff : $268 (88.7%) ***
------------------
Q3 Test 1
P4 : 308.2fps
XP : 245.2fps
Diff : 63fps (25.7%)
------------------
Q3 Test 2
P4 : 216.9fps
XP : 200.0fps
Diff : 16.9fps (8.5%)
------------------
3DMark2000
P4 : 10843
XP : 10460
Diff : 383 (3.7%)
------------------
3DMark2001
P4 : 7771
XP : 7348
Diff : 423 (5.8%)
------------------
MPEG Lame Encoding
P4 : 122secs
XP : 170secs
Diff : 48secs (28.2%)
------------------
Flask Divx Encoding
P4 : 37.94fps
XP : 32.79fps
Diff : 5.15fps (15.7%)
------------------
SiSoft Dhrystone
P4 : 3686
XP : 2311
Diff : 1375 {59.5%)
------------------
SiSoft Whetstone
P4 : 5840
XP : 4557
Diff : 1283 (28.2%)
------------------
SiSoft Integer
P4 : 14798
XP : 10724
Diff : 4074 (38.0%)
------------------
SiSoft Floating Point
P4 : 11950
XP : 9340
Diff : 2610 (27.9%)
------------------
SiSoft Memory... pointless, it's the age old RDRAM vs. SDRAM
------------------
...
------------------
...

That's enough, the numbers work out for all the other tests they ran to prove the same point...

So, just so I have this straight, and Intel people, feel free to correct me if I am wrong... I have to buy a chip for 88% more money and then overclock it using a water cooler (even more money) just to get these small gains in performance over a stock AMD chip? None of the gains in performance even come close to making up for the cost of the P4... let alone the cost of the watercooler you have to add to get said gains.

 

[Raystonn]

Or you can simply grab a 2GHz Northwood and use standard air cooling. Most people are getting between 2.5GHz and 2.8GHz with air cooling. If you want to go grab a <A HREF="http://www.vapochill.com" target="_new">Vapochill</A> you should be able to get somewhere around 3.5GHz, but it might require a voltage mod to the motherboard. The TH7-II would be suitable for this with the mod. It all depends how [H]ardcore you are. The difference in price between the 1.67GHz Athlon XP and the Pentium 4 2.0A would be about $65 or so.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =

 

[somerandomguy]

Is the Northwood with water cooling expensive? Yes.
Is it worth the extra money? Well that really depends on the person.
Some people are happy to spend that much money so long as they are getting the best. Personally I'd say that the 2000+ is horribly overpriced when you look at its performance advantage over a 1600+ processor, but that's just me.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."

 

[Intel_inside]

lol.. yeah what a ripoff.. The p4 is faster, and it costs more..

If you want to make your benchmarks valid throw in some sse-2 apps.

<i>The devil's advocate</i>

 

[Guest]

Hum...personaly I think that it's pointless to overclock a CPU like that. It make me think of the guy beside is new car with a nitro injection... Except the pleasure of "showing of" what's the deal about it? My vision of overclocking is to make a CPU last a bit more in the end of it's life by squeezing the last drop of performance and to save a bit of money. But this is not overclocking, it's CPU toture! I'm not even sure that water cooling is enough for that much overclocking. Whatever, i'm not the kind of guy that will pay a expensive water cooler for showing of is P4 or XP ultra-super-higly overclocked CPU!

See ya!

AMD vs Intel : the misinformation war! :tongue:

 

[somerandomguy]

I am also not into heavily into overclocking (unless the computer is 2 years old, and could really use that extra performance). However, I enjoy discussing and reading about overclocking. After all, overclockers are often the best judges of hardware quality.
I think the only reason they got such a good overclock with a water cooler is because they put the heat exchanger outside the window in the middle of a nice Austrian winter.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."

 

[Guest]

the point is, it costs unGodly more for the P4 (88%), and on top of that you have to add a water cooler to it.

as for sse... Umm... the article in question covers SiSoft which in plain englishin the pretty charts says sse and sse2...

thanks for backing me up even when you didn't mean to.

 

[somerandomguy]

Speaking of "plain englishin", what language is that exactly?
Intel insides point is valid, you have to pay for the best, it's just a question of whether or not the best is worth that extra money to you.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."

 

[Guest]

yeah! for sure!

AMD vs Intel : the misinformation war! :tongue:

 

[Raystonn]

Again, the 2GHz Northwood is about $65 more than the 1.67GHz Athlon, which is their top of the line. Air cooling will allow you to surpass the performance of the top of the line processors from both companies.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =

 

[Ganache]

Depends, here in canada

P4 2Ghz s478 retail = 707$

XP 2000+ ( 1.67Ghz ) retail = 550 $

add the 210 $ more for 512mb rambus vs 512mb DDR and still more for the MOBO and it cost a lot more to NOT have better performance .

 

[Raystonn]

We are talking about OEM prices here, not retail. Check <A HREF="http://www.pricewatch.com" target="_new">http://www.pricewatch.com</A> for the best of these prices. From where do you get your Canadian prices? A single vendor?

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =

 

[Matisaro]

Even with the overclock the system as a whole will not perform better %wise than the % cost increase.


His 70 bucks is better invested in a faster videocard or more ram, Period.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!

 

[Red_Zealot]

Raystonn, when did you start advocating OC'ing? I always thought you were on the other side of that spectrum....

I would really like to see some benchmarks from a Palomino with liquid Nirogen against this P4...The difference, as the original post said, was maybe 20% between the P4 uberproc and the XP 2000...An OC of maybe 500MHz or so to 2.2 GHz using liquid nitrogen, and I don't think there should be a problem with the XP against the Northwood.

On the other hand, I'm surprised reviewers aren't making more noise about the 2.2 Northie and the Palomino...After all, ALMOST EVERY person won't have the aggressive water-cooling setup, or even want to OC their stuff....

"If you teach a child to read, then he or her will be able to pass a literacy test" - George W.

 

[Guest]

What I wan´t to now is the benchmarks for resolutions above 1024x768. THG always use that 640x480 thing to impress people. The graphic card is the bottleneck in any system above say 1.4 ghz today. Quite frankly I did expect better numbers I mean 16 fps extra with a 1.4 ghz lead isn´t really impressive att all just embarrasing. The 383 point difference in 3Dmark 2000 makes this all too clear. This makes you wonder if THG isn´t bought by Intel to make statements like "the future of cpus" bla bla bla...

 

[lagger]

FWIW... Last Thursday I purchased an Intel NW 2.a ghz from googlegear retail box (I wanted the warranty)for 399.00 USD in the 4 days since then the price has dropped twice and the retail version is now at 375.00 USD the oem bare processor is down to 353.00 USD and the price for that has also fallen .. I expect there will be a few more reductions as production is ramped up making these new intel cpu's more attractive.

lagger

<b><font color=blue>Computers run on smoke, I let the smoke out of mine and it quit working </b> </font color=blue>

 

[Matisaro]

Raystonn, when did you start advocating OC'ing? I always thought you were on the other side of that spectrum....

6-12 months ago
AMD= good overclocking
INtel=bad overclocking
Raystonn=overclocking is dangerous and bad.


Today
AMD=bad overclocking
INtel=good overclocking
Raystonn= Overclocking is perfectly safe and a good idea.


Its plainly obvious why he changed his mind, but ill let the facts speak for themselves instead of accusing people of anything.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!

 

[Raystonn]

Wrong. I have always advocated overclocking. I began my overclocking endeavors years ago with a Celeron 300A. I have always been of the opinion that overclocking your processor is good and not very dangerous. Overclocking your memory is more dangerous and you must ensure very high quality RAM, otherwise you could end up with data integrity issues.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =

 

[AMD_Man]

Overclocking your memory is more dangerous and you must ensure very high quality RAM, otherwise you could end up with data integrity issues.

Hmm, and that's why you recommend Samsung PC800 to run at PC1066? Hmm, sounds dangerous to me. Hmm, something is very fishy here. You can't guarantee Samsung PC800 can run at 533MHz or PC1066 and yet you recommend it? Very fishy... And worse yet, you compare it in price to premium quality PC2700 which is designed to run at 166MHz. Very very fishy.... Agh, ewww, what's that awful stench?

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[taylanator]

rayston is A little bit irrational sometimes, he says things and then has to be corrected, of course I guess I'm kinda like that too, but the difference is that he acts like the GOD of all computers. lol

taylor

 

[Raystonn]

The reason I recommend Samsung PC800 is I have tested it extensively and all modules thusfar have passed at PC1066 speeds. I would not recommend anything I had not tested.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =

 

[Raystonn]

rayston is A little bit irrational sometimes,

Give me one example.

he says things and then has to be corrected,

Not often. Give me one example that you have seen recently.

of course I guess I'm kinda like that too,

Comparing yourself to me?

I will be back later tonight to read more, so do not expect any further replies on this for a while.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =

 

[taylanator]

this is exactly why I think that think you are the computer GOD!
"Comparing yourself to me?"

oh gee how dare I, what was I thinking comparing myself to your majesty? I am deeply sorry.

 

[AMD_Man]

That's like saying that you got your 2.2GHz Northwood to 3GHz so everyone else will be able to do it. Again, not guaranteed.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[Ncogneto]

You just love to live in the grey area don't you? Only until recently could even attempt to overclock an intel system without overclocking the memory. And if need be I can again clearly point out to where you stated that you never advocated overclocking of memory period!

Personally, I dont care if you changed your views on this that would be fine. However your failure to admit a reversal only harms your credibility in those eyes that have a decent memory of your earlier post's of 6 months to a year ago.

It's not what they tell you, its what they don't tell you!