P4 vs Athlon Review

[Guest]

This is a link to a good, balanced review of the two processors. Zealots in EITHER camp probably won't like it. (HINT: Probably means it's pretty objective. There is actually something for everybody). Would enjoy hearing comments on it.
http://www.tech-report.com/onearticle.x/2046

 

[Guest]

The conclusion says Athlon..

No new news to me...

 

[Guest]

Me neither...Kinda nukes the "Tom is biased argument" because it agrees with most of the points he made in his original take. Also does a good job of pointing out the strengths and weaknesses in both processors. But, you're right. Still comes out with AMD in the final analysis.

 

[Megatonone]

nothing wrong with being biased when you're right.

Megaton

 

[Guest]

Yes
I mean both processors are good..
I mean its just preference really, if you want the one who is cheaper and faster at a lower clockspeed like look

for god sakes the Athlon is at 1200 Mhz
the p4 has a 300MHz gain! 300 Mhz thats a big jump!

Not really comparing equal sides there...
but still the Atlon is very good it shows that.

Even if you say Oh the Pentium 4 is good in this by a tad,
even still its 1500 MHz compared to a 1200 Mhz processor
you would think the 1500 would prevail in all of them

 

[FUGGER]

My god, when will you people learn?

The current P4 is for development, Its about to change in many ways. Sure you can bench it all you want with non optimized software, weak FPU, reduced cache, wrong die size, not the final socket, initial speeds, and you can make a seventh generation AMD Tbird win.

At least let the damn thing mature into .13 micro before you spooge all over yourself.

I cant wait to bench Itanium vs Hammer software simulator. that should be fair huh?

I would give hammer same respect when it hits the market. give it some time to mature.

"AMD is preparing a new revision of the Athlon, code-named Palomino, that may or may not work properly in current Socket A motherboards." - this is news to me. =)

Better yet, I like how they leave out spec2000 bench where it destroys AMD.

Very biased article for AMD, you can tell in the first few paragraphs.

 

[FUGGER]

Also notice the system parts makeup.

THEY removed sound card from althon, and left it in P4.
very fair testing since we already know that Athlon systems scores are hurt when these devices are installed. hurt so bad that they must be removed for AMD Athlon to win. VERY FAIR TEST, NOT!

 

[Guest]

FUGGER
I am really starting to wonder if you can read....at all. But, I am not suprised that you don't like the article since it comes to the same conclusion that virtually every other one has come to: That for the time being the P-4 just isn't the best deal. And the version being tested is the one being SOLD right now (in reference to your non-optimized software, wrong socket, etc etc comment)so it's not like people are testing pre-market equipment. Intel chose to put it on the market in it's present form....Are you suggesting that they made a mistake and should have waited until they had it RIGHT? For everybody else, I hope it serves as some useful, objective information as opposed to useless "FUGGER fluff".

 

[Guest]

So, you're saying that P4 is a Beta chip?

Also, I'd really like a reference on that statement about PCI devices (soundcard) slowing down Athlons. I'm not being sarcatic ... I'd really be interested in that.

Thanks


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.

 

[Guest]

Fugger, They did not remove the sound card. "while our comparison systems varied only with respect to the motherboard, memory, and CPU. The Athlon DDR box looked like this" and they go on to list the compenents that differed between the two systems: Motherboard memory and CPU. Soundcard stayed the same. I suppose that you interpreted that part of the article as saying they did not have a hard drive inthe Athlon system either since it was not listed again.

 

[Guest]

> for god sakes the Athlon is at 1200 Mhz
> the p4 has a 300MHz gain! 300 Mhz thats a big jump!

Uhmmm, you realize that's irrelavent, right?

1 Mhz on PIII != 1 Mhz on TBird != 1 MHz on P4 != 1 Mhz Celeron, etc...

If you don't believe me, take a look at FPU benchmarks on DEC Alphas. They will SMOKE a TBird (not to mention PIII) @ only 600 MHz. 1.5GHz P4 with SSE optimized code comes close, but not quite.

Some SPEC FP results:
(from http://www.spec.org/osg/cpu2000/results/cfp2000.html)

CPU base peak "Normalized" peak
1.2 GHz TBird 387 417 348
1.0 GHz TBird 298 321 321
1.0 Ghz PIII 327 335 335
1.5 GHz PIV 549 558 372
667 MHz Alpha 514 577 865
833 MHz alpha 590 658 790

The "Normalized" result is obtained by scaling the result to a result for a 1 GHz cpu. This isn't realistic either of course, as is demonstrated by the 1.0 & 1.2 GHz athlon results

I retract my statement about the PIV results being SSE optimized. I'm sure I heard that, but the disclosures don't mention it. The result was submitted by Intel, so I'm sure they did everything they could for it.

In any case, demonstrates the folly of MHz comparisons across architectures.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by ergeorge on 03/06/01 03:57 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Guest]

ergeorge
That's a great point. From everything I can see it's going to get harder and harder to make MHz to MHz comparisons as new architectures come on line and the architectures become more different. And despite my needling FUGGER, I see potential for the P-4, especially as the really wind the clock speeds up/fix the FPU/etc.

 

[AmdMELTDOWN]

can I point something out, look at the benchmark tools they used some of them are not current ie. 2000, seriously if a benchmarking system does not use a processors full potential then I'll would dismiss it in a sec.

from Sisoft website.
<A HREF="http://www.sisoftware.demon.co.uk/sandra/index.htm" target="_new">
Sandra 2001 Released: The new Sandra has been released. It contains a wealth of new features and improvements. Most known issues with the
previous version have been resolved in this version. Here's a breakdown:

Enhanced (unofficial) support for Windows 200X & NT4.
Burn-in Wizard to test system stability.
Full Pentium 4 support and new SSE2 benchmarks (Whetstone, int/float Mandelbrot, int/float STREAM)
Full AMD DDR platform support and enhanced MMX/3DNow! benchmarks (int/float Mandelbrot)
Full current VIA chipset/south bridges support.
Full current ALI chipset/south bridges support.
Multiplexor support for all current Asus mainboards including SMP boards.
Auto system clock generator (PLL IC) detection. Thus more precise detection of AGP, PCI and memory speeds.
Support for new hardware monitor chips.
Fixed various issues with detection (chipset, system monitoring chips, etc.) See FAQ for details.
</A>
Madonion 3dmark
<A HREF="http://gamershq.madonion.com/3dmark2001/" target="_new">3dmark 2001</A>
Zdnet
<A HREF="http://www.zdnet.com/etestinglabs/stories/benchmarks/0,8829,2384408,00.html" target="_new">Zdnet Content Creation Winstone 2001</A>
Adobe
<A HREF="http://www.adobe.com" target="_new">Adobe Photoshop 6.0</A>

I don't know which or if all are optimised for P4 and/or Amd
but common sense is common sense, test the latest with the latest.



"Amd cpu...Gone in 2 secs flat, it truly is a fast chip!"

 

[yoda271828]

The current P4 is for development

Don't give us that crap! Intel is marketing the P4 to consumers. Don't tell me that the stupid <i>Blue man group</i> commercials appeal to developers. I'm sure software developers see the P4 commertials and think, 'I like the blue men, now I'll write software for the P4.'

The Williamette sucks, but the Northwood has great potential. I hope it is all that it is hyped to be.

 

[jlbigguy]

Benchmarks only show the potential of a computer. What good is all of that potential if the optimized software is still not here?

If I buy a P4 today, will my current software run faster or slower? Whether or not the benchmark programs are optimized, my EXISTING software will run slower. How many of us are willing to replace our software libraries?

I upgraded my last PC because my compile times were taking over 15 minutes. If I had to upgrade all of my compilers to take advantage of the faster system (another $750 for compilers), I would not have upgraded. The AMD system gave me the speed increase I needed WITH MY CURRENT software. The P4 would have at best been the same, or at worst, slower. That would not have been much of an upgrade for me.

By the time SSE2 software is in abundance, the P4 will have been scraped by Intel and replaced by the chip it should have been. Will all software vendors offer free upgrades to SSE2 optimized software? I doubt it.

 

[FUGGER]

Yoda, you like to put on your shoes before you pull up your pants?

Big secret, P4 is undergoing big changes based upon current P4(like beta steps to final) get product out and tested, make changes.

Maybe Intel should have hired tranmeta to do a software simulation? Its so much easier to develop SSE2 applications and recomile with a software simulator.

 

[Guest]

FUGGER
So, I guess you are conceding that Intel released a Beta product to the public that is not quite ready for prime-time? If so, I agree with you. The only problem is that they are spending millions of dollars marketing it as the fastest, most advanced processor available....and charging an aweful lot of money for it to boot. Don't they usually give beta product away to people who want to test it? I really don't want to pay that much for a processor just so I can be Intel's Guinnea pig.

 

[Guest]

In reply to FUGGER, firstly i am so sick of hearing you whine about Intel being better than AMD and Tom being Biased.

Other than that, i am gonna agree with one thing you think, Intel have been around longer, having more money and stuff, and therefore they should be better... But like i read someone say in a previous post, they have totally wasted their time and not spent enough mone/time on making a perfected chip with hardware to go with it. I don't know much about the P4 i admit, but i do know that i am NOT buying one for at least another year or so (if they're not recalled by then) and i am not an AMD enthusiast... mainly coz my first AMD Tbird 1.1 just crumbled... but never mind...

Another good thing about Intel, they do at least market in Australia (where i am). I have NEVER seen a TV ad for amd in australia... But the new Blueman ad is kickass... hahaha but that's completely off the subject..

Last point: you guys have got to start trying the approach of ignoring him and hoping he'll go away... Don't you ever remember your mothers telling you that when ppl talked to you in school? "if someone is annoying you, ignore them and they will go away" try it here, i would LOVE to stop seeing F*cking obscene posts from FUGGER everytime i checkout the forums.

And goodnight...

AMD Tbird 1.1Ghz & SuperORB
Asus A7V
128MB PC133 SDRAM
Winfast GeForce2 MX
Win98 SE

 

[FUGGER]

Tom is biased, and Intel is better.

It may take a year before the P4 matures. but realisticly 3 months and I will be buying a northwood myself.

My posts are not obscene, I rarely curse.

I love to poke my big pointy stick at AMD lemmings.

 

[Guest]

Fugger

So Intel released a beta processor to the market, advertising for it and are selling it so us the consumer can test it out? You would think they would test there processors before releasing them and seeing how they perform, its so poor right now you kind of wonder how smar they really are. I will tell you something, they have been second best for so long that they did anything to get a high clockspeed processor at any cost, and the cost is crap p4.

Geeze
Your Full of nothing FUGGER and your bad mood no one wants!

All reivews from Tom and others who say AMD is the better choice , you just cant accept that.

 

[Guest]

"The current P4 is for development"
Then why the hell are the selling it? It is wrong to sell it if it is in development. Intel is just using their blue men influence to cheat people into buying the P4 right now. Intel shouldn't be getting away with this.

 

[HolyGrenade]

You are a fuggin moron!!!

Why the fugg would intel release and sell a beta chip to consumers? (Unless they have their head stuck in their backsides very much like you)

You just keep posting crap here. I'm guessing you don't have a life outside of this community. You're probably not even aware of an outside world.

If you are so intel oriented, why dont you go chat in all the intel funded places like zdnet!!! Hell! even if you were a PR guy for intel you would've got fired for talking such crap!

Everyone has their own opinions are genuinly entitled to them. But, letting such crap out of your mouth in vain attempts to put down the opposition... That is just pathetic!

-------

Now, the pentium 4 is intels own undoing. They're so used to manipulating the market, they thought they'll just release a chip that would have plenty of new features but would be crap at current apps, and this will make every one write new apps for the p4.

But guess what, They have a powerful opposition this time - the Athlon. They didn't take that into account. Now, they're forced to make more p3's delaying development into the next p4's. They're also forced to repeatedly cut prices.

Now would everyone stop crying about intel p4 being designed to future apps! If AMD can make cpu's to turbocharge current apps, so should intel. 'Cos, when apps containing p4 optimizations are out, AMD will have CPU's out to perform on par if not better, as they always have.




"To make mistakes is just human.
To f*ck things up you definitely need a computer."

 

[Guest]

and I am sure they enjoy poking their own big sticks at you Intel Lemmings.....

When will you all learn to stop loving Corp's that will do nothing but rip you off (that goes for any of them not just AMD and Intel)

Opinions are like arseholes .... everybody’s got one....

 

[dannyaa]

Well gee Fugger thats a great point. I mean at least you can respond to all the points that people are making with such a deep comment: "Tom is biased, and Intel is better."
Wow. Now I see.

Actually, I don't really care. I have been with Intel always and bought an AMD recently because I wanted an excellent chip for cheap, whether Intel is better or not the AMD suits all my needs, is VERY fast, and best of all the price is right.

I think that maybe you should calm down, take a deep breath, look at your life, and realize the amount of time you are wasting arguing about a company that makes computer chips. I mean lets just say that Intel is better than AMD. Does it really matter? I mean, is the difference in speed or what not really that big of a deal? If my game ran at 87 FPS on an intel and 84 FPS on an AMD, and my word processor loaded 0.2 seconds faster on the Intel, would it really matter? I realize that this is a hardware forum and it exists for people who like to talk about these kind of things, HOWEVER, you get so bent out of shape over these things its ridiculous! I mean seriously, if you like Intel, buy intel. If you want to tell other people why, tell them. But be mature. To sit here and act like this is the most important thing in life and to insult other people is not only idiotic, rude, and immature, but also a WASTE OF TIME. When you are 80 years old and laying on your death bed how much is this going to matter? Do you have any value for LIFE and the things that are important in life? Instead of sitting in front of the computer and arguing about a STUPID COMPUTER CHIP why don't you get up, go outside, make some friends (try not to argue with them), spend time with family/relationships - worthwhile things - and GET A LIFE.

Now, I doubt you will do this, but thats OK because if you want to spend your life arguing about who makes better computer chips, thats fine with me (although with the amount of time you spend arguing here I would be surprised to find you have any time to actually enjoy using your sysemt).
In any case, if you are going to continue to participate in this forum, and you want ANY respect, why don't you try presenting your opinions/points in a responsible, mature manner and refrain from filling up forum space with posts that have absolutely no evidence to support your opinions, such as "Tom is biased, and Intel is better." Wow what an argument, just reading that gives me the picture of a six year old who has run out of things to say, but still has to have the last word so responds something like "no I'm right and your wrong". But hey, if thats how you want other people to see you, you're doing the right thing.

And I just need to say it once more - Get your priorites straight, for your own sake.

 

[FUGGER]

I love how you AMD lemming get all huffy, how many more times do we need a P4 vs Athlon review to figure out where the current/soon to be changed P4 stands? A few more times for you AMD Lemmings obviously.

Your so clueless to development its not even funny, your so stuck with AMD up your ass your forehead has a AMD logo.
Enjoy your disposable CPU.

Dannyaa, I make the same point who cares once you reach 100+ FPS in a game or your MS word opens .002 seconds faster. its all about the quality of the CPU, and knowing that its not gonna destroy itself. (ask grizley1 to show you his new keychain). really want me to list crap out again?

Lemmings hate it when I am corect, poiting out the obvious many times over. just eats them alive, getting all fustrated. =)

I am calm, not sure why lemmings think im upset or not calm for?? boggled! I notice alot of AMD lemmings chiming in with crap FUGGER, blah blah blah. but they say nothing important or relevant to the topic, other than lame attempt to discredit me. WTG Girls!