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PCI-Express question...

G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Hi folks!

I am thinking of building myself a computer using,

1- AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 (Socket 939 CPU)
2- Asus A8V Deluxe (Motherboard)
3- Kingston 1GB 400MHz DDR PC3200 ECC DIMM 3-3-3 (Ram)
4- Western Digital 74GB 10,000 RPM Enterprise Serial ATA (Hard Drive)
5- BenQ's DW-1600A (8.5GB Dual layer DVD burner) According to Tom's hardware
guide, it is one of the best for now.

As for video card, because of the new PCI-Express technology, I can't decide
if I should wait until the new PCI-Express video cards come out, or I should
just build the computer now simply using what is available, meaning

6- Nvidia 6800 Ultra Extreme or ATI RADEON X800. I haven't decided yet on
which one to use...

The question I have is that, on the Nvidia Nvidia 6800 GPU is PCI-Express
ready, meaning that it has built-in PCI-Express within 6800 series of GPUs.

I am having a bit hard time understanding how so... because how can it be
PCI-Express ready when the video card still has an AGP-8X connection? When
you say PCI-Express, I think of video card with PCI-Express connection.

The second issue is the motherboard. When the PCI-Express socket video cards
come out, Don't we have to buy a new motherboard that offers PCI-Express
slot so that it can take advantage of this new technology? I don't think
PCI-Express video card will work if you put it in a normal PCI slot on the
motherboard. The common sense tells me that the motherboard has to
accommodate the new PCI-Express video card technology in order to take
advantage of this new advanced feature.

Last but not least, AGP video card use 8X whereas PCI-Express is capable of
16X, but as I read on the web and understand, even though the current AGP
only offers 8X, no games comes close to using anywhere near 8X. So, 8X is
not the bottle neck. Meaning, that PCI-Express will not provide any
improvement in that perspective. Does PCI-Express have anything else to
offer other than 16X so that it makes it a revolutionary advancement over
AGP slot?

Part of me says that even though the PCI-Express video cards and
motherboards come out in a few months, Don't rush into any first generation
new technology because it is not used and tested enough by the consumers to
provide perfection without "constant problems". Since PCI-Express is a new
technology, if you rush into it and build your new computer on a system that
is not proven to be reliable, you might suffer some overall system
unreliability. It is better to give some time, maybe a year or two so that
the new technology becomes a standard and widespread overall among other
manufacturers.

I like to hear about your input so that I can make better judgment on the
issue as I am only guessing depending on what I read.

Thanks.

--
Ryan Atici
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

>The question I have is that, on the Nvidia Nvidia 6800 GPU is PCI-Express
>ready, meaning that it has built-in PCI-Express within 6800 series of GPUs.

Correction:

The question I have is that, on the Nvidia website, it says that Nvidia 6800
GPU is PCI-Express ready, meaning that it has built-in PCI-Express within
6800 series of GPUs.

Sorry for the typo...
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"Ryan Atici" <atici_ryan_OSMANLI@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:2qcc75Fu4vt5U1@uni-berlin.de...
> Hi folks!
>
> I am thinking of building myself a computer using,
>
> 1- AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 (Socket 939 CPU)
> 2- Asus A8V Deluxe (Motherboard)
> 3- Kingston 1GB 400MHz DDR PC3200 ECC DIMM 3-3-3 (Ram)

Use TWO 512meg sticks or TWO 1Gig sticks... Machine will run faster with a
pair.

> 4- Western Digital 74GB 10,000 RPM Enterprise Serial ATA (Hard Drive)

Two 34Gig WD Raptors in RAID 0 will be faster... Not sure if you'd really
notice, though.

> 5- BenQ's DW-1600A (8.5GB Dual layer DVD burner) According to Tom's
hardware
> guide, it is one of the best for now.
>
> As for video card, because of the new PCI-Express technology, I can't
decide
> if I should wait until the new PCI-Express video cards come out, or I
should
> just build the computer now simply using what is available, meaning

If you wait for the next greatest thing you'll just keep waiting. If you
want a computer now, get what is current and prepare to bleed if you buy
cutting edge (expensive, not well tested).

> 6- Nvidia 6800 Ultra Extreme or ATI RADEON X800. I haven't decided yet on
> which one to use...

NVidia if you like the sound of hairdryers... these pump out LOTS of heat.
NVidia also likes to cheat with there drivers/benchmarks.

BTW... Don't plan to upgrade in the future. Technology changes so much even
in just one year that it will be better just to replace the whole machine.

P.s. You didn't mention the BTX formfactor... Your case today won't work for
a new PC next year.
 

peter

Distinguished
Mar 29, 2004
3,226
0
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Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

PC mag did a PCI Express vs AGP video test last issue using both ATI and Nvidea
cards.
There was a neglible speed difference at this point in time....in lots of
instances AGP was still faster but only by a hair and when PCI Express was
quicker it was only by 2 hairs.
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,117070,00.asp
peter
"Noozer" <dontspam@me.here> wrote in message
news:Zj70d.355986$M95.190156@pd7tw1no...
>
> "Ryan Atici" <atici_ryan_OSMANLI@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:2qcc75Fu4vt5U1@uni-berlin.de...
>> Hi folks!
>>
>> I am thinking of building myself a computer using,
>>
>> 1- AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 (Socket 939 CPU)
>> 2- Asus A8V Deluxe (Motherboard)
>> 3- Kingston 1GB 400MHz DDR PC3200 ECC DIMM 3-3-3 (Ram)
>
> Use TWO 512meg sticks or TWO 1Gig sticks... Machine will run faster with a
> pair.
>
>> 4- Western Digital 74GB 10,000 RPM Enterprise Serial ATA (Hard Drive)
>
> Two 34Gig WD Raptors in RAID 0 will be faster... Not sure if you'd really
> notice, though.
>
>> 5- BenQ's DW-1600A (8.5GB Dual layer DVD burner) According to Tom's
> hardware
>> guide, it is one of the best for now.
>>
>> As for video card, because of the new PCI-Express technology, I can't
> decide
>> if I should wait until the new PCI-Express video cards come out, or I
> should
>> just build the computer now simply using what is available, meaning
>
> If you wait for the next greatest thing you'll just keep waiting. If you
> want a computer now, get what is current and prepare to bleed if you buy
> cutting edge (expensive, not well tested).
>
>> 6- Nvidia 6800 Ultra Extreme or ATI RADEON X800. I haven't decided yet on
>> which one to use...
>
> NVidia if you like the sound of hairdryers... these pump out LOTS of heat.
> NVidia also likes to cheat with there drivers/benchmarks.
>
> BTW... Don't plan to upgrade in the future. Technology changes so much even
> in just one year that it will be better just to replace the whole machine.
>
> P.s. You didn't mention the BTX formfactor... Your case today won't work for
> a new PC next year.
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Ryan Atici wrote:

> Hi folks!
>
> I am thinking of building myself a computer using,
>
> 1- AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 (Socket 939 CPU)
> 2- Asus A8V Deluxe (Motherboard)
> 3- Kingston 1GB 400MHz DDR PC3200 ECC DIMM 3-3-3 (Ram)
> 4- Western Digital 74GB 10,000 RPM Enterprise Serial ATA (Hard Drive)
> 5- BenQ's DW-1600A (8.5GB Dual layer DVD burner) According to Tom's
> hardware guide, it is one of the best for now.
>
> As for video card, because of the new PCI-Express technology, I can't
> decide if I should wait until the new PCI-Express video cards come out, or
> I should just build the computer now simply using what is available,
> meaning
>
> 6- Nvidia 6800 Ultra Extreme or ATI RADEON X800. I haven't decided yet on
> which one to use...
>
> The question I have is that, on the Nvidia Nvidia 6800 GPU is PCI-Express
> ready, meaning that it has built-in PCI-Express within 6800 series of
> GPUs.
>
> I am having a bit hard time understanding how so... because how can it be
> PCI-Express ready when the video card still has an AGP-8X connection? When
> you say PCI-Express, I think of video card with PCI-Express connection.

They mean that the chip can be put in a PCI Express board or an AGP board
without any special additional hardware.

Remember, nvidia makes chips, not boards.

> The second issue is the motherboard. When the PCI-Express socket video
> cards come out, Don't we have to buy a new motherboard that offers
> PCI-Express slot so that it can take advantage of this new technology?

Yes.

> I
> don't think PCI-Express video card will work if you put it in a normal PCI
> slot on the motherboard.

It won't fit in a normal PCI slot.

> The common sense tells me that the motherboard
> has to accommodate the new PCI-Express video card technology in order to
> take advantage of this new advanced feature.

Yes, it does.

> Last but not least, AGP video card use 8X whereas PCI-Express is capable
> of 16X, but as I read on the web and understand, even though the current
> AGP only offers 8X, no games comes close to using anywhere near 8X. So, 8X
> is not the bottle neck. Meaning, that PCI-Express will not provide any
> improvement in that perspective. Does PCI-Express have anything else to
> offer other than 16X so that it makes it a revolutionary advancement over
> AGP slot?

Don't try to compare the performance of AGP and PCI Express on the basis if
the "x" ratings--they have different baselines. That said, so far nothing
on the market can saturate an AGP 4x channel.

Far as I'm concerned PCI Express is a scam to force people to upgrade both
motherboard and video at the same time. The fanboys will tell you about
all sorts of theoretical advantages that it has but they don't seem to
occur in the real world.

> Part of me says that even though the PCI-Express video cards and
> motherboards come out in a few months,

Huh? Both have been on the shelf for several months. Just not for AMD. If
you want Athlon-64 and PCI Express it looks like you're going to have to
wait a few months.

> Don't rush into any first
> generation new technology because it is not used and tested enough by the
> consumers to provide perfection without "constant problems". Since
> PCI-Express is a new technology, if you rush into it and build your new
> computer on a system that is not proven to be reliable, you might suffer
> some overall system unreliability. It is better to give some time, maybe a
> year or two so that the new technology becomes a standard and widespread
> overall among other manufacturers.
>
> I like to hear about your input so that I can make better judgment on the
> issue as I am only guessing depending on what I read.
>
> Thanks.
>

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
 

Dave

Distinguished
Jun 25, 2003
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Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Just acquired :

Asus P5AD2 deluxe motherboard
P4 3GHz
1*1 GB Kingston RAM (I know I need 2 for full speed but want option of 4GB
and couldn't afford 2*1GB now)
Radeon X600 Pro (Asus)
2*Barracuda 7200.7 160GB SATA150
Plus other bits

Apart from an initial problem plugging in the legs of the CPU heatsink/fan
I'm very happy with it - the PCI-E X600 is performing as expected in the
various benchmarks.

X600 cost around £120 (about 1/3 the price of the unavailable X800's)
(£150 for the X600XT)

Far Cry runs great with everything on full except AA and in 800*600, which
I'm
quite happy with (in my opinion AA just blurs everything and I'm more
bothered
about the special FX than the screen res).

Of course if you find a PCI-E X800 then you should have 2 to 2.5 * the
performance
in the benchmarks (slightly less performance increase than price increase).

"Ryan Atici" <atici_ryan_OSMANLI@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:2qcc75Fu4vt5U1@uni-berlin.de...
> Hi folks!
>
> I am thinking of building myself a computer using,
>
> 1- AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 (Socket 939 CPU)
> 2- Asus A8V Deluxe (Motherboard)
> 3- Kingston 1GB 400MHz DDR PC3200 ECC DIMM 3-3-3 (Ram)
> 4- Western Digital 74GB 10,000 RPM Enterprise Serial ATA (Hard Drive)
> 5- BenQ's DW-1600A (8.5GB Dual layer DVD burner) According to Tom's
hardware
> guide, it is one of the best for now.
>
> As for video card, because of the new PCI-Express technology, I can't
decide
> if I should wait until the new PCI-Express video cards come out, or I
should
> just build the computer now simply using what is available, meaning
>
> 6- Nvidia 6800 Ultra Extreme or ATI RADEON X800. I haven't decided yet on
> which one to use...
>
> The question I have is that, on the Nvidia Nvidia 6800 GPU is PCI-Express
> ready, meaning that it has built-in PCI-Express within 6800 series of
GPUs.
>
> I am having a bit hard time understanding how so... because how can it be
> PCI-Express ready when the video card still has an AGP-8X connection? When
> you say PCI-Express, I think of video card with PCI-Express connection.
>
> The second issue is the motherboard. When the PCI-Express socket video
cards
> come out, Don't we have to buy a new motherboard that offers PCI-Express
> slot so that it can take advantage of this new technology? I don't think
> PCI-Express video card will work if you put it in a normal PCI slot on the
> motherboard. The common sense tells me that the motherboard has to
> accommodate the new PCI-Express video card technology in order to take
> advantage of this new advanced feature.
>
> Last but not least, AGP video card use 8X whereas PCI-Express is capable
of
> 16X, but as I read on the web and understand, even though the current AGP
> only offers 8X, no games comes close to using anywhere near 8X. So, 8X is
> not the bottle neck. Meaning, that PCI-Express will not provide any
> improvement in that perspective. Does PCI-Express have anything else to
> offer other than 16X so that it makes it a revolutionary advancement over
> AGP slot?
>
> Part of me says that even though the PCI-Express video cards and
> motherboards come out in a few months, Don't rush into any first
generation
> new technology because it is not used and tested enough by the consumers
to
> provide perfection without "constant problems". Since PCI-Express is a new
> technology, if you rush into it and build your new computer on a system
that
> is not proven to be reliable, you might suffer some overall system
> unreliability. It is better to give some time, maybe a year or two so that
> the new technology becomes a standard and widespread overall among other
> manufacturers.
>
> I like to hear about your input so that I can make better judgment on the
> issue as I am only guessing depending on what I read.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Ryan Atici
>
>
 

Glitch

Distinguished
Jul 26, 2004
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0
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dave wrote:
> Just acquired :
>
> Asus P5AD2 deluxe motherboard
> P4 3GHz
> 1*1 GB Kingston RAM (I know I need 2 for full speed but want option of 4GB
> and couldn't afford 2*1GB now)
> Radeon X600 Pro (Asus)
> 2*Barracuda 7200.7 160GB SATA150
> Plus other bits
>
> Apart from an initial problem plugging in the legs of the CPU heatsink/fan
> I'm very happy with it - the PCI-E X600 is performing as expected in the
> various benchmarks.
>
> X600 cost around £120 (about 1/3 the price of the unavailable X800's)
> (£150 for the X600XT)

Great comp you got there but I don't know why you paired a 3 GHz CPU
with a mid-range video card.In my opinion you should have taken a X800
PRO 'cause they're available in almost every shop,or you should have at
least taken a X600 XT.
 

Dave

Distinguished
Jun 25, 2003
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0
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0
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"Glitch" <glitch_120@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:chrtbp$42m$1@bagan.srce.hr...

> Great comp you got there but I don't know why you paired a 3 GHz CPU
> with a mid-range video card.In my opinion you should have taken a X800
> PRO 'cause they're available in almost every shop,or you should have at
> least taken a X600 XT.

PCI-E X800's are currently out-of-stock everywhere, plus
I couldn't afford one right now :)
Hence I plumped for what seemed the cheapest option with
resonable performance.
When I have more money and/or the X800's become available
that's the first upgrade I will make (then the RAM).
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Precisely what I did Dave, had an X600 Pro until the X800XT arrived - and
wow what a difference a card makes!

Andi.

P4 560 (3.60Ghz), Abit AA8 Duramax, 1GIG PC5300 (2*512), twin Hitachi 250GB
SATA RAID 1 disk set, Radeon X800XT, BenQ FP937s 12ms TFT, Win XP Pro.

--

Remove only one zero to reply


"dave" <dave@parystec.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:chrvia$q0e$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...
> "Glitch" <glitch_120@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:chrtbp$42m$1@bagan.srce.hr...
>
> > Great comp you got there but I don't know why you paired a 3 GHz CPU
> > with a mid-range video card.In my opinion you should have taken a X800
> > PRO 'cause they're available in almost every shop,or you should have at
> > least taken a X600 XT.
>
> PCI-E X800's are currently out-of-stock everywhere, plus
> I couldn't afford one right now :)
> Hence I plumped for what seemed the cheapest option with
> resonable performance.
> When I have more money and/or the X800's become available
> that's the first upgrade I will make (then the RAM).
>
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

I like to continue this thread with another question if I may...

I assume that, if not all, many of you have Serial ATA hard drives in your
computers.

I like to raise this question, rather a concern for me. I like to put 3
"Western Digital 74GB 10,000 RPM Enterprise Serial ATA" hard drives in my
new system that I want to build. I am planning to install 3 different
operating systems on each hard drive.
1- First serial ATA drive will have Windows XP Professional
2- Second serial ATA; Windows 98 Second Edition
3- Third serial ATA; Linux operating system.

In old motherboards with IDE hard drive connection, the CMOS of the
motherboard gives you an option to choose boot sequence so that you can boot
up from any one of the hard drives of your choice, which is what I have in
my old computer.

I've never had any personal experience with new motherboards with built-in
Serial ATA connection, but the information that I am getting is that the
CMOS in ASUS motherboards doesn't offer you any option to choose boot
sequence for serial ATA hard drives. Does that apply to all ASUS
motherboards? Or ASUS corrected that problem in their current motherboards?
If not, how about other motherboard like ABIT, Gigabyte, MSI, Tyan? Do any
of those motherboards offer boot-up sequence option for Serial ATA hard
drives? I mean, why not offer an option to choose boot sequence in CMOS in
new motherboards for Serial ATA hard drives? If none of the new motherboards
with built-in Serial ATA hard drive connection offer boot-up sequence in
CMOS, how do you boot up the hard drive of your choice if you have more than
one hard drive with difference operating systems?

Thanks...

--
Ryan Atici
 

peter

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There might be MOBO out there that still offer you the choice.....but there
definitly is software out there that lets you do that.
do a Google for "multi boot"
http://www.freeos.com/articles/3482/
http://www.osloader.com/
peter
"Ryan Atici" <atici_ryan_OSMANLI@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:2qeqskFuven7U1@uni-berlin.de...
>I like to continue this thread with another question if I may...
>
> I assume that, if not all, many of you have Serial ATA hard drives in your
> computers.
>
> I like to raise this question, rather a concern for me. I like to put 3
> "Western Digital 74GB 10,000 RPM Enterprise Serial ATA" hard drives in my
> new system that I want to build. I am planning to install 3 different
> operating systems on each hard drive.
> 1- First serial ATA drive will have Windows XP Professional
> 2- Second serial ATA; Windows 98 Second Edition
> 3- Third serial ATA; Linux operating system.
>
> In old motherboards with IDE hard drive connection, the CMOS of the
> motherboard gives you an option to choose boot sequence so that you can boot
> up from any one of the hard drives of your choice, which is what I have in
> my old computer.
>
> I've never had any personal experience with new motherboards with built-in
> Serial ATA connection, but the information that I am getting is that the
> CMOS in ASUS motherboards doesn't offer you any option to choose boot
> sequence for serial ATA hard drives. Does that apply to all ASUS
> motherboards? Or ASUS corrected that problem in their current motherboards?
> If not, how about other motherboard like ABIT, Gigabyte, MSI, Tyan? Do any
> of those motherboards offer boot-up sequence option for Serial ATA hard
> drives? I mean, why not offer an option to choose boot sequence in CMOS in
> new motherboards for Serial ATA hard drives? If none of the new motherboards
> with built-in Serial ATA hard drive connection offer boot-up sequence in
> CMOS, how do you boot up the hard drive of your choice if you have more than
> one hard drive with difference operating systems?
>
> Thanks...
>
> --
> Ryan Atici
>
>
 

Len

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Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

My ASUS P4P800 Dlx basic detects and allows me to boot any drive on my
system. It even has an F8 boot menu which allow for change of the boot
device more or less on the fly without having to enter CMOS at all.

My system has XP Pro SP2, W2K SP4 and Mandrake Linux 10. I can choose to
boot any of the drives (all on seperate physical drives) including my 80GB
Seagate SATA. Not sure if this would include ALL ASUS MBs but others I have
spoken to (even with AMD solutions) definitly have the F8 boot option and
I'm sure the ability to boot from SATA. My MB even has a setting in CMOS
that allows you to activate the RAID BIOS for SATA RAID setups so that they
will also be bootable.

FWIW,
Len

"Ryan Atici" <atici_ryan_OSMANLI@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:2qeqskFuven7U1@uni-berlin.de...
>I like to continue this thread with another question if I may...
>
> I assume that, if not all, many of you have Serial ATA hard drives in your
> computers.
>
> I like to raise this question, rather a concern for me. I like to put 3
> "Western Digital 74GB 10,000 RPM Enterprise Serial ATA" hard drives in my
> new system that I want to build. I am planning to install 3 different
> operating systems on each hard drive.
> 1- First serial ATA drive will have Windows XP Professional
> 2- Second serial ATA; Windows 98 Second Edition
> 3- Third serial ATA; Linux operating system.
>
> In old motherboards with IDE hard drive connection, the CMOS of the
> motherboard gives you an option to choose boot sequence so that you can
> boot
> up from any one of the hard drives of your choice, which is what I have in
> my old computer.
>
> I've never had any personal experience with new motherboards with built-in
> Serial ATA connection, but the information that I am getting is that the
> CMOS in ASUS motherboards doesn't offer you any option to choose boot
> sequence for serial ATA hard drives. Does that apply to all ASUS
> motherboards? Or ASUS corrected that problem in their current
> motherboards?
> If not, how about other motherboard like ABIT, Gigabyte, MSI, Tyan? Do any
> of those motherboards offer boot-up sequence option for Serial ATA hard
> drives? I mean, why not offer an option to choose boot sequence in CMOS in
> new motherboards for Serial ATA hard drives? If none of the new
> motherboards
> with built-in Serial ATA hard drive connection offer boot-up sequence in
> CMOS, how do you boot up the hard drive of your choice if you have more
> than
> one hard drive with difference operating systems?
>
> Thanks...
>
> --
> Ryan Atici
>
>
 

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