The EE doesnt even beat the 4800!
Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0
Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0
Rugger
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Thanks for the links reply! Now we can get down to business...
Since you won't pay top dollar for a CPU - neither would I - let's take out the top dollar CPUs from the benchmarks you linked - the 840EE and the X2 4800+. I think we both agree that the performance isn't worth the price that you pay for those chips. All the prices I list will be from Newegg for continuity/simplicity. The Intel 840D, Model# BX80551PG3200FN, costs $542.99 and the AMD X2 4200+ Model# ADA4200BVBOX is $555. I would say that those are pretty comparable prices. As you stated in your previous posts, when you are comparing chips, you should compare in the same price range.
Scenario #1: 4200+ is 16.9% faster than the 840D.
Scenario #2: 840D is 19.7% faster than the 4200+. This particular benchmark is odd in that the 840D beats out the 840EE and the 4800+...
Scenario #3: The 4200+ is 10% faster than the 840D.
Scenario #4: The 4200+ is 47.7% faster than the 840D.
Scenario #5: 4200+ is faster than the 840D....
We'll leave single cores out of the picture. They aren't what you're going to purchase and are not made for the multi-tasking performance you want/need.
Apples to Apples, the AMD 4200+ beat the performance of the 840D in a all of the scenarios except Scenario #2.
AMD's closest competitior to the 820D is the 3800+ at ~$354. It is really competing with the 830D in price range. You can read the results of the 830D/3800+ comparison as easily as I can at Anandtech. The 3800+ won 30/31 benchmarks. Here's what Anandtech said:
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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
Since you won't pay top dollar for a CPU - neither would I - let's take out the top dollar CPUs from the benchmarks you linked - the 840EE and the X2 4800+. I think we both agree that the performance isn't worth the price that you pay for those chips. All the prices I list will be from Newegg for continuity/simplicity. The Intel 840D, Model# BX80551PG3200FN, costs $542.99 and the AMD X2 4200+ Model# ADA4200BVBOX is $555. I would say that those are pretty comparable prices. As you stated in your previous posts, when you are comparing chips, you should compare in the same price range.
Scenario #1: 4200+ is 16.9% faster than the 840D.
Scenario #2: 840D is 19.7% faster than the 4200+. This particular benchmark is odd in that the 840D beats out the 840EE and the 4800+...
Scenario #3: The 4200+ is 10% faster than the 840D.
Scenario #4: The 4200+ is 47.7% faster than the 840D.
Scenario #5: 4200+ is faster than the 840D....
We'll leave single cores out of the picture. They aren't what you're going to purchase and are not made for the multi-tasking performance you want/need.
Apples to Apples, the AMD 4200+ beat the performance of the 840D in a all of the scenarios except Scenario #2.
AMD's closest competitior to the 820D is the 3800+ at ~$354. It is really competing with the 830D in price range. You can read the results of the 830D/3800+ comparison as easily as I can at Anandtech. The 3800+ won 30/31 benchmarks. Here's what Anandtech said:
The Intel 820D is $245.99. AMD does not have a chip in this price range: the 820D is ~$100 less than the 3800+. It would be interesting to see % performance increase you get for that $100. Both chips should OC extremely well for a decent OCer. Power consumption on the 820D - even with the newer/cooler Prescott cores - will be higher than comparable AMD CPUs. It would logically follow that the 3800+ would get a higher OC on stock cooling than the 820D. I don't know this for fact so we'll assume that they will get comparable OCs on stock cooling. Soooo, the only real differences between the systems from a price perspective would be: RAM, mobo and processor. (A decent OCer would get a really good PSU with either Intel or AMD.) What would be your choices for RAM and mobo on the Intel 820D system? For the AMD 3800+ system?
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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
- Jan 22, 2001
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Really all I was doing is pitting Intel's best against AMD best in multitasking. I think most here saw AMD sail away with single tasks but yet when multiple tasks where tested Intel came right up. That is a trend that I found interesting. What does those tests relate to a 820D, NOT MUCH.
Anycase at Xtremesystems.com the concern I had with the X2 and 2 1gb modules has been laid to rest. The X2 (with the right modules, particulary the Crucial Balistic breed) will OC like a mother with T1 timings
. Looks like 250mhz is a decent number there.
<A HREF="http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67762" target="_new">http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67762</A>
How well the X2 will do with all banks populated I've havn't seen yet, it would use T2 but in the end with the memory controller on the cpu the latency I think would still be less then what you see with Intel. Not sure of multitasking performance drop due to T2. Intel's advantage would be higher bandwidth of DDR2 which is maybe reason why Intel with multitasking situations does well, catches up and at times surpasses AMD.
The X2 3800+ is just not interesting to me for the price, maybe I just want a change or something, the 820D is just alot of bang for the buck to ignore and it has OCing potential written all over it and besides, it is cheaper :lol: .
Anycase at Xtremesystems.com the concern I had with the X2 and 2 1gb modules has been laid to rest. The X2 (with the right modules, particulary the Crucial Balistic breed) will OC like a mother with T1 timings
. Looks like 250mhz is a decent number there.<A HREF="http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67762" target="_new">http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67762</A>
How well the X2 will do with all banks populated I've havn't seen yet, it would use T2 but in the end with the memory controller on the cpu the latency I think would still be less then what you see with Intel. Not sure of multitasking performance drop due to T2. Intel's advantage would be higher bandwidth of DDR2 which is maybe reason why Intel with multitasking situations does well, catches up and at times surpasses AMD.
The X2 3800+ is just not interesting to me for the price, maybe I just want a change or something, the 820D is just alot of bang for the buck to ignore and it has OCing potential written all over it and besides, it is cheaper :lol: .
- Jan 22, 2001
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Now why is everyone testing dualcore cpu's with only 1gb, that is totally lame. If you going to buy a dualcore it would be used for multitasking scenarios (not the terrible testing AnAndTech did) but real life situations. One would be like rendering 3dsMax in the background and gaming or working in photoshop. Memory and processor intensive tasks.
<b>MAYBE TOM'S HARDWARE CAN TEST A DUAL CORE CONFIGURATION THAT WOULD MORE LIKELY BE USED BY A SIMI TO PROFESSIONAL PERSON! A.K.A 2GB+, HOW ABOUT 4GB?????</b>
<b>MAYBE TOM'S HARDWARE CAN TEST A DUAL CORE CONFIGURATION THAT WOULD MORE LIKELY BE USED BY A SIMI TO PROFESSIONAL PERSON! A.K.A 2GB+, HOW ABOUT 4GB?????</b>
No you weren't. You're pitting Intel's Cheapest knee-jerk panic dual core up against a mid-range AMD one.
So, to get you to realise something requires only a few tens of posts and a review. If we can calculate the exact number of times we need to repeat the same information, then we'll avoid all the mudslinging in future perhaps.
---
<font color=red>"Life is <i>not</i> like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapeńos - what you do today might burn your a<b></b>ss tommorrow."
>Now why is everyone testing dualcore cpu's with only 1gb,
>that is totally lame.
As long as the benchmarks arent being RAM bound, there is no problem, the numbers will still be as representative plus or minus the 0.7%. Besides, if you are gong to use that much RAM, youd most likely want windows x64, and I assure you the 0.7% will be completely irrelevant compared to how K8 better handles 64 bit binaries than prescott. Not to mention its irrelevance in the light of the performance difference between the X2 and PD in general.
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
>that is totally lame.
As long as the benchmarks arent being RAM bound, there is no problem, the numbers will still be as representative plus or minus the 0.7%. Besides, if you are gong to use that much RAM, youd most likely want windows x64, and I assure you the 0.7% will be completely irrelevant compared to how K8 better handles 64 bit binaries than prescott. Not to mention its irrelevance in the light of the performance difference between the X2 and PD in general.
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
Rugger
Splendid
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If you want to try something new, then go for it. But that's completely different from what you were saying earlier. Everything was "price/performance" and "I haven't made up my mind - I'm still researching." As a money- weilding consumer you have the right to purchase whatever product you want with your money.
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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
Would like to see whether or not Intel would run at 1T or 2T. If it run at 2T, then I would expect that it would take a harder performance hit than the AMD at 2T.
The X2 is not bandwidth starved and doesn't NEED the higher bandwidth that the Intel processors NEED to not get bottlenecked. It's one of the reasons that AMD is still using DDR. They see the need in the future, so that is why they are going to the M2 socket.
You have every right to change. You have every right to buy the performance at the lowest price point for all the dual-core processors. You have the right to ignore the OC potential of your preferred choice's competitor. Just don't expect that people won't call you out to task when you try to dress up your preferences as a price/performance search.
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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
rettihSlluB
Distinguished
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Hey Noko, you're making an @sshole of yourself. If you're smart enough, just give up and stop posting BS in this forum.
If you still believe that Intel's dual core offerings are better, then just buy the d@mn thing and STFU. 😉
My Beloved Rig:
ATHLON 64 FX 55
2X1024 CORSAIR XMX XPERT MODULES
MSI K8N DIAMOND (SLI)
2 MSI 6800 ULTRA (SLI MODE)
OCZ POWERSTREAM 600W PSU
If you still believe that Intel's dual core offerings are better, then just buy the d@mn thing and STFU. 😉
My Beloved Rig:
ATHLON 64 FX 55
2X1024 CORSAIR XMX XPERT MODULES
MSI K8N DIAMOND (SLI)
2 MSI 6800 ULTRA (SLI MODE)
OCZ POWERSTREAM 600W PSU
Ok... you haven't made up your mind, yet you keep coming up with reasons to buy the 820D. Just buy the damn thing, and quit wasting our time. It's clear you're not going to listen to reason and any argument contrary to 820D is automatically dismissed.
The only person you seemed to listen to was Fugger... which makes me wonder if you're one in the same.
<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
The only person you seemed to listen to was Fugger... which makes me wonder if you're one in the same.
<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
Rugger
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FWIW, I'd still like to hear what you have to say on mobo/RAM for the 820D and the 3800+ systems. Just to get a feel for what the price difference for you would be...
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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
hmm, let me do it for him. ill asume he wants two 1gb dimms, just double the price for 4. for the amd processor, i used monarch cause newegg doesnt have 3800 yet, they have similar prices.
intel system: 820d $245.99
asus 945 mobo: $130
2gb pqi ddr2 ram: $285 cheapest for lowest latency, 3.
power supply: fsp 500w $91
grand total: $751.99
amd system: 3800 $399
asus nforce 4 mobo: $114
2gb ocz ddr ram: 270 cheapest for lowest latency, 2.
power supply: fsp 400w 70.
grand total: $853
so, the 3800 outperforms the 830 by a considerable percentage, its only bigger for the 820d, so makes up for the price difference and then some.
intel system: 820d $245.99
asus 945 mobo: $130
2gb pqi ddr2 ram: $285 cheapest for lowest latency, 3.
power supply: fsp 500w $91
grand total: $751.99
amd system: 3800 $399
asus nforce 4 mobo: $114
2gb ocz ddr ram: 270 cheapest for lowest latency, 2.
power supply: fsp 400w 70.
grand total: $853
so, the 3800 outperforms the 830 by a considerable percentage, its only bigger for the 820d, so makes up for the price difference and then some.
Rugger
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I said assuming the PSUs were the same caliber/quality. Both should have the Blue Storm 500W for $91.
945 supports dual core? I'm not an intel expert to say the least... Anyway, I've heard the Asus P5WD2 is the best Intel mobo for stability, OC and speed right now, so that is the board I would get for an intel rig and that is $212.
Four memory slots, nF4 for s939, great OCer. I would personally go with the DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra-D for $132. If you wanted the SLI option and thought the SLI boards got the better chips, then you could go for the DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 SLI for $169.
You would be hard pressed to find anyone that would seriously argue that those are the best OC boards for their respective CPUs. So...at best, that is $80 less for the A64 mobo. At worst, you save $43 on the A64 mobo.
Assuming that the RAM is about the same price, then the price delta is about $59-$78 more for the 3800+ system. About 7-10% more for the 3800+ system than for the 820D. If everything I am reading abut the 3800+ is true, then you definitely get more than a 7-10% performance gain.
Edit: That $59-78 delta also figures the PSUs are the same Blue Storm 500W.
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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
945 supports dual core? I'm not an intel expert to say the least... Anyway, I've heard the Asus P5WD2 is the best Intel mobo for stability, OC and speed right now, so that is the board I would get for an intel rig and that is $212.
Four memory slots, nF4 for s939, great OCer. I would personally go with the DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra-D for $132. If you wanted the SLI option and thought the SLI boards got the better chips, then you could go for the DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 SLI for $169.
You would be hard pressed to find anyone that would seriously argue that those are the best OC boards for their respective CPUs. So...at best, that is $80 less for the A64 mobo. At worst, you save $43 on the A64 mobo.
Assuming that the RAM is about the same price, then the price delta is about $59-$78 more for the 3800+ system. About 7-10% more for the 3800+ system than for the 820D. If everything I am reading abut the 3800+ is true, then you definitely get more than a 7-10% performance gain.
Edit: That $59-78 delta also figures the PSUs are the same Blue Storm 500W.
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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
- Jan 22, 2001
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LOL all of you. Just had to come back and post more of the same I see. Not too many post after I showed Intel multitasking not only catches up but surpasses AMD stumbling technology . As soon as I found something positive about the X2 (no one else had any facts just opinions about X2 memory) it is now the best thing since slice bread. Don't give me a break, then you whin like a cat in heat that I am wasting your time, LOL, if it was that bad then you wouldn't return and read this stuff now would you? If you don't want to read my stuff then shut up, keep your paws out of my thread and just ignore the thread, otherwise all you are doing is showing your own stupidity, which for many of you, you are proud of it! You just know it is the real truth and it is just grating on your nerves that your knowledge level lacks any real substance, yet believing no one else notices. Some of you I wonder how you even know how to plug a memory module in, little alone think you know enough about power supplies to tell me which one to get.
There, now stick to the facts boys and girls . Besides you think I would only pay $200 for ram, are you high!!! Patiot buddies, $350, two sticks. Power supply, don't need, my 550 modified Antec will do just fine, case, have one waiting and begging for the 820D to settle in. MOBO, Abit AI8 or AW8, probably AI8. Will wait a little while to see how some of these items are panning out. As for the X2, AMD needs to go back to the drawing board .
RUGGER, you always seem to be in the middle when I rant, this post is not directed towards you so don't take it personally. In fact all of you don't take it personally, just get smarter when you post.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 08/03/05 01:04 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
. As soon as I found something positive about the X2 (no one else had any facts just opinions about X2 memory) it is now the best thing since slice bread. Don't give me a break, then you whin like a cat in heat that I am wasting your time, LOL, if it was that bad then you wouldn't return and read this stuff now would you? If you don't want to read my stuff then shut up, keep your paws out of my thread and just ignore the thread, otherwise all you are doing is showing your own stupidity, which for many of you, you are proud of it! You just know it is the real truth and it is just grating on your nerves that your knowledge level lacks any real substance, yet believing no one else notices. Some of you I wonder how you even know how to plug a memory module in, little alone think you know enough about power supplies to tell me which one to get.There, now stick to the facts boys and girls
. Besides you think I would only pay $200 for ram, are you high!!! Patiot buddies, $350, two sticks. Power supply, don't need, my 550 modified Antec will do just fine, case, have one waiting and begging for the 820D to settle in. MOBO, Abit AI8 or AW8, probably AI8. Will wait a little while to see how some of these items are panning out. As for the X2, AMD needs to go back to the drawing board .RUGGER, you always seem to be in the middle when I rant, this post is not directed towards you so don't take it personally. In fact all of you don't take it personally, just get smarter when you post.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 08/03/05 01:04 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
Hey fuggerino, do I get this right ? You would be spending $350 on 2 gigs of RAM, ( or maybe even $700 since you really needed at the very least 2 gigs, 4 was better) while that gives you no more than a what, 2% or so better performance over value ram that costs half as much ? So you dont mind paying $350 for 2% performance ?
Then you add $219 motherboard that cant even do SLI, or an unavailable board with nForce4 that is known to have stability or even boot issues with the Pentium D ? So you dont even mind stability or another $100 bucks extra for.. well.. nothing really ? $450 more for as good as nothing...
...and at the same time you keep whining about a measily sub $100 price premium for the X2 that gives you anywhere between 5 and 30% better performance over the 820 (which would be like 15-40+% running x64) ?
That just makes a lot of sense to me you know. About as much as pairing two 7800GTXs in SLI with a 2 GHz Celeron . Maybe you could also consider buying a few raptors and attaching them through an external USB1 enclosure ?
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
Then you add $219 motherboard that cant even do SLI, or an unavailable board with nForce4 that is known to have stability or even boot issues with the Pentium D ? So you dont even mind stability or another $100 bucks extra for.. well.. nothing really ? $450 more for as good as nothing...
...and at the same time you keep whining about a measily sub $100 price premium for the X2 that gives you anywhere between 5 and 30% better performance over the 820 (which would be like 15-40+% running x64) ?
That just makes a lot of sense to me you know. About as much as pairing two 7800GTXs in SLI with a 2 GHz Celeron . Maybe you could also consider buying a few raptors and attaching them through an external USB1 enclosure ?
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
rettihSlluB
Distinguished
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Noko, you are worthless. As I said before the more you post the more you'll be raped by everyone here. Give it up and I'll promise you that you won't be raped anymore. 
Anyhow, here's a little review that will show you how bad Intel's pseudothreading technology (I call it Hyperthreadshit) affects performance:
http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/p4_840/
As you can see, the X2 4800+ is f*cking the 840EE in the @ss in almost all benchmarks (except ABBYY fine reader which I believe is heavily intel optimized).
The 840 EE is not better than AMD's dual core offerings in multitasking and that is fact. Anandtech can backup what im saying:
==================================================================================
While AMD scales slightly worse than Intel (comparing the AMD Dual Core to the Intel Dual Core rows) in the MMCC Winstone test and significantly worse in the Multitasking 1 test, AMD scales better in the last two tests. Particularly in the third multitasking test, AMD gets a whopping 68.4% from the move to dual core while Intel only improves by 39.1%.
==================================================================================
Here's the link http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2484&p=4
If you keep on reading, you'll notice that no Intel processor can touch the X2 in audio and video encoding and that is a fact!
My Beloved Rig:
ATHLON 64 FX 55
2X1024 CORSAIR XMX XPERT MODULES
MSI K8N DIAMOND (SLI)
2 MSI 6800 ULTRA (SLI MODE)
OCZ POWERSTREAM 600W PSU
Anyhow, here's a little review that will show you how bad Intel's pseudothreading technology (I call it Hyperthreadshit) affects performance:
http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/p4_840/
As you can see, the X2 4800+ is f*cking the 840EE in the @ss in almost all benchmarks (except ABBYY fine reader which I believe is heavily intel optimized).
The 840 EE is not better than AMD's dual core offerings in multitasking and that is fact. Anandtech can backup what im saying:
==================================================================================
While AMD scales slightly worse than Intel (comparing the AMD Dual Core to the Intel Dual Core rows) in the MMCC Winstone test and significantly worse in the Multitasking 1 test, AMD scales better in the last two tests. Particularly in the third multitasking test, AMD gets a whopping 68.4% from the move to dual core while Intel only improves by 39.1%.
==================================================================================
Here's the link http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2484&p=4
If you keep on reading, you'll notice that no Intel processor can touch the X2 in audio and video encoding and that is a fact!
My Beloved Rig:
ATHLON 64 FX 55
2X1024 CORSAIR XMX XPERT MODULES
MSI K8N DIAMOND (SLI)
2 MSI 6800 ULTRA (SLI MODE)
OCZ POWERSTREAM 600W PSU
Noko's reply, im not talking about 1000$ chips here, Im talking about the 820D as it CLEARLY is the best choice because it saves me 100$, yet as P4man mentionned id gladly blwo these saving on ram!
Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0
Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0
"As for the X2, AMD needs to go back to the drawing board ."
Yeah, I really have to agree there, AMD really panicked shipped a dual-core, unlike Intel, who had it planned for years.
"case, have one waiting and begging for the 820D to settle in"
begging for mercy, you mean, it doesn't want to melt 😛
"RUGGER, you always seem to be in the middle when I rant, this post is not directed towards you so don't take it personally. In fact all of you don't take it personally, just get smarter when you post."
Well, maybe, if you define "smarter" as better at spreading FUD and FFF, then you are undoubtly smarter than Rugger.
It's really not easy to decide which one is the biggest intel troll of 2005; noko, FUGGER or Porkster. They all speccialize in differet fields; noko in memory capacity, FUGGER in memory latency, and then you have Porkster who is obsessed about opcodes.
Maybe we should hold a sort of contest, with a nice poll? It would be a damn good thing to have in your rear bumper or sig, "Intel troll of 2005"
Yeah, I really have to agree there, AMD really panicked shipped a dual-core, unlike Intel, who had it planned for years.
"case, have one waiting and begging for the 820D to settle in"
begging for mercy, you mean, it doesn't want to melt 😛
"RUGGER, you always seem to be in the middle when I rant, this post is not directed towards you so don't take it personally. In fact all of you don't take it personally, just get smarter when you post."
Well, maybe, if you define "smarter" as better at spreading FUD and FFF, then you are undoubtly smarter than Rugger.
It's really not easy to decide which one is the biggest intel troll of 2005; noko, FUGGER or Porkster. They all speccialize in differet fields; noko in memory capacity, FUGGER in memory latency, and then you have Porkster who is obsessed about opcodes.
Maybe we should hold a sort of contest, with a nice poll? It would be a damn good thing to have in your rear bumper or sig, "Intel troll of 2005"
First of all I don't think it is fair for all of us to compare noko to FUGGER. FUGGER actually knows something about hardware... noko... well we can all see what he knows.
If you scroll back far enough in this enormous thread you will find a spot where I actually supported Intel (although still stated that noko is a retard) in that the 820D had no rival at its price range. But the small price difference between the X2 3800 and the 820D have made me reconsider. I think it is bluntly obvious to anyone (other than noko) that the 3800 out performs the 820D. Not even FUGGER would contest this... he will always give credit where it is due, and this one is just too obvious.
The real debate should be whether that $100 price difference is well spent on the performance difference. For me, this would seem to be an obvoious decision as it gives real performance, not this psuedo-performance that so many of us pay for in way of overkill PSU's, over priced RAM and unnecesary cooling solutions. But that is just me. If noko isn't willing to pay the extra money for a better rig then all the power to him.
P.S. Noko you are a d!ck... don't talk down to people that know way more about hardware then you. I pay respect to those who know more than me, and value there opinions, as should you.
<b><font color=red>Go date P4man or something, bye!</font color=red><b>
If you scroll back far enough in this enormous thread you will find a spot where I actually supported Intel (although still stated that noko is a retard) in that the 820D had no rival at its price range. But the small price difference between the X2 3800 and the 820D have made me reconsider. I think it is bluntly obvious to anyone (other than noko) that the 3800 out performs the 820D. Not even FUGGER would contest this... he will always give credit where it is due, and this one is just too obvious.
The real debate should be whether that $100 price difference is well spent on the performance difference. For me, this would seem to be an obvoious decision as it gives real performance, not this psuedo-performance that so many of us pay for in way of overkill PSU's, over priced RAM and unnecesary cooling solutions. But that is just me. If noko isn't willing to pay the extra money for a better rig then all the power to him.
P.S. Noko you are a d!ck... don't talk down to people that know way more about hardware then you. I pay respect to those who know more than me, and value there opinions, as should you.
<b><font color=red>Go date P4man or something, bye!</font color=red><b>
Rugger
Splendid
- Jan 11, 2005
- 6,707
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Until the 3800+ came along I was in agreement - there was no real competition for the 820D. That has changed with the 3800+ on the street. If you're going to get a good mobo - AMD or Intel, then the 3800+ system is less than $100 more than an 820D system. Less than a 10% system cost increase for <b>no less than</b> a 10% performance increase.
AMD saw the gap and filled it pretty well.
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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
AMD saw the gap and filled it pretty well.
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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
- Jan 22, 2001
- 2,413
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I really don't know where you guys are getting mobo or ram prices. The Abit AI8 goes for $145 not $200! The only ram that I would buy for a X2 would be the Crucial Ballistic (tracer maybe), cheapest is $180 per 1gb stick, tracer version is over $200 a stick. Reason being it is the only ram that can take the X2 above 225mhz with two sticks of 1gb ram. Now Fugger did mention the bh5 of DDR2 which I think comes from Micron which goes for much cheaper then the Patriot stuff which goes for about $180 per 1gb stick. Now if I bought DDR1 memory, the next upgrade afterwards would make the ram probably worthless except in the machine it was residing in, if the AMD mobo burns up two years down the pike, I would be stuck with DDR ram. I guess I could sell it on Ebay or something. Now buying DDR2 it will migrate if I want to (in other words that would be an option). So buying something on the expensive side can save down the road because in this case the longevity of DDR2 usefulness is much longer then DDR. Besides the bandwidth of the Patriot blows away anything that any DDR can deliver, something very useful with two cores.
Yes, I buy a cheapo 820D, which for multitasking and multithreaded applications blows away AMD's best single core chips that costs much more. A year from now I buy another Intel chip that blows away the 820D for an upgrade. GEE WIZ, that was hard to figure out. AMD lemmings buys $1000 X2, next year the M2, oops it uses DDR2, oops new socket, no upgrade for the AMD lemming. New mobo, ram and chip required. Now who in the hell is going to save more money????? As for the X2 3800+ with 512kb per chip cache, yeah I can see its multitasking and multithreaded performance sink and yet costs $100+ more.
For me I can see winning with Intel and losing going with AMD. Thats now it is boys and girls and have a very pleasant day :lol: .
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 08/04/05 05:34 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Yes, I buy a cheapo 820D, which for multitasking and multithreaded applications blows away AMD's best single core chips that costs much more. A year from now I buy another Intel chip that blows away the 820D for an upgrade. GEE WIZ, that was hard to figure out. AMD lemmings buys $1000 X2, next year the M2, oops it uses DDR2, oops new socket, no upgrade for the AMD lemming. New mobo, ram and chip required. Now who in the hell is going to save more money????? As for the X2 3800+ with 512kb per chip cache, yeah I can see its multitasking and multithreaded performance sink and yet costs $100+ more.
For me I can see winning with Intel and losing going with AMD. Thats now it is boys and girls and have a very pleasant day :lol: .
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 08/04/05 05:34 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
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