Pentium 820 D

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wouldnt be too quick to jump to conclusions. sisoft doesnt use x87 code afaik, which is where K8 reigns supreme, instead it uses either integer or SSE. There are quite a few workloads, especially SSE code, that even with proper optimization will fun faster on a high clocked P4 than on a K8. Now how representative mandlbrot creation is for anything else than well.. creating madelbrots is another issue all together.
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This topic has been talked in the amdzone forums and this is a good explanation about the whole situation involving vectorized code (call it SSE):

The issue of SSE code gets very confusing when trying to benchmark the performance because most of the time you will have to compare two different benches.

Intel very thoughtfully included a check in its compiler that prevents it from creating SSE code on AMD processors (see the link in my previous post). So, the benchmark for Intel will be created using the Intel compiler and will include SSE. In contrast, the benchmark for AMD will either be created without SSE support or will be created with a different compiler. This greatly reduces the validity of the benchmark.

In tests that I have seen where Intel and AMD were compiled on Linux systems with the same compiler the Intel processor was a bit slower. In tests that I have seen where the Intel compiler was hacked to fool it into generating SSE code for AMD the Intel processor was still a bit slower. It has been claimed more than once that Intel Compiler SSE code runs faster on AMD than on Intel.

It has been shown again and again that Intel maintains an advantage in graphics and mp3 coding benchmarks only when good code is generated for Intel and poor code is generated for AMD. Whenever the AMD code was improved it has always beaten the Intel code.

As far as I can tell when the benches are not artificially skewed by comparing SSE for Intel with non-SSE for AMD or by artificially tuning the code for a larger cache, Intel will win only about 10% of the benches.
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If I'm not wrong, anandtech, arstechnica and aceshardware posted a review that back up the above quote about Opteron/Athlon 64 performance in floating point calculations using legacy x87 code AND vectorized code.

The funniest thing of all, is that Athlons benefit more from the Intel compiler than intel's own offerings. 😉



My Beloved Rig:

ATHLON 64 FX 55
2X1024 CORSAIR XMX XPERT MODULES
MSI K8N DIAMOND (SLI)
2 MSI 6800 ULTRA (SLI MODE)
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http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20050405/pentium_d-02.html
Intel will keep using socket LGA 775 with minor modifications. The 2005 platform design allows for a thermal design power of 130 rather than 115 Watts. This has basically been done for the Pentium D 840 and the Extreme Edition 840, since the 830 and 820 versions operate at a maximum of 95 W. FSB1066 will not be supported for the time being, leaving some margin for product changes and overclocking space for the enthusiast.

http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2484
The original Athlon 64 X2 (Toledo core) processors all had the same exact specifications:
- 233.2M transistors
- 199 mm2 die size
- 110W max power

Difference in power consumption between 820D and Athlon X2 3800+
 
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/200508011/index.html
According to this article the Athlon X2 3800+ and 840D are real close in performance. Unfortunetly it does not compare the 820D as well. In my opinion the biggest reason to go with the X2 is for a very mature SLI platform. I think that most people will never use that 2nd PCIe x16 slot. I may have missed this but no one has noted that the 820D does NOT have hyperthreading at all, but does include EMT64 support. Value wise, DDR and DDR2 cost about the same. The 1GB Ballistix Tracer memory sticks are rumored to be no longer available ever again. Also according to this article

http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2476

it seems that AMD will be phasing out DDR on their platform as well.
 
As for the 2nd X16 slot, it might come Handy for that SLI AA, where each fram is render on two card than merged to remove the AA, the data has to go thru the PCIe bus and their *might* be a bottle neck at 8x, not confirmed yet...
As far as HT is concerned only the 840EE has HT, what makes it a EE is basically ht...

No doubt they will be phasing it out on the high end, but s754 if not 939 will stay with us for a little while thats for sure

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0
 
I am currently building a computer for a friend where price is a huge issue. Like most of us he wants the best bang for the buck. He is going to be using this computer mainly as a typewriter, internet browser, multimedia hub, and games in that order of relevance. A dual core processor fits his goals more than a single core, but the extra $150 for an X2 does not fit his price range. I am building this computer as cheap as I can with the best realistic upgrade options possible. Everything is a compromise, and for some people having a bigger screen, faster graphics card, or even a real office chair is more important than a 7% difference in performance.

Begin RANT
I used to lurk in this forum when the T-bird was the greatest processor ever and the Pentium 3's were factory overclocked and at the end of their life cycle. It is always fun to be competitive and be on the winning team, that is why we spent all that money on a computer to play a multiplayer game online, to be competitive, and its nice to win.

But, this is a technology forum and people come here for many reasons. For most of the people here for a month and are never to be seen again its for help from people who are more knowledgable in something than themself, whether its building a new computer or troubleshooting an existing one. I remember why i stopped lurking at this forum a couple of YEARS ago, when 90% of the people at this forum are of no help and in some cases do more harm than good. But, its nice to see that people like crashman are still around to really help people out. Its hard to imagine that 1 of the most (if not the most) trafficed websites on computer technology has a forum this bad when it comes to helping people out. This will probably be my last post here, goodbye.
End RANT
 
Goobye, dont let the door slam your butt on the way out!
pppsssttt, bring nokko with you!

Edit: Anands forum are teh 1337 sh1t!

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by labbbby on 08/12/05 09:55 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
However bad the forum may be, the 'advice' given by the main THG site(in the form of reviews and columns) is generally shitloads worse.

Not including the 'other' forum, I'd say 90% of the posts around here are helpful. Certainly all mine are :wink:

If you think it's so bad, why not stick around and help people yourself, rather than whining about it.

bye.

---
<font color=red>"Life is <i>not</i> like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapeńos - what you do today might burn your a<b></b>ss tommorrow."
 
Can some one bring me up-to-date on this thread please? Cliffnotes would be great!

_____________________
<A HREF="http://snipurl.com/fxwr" target="_new">Welcome to the House of Horrors, welcome to the House of a 1000 Corpses</A>
 
He is going to be using this computer mainly as a typewriter, internet browser, multimedia hub, and games in that order of relevance.
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On second thoughts, if you think that little lot requires a Dual-core system then I don't think you <i>should</i> hang around and try to help.

An A64 3000+ would be fine for his needs. Since budget's so tight, that $100 (ish) saving would go into more RAM, better Gfx card, or bigger/better HDD. he's more likely to notice a difference with one of those three than he is with a Dual Core.

---
<font color=red>"Life is <i>not</i> like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapeńos - what you do today might burn your a<b></b>ss tommorrow."
 
I've not really been following it much, but it's about 80% noko spewing BS, although he does appear to have pulled his head <i>out</i> of his arse for his last couple of posts.

There's a fair bit of P4Man laughing at him (and wholly failing to persuade him that he's being stupid), and more than once pointing out that no-one went nuts for dual-cpu systems, but suddenly everyone thinks their universe will collapse if they don't have Dual Core chips... (and to illustrate this point, see Never_Again's post above..)

Basically you could probably read the first and last pages, and that would give you a decent idea of the thread as a whole :wink:

---
<font color=red>"Life is <i>not</i> like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapeńos - what you do today might burn your a<b></b>ss tommorrow."
 
That is a 100% percent accurate resumé! Just forgot too had that FUGGER came and posted 2 post that nokko took as pure gold, yet failed to listen to all the other until recently!

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0
 
Actually calling people names because they don't agree with your opinions is rather amusing for me. The 820D is a good buy, the chipset support for it is rather good and should work well for many folks. Telling other people what to buy without even having a clue in what they do is also amusing or lame at best. Labby have you even contributed anything to this thread besides crap?

Yes I was very happy to see Crashman still here after all of these years and a few others that stuck it out. There are actually a number of people here that are rather helpful but a few bad apples do tend to drag everyone down or at least try to.

As for P4Man laughing at me, I think we where laughing at each other and not taking things to personally, he said a number of things that where good and some things I would disaggree on, no big deal. It may have seen like a war at times but for me it was amusing, especially the 64bit rant and article link which stated something very much different from the rant. Live and learn.

As for the 820D, it is a green light for me, maybe I am just board with AMD, maybe I see Intel's .65micron stuff as a very realistic upgrade path, maybe I want to check out DDR2 or have memory that can be used when DDR is dead (that is if it is ever). Memory at 4gb and possibly 8gb is also becoming a big concern on my part and Intel seems to support that better on PC desktops. Right now AMD just doesn't have everything I want, doesn't mean they don't have what you want, need or what ever. I never pushed either brand down anyone's throats. I rather you investigate the pros and cons and then make the best decision possible on your own. Some here should actually read my very first post of the thread which turnes out to be rather true. The 820D is a rather awesome offering, if you do 3d work with a multithreaded renderer (I do) it will blow the doors off of any AMD or Intel single core processor that cost twice as much. It is a Overclockers dream, well close to it (no multiplier control) in having very high overclocks from a number of people who bought them. In my case for what I am doing the X2 has no significant advantage, that doesn't mean the X2 isn't faster in a number of things, just for me it is just not significant for what I do.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 08/14/05 00:24 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
LOL, I pulled my head out of my arse and that is why I am buying a 820D chip :wink: . Now what BS did I say???? This will be very amusing if you could come up with anything even remotely true :lol: Bring it on, prove your manhood or girlhood. Maybe you might show some intelligence besides spitting out of your mouth.
 
Truth- We all know that you are not quite stupid enough to buy that chip.
Reality- 3 years ago, you could have built a comperable system using 2 2800s on a dual socket board.
Happiness- it's what trolls like you, bring to a place like this.
 
Noko, I sugest you read <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=218250#218250" target="_new">this</A>.

As you see, the X2 is better at heavy multitasking when you go with DDR-480 (it gives more bandwidth to each core). This even widens the gap between the X2 and the P4-840EE (remember that the 840EE it's <b>suposed</b> to handle 4 threads) <b>😀</b>

Anyhow, since you've made your decision it's worthless keeping posting on this thread.

Bye! :)

My Beloved Rig:

ATHLON 64 FX 55
2X1024 CORSAIR XMX XPERT MODULES
MSI K8N DIAMOND (SLI)
2 MSI 6800 ULTRA (SLI MODE)
OCZ POWERSTREAM 600W PSU
 
Thanks for the link, this also occurs for the Pentium D setups as well with the higher bandwidth DDR2. Something not well tested yet, multitasking would naturally benefit from more bandwidth. TomsHardware did a half hazard analysis with DDR2:

<A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20050718/index.html" target="_new">http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20050718/index.html</A>

But didn't use multitasking tests like AnAndTech on their second article. The problem I would have with the X2 line is getting 2gb to go 240mhz, DDR480, and beyond, it is possible though. Moving to 4gb with the X2 I just don't know and I believe would be limited to DDR400 (penalty for reduce bandwidth with multitasking as well) and T2 timings with another penalty. Just not to much data out there on the X2 with faster memory and at 2gb-4gb. Using multipliers in this case would defeat the bandwidth from memory to the cpu on multitasking type tests, in other words the memory would bottleneck at the cpu level so bus speed at 1:1 would seem to be the fastest setup for multitasking with dual core. Single core the Athlon 64's have sufficient bandwidth already so using mulitipliers doesn't significantly hurt performance. How much is anyone's guess. This is one of the reasons why I am going with Intel's 820D this round.

Now TomsHardware mention they are going to do a 820D to like a 3800+ comparison, I just hope they do one with 2gb of memory and some real multitasking scenarios with memory speed variations to really find the limitations for both. DDR 2 is approaching DDR1000 with DDR800 available! Even better if TomsHardware did tests with 4gb as well but must readers here I don't think would consider that configuration but at least 2gb would be reasonble.

Besides what is the big deal about me getting a 820D and you posting in this thread? That was a good link and good tests again done by AnAndTech. I just feel the 820D will give me more bang per buck in the long run, hey I maybe wrong but not posting because someone is not going to buy an AMD system is short changing yourself or someone else reading here. Now this thread has probably become vary boring so I am surprise people are still posting. Besides a few idiots calling me a troll all the time without any useful facts, links or anything else to discuss with logic as good as a banana.

When and if I ever get my 820D :wink: , I will do as much testing and fact finding that I can. Lay it down the line good or bad, tempertures, overclocks, difference in what ram speed has with multiasking, multithreading, multiplier hits, you name it and I will probably test it out. In other words I will be an explorer once again until I get it all fine tuned. It took me about 4 months with the Abit NF7 and XP2500+ to get everything as fast and stable as possible. Anyways see ya around in the other threads here.
 
Nope, only crap for a crappy thread...

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0
 
Who uses 4 and 8Gb of RAM. I hope that when Toms does a 3800 vs 820D review (which we can all be assured will be absolute crap, and Intel biased) they use 2Gb of RAM at the very most. I think most people only have 1Gb of RAM I know very few who feel that 2Gb is a necessity for most users. You will have to find a pretty niche specific review that will satisfy all of your benchmark needs.

<b><font color=red>Go date P4man or something, bye!</font color=red><b>
 
It's Intel that has memory problems with it's dual core CPU's.

btw. how well Intel MB's can handle over 4GB of RAM ?
Does it drop to 100hz and to 2T ? :lol:

<font color=red>"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
- Albert Einstein</font color=red>
 
Well show me the light then on what you mention :wink: . It would be funny if Intel is the one with the major troubles with over 2gb. Well I can always shift gears, no sweat on my part. As for 2gb, yes it is very usable for certain type of tasks and most people probably don't really need it. Now some folks need 8gb and more to get on what they do.
 
Well show me the light then on what you mention . It would be funny if Intel is the one with the major troubles with over 2gb.
Click to expand...
What [-peep-] light ?
Intel dual core CPU's HAVE PROBLEMS with RAM.
No it's not just higher latency, it's the fact that INTEL WILL NOT BOOT WITH MOST RAM !.

But Intel will use lazy timing and lower clockspeed with large amount of RAM.
Because signal path is longer, they MUST USE LAZY TIMINGS AND LOWER CLOCKS !


<font color=red>"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
- Albert Einstein</font color=red><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by HansGruber on 08/16/05 12:44 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
Use the internet.

ps. several reviews were delayed because Intel DC is so picky with memory.

<font color=red>"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
- Albert Einstein</font color=red>
 
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