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Someone Somewhere
Titan
- Sep 23, 2012
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A Raspberry Pi cannot be built by just anybody - you need at the least someone to make a PCB (too complex for home-brew), and a reflow oven or very very good soldering skills.
PSUs need very specific transformers that are likely custom-built, or you'll be at <70% efficiency.
Plus, you're playing around with mains. Big legal issues and it's hazardous as hell.
Stick with extra low voltage for DIY, please.
- Oct 31, 2015
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I was thinking along these lines the other day. With all the expertise Tom's has on hand, there's no reason that the community couldn't spec out a power supply (or other PC components) and approach an OEM for manufacture. Tomshardware branded components would sell like hotcakes.
- Jul 15, 2014
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I've thought of similar things but not with PSUs. The Youtube channel "CinemaSins" just critiques movies and points out "movie sins". I think that guy should direct a movie.
Dark Lord of Tech
Retired Moderator
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Onus
Titan
- Jan 27, 2006
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RealHardX has no ratings though, although I'd say some level of 80+ means it's not tier-5 (assuming it's not fake); 80+ Gold is probably at least tier-3, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's an exception, like Coolermaster or Chokemax that might still only be 4.
Darkbreeze
Retired Mod
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Yes, there are PLENTY of units out there, Raidmax, Cooler Master, Thermaltake, Rosewill, Cougar, Coolmax, Enermax, Lepa, NZXT, Topower, Startech, Xion and many others who have units with various levels from Bronze to Gold that I wouldn't put above a tier 3 and many of them are much lower quality than that. A good many of them, despite 80plus ratings, are really worthless and probably tier 5 or just plain "crappy" if you want to go that route and don't like tiers, like some people.
So there are easily a bucket full of units out there with 80plus Bronze or higher ratings that in my opinion are not worthy of even being a tier 4 or "decent" rated unit. The Thermaltake TR2 and Cougar A series are good examples.
So there are easily a bucket full of units out there with 80plus Bronze or higher ratings that in my opinion are not worthy of even being a tier 4 or "decent" rated unit. The Thermaltake TR2 and Cougar A series are good examples.
Someone Somewhere
Titan
- Sep 23, 2012
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This TR2 got a fairly decent review; I'd call it at least tier 3, maybe tier 2: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/thermaltake-tr2-700-w-power-supply-review/11/
It's an awfully large product range. The ones that are awful are mostly the ones without 80+.
It's an awfully large product range. The ones that are awful are mostly the ones without 80+.
- Dec 26, 2012
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The issue I have with a 2 tier approach is its very simplicity. There's no room for mediocrity. You'll take most of those 'ok' psus and label them the same as 'excellent' psus, and the rest of the mediocre and label them junk. This just makes for a butt load of reading, trying to chase down reviews etc just to differentiate between a corsair CX and a SuperFlower leadex.
It's not hard to understand SR-71 liking the 2 tiers, he's already extremely well versed in the psu arena, so it's really not much more than a reference tool when he can't be bothered thinking (no disrespect intended) but for ppl with less education, they'll see the CX as 'good' so think it's great for the price. Having 5 tiers at least gives some definition to great-good-ok-bad-fugly.
It's not hard to understand SR-71 liking the 2 tiers, he's already extremely well versed in the psu arena, so it's really not much more than a reference tool when he can't be bothered thinking (no disrespect intended) but for ppl with less education, they'll see the CX as 'good' so think it's great for the price. Having 5 tiers at least gives some definition to great-good-ok-bad-fugly.
- Jul 15, 2014
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It still depends on the end user's needs, PSUs cannot just be generalized into tiers and assume that they are all good or mediocre or bad. Depends on the buyer's needs.
Dark Lord of Tech
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Onus
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This works, as does Inkiad's virtually identical three; basically taking the Go/Nogo idea that JohnnyLucky uses and adding budget/availability considerations. After all, why would anyone buy Coolermaster if Seasonic is available? Who chooses Raidmax if they can get Antec? If a goal is to simplify the selection process, there's no need to include so many superfluous choices, or superfluous tiers.
Onus
Titan
- Jan 27, 2006
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On the five-tier lists, given that Tier-5 units are [potentially] system-destroying PSU-shaped objects, a PSU that does have an honest 80+ [Any] label on it might still be low-quality and deserve tier-4, having been tested at 100% (although too cool), it is probably not going to kill your system merely because it was connected to A/C power. In the absence of all other information, I still maintain that 80+ is at least minimal assurance of some minimum but safe level of performance.
Onus
Titan
- Jan 27, 2006
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Ok, I'm assuming (it's not hard to check, unlike claimed wattage) that the 80+ part of the label is honest. Then you can apply some de-rating for the difference between 23C and ~40C to get an idea of minimum actual wattage. One hundred percent of the claimed wattage was tested, for half an hour, and the unit not only did not croak, but it maintained efficiency so it wasn't on the ragged edge.
JohnnyLucky
Glorious
- May 30, 2007
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The two lists I have are not "tiers". It is just one list of recommended power supplies and one list of psu's to avoid. Both are based on competent technical reviews. Links are provided to the technical reviews. That's all. It is up to the consumer to do research and make an informed purchasing decision.
I specifically mentioned at the top of the psu recommendation list:
"NOTA BENE - Many well known brands and models are not listed because they were not reviewed by competent hardware review sites. Other brands and models are not listed due to average or below average performance during stringent testing. Still others are not listed because they failed to pass rigorous testing. To see which power supplies to avoid please check the PSU Lemon List."
I specifically mentioned this at the top of the psu lemon list:
"NOTA BENE - Only brands and models that were reviewed and tested by competent hardware review sites are listed. There may be additional brands and models that would qualify for the psu lemon list but they are not listed because they were not reviewed or subjected to rigorous testing."
Years ago when I inherited the recommended list from Proximon there were 7 review sites that published competent technical reviews. The number has been reduced and the number of new power supplies being released has also been reduced. That is understandable since sales of desktop pc's have been declining for years. Currently more small. portable, mobile pc's are being sold than desktop pc's.
My original thinking was to keep things fairly simply by eliminating "tiers". The problem with tiers is that there is no international standard that can be applied. When the discussion comes up in forums it usually boils down to personal opinions.
I specifically mentioned at the top of the psu recommendation list:
"NOTA BENE - Many well known brands and models are not listed because they were not reviewed by competent hardware review sites. Other brands and models are not listed due to average or below average performance during stringent testing. Still others are not listed because they failed to pass rigorous testing. To see which power supplies to avoid please check the PSU Lemon List."
I specifically mentioned this at the top of the psu lemon list:
"NOTA BENE - Only brands and models that were reviewed and tested by competent hardware review sites are listed. There may be additional brands and models that would qualify for the psu lemon list but they are not listed because they were not reviewed or subjected to rigorous testing."
Years ago when I inherited the recommended list from Proximon there were 7 review sites that published competent technical reviews. The number has been reduced and the number of new power supplies being released has also been reduced. That is understandable since sales of desktop pc's have been declining for years. Currently more small. portable, mobile pc's are being sold than desktop pc's.
My original thinking was to keep things fairly simply by eliminating "tiers". The problem with tiers is that there is no international standard that can be applied. When the discussion comes up in forums it usually boils down to personal opinions.
Darkbreeze
Retired Mod
- Jun 24, 2014
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I don't get the problem with tiers, although I do understand that many of you don't like them. To me, a tier by any other name......
I see it like it's basically being said that:
Tier 1: There is no doubt these are great units.
Tier 2: We think, based on the reviews and available data, that these are pretty damn good units.
Tier 3: These units are ok and probably won't blow up or catch on fire. They might not last as long as some others and there are situations where they're probably not the best choice.
Tier 4: You could use one if you had to, but honestly it's a crapshoot and you're taking your chances that you won't soon be replacing it with something else.
Tier 5: If this has to be explained after knowing the criteria for tier 4, you probably won't believe or understand how bad they are anyhow. If you buy one, after being told they are dangerously bad units, you deserve what happens to your system when it fails.
Really, the tiers are just an expanded version of good/bad that makes allowances for more criteria. Great, good, ok, bad, really really bad. I don't see the issue. Since we largely recommend only tiers 1 and 2, it's very unlikely anybody that buys one of those units is ever going to regret it. For the most part, buying a unit from tiers 3, 4 or 5 are accurately going to be either a waste of money that could have netted you a much better unit for the same price or an outright hardware failure situation, so it seems to me that overall culling the separation of units by tiers, groupings, intended uses or any other categorical methodology boils down quite simply to semantics.
Good vs bad is still fundamentally a two tier list, regardless whether you call them tiers or not.
I see it like it's basically being said that:
Tier 1: There is no doubt these are great units.
Tier 2: We think, based on the reviews and available data, that these are pretty damn good units.
Tier 3: These units are ok and probably won't blow up or catch on fire. They might not last as long as some others and there are situations where they're probably not the best choice.
Tier 4: You could use one if you had to, but honestly it's a crapshoot and you're taking your chances that you won't soon be replacing it with something else.
Tier 5: If this has to be explained after knowing the criteria for tier 4, you probably won't believe or understand how bad they are anyhow. If you buy one, after being told they are dangerously bad units, you deserve what happens to your system when it fails.
Really, the tiers are just an expanded version of good/bad that makes allowances for more criteria. Great, good, ok, bad, really really bad. I don't see the issue. Since we largely recommend only tiers 1 and 2, it's very unlikely anybody that buys one of those units is ever going to regret it. For the most part, buying a unit from tiers 3, 4 or 5 are accurately going to be either a waste of money that could have netted you a much better unit for the same price or an outright hardware failure situation, so it seems to me that overall culling the separation of units by tiers, groupings, intended uses or any other categorical methodology boils down quite simply to semantics.
Good vs bad is still fundamentally a two tier list, regardless whether you call them tiers or not.
Someone Somewhere
Titan
- Sep 23, 2012
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I think you still need a third list in the middle. Think mediocre FSPs or similar. Say you've already got one - does it need to be replaced ASAP? No. But if someone wanted to buy a new PSU, would you recommend it? Also no.
Darkbreeze
Retired Mod
- Jun 24, 2014
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