PSU tier list 2.0

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Okay okay, everyone has a right to make a tier list. I know Blackbird wants it deleted but it just can't happen. So it's not like we can eliminate tier lists. I just want people to understand that a Tier 1 unit, for instance, is necessarily "better" than a Tier 2 unit, as it depends on the person's exact needs. But I think we can all agree that this list in particular is severely outdated as is, and needs major updating. Not that I like tier lists, but if they are going to be there, they should at least have modern day units on them, and I think the owner of the tier list should be more in touch with us, as he never comes on, and it is difficult discussing this list when it is practically abandoned.
 
Yeeah but what about those units that are right non the borderline of tier 1 or 2? If you make it tier 1 people think it's better than it is, if you make it tier 2 people think it's worse than it is. SO if you add more tiers, then you have the problem of being too specific and ignoring a particular user's needs. It's like it can never win!
 


OK then...make it 12 or 20 [strike]levels[/strike] tiers, updated daily.
You want to do that?

Either make it usable, or kill it off.
 


Killing it off is beyond my power :) I'm just mere onlooker who says a few things of my own opinion input.
 
@turkey_scratch,
Of course the tier list is a source of information. It's the collective 'opinions' of all those technical reviews you prize so highly wrapped up into 1 small opinion on whether a psu is great, good, mediocre, ehh or junk. Not everyone wants to sift through the thousands of reviews on thousands of different psus trying to figure out just wtf transient response means to them. Most ppl don't care about all that. They just want somebody to give them a list of options on what's good and what to avoid and what's beneath the quality of their build..

And FYI, if your buddy BOB is trying to buy a psu to circumvent any possible damages from the number of brown outs his area suffers from, he is a complete and utter moron. His time would be much better invested in researching a decent UPS.

@ The rest of you dissenters...
DT has gone to a lot of effort to compile this list, researching, reading, getting opinions from others who know psus etc etc and while it may not be of use to some, it is to others and does a respectable job of separating the good from the bad. Is it perfect? No. Does it make everybody happy? Maybe not. Can you all live with it? Probably so.

Personally it really ticks me off that ppl would be that base to post on the authors own post that his work is crap and should be deleted. If you hate the idea that much, stop following the post and go start your own
 

This assumes that the person that answers is competent.

I think saying Tier 3 and below units are a waste of money is sort of not justifiable. The majority of the Tier 1 and Tier 2 units on this list are a waste of money, because only a select few units out of them in general are greater value. Most of them are just overpriced honestly. Telling people to just "Buy a tier 1 or tier 2 unit" will often end up with them losing a lot of money if they just pick a random one.
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This is why you tell them to buy the cheapest T1/T2 unit. Prices change and people look at old threads, and not every poster finds every deal available today.

Obviously it is quite safe to say that something like a Corsair RMx is better than a Logisys piece of crap. I don't care what the situation is, nobody will be in a situation where a Logisys is better than the RMx. But once there are more tiers, things get complicated. Let's say Bob is a gamer who plays competitively and values a very quiet power supply. His GPU is an R9 390, so power requirements can be a bit steep and so can power spikes for that matter. In addition, Bob has very frequent brownouts since he lives in India. Bob is looking at the tier list.

He sees a tier 1 unit. Wow, all Japanese caps, fantastic ripple performance, solid voltage regulation, good crossload performance. He doesn't know all that though. However, what Bob doesn't know, is that that tier 1 unit drops the PWR_OK signal at an unsafe voltage, it has poor 12V transient response performance, and it is also a very noisy PSU. On the other hand, there is a tier 2 unit that Bob thinks must be worse. It doesn't have as nice ripple or as sharp voltage regulation, but it is extremely quiet even under high loads, transient response performance excels, and it drops the PWR_OK signal at a safe voltage in terms of a brownout.
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That is an unusual scenario and Bob may be better off asking for advise from one of the more read folks. Bob is in the 1% - most users wouldn't give a third of that detail.

Also, the unit in T1 should not be in T1. IMHO there's more chance of even a well-read poster misremembering a review or forgetting a specific unit than the tier list being wrong like that - yes, it does have loads of flaws like that, but it's easier to fix them than all the posters on the site.
 
OK. I'm pissed off now. If you don't want the list, ignore it and don't use it. This is IMHO well past the level of those who have been banned (or very close to) for inciting arguments or acting like a stuck record. If a non-mod just started repeatedly posting 'BUY AMD' in bold large caps, what do you think would happen?

If you don't want to contribute, don't contribute. Or I'll start replying to every thread about a new PC or PSU that you should PM so-and-so for advice on a PSU for yet another single GPU build, because if they listen to the tier list or anyone that reads from it, they'll buy a lemon. I mean, that's what you want, isn't it?
 


Most of them just asks "I need a power supply. What i should buy?"
 
I believe the tier list has value; in context. The forum and its members should be able to assist with the context, for example to help identify those outlier conditions. Would it be useful to put something to this effect as a disclaimer?
"This list is a good basic guide; a lot of effort has gone into it, and you will not go wrong by following it. On its own, however, it may not provide the best possible answer to your search for a PSU, nor will it help you get the most for your money."
 
^^That may just be a very good idea. The only thing that disappoints me is everyone says it's peer-reviewed and has community input but surely not since I've been on this site. Any input seems to go unnoticed since dotorrent never comes on. It's already severely outdated and missing a lot of units.
 
While the list would no doubt benefit from an update, dottorent has clearly considered the suggestions of knowledgeable members when he has updated it. A bunch of techies like us, who are sometimes almost rabidly opinionated, will never reach a consensus on details, even as broad as +/- a whole tier; dottorent has done an excellent job of being an arbiter of our mixed opinions, such that a person using it is unlikely to make a bad choice, even if it wasn't the best choice. Best choice requires a little more effort invested into the results than merely checking a list, no matter how good the list is.
 
Which brings up my next thought: how are the S12ii and M12ii Tier 2? The description of Tier 2 says compatible with Haswell sleep states, but they are group regulated. I know they are well regulated group regulated designs, but I don't think they would be compatible with the sleep states still.

The Corsair RM 850W CWT is tiered but was never reviewed.

The Corsair RMx units are all missing from the list besides the 1000W one.

If Dotorrent is reading this, then for sure I'll be posting more recommendations and thoughts.
 
The Antec VP is listed as made by Delta, but it is not specific enough. Some of those are made by FSP also. The Corsair SF units need added. FSP Hydro X need added. Enermax Revolution X'T II need added. There are some Silverstone Strider Gold S models missing, some of which have been reviewed like the 1500W one here. The Antec High Current Gamer is also group regulated and is in tier 2. It's not compatible with the sleep states.

Coolmax is in Tier 5 but I strongly disagree with brand generalization, as units like the Coolmax CUQ-1350B are of high quality and this can be severely misleading to somebody who thinks their PSU is crap when it is not. I think putting the group regulated EVGA 430W and 500W in the same tier as the Rosewill Photon is poor. The Photon's major downside is a sleeve bearing fan but it makes up for all of it with good build quality and performance and having VRM regulators for the minor rails.
 
The VP450 is a Delta-built unit; the VP350 is FSP. HardwareSecrets reviewed both of those.
Doesn't the list account for exceptions, e.g. Chokemax? It seems to me that Jonnyguru found one of them to actually be good, but on the whole, they've got a lot of junk units. In this case, even if they do have one very good one, in general, why risk Coolmax when there is {Seasonic | Antec | Corsair RM | EVGA X2 | etc} out there?
I've not seen the Photon reviewed yet, nor the ARC.
 
The 750w Photon had an abysmal review. I'd never recommend one.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story6&reid=405


The Arc series are ATNG, which, while not currently having been reviewed (Oklahoma Wolf says he has one in the review pile, but it's never found it's way to the testing phase. That was back in 2014 so I wouldn't expect to see it get done if it hasn't by now.) is not a great indicator. I know most OEM's have good and bad units, but ATNG has a lot more bad than good.



 
I have to agree, much as I understand Dottorent's inability to maintain a more frequent participation on this project, that TH needs to take a more proactive interest in either making an arrangement with DT regarding the list since it has grown to be more than just a pet project, or create/adapt one of their own that can be more actively managed. The problem as usual, same as from Dottorent, is time. The time investment would be significant and most people simply cannot budget that amount of time to devote to a project like this. I do wish DT was able to be a little more frequent with updates and participate in discussions regarding changes a little more often, but I also understand that this is just a slice of his life, not his primary life project.
 
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