PSU tier list 2.0

[jankerson]

The group regulated units are normally the lower end models so all we can really do is make sure we don't recommend them to people that have newer machines.

 

[Darkbreeze]

That's not even remotely true. Not in the larger picture of things. It might be the lower end models among the ones WE commonly recommend, but it's the vast majority among all the models and platforms that exist from all the OEMs and re-branded units out there. And I would not exactly call the M12II and S12II models, or the other units based on that platform like the High current gamers, low end. Old designs maybe, but not actually low end.

They work perfectly fine in systems that don't require individually regulated rails, AND, there are a lot of them still out there. For example, any Ryzen system would work just fine with one of them in it.

 

[Karadjgne]

Well it only really applies to Haswells or newer Intel cpu's. In indo-asian markets, lga1155 is still quite popular, and thats a hefty dose of sales. You don't find the same low power limitations in the amd cpus either, another decent chunk of sales now with Ryzen. So worldwide sales of group regulated designs is going to be prevalent until they become more expensive to manufacture than dc-dc designs. Corsair (bless their hearts) is trying to make that happen as they do have worldwide marketing, but there's also a good chunk of cheapo-Chinese brands that aren't going to change designs in a hurry. It's going to be a good while yet before group regulated designs are done with.

 

[jankerson]

That's not even remotely true. Not in the larger picture of things. It might be the lower end models among the ones WE commonly recommend, but it's the vast majority among all the models and platforms that exist from all the OEMs and re-branded units out there. And I would not exactly call the M12II and S12II models, or the other units based on that platform like the High current gamers, low end. Old designs maybe, but not actually low end.

They work perfectly fine in systems that don't require individually regulated rails, AND, there are a lot of them still out there. For example, any Ryzen system would work just fine with one of them in it.

They are lower end compared to the current models available by the same makers. (That doesn't mean they are junk)

You used Seasonic as an example, the M12ii and S12ii are lower end than the current Focus's and Prime's as an example. Exception would be the 750W and above versions of the M12ii that aren't group regulated designs.

The G Series and X Series are discontinued, but they are still higher end than the M12ii and S12ii.

 

[Darkbreeze]

A GTX 1070 is low end compared to a GTX 1080 ti. That does not mean that it is low end. It is STILL high end, regardless that there is yet HIGHER end products.

 

[jankerson]

A GTX 1070 is low end compared to a GTX 1080 ti. That does not mean that it is low end. It is STILL high end, regardless that there is yet HIGHER end products.

More high mid range really, but that is splitting hairs.

Still a lot better than a GTX 1050. 😀

 

[Darkbreeze]

This guy.

 

[jankerson]

This guy.

GTX 1050 - Low end
GTX 1050TI - Low End
GTX 1060 - Mid Range
GTX 1070 - High Mid Range (Only because it's 30% faster than a GTX 1060 and a lot slower than the GTX 1080 so it's in it's own class.)
GTX 1070Ti - High End (Fills the gap between the GTX 1070 and GTX 1080)
GTX 1080 and 1080Ti - High End

But then the GTX 1080 and GTX 1080Ti will likely be Mid Range cards next year after the new ones come out. (remains to be seen though)

 

[turkey3_scratch]

This guy.

GTX 1050 - Low end
GTX 1050TI - Low End
GTX 1060 - Mid Range
GTX 1070 - High Mid Range (Only because it's 30% faster than a GTX 1060 and a lot slower than the GTX 1080 so it's in it's own class.)
GTX 1070Ti - High End (Fills the gap between the GTX 1070 and GTX 1080)
GTX 1080 and 1080Ti - High End

But then the GTX 1080 and GTX 1080Ti will likely be Mid Range cards next year after the new ones come out. (remains to be seen though)

No no no you got it all wrong. It goes like this:

GTX 1050 - 86% low end, 14% mid range
GTX 1050TI - Lowish Midish
GTX 1060 - Mid
GTX 1070 - Was high end until Nvidia demoted it by releasing 20 more Titans. Now it's 90% high 10% mid
GTX 1070Ti - As close to high end as Disney is to advertising Star Wars on bananas
GTX 1080 - High end
GTX 1080Ti - Super high
GTX Titan - Must be too high to spend the money

 

[ko888]

I love it when ko888 finally has had enough and pipes up. His answers are Techy enough to support the rationale, and in English enough to be understood by me. (Still looking for the Best Answer button....)

Discussion threads don't have a Best Answer button.

 

[Sakkura]

Ok, so apparently, contrary to almost every piece of documentation out there, it is NOT the C6/C7 states that are the culprit in this issue, which is what is commonly passed around even in most the major tech articles covering this subject, but instead is only the C7 state. Looking more closely at the data sheets I see that ko888 is correct in his assessment that it is the C7 state, alone, that is responsible for the problem because prior to 4th gen Intel processors there was only C6, with no C7 at all. So it is C7 only that is the cause of the problem.

C6 and C7 are overlapping. When the package is in C7, the cores are in C6.

C7 existed before Haswell.

 

[Onus]

I'm tempted to leave the CX-450X alone; I've not cranked up GW2 or Handbrake yet, but I still don't think I've seen it over 126W.

 

[g-unit1111]

Anyone know anything about this particular unit? Is it a good unit or a dumpster fire? Considering Cooler Master's reputation for PSUs I'm tempted to call it a dumpster fire but without knowing the OEM I wouldn't be sure as to which category to place it under.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171113

 

[Sakkura]

There only seems to have been a single review of that whole series, but it's moderately positive.

https://www.kitguru.net/components/power-supplies/zardon/cooler-master-masterwatt-650-power-supply-review/

Downside is Teapo capacitors (primary rated at 85C rather than 105C), but electrical performance is decent (sub-2% regulation, under half of ATX limit for ripple, doesn't mind crossloading). It's not the most detailed review so I wouldn't be surprised if others could find a few other small flaws, but it seems like an adequate budget unit. As long as it's budget priced, anyway. Certainly not a dumpster fire.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

I haven't seen that review yet but I'm impressed with that PSU. It's quiet, DC-DC, 5 year warranty with a fan that's seemingly better than an ordinary sleeve fan.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Ok, so apparently, contrary to almost every piece of documentation out there, it is NOT the C6/C7 states that are the culprit in this issue, which is what is commonly passed around even in most the major tech articles covering this subject, but instead is only the C7 state. Looking more closely at the data sheets I see that ko888 is correct in his assessment that it is the C7 state, alone, that is responsible for the problem because prior to 4th gen Intel processors there was only C6, with no C7 at all. So it is C7 only that is the cause of the problem.

C6 and C7 are overlapping. When the package is in C7, the cores are in C6.

C7 existed before Haswell.

Maybe, but none of the data sheets show that it is implemented. All gen1, 2 and 3 core-I data sheets that I looked at on the Intel website show C6 but not C7 in the processor states sections.

 

[Karadjgne]

C6=C7 at the core level. Package level C6 is the lowest power state with a PCIe GPU. Package C7 requires the IGP or switchable graphics. CPU will determine PC6 or PC7 automatically. Package C-states are also resolution dependent when on IGP - very large resolutions and multi-mon displays may be limited to C3 or C2.

That's what I found. Since pretty much nobody ever uses the IGP, it's pretty much moot I think.

 

[Sakkura]

This whole thing is kinda confusing. I've found posts from people with C7 in Sandy Bridge and even Nehalem systems, so I'm not really sure what's going on with the documentation.

 

[RobCrezz]

C6=C7 at the core level. Package level C6 is the lowest power state with a PCIe GPU. Package C7 requires the IGP or switchable graphics. CPU will determine PC6 or PC7 automatically. Package C-states are also resolution dependent when on IGP - very large resolutions and multi-mon displays may be limited to C3 or C2.

That's what I found. Since pretty much nobody ever uses the IGP, it's pretty much moot I think.

IGP is used more than dedicated graphics.

 

[Onus]

I haven't seen that review yet but I'm impressed with that PSU. It's quiet, DC-DC, 5 year warranty with a fan that's seemingly better than an ordinary sleeve fan.

Perhaps, but friends don't let friends buy Coolermaster. Unless your market is extremely limited (I'm so sorry!), there is always a better choice.

 

[Onus]

How do you think Aris' latest article on the PWDIS signal line on the SATA power cable will affect these recommendations? How do we know what version of SATA power cable a PSU has?

 

[Sakkura]

Oh wow. I hadn't read that article. That's going to be a mess. Lots of people having their new HDDs not working for no immediately obvious reason. Others resorting to Molex-SATA power adaptors, and we all know how reliable those tend to be...

What a stupid way to change the spec.

 

[Onus]

Yeah, that one might define the dumpster fire. Since it isn't used, is there a good reason to NOT simply cut the orange 3.3V lead?

 

[Darkbreeze]

C6=C7 at the core level. Package level C6 is the lowest power state with a PCIe GPU. Package C7 requires the IGP or switchable graphics. CPU will determine PC6 or PC7 automatically. Package C-states are also resolution dependent when on IGP - very large resolutions and multi-mon displays may be limited to C3 or C2.

That's what I found. Since pretty much nobody ever uses the IGP, it's pretty much moot I think.

Unless Intel screwed up the data sheets for Gens 1, 2 AND 3, then all Gens prior to 4th gen Haswell Core-I processors do NOT use the C7 state at the package OR core level.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

One of the changes with the new Seasonic Prime Titanium Ultra PSUs are they have these new SATA connectors.