Question Report: Super Micro Dropping China-Made Components After Backdoor Reports

[Lucian Armasu]

After reports about Chinese backdoor chips being built into its motherboards, Super Micro will stop purchasing server components made in China.

Report: Super Micro Dropping China-Made Components After Backdoor Reports : Read more

 

[bit_user]

This is fake news and you know it. There was never any remote device inside of a supermicro server that wasn't meant to be there. Some dumbass didn't know what IPKVM was.

Doesn't sound like you read the original Bloomberg piece. I found it pretty convincing.

Of course, all of the companies involved are going to deny it. There's nothing for them to gain by being honest about it. I wonder if they've even gone so far as to hire trolls and bots to decry it, in forums and message boards exactly like this one.

Anyway... welcome to the site, newcomer.

 

[littleleo]

China has stolen more tech then it has developed. If you don't know that then this is a surprise to you. however if you had to deal with China in business you know that it is true.

 

[AllanGH]

This is fake news and you know it.

It is a news story. Whether the claims are baseless or not, it is still what is relevant to our society. So, let's not go down the mentally challenged rabbit hole of screaming "FAKE NEWS!" at something that may be controversial to you.

After so many years of being subjected to that BS line, I am sick to my eyeballs of hearing and seeing "FAKE NEWS!" ignorantly thrown-around with total disregard to the subject matter of the story published.

Particularly by somebody who appears to have only signed up to make the claim.

 

[AllanGH]

Yeah....it was a matter of time.

This issue was raised a few years ago as a possibility, since China is so very friendly (not) with Western nations.

 

[Griffincash]

It is a news story. Whether the claims are baseless or not, it is still what is relevant to our society. So, let's not go down the mentally challenged rabbit hole of screaming "FAKE NEWS!" at something that may be controversial to you.

After so many years of being subjected to that BS line, I am sick to my eyeballs of hearing and seeing "FAKE NEWS!" ignorantly thrown-around with total disregard to the subject matter of the story published.

Particularly by somebody who appears to have only signed up to make the claim.

I'm sick of bloggers acting like journalist. Make the headline something factual AND related to the article. They did not make these changes based on that reports; there is zero evidence of such. The news is "supermicro is dropping Chinese suppliers", the fake part is where they tied it to the backdoor bullcrap.

 

[AllanGH]

I'm sick of bloggers acting like journalist.

Um-hmmm....and, as a professional tech journalist, with direct contact with this segment of the industry, I'm sure that offends you greatly, doesn't it?

I offer you my sincerest sympathies.

Nonetheless, we have no evidence one way or the other, at the moment; so, we will have to content ourselves with the fact that a large corporation has announced that it is dropping contracts with Chinese suppliers (a major move), and have stated a reason for this action.....and you are calling it BS.

Время разъясняет правду.

 

[Griffincash]

Dude. I agree with almost everything you've said. My point is they didn't report all the new information available regarding that Bloomberg article. It was a click bait headline that didn't need to be. The real news in the article will be overshadowed by some shit that didn't happen.

 

[AllanGH]

Again, facts don't hide for very long.

I have dealt with China extensively and understand the politics, governance, and culture. The motivation and means do exist to have those kinds of external resources available to the Chinese.

It remains to be seen if the government of China has been wiling to take the steps to take advantage of many such opportunities.

 

[DalaiLamar]

There was an investigation into the allegations after denials from Apple and Supermicro and they found nothing to back them up. This is fake news.

 

[AllanGH]

Perhaps....but I am on the road, traveling between Los Angeles, and San Bernardino, and I'll research the issue myself....later. I am not persuaded by what appear to be specious arguments by somebody who gives the appearance of emotional investment in convincing me of his own point of view.

 

[AllanGH]

The reporting is credible, and touches upon corporate denial mechanisms that I have worked within and am very familiar with.

To call this...uh...flawed reporting is intellectually disingenuous, and quite in line with the expectations of those who hurl the epithet, "Fake News!" without researching the matter themselves.

I have zero respect for that kind of duplicitous rhetoric.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...ny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies

"The companies’ denials are countered by six current and former senior national security officials, who—in conversations that began during the Obama administration and continued under the Trump administration—detailed the discovery of the chips and the government’s investigation. One of those officials and two people inside AWS provided extensive information on how the attack played out at Elemental and Amazon; the official and one of the insiders also described Amazon’s cooperation with the government investigation. In addition to the three Apple insiders, four of the six U.S. officials confirmed that Apple was a victim. In all, 17 people confirmed the manipulation of Supermicro’s hardware and other elements of the attacks. The sources were granted anonymity because of the sensitive, and in some cases classified, nature of the information."

 

[jasonelmore]

Next, the US needs to prohibit Chinese nationals from working at American research Universities like MIT, Caltech, Princeton, Yale, etc.. The Chinese are robbing the US research complex blind. I do not suggest this lightly, but it's become clear that China has spies everywhere inside the United States. Week after week I read articles about the Chinese stealing research from American Universities. China has developed a poor reputation in this regard and it's finally catching up with them.

Yeah, Apple would never admit to such a breach. Security is fundamental to Apple's brand. Similarly, the Bloomberg article was sourced from multiple people throughout the supply chain. It's not like they wrote the piece based on a couple of government workers. Bloomberg has been vindicated.

 

[bit_user]

Next, the US needs to prohibit Chinese nationals from working at American research Universities like MIT, Caltech, Princeton, Yale, etc.

You know that most research is in the public domain, right? Academics' goal is to publish and present their findings at conferences, etc.

Where things get dicey is in sensitive, DoD-funded research. There, I would support the idea of having some security clearance requirement, and universities receiving such grants needs to secure the relevant information and materials.

Industrial espionage is another major concern. Speaking of which, remember when tons of electronics were failing due to bad capacitors? That was allegedly due to theft of secrets related to capacitor production, but was missing a vital, secret element. I think the fallout from that incident has been a boon for the Japanese capacitor industry, which has probably done much better than if the theft never occurred. I realize most IP theft doesn't have such a silver lining (for the victim, at least), but that case probably worked in their favor.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

Biased != fake.
Incorrect != fake.
Incomplete != fake.
And finally, false != fake.

A piece can be any or all of those things without intent of deception on the part of the author. Decrying a report or editorial that you disagree with as "fake news" can be just as intellectually lazy as accepting it at face value.

 

[dudmont]

Companies cutting ties with chicom manufacturers is fundementally a good thing. The chicoms seem to respond somewhat to economic incentives.
Editorializing by "news" story has been going on for decades and is reason #1 why the news has lost so much credibility.
Trying to morally equivilize the government's of the US and China is definitely not a hill I'd want to try and defend. One simple reason called checks and balances.

 

[digitalgriffin]

You know that most research is in the public domain, right? Academics' goal is to publish and present their findings at conferences, etc.

Where things get dicey is in sensitive, DoD-funded research. There, I would support the idea of having some security clearance requirement, and universities receiving such grants needs to secure the relevant information and materials.

Industrial espionage is another major concern. Speaking of which, remember when tons of electronics were failing due to bad capacitors? That was allegedly due to theft of secrets related to capacitor production, but was missing a vital, secret element. I think the fallout from that incident has been a boon for the Japanese capacitor industry, which has probably done much better than if the theft never occurred. I realize most IP theft doesn't have such a silver lining (for the victim, at least), but that case probably worked in their favor.

Yes and no. Universities claim all rights to works published by their professors. That means if some industrial process uses their innovation, they have a right collect royalties.

Professors have moved from teaching students to being pushed to publish research papers. It gives a potential avenue of revenue to the university, as well as brings the University "clout" and "recognition." This means more students applying and more grants from the business world to continue research. (Battery tech are a hot one that is being fought over.)

But to your point, not everything is public. MIT has discontinued work with Huawei in targeting problems with their 5G implementation. Why? Because they (Huawei) have not patched the vast majority of them. And if Huawei is indeed in bed with Chinese Gov't Espionage, then we are giving away what leaks we know about, which makes it harder to us to track attacks.

 

[bit_user]

Wow. I'm speechless. I guess your own words already say it so well:

I am sick of seeing such crap as I am seeing above in this forum....

Lets be open about this....

...

China is probably trying to spy, but as a counter measure to the AMERICANS,

...

Does China steal tech?
... We give it to them and they use it themselves.

Americans; why do they use China? to exploit Cheap labour, so they use legit back doors to exploit human rights,
...

... This is one of those cases where their is no proof, but ... Press then Print the BS they are told, and not being tech savy, delibrerately spin it worse.

... Saddam ruled the middle east like an Iron first, only because he needed to to keep the terrorists subverted.

...

Sorry AllanGH , ... you talk like a politician ... you are just another puppet of the industrial movement.

... shut up and stop spewing crap on this forum.

You are like one of those people that say Crimea was illegally annexed, ...

And, lastly:

... show me using proper independant reseach ... Oh no you can't... It is all conjecture... just like your reasoning!

I couldn't think of a better response, myself.

BTW, the part about Crimea was an interesting diversion, perhaps trying to confuse us into thinking you're a Russian troll. I'm not taking the bait, though. I think they're probably better than that.

 

[bit_user]

Love the comment. You evasive answering shows how critical you are. Like a typical politician, you avoid the real questions and just pick holes in points calling troll where you cannot disagree.

Oh, you'd better believe I can disagree with your blatant propaganda. I just not taking the bait.

China is America, just cheaper and less ambiguous to its intentions.

Interesting, but wrong. The US has a constitution that actually means something. Its citizens have actual rights. In China, you are at the whims of the party. You cannot get good legal representation, because they lock up and repress all of the lawyers who try to defend justice and hold the state to its own laws.

you mock without really making ME understand what you are mocking.

That's a pointless exercise, because you know exactly what you're doing. Moreover, you'll never accept my interpretation, so it just leads down a rathole that turns this whole thing into what seems like a subjective difference of opinion. However, I'm not about to put real facts on the same level as your propaganda, so as to lend it any legitimacy.

you only mock it pointing out that it MUST MEAN that I am a Russian troll.

I don't really know or care who you are or what's your intent. What I do know is that you're up to no good, trying to equivocate and spread propaganda. So long as that's understood, your purpose is irrelevant.

It would appear to me that you are nothing more that an over opinionated person who hates when he is put to question. SO SO SAD!!!

I'm happy to discuss and debate opinions, but not facts. And not with someone I deem utterly untrustworthy.

So, let's talk about you. I see you're essentially new to this site, with only 6 messages under your belt. What drew you here and what's you objective?

 

[AllanGH]

In the 1960's, China made a mistake in its nuclear programme, and allowed a high yield nuclear weapon go off prematurely, killing pretty-much all of its leading scientists and technologically-educated workers. It's not likely that any CHinese citizen would know this, since the government has a policy of continually "saving face"...which means that it lies to its citizens without any scrap of remorse, or any break in the stream of lies.

I know this because my father headed the VELA satellite programme, in the United States, which both detected the detonation, and determined the consequences of the blast. For a time, this was classified information, of which I became aware at the time--because I was a sneaky little snoop, and had a scientific upbringing which allowed me to understand the documents I was reading. Even now, it is little discussed, but we do know what happened, which forms the foundation of Chinas behaviour, now.

Since that time, China has been digging itself out of a self-imposed technological dark ages, and instituted policies of spying and stealing technology, so that it could repair the self-imposed destruction of its scientifically educated workforce.

China does not spy and steal technology because of the spying of other nations. It does so in attempt to regain the progress that China lost when it ineptly blew-up its own scientists--pretty-much all in the same disaster. Because it would lose face this is probably a closely guarded secret within China, and a plethora of propaganda exists to gloss-over the discovery of Chinas own mistake, by its own citizens--after all, you can't trust a government that would make such a huge mistake, and not admit it to its own population, could you?

Fact: China steals technological information from other nations, and exacts technological information from corporations which contract services from Chinese companies which are politically controlled by the Chinese government. (I have attempted to contract for device assembly services from Chinese corporations, and the requirement conveyed to me was the release of technological specifics of everything contained in the final device...not just the portions that were subject to the manufacturing process for which I sought contract services.)

Fact: China has wide and very prolific spying programmes, which remain active and expanding today.

Fact: China is VERY interested in controlling other nations to its own advantage, and will brook nothing less than total advantage over others, in what it assumes to be a coming global conflict. This policy does embrace the inclusion of both information gathering and dissemination methodologies, along with "kill switch" technologies in information transmission and processing equipment manufactured within its borders.

To deny this is both ignorant of the facts, and a willing consumer of lies.

I respect the Chinese culture, and its people, and value the friendships that I have formed with people therein. I regard many as personal friends, but I realize that they are as subject to the Chinese government, and its laws, as I am by the government and laws of the nation I inhabit.

I, do, however, absolutely disdain the system of government of the PRC, and see how damaging it is to its own people, and understand how very weak and frightened such a government is, when it hides behind a continual shield of lies.

Our governments are enemies to one another, but that does not mean that we cannot ignore the propaganda of both governments, and co-exist peacefully with each other.

OK...that's my humble contribution to the evolving discussion, and I am off to do my work.

 

[AllanGH]

Now there are a Few points AllanGH that i need you to consider without trashing on China;

We are fast approaching that point at which open discourse is not possible, because this is straying into the territory of politics, wherein my perspectives are highly offensive to those who support the current administration. I have already received warnings and reprimands for open speech on such matters, and I don't wish to repeat the infraction--mainly out of respect for the moderators who have to put up with the resultant chaos and umbrage.

It would be best if, at least on my part, I move my response into the private messaging or email environs.

 

[bit_user]

In the 1960's, China made a mistake in its nuclear programme, and allowed a high yield nuclear weapon go off prematurely, killing pretty-much all of its leading scientists and technologically-educated workers.

Even if the nuclear detonation part is true, it's quite improbable that the entire educated class of such a large country was concentrated in the blast radius of that bomb.

Have you not heard of the Cultural Revolution? It was an anti-intellectual movement lead by Chairman Mao that persecuted intellectuals and put them all to work in the fields. As a result, China's educational system and technological progress was halted in its tracks. After things settled down, it took a while to get the whole system running, again. I'm not saying this was the only factor contributing to China's technological retardation, but probably the biggest. I'm sure Communism didn't exactly help, either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution#Policy_and_effect

the government has a policy of continually "saving face"...which means that it lies to its citizens without any scrap of remorse, or any break in the stream of lies.

You mean like how they dissemble and repress information about the massacre of the Tiananmen Square protesters?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests#Death_toll

It's an interesting coincidence that we're just a week out from the 30th anniversary of that tragedy.

Since that time, China has been digging itself out of a self-imposed technological dark ages, and instituted policies of spying and stealing technology, so that it could repair the self-imposed destruction of its scientifically educated workforce.

China does not spy and steal technology because of the spying of other nations. It does so in attempt to regain the progress that China lost when it ineptly blew-up its own scientists--pretty-much all in the same disaster.

AFAIK, China has had a chip on its shoulder since the May 4th agreement, after WWI, if not going all the way back to the Opium Wars. China has a long history of being a regional hegemon and probably believes it as right and just to use any means necessary to regain what they see as their rightful position of power and prestige, in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Fourth_Movement

Opium Wars - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[bit_user]

There is something that I can respond to rather than BITUSERS tripe and personal opinion and stubborn attitude towards different opinions and based fact.

As far as I can tell, your only purpose, here, is to spread anti-American propaganda. I will not legitimize such claims by addressing them as though they have any sort of merit. Of course, you mix in enough fact so as to avoid seeming completely out there.

I suspect you're even using a hacked account that probably just had a weak password.

I am an engineer that was Employed by the British Government to deal with some of the issues above.

Ha! Certainly not.

we are signed up to Official Secrets policies. I would love to expose many things that I cannot.

Pretty much 100% of online posters claiming to work for secretive government agencies do not.

 

[AllanGH]

Have you not heard of the Cultural Revolution?

The "Cultural Revolution" began 2 years after the detonation, and is quite typical of "Saving Face" manoeuvres used by those in power in China.

There is no advantage to be gained in arguing the facts of the errant detonation, nor the damage it caused to the scientific community in China at that time. It is sufficient that it took 25 years for them to recover from it, and the affect it had upon their motivation to catch up, technologically, with the rest of the world--policies instituted during that time persist today. If you are content in attributing it all solely to Chairman Mao's policies, I will not disabuse you of your comfort.

As I mentioned earlier. I'm restricting my participation in further discussion of this particular topic to those means which allow me greater freedom of expression without creating a circus-like atmosphere which would instigate thread closure.

 

[bit_user]

The "Cultural Revolution" began 2 years after the detonation, and is quite typical of "Saving Face" manoeuvres used by those in power in China.

So, the Cultural Revolution was a face-saving maneuver? Sorry, I can't agree with that.

I don't understand why you're so invested in this nuclear detonation theory. First, it's irrelevant to the discussion. It doesn't really matter why China has a chip on their shoulder. We can agree that, to a large extent, their development was delayed as a consequence of their own actions. Second, it doesn't strike me as plausible that they would concentrate the entire intellectual class of such a big country in one city. Third, enough information leaks out of China that such a tragedy should be much more widely known.

This has all the hallmarks of an unhinged conspiracy theory. The only part I can't dispute is that they had some sort of costly nuclear accident. That much is believable.

There is no advantage to be gained in arguing the facts of the errant detonation, nor the damage it caused to the scientific community in China at that time.

Okay, so let's drop it. Unless you can point me at some serious scholarship on the subject, I'm about as likely to believe it as the claims posted by our new friend.