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DoDidDont
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- May 27, 2009
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I called Microsoft, well had them call me back before I updated my Win 7 Pro x64 retail, to Win 10 Pro last week, as I had the same concerns.
The guy I spoke to assured me that I can always go back to Win 7 if its a retail version, even after one month, or the 29th July next year, and basically stated that they cannot change the contract conditions of the original Win 7 pro x64 purchase.
After reading so much about this the last few days, I was unsure again so this time chatted to a Microsoft agent online.
The agent made it a lot clearer, and it doesn't sound good for the long run if you upgraded from a retail licence and want to stick with Win 10.
I selected all text and copy pasted it to my notepad before ending the chat, so can paste it here minus my product key if needed.
Basically, or not so basically...
I asked lots of questions, from upgrading your OS drive to building a completely new system, and what happens to the retail licence etc.
If you upgraded from a Retail version of 7 or 8/8.1 you can go back to win 7 in my case any time you want, and it should activate without any problems, even after the 29th July next year. Note: "Go back", not keep using windows 10.
If you upgrade your primary O/S drive, the agent recommended that you install windows 7 first, activate it, install all updates, then update to Windows 10, then you can clean install using the Win 10 MediaCreationTool64/32 if required. He said this is the best way to ensure there are no activation problems.
If after updating to Win 10 you create a clean install dvd/usb and try to use it on the a newly purchased SSD/HDD to replace the OS drive, it may not activate, but he suggested to try it first anyway, if not install Windows 7/8 first activated with all updates, then update to Win 10...
I told the agent that I regularly upgrade hardware, and was told, as long as you have a retail licence you can make any changes you like, even the MoBo, and if at any point windows says there have been too many hardware changes and to contact Microsoft, your retail Win 7 Retail key can be used over the phone to activate it again.
I said that I will probably build a completely new system next year, and can I just transfer my licence to that system?...
This is were the bad news come in...
As long as I build the new system before the 29th July 2016, and my original Windows 7 is retail, I should be able to do the same thing, do a clean install of Win 7, activate, carry out all updates,, then update to Win 10, and create a clean install.
The agent specified the 29th July 2016 on this question, so any major changes after that date, and you will need to purchase a windows 10 licence. But from what I understood, you will always be able to go back to your retail Win 7/8 even after this date, but not use it to get Win 10 for free.
This to me sounds reasonable, after all we are all getting this as a free upgrade, if you don't want to use it, go back to Win 7/8 until its end of life.
You are not loosing your Win 7/8 licence, you just wont be able to use the key to continue using the free upgrade to Win 10 after the 29th Jjuly if any major hardware changes are made, but you wont be without an OS, you can either roll back, or pay for a new Win 10 licence.
It all sounds reasonable to me at the moment, but I will be upgrading my OS SSD soon, as my aging 256GB is near full, so will see if its as straight forward as I have been told, although I don’t call having to install the OS 3 times straight forward if you want a clean install….
If you love Win 10 and are not bothered about going back to Win7/8 in the future, it wont matter, and you know if you make to many changes you may end up having to pay for a new licence after 29th July next year, and if you are planning to build a new rig, have a retail licence and want to take advantage of the free upgrade to Win 10, then you better do it before July 29th next year, if not, you'll have to pay for it, or go back/ continue using your retail Win 7/8.
A few people have mentioned Nvidia driver problems, I had the same thing, drivers didn’t install properly, after a reboot drivers looked installed OK in the device manager, but system kept locking up apps after a few minutes, and the downloaded Win 10 Nvidia driver would not install. Used the DDU uninstaller (must be extracted and used in safe mode), tried the Nvidia driver install again, worked, and all problems were solved, and Win 10 is now running perfectly with all the apps I use, 3ds max 2016, Paintshop, Photoshop, Mudbox, After-effects etc, no problems so far, and rendering with 4 GPU’s in iray works fine.
Had a problem getting the force enable Gen 3 to work on my X79 MoBo. It no longer had any affect after reboot, and checking in GPU-Z. Problem was solved by copying the force enable gen3 exe to the main C: drive directory, and running the force enable gen 3 executable in the command prompt as Administrator. All 4 GPU’s listed, and after reboot, Gen3 works. You have to change the directory to C: first by typing cd C/: then type in force-enable-gen3.exe . A security warning will pop up, but just accept it, Done. You have Gen3 enabled next time you reboot. No need to mess around in the registry
I had micro stutter after upgrading from two GPU’s to quad sli in windows 7 Pro on a few games like BioShock infinite and Meto Last Light, tried every way possible to get rid of it, but never could, luckily most games ran fine, and the micro stutter was very intermittent.
Tried Bioshock infinite and Metro in win10 in Quad sli with GTX titans, and the stutter is completely gone, runs very smooth even with Vsync off, in fact sickeningly smooth, so that’s one thing I am happy about with Win 10. Apart from that it seems to be just like Win7 but with all the cr*p I don’t like about win 8 shoved into the start menu. It also feels a bit more polished than its predecessors, and 100% stable so far since the Nvidia driver problem was fixed. (touch laminated wood!)
Not sure if all this reassures anyone, it seems one person says this, another says that, one agent from MS says this another says something completely different, but the way I look at it, is you’re getting this for free, and if the agent I spoke to is right, you will always have your Win 7/8 licence to go back to, that is until it reaches its end of life, then you have to upgrade eventually, so why not take advantage of the free offer, and if you are always building new systems, don’t think of the free win10 upgrade as an extension of your existing Win 7/8 licence, think of it as a one year lease, after that, you know you’ll need to purchase a new licence if you make too many hardware changes like the MoBo and want to continue with Win 10. Don't like the sound of that? Go back to Win 7/8.
The guy I spoke to assured me that I can always go back to Win 7 if its a retail version, even after one month, or the 29th July next year, and basically stated that they cannot change the contract conditions of the original Win 7 pro x64 purchase.
After reading so much about this the last few days, I was unsure again so this time chatted to a Microsoft agent online.
The agent made it a lot clearer, and it doesn't sound good for the long run if you upgraded from a retail licence and want to stick with Win 10.
I selected all text and copy pasted it to my notepad before ending the chat, so can paste it here minus my product key if needed.
Basically, or not so basically...
I asked lots of questions, from upgrading your OS drive to building a completely new system, and what happens to the retail licence etc.
If you upgraded from a Retail version of 7 or 8/8.1 you can go back to win 7 in my case any time you want, and it should activate without any problems, even after the 29th July next year. Note: "Go back", not keep using windows 10.
If you upgrade your primary O/S drive, the agent recommended that you install windows 7 first, activate it, install all updates, then update to Windows 10, then you can clean install using the Win 10 MediaCreationTool64/32 if required. He said this is the best way to ensure there are no activation problems.
If after updating to Win 10 you create a clean install dvd/usb and try to use it on the a newly purchased SSD/HDD to replace the OS drive, it may not activate, but he suggested to try it first anyway, if not install Windows 7/8 first activated with all updates, then update to Win 10...
I told the agent that I regularly upgrade hardware, and was told, as long as you have a retail licence you can make any changes you like, even the MoBo, and if at any point windows says there have been too many hardware changes and to contact Microsoft, your retail Win 7 Retail key can be used over the phone to activate it again.
I said that I will probably build a completely new system next year, and can I just transfer my licence to that system?...
This is were the bad news come in...
As long as I build the new system before the 29th July 2016, and my original Windows 7 is retail, I should be able to do the same thing, do a clean install of Win 7, activate, carry out all updates,, then update to Win 10, and create a clean install.
The agent specified the 29th July 2016 on this question, so any major changes after that date, and you will need to purchase a windows 10 licence. But from what I understood, you will always be able to go back to your retail Win 7/8 even after this date, but not use it to get Win 10 for free.
This to me sounds reasonable, after all we are all getting this as a free upgrade, if you don't want to use it, go back to Win 7/8 until its end of life.
You are not loosing your Win 7/8 licence, you just wont be able to use the key to continue using the free upgrade to Win 10 after the 29th Jjuly if any major hardware changes are made, but you wont be without an OS, you can either roll back, or pay for a new Win 10 licence.
It all sounds reasonable to me at the moment, but I will be upgrading my OS SSD soon, as my aging 256GB is near full, so will see if its as straight forward as I have been told, although I don’t call having to install the OS 3 times straight forward if you want a clean install….
If you love Win 10 and are not bothered about going back to Win7/8 in the future, it wont matter, and you know if you make to many changes you may end up having to pay for a new licence after 29th July next year, and if you are planning to build a new rig, have a retail licence and want to take advantage of the free upgrade to Win 10, then you better do it before July 29th next year, if not, you'll have to pay for it, or go back/ continue using your retail Win 7/8.
A few people have mentioned Nvidia driver problems, I had the same thing, drivers didn’t install properly, after a reboot drivers looked installed OK in the device manager, but system kept locking up apps after a few minutes, and the downloaded Win 10 Nvidia driver would not install. Used the DDU uninstaller (must be extracted and used in safe mode), tried the Nvidia driver install again, worked, and all problems were solved, and Win 10 is now running perfectly with all the apps I use, 3ds max 2016, Paintshop, Photoshop, Mudbox, After-effects etc, no problems so far, and rendering with 4 GPU’s in iray works fine.
Had a problem getting the force enable Gen 3 to work on my X79 MoBo. It no longer had any affect after reboot, and checking in GPU-Z. Problem was solved by copying the force enable gen3 exe to the main C: drive directory, and running the force enable gen 3 executable in the command prompt as Administrator. All 4 GPU’s listed, and after reboot, Gen3 works. You have to change the directory to C: first by typing cd C/: then type in force-enable-gen3.exe . A security warning will pop up, but just accept it, Done. You have Gen3 enabled next time you reboot. No need to mess around in the registry
I had micro stutter after upgrading from two GPU’s to quad sli in windows 7 Pro on a few games like BioShock infinite and Meto Last Light, tried every way possible to get rid of it, but never could, luckily most games ran fine, and the micro stutter was very intermittent.
Tried Bioshock infinite and Metro in win10 in Quad sli with GTX titans, and the stutter is completely gone, runs very smooth even with Vsync off, in fact sickeningly smooth, so that’s one thing I am happy about with Win 10. Apart from that it seems to be just like Win7 but with all the cr*p I don’t like about win 8 shoved into the start menu. It also feels a bit more polished than its predecessors, and 100% stable so far since the Nvidia driver problem was fixed. (touch laminated wood!)
Not sure if all this reassures anyone, it seems one person says this, another says that, one agent from MS says this another says something completely different, but the way I look at it, is you’re getting this for free, and if the agent I spoke to is right, you will always have your Win 7/8 licence to go back to, that is until it reaches its end of life, then you have to upgrade eventually, so why not take advantage of the free offer, and if you are always building new systems, don’t think of the free win10 upgrade as an extension of your existing Win 7/8 licence, think of it as a one year lease, after that, you know you’ll need to purchase a new licence if you make too many hardware changes like the MoBo and want to continue with Win 10. Don't like the sound of that? Go back to Win 7/8.
Narcissistic_Martyr
Honorable
- Aug 15, 2013
- 257
- 0
- 10,810
I run a computer repair shop and I'm torn... on the one hand this is gonna be a massive PITA... on the other... I'm gonna make so much money...
Joseph Jasik
Reputable
- Feb 24, 2015
- 26
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- 4,530
jitpublisher
Splendid
- May 16, 2006
- 8,747
- 2
- 31,960
I had the misfortune of a failed SSD shortly after upgrading to windows 10. This did let me learn a few things though.
First of all, reinstalling from the USB media i created, did not result in an activated windows 10. So...good luck reinstalling directly to windows 10 if needed in the future, it doesn't work.
Second, i know its still well within the 30 days, but my windows 8.1 key still worked fine, activated and had no issues. I then upgraded from a clean 8.1 install to win10 with no issues, fully activated when done.
Bottom line is, MS is shying away from specifics of how this works because currently, it just doesn't work as advertised. It could be that because i have a self-built pc and not a retail brand that has key's embedded in the motherboard, the clean install will never work right, or it could be something entirely different, its really hard to tell since MS is so vague about what the processes are.
First of all, reinstalling from the USB media i created, did not result in an activated windows 10. So...good luck reinstalling directly to windows 10 if needed in the future, it doesn't work.
Second, i know its still well within the 30 days, but my windows 8.1 key still worked fine, activated and had no issues. I then upgraded from a clean 8.1 install to win10 with no issues, fully activated when done.
Bottom line is, MS is shying away from specifics of how this works because currently, it just doesn't work as advertised. It could be that because i have a self-built pc and not a retail brand that has key's embedded in the motherboard, the clean install will never work right, or it could be something entirely different, its really hard to tell since MS is so vague about what the processes are.
surphninja
Honorable
- May 14, 2013
- 207
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- 10,680
I want more details on how Microsoft is noticing any hardware change in my system, even after formatting the drive. Are they altering the firmware on any of my hardware? Because that is not cool at all.
If they have the capability to do that, I would prefer they help me patch that backdoor rather than exploit it, because that is a serious security risk.
If they have the capability to do that, I would prefer they help me patch that backdoor rather than exploit it, because that is a serious security risk.
surphninja
Honorable
- May 14, 2013
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Kinda seems like a lot of the complaints here with compatibility issues are something that needs to be addressed by the software/hardware vendors- not Microsoft.
- Jul 12, 2013
- 4,876
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THE SILENCE!!!
Sorry, couldn't resist. Yeah, MS is turning into a bigger control freak... Once I back up, I'm planning on making my main driver a dual boot, so my mom doesn't have to worry about Linux... I wish I had my tri boot Linux with me right now...
Sorry, couldn't resist. Yeah, MS is turning into a bigger control freak... Once I back up, I'm planning on making my main driver a dual boot, so my mom doesn't have to worry about Linux... I wish I had my tri boot Linux with me right now...
MarkW
Judicious
- Dec 7, 2009
- 6,308
- 0
- 32,960
I keep laughing about these Linux statements.
If you break out the various versions of Windows into their own category, Windows Vista is now the least used version of Windows, and Windows Vista alone has more users than all versions of Linux combined. See those black dots paralleling the red Linux line... That is the 'Other' category, which is stuff like OS/2. It has the same number of users Linux has.So much for Linux taking over the planet.
Chart came from here
If you break out the various versions of Windows into their own category, Windows Vista is now the least used version of Windows, and Windows Vista alone has more users than all versions of Linux combined. See those black dots paralleling the red Linux line... That is the 'Other' category, which is stuff like OS/2. It has the same number of users Linux has.So much for Linux taking over the planet.
Chart came from here
Ransome
Distinguished
- Jul 24, 2012
- 1,163
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I upgraded from Win 8.1 Pro, using the tool, and picked KEEP NOTHING. It said in the "help" section that I would be able to roll back.
After Win 10 Pro was installed, I entered the RECOVERY section to check, but I only have RESET and ADVANCED STARTUP. Even though I have had Windows.old folder in my C, there was no "Go back to Windows 8.1" option.
I deleted windows.old using disk-cleanup after wards, since there was no point keeping it anymore..
Strange, I thought clean installing using "keep nothing" should have had that option...
After Win 10 Pro was installed, I entered the RECOVERY section to check, but I only have RESET and ADVANCED STARTUP. Even though I have had Windows.old folder in my C, there was no "Go back to Windows 8.1" option.
I deleted windows.old using disk-cleanup after wards, since there was no point keeping it anymore..
Strange, I thought clean installing using "keep nothing" should have had that option...
Christopher1
Distinguished
- Aug 29, 2006
- 667
- 3
- 19,015
Microsoft needs to realize that home users don't like hoops to jump through. They should just allow ALL home users to install Windows 10 with no hoops to jump through and get their money for licenses from OEM's and businesses.
Christopher1
Distinguished
- Aug 29, 2006
- 667
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I seriously doubt this. I am running Windows 10 and my computers (ranging from a gaming laptop to el-cheapo Acer laptops) don't have this issue while gaming. It sounds like you do have a virus or malware on your machine and should run MalwareBytes.
I don't see what the problem is. If you register Windows 10 with a certain computer then your serial would likely have to be transferred to any other system you wanted to migrate to through customer service.
Why is that such a huge scare for people? I doubt they're forcing customers to buy a new serial, more likely they are just invalidating the original and processing you a new one. I've had other hardware dependent software that worked the same way like TriDef, every time you get a new GPU you have to have a new serial validated. Sounds like the same situation instead with motherboards.
Why is that such a huge scare for people? I doubt they're forcing customers to buy a new serial, more likely they are just invalidating the original and processing you a new one. I've had other hardware dependent software that worked the same way like TriDef, every time you get a new GPU you have to have a new serial validated. Sounds like the same situation instead with motherboards.
+
guessing it hasn't been tried or just doesn't work with everyone because i don't see it as a solution anywhere:
I upgraded my Windows 8.1 system to Windows 10 and let 10 auto-activate, it generates a new serial. Then installed 8.1 again on a second partition and activated using it's printed serial. Now, have dual-boot 8.1\10 with both activated.
guessing it hasn't been tried or just doesn't work with everyone because i don't see it as a solution anywhere:
I upgraded my Windows 8.1 system to Windows 10 and let 10 auto-activate, it generates a new serial. Then installed 8.1 again on a second partition and activated using it's printed serial. Now, have dual-boot 8.1\10 with both activated.
MarkW
Judicious
- Dec 7, 2009
- 6,308
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There are far too many pirated copies of Windows out there for them to ever do that. Sooner or later, Microsoft will force us to go to a subscription based Windows, and then they might well just give it away. But until that day comes (and I think it will within a year or two), they will make sure you have a valid Windows License before giving you another one.
surphninja
Honorable
- May 14, 2013
- 207
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That day may come, but for now I'd like to know why the hell they're putting ads in software we paid for. Either software is free, with the caveat that they'll be data mining and showing you ads, or software is paid and ad free.
Why the hell are they making money through ads and data mining on top of charging for the OS? Completely unethical and unacceptable double-dipping bullspit.
what other ads and data miners have you found imbedded in Windows 10? maybe you got a pirate copy with extra content. been using since the start of the Tech Preview and never got an advertisement for anything inside Windows.
surphninja
Honorable
- May 14, 2013
- 207
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Consenting to ads and data mining shouldn't be required for full functionality of an OS. Yes, you can turn off a bunch of settings to regain your privacy (if you can find every setting), but it requires disabling half of the new features, because they've intertwined your advertising id and the new services.
I'd gladly opt out of the "free" upgrade and pay, if it meant being kept clear of their advertising and harvesting system.
It's a really bizarre thing to say "what ads in Windows 10." Are you a small town cop on tv saying "nothing to see here"? The platform is built to harvest data and push ads. This isn't news.
surphninja
Honorable
- May 14, 2013
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