Rumor: AMD's Single-GPU R9 390X Will Be Liquid Cooled

[Bloob]

It's a flagship card, it should have the best of everything, including cooling, no matter the power draw. I mean coolers are infidels and need to be silenced.

 

[renz496]

What is all this BS from Nvidia fanboys claiming that because AMD is using an AIO cooler for the R9 390 series, therefore it uses a lot of power and it sucks. Where is the source to back it up?

if it's not going to generate a lot of heat then why put liquid cooler on it? liquid cooler is good but imagine if you want to do crossfire with it. each card have their own radiator. don't talk about quad fire even two of them might be problematic. so i don't think AMD going to use such solution if there is no real need for it.

 

[renz496]

Has anyone also considered that this AIO cooler might be fully built into the shroud? I have a 92mm radiator in my PC, and it could easily be reconfigured to fit inside my 7970...

If it used a radiator inside the card, then there would be no reason to use liquid cooling. The advantage of liquid cooling is to allow for a larger radiator or to move the heat to another location, but left inside the card at the same size, it has no real advantage.

Not true. The actual processor on the board is the part that needs to stay cool. If they put the die on the far end of the board, and then used liquid tubes to move the heat quickly to the radiator at the other end, it could cool it better than just a big block of metal.

the gpu core is not the only component needed to be cooled.

 

[CaptainTom]

I don't understand the Driver-argument. Poor drivers hasn't been the case with ATI/AMD for at least 10 years.

Do the following: Go to google.com, search for "display driver has stopped responding". And at the end you add Nvidia. How many hits do you get? Then you do the same with AMD. How many hits do you get?
In my experience, Nvidia drivers suck. Newer versions of drivers give poorer performance and all kinds of issues left and right. And I only just got the dam card. I've had ATI-cards for 15 years. I did have the original Geforce once upon a time. Thats when ATI last had driver issues IMHO.
The black-screen issue is not about drivers. It is about their partners (Sapphire etc) trying to be cheap in terms of components (but failing). And Nvidia has that same issue. Can't fix hardware limitations with software.

Do the following: Google "BSoD Nvidia" then google "BSoD AMD" . How many hits you get?

And what does that prove? Google works in mysterious ways. FYI Sapphire is one of the best Radeon partners on the market. To me, it just sounds like you don't know what you're talking about.

All I am going to say is that me and my brother switched to AMD because Nvidia's drivers were god awful. I constantly had to switch driver versions, and my brother's SLI literally could not have its flickering problem fixed. I build PC's for people too, so don't think you are talking to someone who isn't a pro at trouble shooting.

 

[CaptainTom]

Has anyone also considered that this AIO cooler might be fully built into the shroud? I have a 92mm radiator in my PC, and it could easily be reconfigured to fit inside my 7970...

If it used a radiator inside the card, then there would be no reason to use liquid cooling. The advantage of liquid cooling is to allow for a larger radiator or to move the heat to another location, but left inside the card at the same size, it has no real advantage.

Not true. The actual processor on the board is the part that needs to stay cool. If they put the die on the far end of the board, and then used liquid tubes to move the heat quickly to the radiator at the other end, it could cool it better than just a big block of metal.

the gpu core is not the only component needed to be cooled.

LOL then what is?

 

[anthony8989]

Has anyone also considered that this AIO cooler might be fully built into the shroud? I have a 92mm radiator in my PC, and it could easily be reconfigured to fit inside my 7970...

If it used a radiator inside the card, then there would be no reason to use liquid cooling. The advantage of liquid cooling is to allow for a larger radiator or to move the heat to another location, but left inside the card at the same size, it has no real advantage.

Not true. The actual processor on the board is the part that needs to stay cool. If they put the die on the far end of the board, and then used liquid tubes to move the heat quickly to the radiator at the other end, it could cool it better than just a big block of metal.

the gpu core is not the only component needed to be cooled.

LOL then what is?

Memory modules, VRM....

 

[4ktv]

I don't understand the Driver-argument. Poor drivers hasn't been the case with ATI/AMD for at least 10 years.

Do the following: Go to google.com, search for "display driver has stopped responding". And at the end you add Nvidia. How many hits do you get? Then you do the same with AMD. How many hits do you get?
In my experience, Nvidia drivers suck. Newer versions of drivers give poorer performance and all kinds of issues left and right. And I only just got the dam card. I've had ATI-cards for 15 years. I did have the original Geforce once upon a time. Thats when ATI last had driver issues IMHO.
The black-screen issue is not about drivers. It is about their partners (Sapphire etc) trying to be cheap in terms of components (but failing). And Nvidia has that same issue. Can't fix hardware limitations with software.

Do the following: Google "BSoD Nvidia" then google "BSoD AMD" . How many hits you get?

And what does that prove? Google works in mysterious ways. FYI Sapphire is one of the best Radeon partners on the market. To me, it just sounds like you don't know what you're talking about.

All I am going to say is that me and my brother switched to AMD because Nvidia's drivers were god awful. I constantly had to switch driver versions, and my brother's SLI literally could not have its flickering problem fixed. I build PC's for people too, so don't think you are talking to someone who isn't a pro at trouble shooting.

I know when I got my ATI(AMD) HD 4870 the drivers were good right out of the box. Got a GTX 580 later and while at the time it was a monster being the single fastest GPU it had a number of issues with drivers.

 

[fkr]

I always thought people generally bought reference design in order to water cool them. on another note who generally buys reference designs, i always wait for a better cooler to come out by another manufacturer. I also thought all of the good r9 290x's actually stayed pretty cool and comparably quiet to nvidia now.

nvidia made a much better reference cooler but aftermarket more or less leveled the playing field

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/asus_radeon_r9_290x_matrix_review,14.html

this shows them to be within one db of each other so how are not saying the cards are equal in performance but the AMD is cheaper.

 

[IInuyasha74]

I always thought people generally bought reference design in order to water cool them. on another note who generally buys reference designs, i always wait for a better cooler to come out by another manufacturer. I also thought all of the good r9 290x's actually stayed pretty cool and comparably quiet to nvidia now.

nvidia made a much better reference cooler but aftermarket more or less leveled the playing field

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/asus_radeon_r9_290x_matrix_review,14.html

this shows them to be within one db of each other so how are not saying the cards are equal in performance but the AMD is cheaper.

I think only people who just cannot wait buy reference design cards. Granted I've thought about it before thinking it would be cool because I'm a geek and it often literally says AMD on the cooler somewhere. Other than that I don't think many really buy them since OEMs know the coolers aren't typically the best and get there own stuff out ASAP.

You are right for the most part about the R9 290s and all AMD GPUs for that matter. They all seem to stay pretty cool and quiet. The R9 290/290x cards are a little hotter than Nvidia normally it seems cause they pull more power but nothing too far.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

AMD has to do something .... To date nVidia has sold (53) 780 Ti's for every (60) of all R9 series combined (that's 6 cards). That's incredible as we are talking a card that has been until recently $700+ and the 6 cards go down to the $150 price point.

This is a great idea .... I can't understand for the life of me the appeal of CLCs on CPUs but they sell like crazy w/o actually accomplishing much if anything over their much cheaper air cooler cousins. This approach will draw a lot of those people over even if it offers no performance advantage so it seems to be without a downside.

OTOH, Asetek also makes the H100i which is about the only thing ya can put inside a PC case that is as noisy as the reference 290x, so it has to function quietly. I don't see it affecting performance that much as those w/ custom loops have learned with both the nVidia and AMD top of the line cards ... reductions in sound and noise are huge but performance, not so much.

The biggest question I think for the next generation's competition is how will nVidia and their 3rd party providers respond to AMD's R series strategy of aggressively clocking the reference cards "in the box". Will they reduce their OC overhead which allows their partners to distinguish themselves or take the same approach that AMD has and aggressively overclock the cards as much as they can while keeping returns for ones that can't quite maintain the clock down to an acceptable minimum.

The EVGA Hydrocopper has been a reasonable success despite its poor VRAM and VRM temps....the Asus Poseidon I think is a great idea allowing the user to start on air and then transition to water. Of the three approaches, 1) custom loop water only, 2) AIO GPU cooling or 3) Hybrid air / water, I personally like the 3rd of the 3 for mass market appeal. At this point, I still prefer adding a water block of my own choosing.

With the Swiftech H220-X providing expandable loops, the hybrid air water option provided a quick and easy upgrade to adding water cooling to the GPUS.

 

[falchard]

It's a trick, its really to cool AMDs next line of Desktop chips with a 300w TDP.

 

[jase240]

What's with all of the AMD vs. Nvidia comments here. Stop being biased about your favorite brand and post something positive.

I personally do think Nvidia has an upper edge on power efficiency and heat, but AMD does have some competitive pricing and better compute cards. I would opt for Nvidia myself, but I would not down AMD for having something that can appeal to someone else.

IMO, liquid cooling is a good way to go for high end GPUs. Even if for necessity, it is quieter and does improve overclocking. I think both companies should consider it.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

LOL then what is?

The stuff that counts ..... When cards fail due to overclocking it's generally from fried VRMs not fried GPUs.

Why do you think we even have non-reference cards with custom PCBs ? It is because when 3rd party providers want to distinguish themselves and provide better overclocking, the do so with a custom PCB, better power delivery and beefed up VRMs.

Watch the video review here .... xtremerigs provided test data on all the major water blocks and tests GPU temps (16:55), VRAM (21:50) temps and VRM temps (22:45). Despite coming in last place in GPU temps (hotter than leader by 1.5C) it is considered the best block because it's VRM is 30C below the worst and 14C below the closest competitor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDyYliSo-Hw

 

[cst1992]

Are there many people that do not buy an AMD card as it has worse performance/watt than a similar performing NVIDIA card?
For example the 760 is a 170 W card, but the 270x is 180W, and a little worse in actual game framerates than the 760.

 

[IInuyasha74]

Are there many people that do not buy an AMD card as it has worse performance/watt than a similar performing NVIDIA card?
For example the 760 is a 170 W card, but the 270x is 180W, and a little worse in actual game framerates than the 760.

I don't think it is so much the power difference as there are a huge number more Nvidia fanboys out there that spread as many rumors as possible about AMD being terrible while saying Nvidia is ungodly good in all areas. So people make poorly informed decisions about which card to get cause they are told "Its hot and louder than the other one and only runs half as fast as the Nvidia card." When in reality it doesn't run any hotter really or any louder and is a little slower maybe but at a lower price.
Not saying Nvidia is all hype and not a good GPU, obviously they are, but trying to fight against the ignorance the fanboys tell everyone is like trying to halt a religious crusade, unless you really step up in force to argue against the negative gossip you will just be swept away.

 

[bystander]

Are there many people that do not buy an AMD card as it has worse performance/watt than a similar performing NVIDIA card?
For example the 760 is a 170 W card, but the 270x is 180W, and a little worse in actual game framerates than the 760.

I don't think it is so much the power difference as there are a huge number more Nvidia fanboys out there that spread as many rumors as possible about AMD being terrible while saying Nvidia is ungodly good in all areas. So people make poorly informed decisions about which card to get cause they are told "Its hot and louder than the other one and only runs half as fast as the Nvidia card." When in reality it doesn't run any hotter really or any louder and is a little slower maybe but at a lower price.
Not saying Nvidia is all hype and not a good GPU, obviously they are, but trying to fight against the ignorance the fanboys tell everyone is like trying to halt a religious crusade, unless you really step up in force to argue against the negative gossip you will just be swept away.

Sadly, fanboys exist for both companies. Many times it is the result of bad experiences in the past that cause one to be a fan of one brand or the other.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

I don't doubt that there is some exaggeration but fact is fact and it was not so long ago that the AMD fanbois were singing the same tune about frying eggs on the nVidia 400 series. We see this stuff from both camps but it doesn't change anything. In the end, test data is test data and sales are sales . In the last 18 months, Intel has been the only "winner" increasing their market share from 13.57 to 18.92%. As of March 2013, AMD held 33.74% of the market, now it's 29.65% while nVidia has gone from 52.26 (155% of AMD) to 51.06 (172% of AMD)

The 780 draws 231 watts and produced 37 dbA / 80C
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_gtx_780_review,10.html

The 290x draws 286 watts and produced 43 dbA / 95C
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_review_benchmarks,10.html

That's 23% more power, 19% more heat and that has the 290x equivalent to two 780s in SLI
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/adding-decibel-d_63.html

Yes, we all know that these are the reference designs and we all know that both sides have made better coolers. It's also true that the 290x is faster than the 780 outta the box but the overclocked 780 tops the 290x overclocked at resolutions up to 2560
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djvZaHHU4I8 (8:40 mark)

It was also shown, and this is a lesser known fact, that when put under water, the 780's performance improves by about 9% and the 290 improves by 7%.

At least from my perspective, it's not about arguing that those differences don't exist or are somehow irrelevant ..... it's about what AMD has to do to make them go away. This water cooling approach is potentially a great way to accomplish that.

With the Swiftech H220-X providing AIO cooling to the CPU, it would be great for AMD to provide a cooler similar to the Asus Poseidon (780) which works under air or water cooling. An "add on" kit which supplied a few feet of tubing and the fittings necessary to connect the AMD card to the Swiftech AIO would be minimal cost .... Swiftech's new AIO is selling for $140 and would cost $230 if bought separately(40% discount). With 290x Poseidon, ya would need to add a $55 radiator, $20 worth if fittings and $10 worth of tubing ... with the same 40% discount, that's a $50 cost. That puts the cost of "real" water cooling both CPU and GPU under the $200 price point assuming you front mount the GPU cooler behind the two front case fans.

Looking at the Asetek alternative, we have Asetek coolers (2 x 120) at $100 cooling an 84 watt (135 say OC'd) Haswell. With a 286 watt 290x, that would equate to 4 x 120 but what we saw in the R9-295x2 was just one 120mm rad which resulted in the same 43 dbA noise levels .... not bad considering it's the heat output of 2 GPUs but not exactly breaking any ground. A crossfire build with two of these and a H100i ? That's 3 pumps, 3 separate systems. Doesn't seem like the right way to go.

That's why I think the hybrid air / water solution as done on the Poseidon makes the most sense. There's a $20 cost difference between the Asus 780 and the 780 Poseidon. That $20 would have minimal impact on card cost and put a severe dent in the temperature and noise differences between the platforms. The $50 add on kit is way way cheaper than the premium for a Hydrocopper or custom block + radiator and cheaper than putting a pump on each card.

On the other hand, after Asetek's patent troll action on Swiftech last year, I don't see the two companies being involved in any joint venture. OTOH, Asetek I expect needs to come back with an answer to the 220-x and if they do an open loop system of their own on CPUs, then this is a great way for both companies to make a splash.

 

[arb1]

sounds like NVidia will really have to pull out all the stops on their 980 if the 390X is some batshit insane liquid cooled thing

Not at all. AMD is the one doing the "batshit insane liquid cooled thing" because they no longer can compete with Nvidia on air and have to resort to extreme measures to keep their GPUs from melting.

tonga+ or whatever decent performance for less power and heat they appear to be working on low power but powerful GPUs

Well problem with you say "less power" i wouldn't call using 10 less watts then card before it really much improvement. Power difference between 780 and 980 is 75 watts. 250watts(gtx780) vs 175(gtx980)

 

[EasyLover]

Water cool design as reference one. Really it has got my attention!

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Well problem with you say "less power" i wouldn't call using 10 less watts then card before it really much improvement. Power difference between 780 and 980 is 75 watts. 250watts(gtx780) vs 175(gtx980)

Now ya can go from twin 780-s to twin 980s w/o changing PSU or radiators / fans

175 x 3 = 525
255 x 2 = 510

But the water cooled reference cards covered here, if hybrid air / water cooling design, would also make adding a card much easier on the water cooling system.....and cheaper. Of course you wouldn't get the same temps as a full cover EK WB but ya gotta ask .... do I really need 39C GPUs ?

 

[anubis44]

If AMD's card kick serious nVidia ass, and is sanely priced to boot, I don't give a damn if it used a closed loop water cooler. I've already got a closed loop water cooler on my FX-8350 chip running at 4.5GHz solid. And as far as power consumption goes, if it soundly thrashes nVidia's best, I don't care if it uses twice as much power, I'll probably buy it.

 

[4ktv]

If AMD's card kick serious nVidia ass, and is sanely priced to boot, I don't give a damn if it used a closed loop water cooler. I've already got a closed loop water cooler on my FX-8350 chip running at 4.5GHz solid. And as far as power consumption goes, if it soundly thrashes nVidia's best, I don't care if it uses twice as much power, I'll probably buy it.

It looks like it could be up to over %40 faster than the R9 290x, so yea this thing should more than soundly thrash the 980. Also I don't think AMD will make this a $599 like NVidia will.

I think this is shaping up to be the destroyer of all card. It will suck 300w with pride because it will take the GTX 980 to school and the cleaners.

 

[renz496]

If AMD's card kick serious nVidia ass, and is sanely priced to boot, I don't give a damn if it used a closed loop water cooler. I've already got a closed loop water cooler on my FX-8350 chip running at 4.5GHz solid. And as far as power consumption goes, if it soundly thrashes nVidia's best, I don't care if it uses twice as much power, I'll probably buy it.

It looks like it could be up to over %40 faster than the R9 290x, so yea this thing should more than soundly thrash the 980. Also I don't think AMD will make this a $599 like NVidia will.

I think this is shaping up to be the destroyer of all card. It will suck 300w with pride because it will take the GTX 980 to school and the cleaners.

wow

 

[Because0789]

If your existing PSU supports it great. If you have to buy a new one or upgrade to a larger one while building I feel like you would lose out on some of the Price/Performance advantage that it would have.

 

[M0j0jojo]

New ACX coolers from EVGA should be interesting http://www.tomshardware.com/news/evga-acx-nvidia-gpu-cooler,27693.html